Computer requrements and Upgrades?

[Nuclearranger]

In lue of segas new update on computer specs. req. for PSU.
Post here telling your computers Specs. If and how costly your upgrade is going to be.
People here might be able to push you in a direction of cheap computer parts and instruction on how to put them together.
I for one seem to find cheap parts at ebay all the time so someone could start there.

http://www.sega.com/games/game_temp.php?game=psu

[Nuclearranger]

GPU prices driveing you crasy? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_argh.gif
Heres some good news to people buying graphics cards

The Radeon X1900 XTX – the current flagship of ATI – will cost $549, the Radeon X1900 XT will drop to $479, while the Radeon X1800 XT products with 512MB or 256MB should cost around $299 (512MB version will cost higher than that). Additionally, ATI is expected to introduce Radeon X1800 XL 512MB for $299 and drop the price of the Radeon X1800 XL 256MB.
Sources also confirmed the release of the Radeon X1800 GTO for the price-range of $199 - $249 and said that the Radeon X1600 XT as well as the X1600 Pro will have recommended pricing of $149 and $109. I <3 Ati http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_kuddel.gif
Now GPU prices wont pwn you that baddly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_bondage.gif

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_quickdraw.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-01 21:21 ]</font>

[VioletSkye]

My specs will most likely be:
300 GB harddrive space with (2) 15,000 RPM SCSI drives in a RAID 0
AM2 Board with an Nvidia chipset (NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP) or ATI chipset (ATI Crossfire 3200)
4 GB of system RAM (which can be troublesome with XP 32 bit unless you know what you're doing and even then it can be a pain.)
Quad SLI with (2) 7950's or Crossfire with X1900 cards.
AMD Athlon FX62
Phase Change cooling for the CPU.
X-FI Elite soundcard
2 optical drives
1 media card reader drive
Totally modded out case which I will post pics of http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
PC Power and Cooling 1KW PSU
Not sure on the monitor setup yet (although there will be 2 or 3.)

Of course this is all theoretical and could easily change in the next month or two depending on what's available.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-01 23:36 ]</font>

[Kyuu]

On 2006-06-01 20:51, VioletSkye wrote:
My next rig (which will also be somewhat of a showpiece for customers) will be assembled in June (when the new AM2 boards are out.)

My specs will most likely be:
300 GB harddrive space with (2) 15,000 RPM SCSI drives in a RAID 0
AM2 Board with an Nvidia chipset (NVIDIA nForce4 SLI X16) or ATI chipset (ATI Crossfire 3200)
4 GB of system RAM (which can be troublesome with XP 32 bit unless you know what you're doing and even then it can be a pain.)
Quad SLI with (2) 7950's or Crossfire with X1900 cards.
AMD Athlon FX62
Phase Change cooling for the CPU.
X-FI Elite soundcard
2 optical drives
1 media card reader drive
Totally modded out case which I will post pics of http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
PC Power and Cooling 1KW PSU
Not sure on the monitor setup yet (although there will be 2 or 3.)

Of course this is all theoretical and could easily change in the next month or two depending on what's available.

Show off! This is a thread for those whose rigs need upgrades! *is really just jealous since he'll never be able to afford half the things listed*

[Nuclearranger]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/pclaptop.gif People that know things about upgradeing laptops are needed also.

[Nuclearranger]

Well you can use this for showing off too lol

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-01 20:54, Kyuu wrote:
Show off! This is a thread for those whose rigs need upgrades! *is really just jealous since he'll never be able to afford half the things listed*

The thing is, I use that PC as a showcase piece also and will probably end up selling it like I do most of the pcs I build for my personal use. I also have a Tax ID and Business License which allows me to write off the cost of parts on my taxes, which I've done for years. If I was building a pc for myself that I didn't plan on selling, I would never go that extreme. I'd go a step or two lower on most parts and overclock them. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Forgot to mention I will be including a PhysX card even if it is pointless atm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

BTW NuclearRanger, most laptops can't really be upgraded (at least not with any components that would make a difference in gaming.)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-01 21:01 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

Well might as well post mine too ^.^""

2.8GHZ Dual PD
1GB of ram (upgradeing>2or more)
ATI 600X(upgradeing> to X1900XTX or Dual Nvidia 7900s or one 7950 but the 7950 is dual anyway)
HD sound blaster up to 9.2 supported
5.1 surround sound n.n Dual layer
19" LCD flat
350w power supply (upgradeing for GPU ...)
2 disk drives 1 CD RW and one DVD
More than likely i missed something but ill edit it later.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_bash.gif

[Nuclearranger]

BTW NuclearRanger, most laptops can't really be upgraded (at least not with any components that would make a difference in gaming.)
Well in that case.... Where and how to buy /build a new one. IDK if you can realy build a laptop im sure you can but idk

Im off to bed but ill check back soon and see how things are going


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-01 21:11 ]</font>

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-01 21:08, NuclearRanger wrote:

BTW NuclearRanger, most laptops can't really be upgraded (at least not with any components that would make a difference in gaming.)
Well in that case.... Where and how to buy /build a new one. IDK if you can realy build a laptop im sure you can but idk

Im off to bed but ill check back soon and see how things are going


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-01 21:11 ]</font>

Yeah, you can. I've actually built a few and they tend to be a "little" more upgradable but not by a huge margin. Basically the size and form factor of the shell as well as the chipset determines what you can and can't use and is pretty restrictive. You also have to be VERY careful as the components are alot more fragile than they are for desktops.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-01 21:50 ]</font>

[BestRAmarEver]

As far as looking for computer parts, I highly recommend:

http://www.newegg.com
http://www.pricewatch.com

Newegg is an actual store and is probably the most popular online computer parts store for people building/upgrading/repairing their PCs.

Pricewatch is more of a "help you shop" type site. It lists products, where you can buy them, and how much they cost at each store.

[VioletSkye]

Don't forget:
ClubIT (http://clubit.com/) - Usually cheaper than newegg and usually has free shipping.
Tiger Direct (http://www.tigerdirect.com/)
Directron (http://www.directron.com/)
Xoxide (http://www.xoxide.com) - Excellent site for modding supplies.
Outlet PC (http://www.outletpc.com)
Geeks (http://www.geeks.com/)
Monarch (http://www.monarchcomputer.com)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-01 23:45 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

im getting a whole new pc just for psu.

- dell 24 inch 1200 rez widescreen lcd monitor
- asus m2n32sli dlx/wireless motherboard
- amd althon 64 x2 4200+ am2 cpu
- icon liquid cooling
- corsair 2gb twinx ddr2 6400c3 w/epp ram
- nvidia geforce 7950 1gb (2 cards in 1)
- western digital raptor 74gb 10,000 rpm hard drive
- 2x western digital caviar 500gb 7200 rpm hard drive
- sony 16x dvd-rom
- sony dru820a dual layer dvd+-/rw burner
- creative labs x-fi xtreme music sound card
- Logitech G15 2-Tone 104 Normal Keys USB Wired Standard Keyboard
- Razer Copperhead Chaos RZ01-050300-R1M1 Black 7 Buttons 1x Wheel Gold plated USB 2000 DPI Laser Engine Gaming Mouse
- Logitech THX Z-5300e 280 Watts RMS 5.1 Speaker

total price = $6000+

[Jozon]

2ghz Amd athlon 64 3200+ (3.2ghz compared to P4 equivalent)
1 GB ram
Radeon 9800 pro 128MB
AGP8X K8Triton Series Motherboard
80GB HD

thinking of building a new PC, but can't really build it alone, and the local store overcharges

[Brus]

dfi ut lanparty sli-dr
opty 146 oced 2.9ghz
2gb Corsair twin 1gb sticks pc 4800
geforce7900gt sc co (if the g80 comes out soon i'm gonna get that)
auzentech xplosion 7.1 dts soundcard
dell 2007fpw (fixed banding prob)

and probably most importantly... my xbox360 controller ahahah

[VioletSkye]

As an alternative to the dell 2007fpw, you might consider this:
ViewSonic VX2025WM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116381)

If you already own the dell, then nm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[PhotonCat]

Those requirments are very low. Meh.

[PhotonCat]

On 2006-06-01 23:26, Inazuma wrote:
im getting a whole new pc just for psu.

- dell 24 inch 1200 rez widescreen lcd monitor
- asus m2n32sli dlx/wireless motherboard
- amd althon 64 x2 4200+ am2 cpu
- icon liquid cooling
- corsair 2gb twinx ddr2 6400c3 w/epp ram
- nvidia geforce 7950 1gb (2 cards in 1)
- western digital raptor 74gb 10,000 rpm hard drive
- 2x western digital caviar 500gb 7200 rpm hard drive
- sony 16x dvd-rom
- sony dru820a dual layer dvd+-/rw burner
- creative labs x-fi xtreme music sound card
- Logitech G15 2-Tone 104 Normal Keys USB Wired Standard Keyboard
- Razer Copperhead Chaos RZ01-050300-R1M1 Black 7 Buttons 1x Wheel Gold plated USB 2000 DPI Laser Engine Gaming Mouse
- Logitech THX Z-5300e 280 Watts RMS 5.1 Speaker

total price = $6000+



Woah, what a way to throw money away. You know you can get that way cheaper by not shopping at Dell or Alienware...

Firstly you don't need 2 DVD drives... Just one burner will be enough.

Liquid cooling is a waste.

You don't need all those HDDs.

You don't need an expensive mouse and KB.

And lastly, the 7950 isn't worth the price either. Just get a 7900GTX or XT1900XTX.

If you need a pre-built site, try Cyberpower.

[PhotonCat]

On 2006-06-02 00:12, VioletSkye wrote:
As an alternative to the dell 2007fpw, you might consider this:
ViewSonic VX2025WM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116381)

If you already own the dell, then nm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif



Dell monitors are way better.

[Blitzkommando]

Until the DirectX 10 cards come out I'm sticking with the 7800GTX. It has a few problems that I don't care for, but nothing like the rather irksome problems that seem to keep popping up with the 7900 cards. For one thing, it just runs too darn hot for my liking. Anyway... hopefully once ATI moves to the 80nm process it will reduce the power consumption and heat output... Hopefully.

If I were to change out something right now... it would probably be the RAM. I love it, but 4 sticks is a pain to configure made even worse by my rather picky motherboard. I would keep the same capacity, 2GB, but just switch to something like Ballistix, Corsair, OCZ, or possibly Patriot again. Probably get the PC4000 2GB kit though to give me a bit more overhead although my processor doesn't seem to like going over 2.5GHz. But, hey, that's a lot better than the 7% overclock max I can get with my other machine. If I were given the option as to choose a processor or RAM for free... I'd do the processor. I'd get one of those wonderful Opteron 165 or Opteron 170 chips as they seem to peak out at around 2.6-2.8 on air. That's some really, really, nice overclock there considering that they are 1.8 and 2.0 GHz chips to begin with.

My current setup:
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ (110Watt version...) varies between 2.42-2.53 GHz depending on how well the burn in sessions work out.
RAM: 4x512MB Patriot DDR400 (absolutely refuse to work at SPD with 4 sticks, instant crashing in Windows, if it even boots even at stock speeds)
Harddrives two IDE one SATA: Primary is Maxtor 300GB IDE 133 with 16MB cache (I use it as it actually gets faster transfer rates than my SATA drive...) Secondary Hitachi 160GB IDE 100 with 8MB cache (music only and is 20GB left from full) Tertiary Western Digital 320GB SATA 150 (misc storage)
Motherboard: DFI LanParty UT CFX 3200-DR (awesome, awesome board really shows that ATI did a great job fixing their chipset over the 480)
Videocard: EVGA nVidia GeForce 7800GTX KO (Great card, even better warranty)
Sound: Soundblaster Audigy 2ZS Platinum with the front bezel (Everything I could ever need for sound)
Keyboard: ZBoard (Great keyboard, albeit a bit fragile)
Mouse: Logitech MX518 (wired > wireless I came from using the Mircosoft Intellimouse Explorer wireless, which was extremely comfortable but ate through batteries like a Humvee through fuel)
Monitor: Samsung 930B on DVI (I really want that ViewSonic VX2025WM... I've been watching that and... wow, such a nice monitor for that price)
Speakers: Altec Lansing 5.1 (nothing too fancy, but easier to configure than other 5.1 sets)
OS: Windows XP Professional with SP2
PSU: SilverStone ST56F 560Watts
Two optical drives, DVD-RW, CD-RW
Floppy is still there
Thermaltake Big Typhoon CPU cooler, massive but works very well and even cools the last two sticks of RAM.

I'm a bit surprised nobody here is going to be using a Conroe based system. No love for the new Intel?

EDIT: I'm not sure why you would pay $549 for the X1900XTX when you can get one for $469.99 ($439.99 after rebate)... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127205

And the X1900XT for $399.99 ($369.99 after rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102004

When you buy in a store you pay a huge premium on the price. And sometimes the premium can be over 100% more of the price for online. For example, my computer, had I purchased everything locally, would've been around $400 more than it ended up costing me. $400 was the difference between that processor and video card and the 3800+ with a 7800GT, well worth the upgrade over both.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Norvekh on 2006-06-02 01:45 ]</font>

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-02 01:20, PhotonCat wrote:


On 2006-06-02 00:12, VioletSkye wrote:
As an alternative to the dell 2007fpw, you might consider this:
ViewSonic VX2025WM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116381)

If you already own the dell, then nm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif



Dell monitors are way better.


no they aren't, and I doubt you would know the difference. And how about not triple-posting. There is an edit button for a reason.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-02 08:31 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

the dell monitor has 3 inches over what you posted. also it can be used as a tv. (it has component input)

you can even do picture-in-picture or picture-by-picture.
ive been using the dell 24 inch for months at work now. its very awesome.

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-02 08:38, Inazuma wrote:
the dell monitor has 3 inches over what you posted. also it can be used as a tv. (it has component input)

you can even do picture-in-picture or picture-by-picture.
ive been using the dell 24 inch for months at work now. its very awesome.


A. its also alot more expensive, and you can get wider screens also. My impression was that the model listed was a 20".
b. monitors with native tv support are NEVER as good quality-wise as a straight up monitor, therefore not recommended unless you aren't concerned with having the best quality you can get from your monitor.

[Jack]

Once Overclockers get my graphics card sorted, I will have this:

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3000+ @ 3800+ (2.4GHz)
Memory: 2GB Corsair XMS3200 @ PC3520 (220MHz)
Graphics: ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB
Sound: Creative Soundblaster Audigy 4
Motherboard: ASRock 939Dual-SATA2

[Kyuu]

On 2006-06-01 23:24, VioletSkye wrote:
Don't forget:
ClubIT (http://clubit.com/) - Usually cheaper than newegg and usually has free shipping.
Tiger Direct (http://www.tigerdirect.com/)
Directron (http://www.directron.com/)
Xoxide (http://www.xoxide.com) - Excellent site for modding supplies.
Outlet PC (http://www.outletpc.com)
Geeks (http://www.geeks.com/)
Monarch (http://www.monarchcomputer.com)

I also shop at ZipZoomFly (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/).

I haven't done a price comparison, so I dunno if it's the cheapest, but the prices have always seemed really good to me, and pretty much everything has free 2-day shipping.

[_glowstiq_]

Man, I feel bad. I'm still rocking the AGP cards.

[Jack]

On 2006-06-02 13:09, _glowstiq_ wrote:
Man, I feel bad. I'm still rocking the AGP cards.



There's still good cards being released on AGP. You can get a 7800 GS in AGP flavour. Also, if you like, the ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 motherboard has an AGP slot as well as a PCI-E slot, so you can keep your old card for a while longer while using a better processor.

[Brus]

On 2006-06-02 09:08, VioletSkye wrote:


On 2006-06-02 08:38, Inazuma wrote:
the dell monitor has 3 inches over what you posted. also it can be used as a tv. (it has component input)

you can even do picture-in-picture or picture-by-picture.
ive been using the dell 24 inch for months at work now. its very awesome.


A. its also alot more expensive, and you can get wider screens also. My impression was that the model listed was a 20".
b. monitors with native tv support are NEVER as good quality-wise as a straight up monitor, therefore not recommended unless you aren't concerned with having the best quality you can get from your monitor.




Not to be a thread hijacker, but its not really native TV support because if you run it at a 1:1 ratio its tiny on the monitor, but the monitor has an aspect adjuster which is pretty usefull (you can have 1:1, full screen, or biggest of origianl aspect.) I actually got the 2007FPW as a replacement for the 2005FPW because the 2005FPW was having bad backlight bleeding (a known defect with that model that dell refuses to admit), but I also got it for like $200 off about half a year ago. The 2007FPW has very good backlight uniformity and since the banding fix it I'd definitely recommend the monitor to people. You can get it for sale around $340 and the s-vid and comp outputs are pretty usefull if you dont have an AIW specially with the PIP and PBP. Now I just hope that PSU will have 1680x1050 out of the box! Thanks for the suggestion though, the viewsonic is a great deal.

edit: I meant s-vid and comp inputs not outputs, and its not component, the 20 inch only has composite.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brus on 2006-06-02 21:30 ]</font>

[Polly]

There's still good cards being released on AGP. You can get a 7800 GS in AGP flavour.

Yeah, the 7800GS is a great AGP card to consider. I didn't really feel it was time for a full upgrade to my system, cause I'm not a stickler for having to have the best of the best at any given time, so I just went with the 7800 and I'm completely happy with my gaming performance.

[Kayai]

Well all i know is that i can run it fairly decently so....yeah im set XP

[PhotonCat]

no they aren't, and I doubt you would know the difference. And how about not triple-posting. There is an edit button for a reason.

Um, Yeah.... *rolls eyes*

[Jack]

On 2006-06-02 01:34, Norvekh wrote:
EDIT: I'm not sure why you would pay $549 for the X1900XTX when you can get one for $469.99 ($439.99 after rebate)... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814127205


I'm not sure why anyone would pay an extra 30 quid/sixty-odd dollars for an X1900 XTX when the only difference between that and an XT is a slight overclock which the XT can reach.

[Fleece]

I'm on a NEC Multisync 1700v its 17" with a 40 ms response time, its slow I know but it was a bargain for 40 pounds. That and my other monitor was having Gauss issues.

OH my spec yeah its:

Ideq Biostar 330p case http://www.pcinpact.com/images/bd/news/18165_mini.jpg
Custom built NForce 4 motherboard

AMD 3700 San Diego Core @ 2.2GHZ
1 GB Corsair XMS
GeCube X1600 XT

Heh I'm still on a 16x CD writer though.....damned budgets.

Also : PhotonCat Don't argue with VioletSkye you will lose.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fleece on 2006-06-02 18:35 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

YES the XT can reach the XTX es speed BUT the XTX can overclock beond itself winning over the XT

[RedX]

Processor - AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 4200+, 2.2GHz, 512KB+512KB L2 Cache

Hard drive - 250GB 7200 rpm Serial ATA hard drive

CD/DVD drive - Double Layer 16X DVD±R/RW drive with CD writer capabilities and LightScribe Technology Includes 1 blank LightScribe 52x CDR disc

Memory - 2.0GB PC2-4200 DDR2 SDRAM memory (2x1GB)

Graphics card - Integrated GeForce 6150LE Graphics with up to 256MB shared video memory


Besides the Graphics card it iwll do i think. and i haven't bought it yet so i can't say anything else about it.

[VioletSkye]

Well, it has a core clock of 425MHz and falls somewhere between the 6100 and 6150 IGP chipsets. Its AM2 only, so you will at least get the benefit of using DDR2 system memory and it supports Nvidia PureVideo. It's alot better than Intel's GMA (Graphics Media Accelerator) 950, which in turn is alot better than their "Extreme Graphics 2" chipset http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[ShinMaruku]

You guys are spec whores and none of you consider getting an HD-DVD Burniner or a blu-ray burner... <_<
Next set up I get that shall be in mine. XD

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-03 10:26, ShinMaruku wrote:
You guys are spec whores and none of you consider getting an HD-DVD Burniner or a blu-ray burner... <_<
Next set up I get that shall be in mine. XD


Probably most people won't waste the money on one right away since it really isn't necessary and since you can always add one on later http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ShinMaruku]

I buy in buclk and I save, Thus I update my stuff far less and save.

[VioletSkye]

A. Buying HD DVD or Blu-Ray burners in bulk is dumb as they will go down in price over time (not to mention I doubt you have one and I seriously doubt you'll be buying them in bulk at $1000 a pop.)
B. I don't see too many people shelling out around $1000 for a blu-ray burner right now.

Think about it for a minute, in order to get even a descent discount, you'd most likely need to buy at least 10 or more and even then you may be looking at 20-25% discount max. Do you mean to tell me that you shelled out $5000+ for a bunch of blu-ray burners that I doubt you will sell most people on atm. Please enlighten me as to what company you bought from and what was your discount? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-03 10:58 ]</font>

[ShinMaruku]

I mean I buy PC parts in bulk not brunrers in bulck. Certain pakages I cna get a slight discount.
I'd go grab one for my own purposes and just to saee how far that thign can go. Still not buying one till mid next year so I have no worries. XD

[VioletSkye]

All I can say is that having worked in the IT departments for two companies where we had accounts with places like CDW, Chiptek, TigerDirect etc. I can tell you that the discount is very "slight" and not a huge savings. In the time I was at one company there were two separate times when we ordered around 100 IBM Thinkpads at a time for salespeople and the savings wasn't that great. We also custom built most desktop machines and would order components for up to 200 complete systems at a time and again the "discount" wasn't anything to write home about, so unless you are a retailer, you aren't really going to save much even if you buy in bulk.

[Jack]

On 2006-06-03 10:26, ShinMaruku wrote:
You guys are spec whores and none of you consider getting an HD-DVD Burniner or a blu-ray burner... <_<
Next set up I get that shall be in mine. XD



I'm waiting to see what format becomes dominant. I'm betting on HD-DVD.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-06-03 15:30, Jack wrote:

I'm waiting to see what format becomes dominant. I'm betting on HD-DVD.

I agree. I don't forsee Blu-ray becoming popular ever (same way Sony's propietary discs for the PSP - whatever the heck they're called, UMD? - are pretty much headed for the crap chute), and I don't see either format getting widely distributed for at least another couple of years. Good old-fashioned dual-layer DVD's are much, much cheaper to burn, and can still hold more than enough information for even power users.

[Fleece]

LMAO HD DVD vs Blue Ray im sitting this out till its over and there only on contender left.

Dont bring up sony having a bigger fan base. Remember the BetaMax cassette recorder? that was sony's.

VHS FTW!!!!!!111!!!!!one!!!!!!!!!

[Kyuu]

To be fair, BetaMax really was a better format. Just didn't catch on.

[Inazuma]

from what ive read, the blu-ray really is better. more storage space = better.

[Kyuu]

True, but then it's more about the price/performance ratio. Are you really getting more bang for your buck with the Blu-ray, considering how much more expensive it is?

Note, I don't actually know the answer to that question.

[VioletSkye]

Porn industry may be decider in Blu-ray, HD-DVD battle (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/05/02/pornhd/index.php) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ShinMaruku]

Blu-ray got insane support, so it shall do fine.
blu-ray got more space though but many want it to fail for it's a Sony thing.. XD (Baka...)

[Inazuma]

ooh, theres gonna be lots of hi def porn soon. thats very exciting.

btw, i dont buy movies on dvd b/c i have a pc w/ the internet. blu-ray wont be any different. it will just mean longer download times http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[ShinMaruku]

25 gig pron... I'm gonna OD on that.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-06-03 20:48, VioletSkye wrote:
Porn industry may be decider in Blu-ray, HD-DVD battle (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/05/02/pornhd/index.php) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Bah, I agree with the guy at the end of that interview. Porn's influence in the VHS/BetaMax "war" is definitely overstated. As he said, it was mainly the fact that BetaMax was proprietary, owned by Sony, whereas VHS was open. And isn't the same thing happening now? Blu-ray is proprietary and owned exclusively by Sony, is it not? o_0

[Saner]

ya but what good is Blu-ray when half of the PC population don't even own a DVD-drive and the other half does? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

more space is fine but like DVD not everyone even takes advantage of all the storage space.

the majority of games can fit in a single DVD. Blue-Ray is overdoing it.

[Fleece]

Most people won't want to put trust in Blue Ray anyway, because most know DVD and will probably go with HD-DVD

[Saffran]

|Probably most people won't waste the money on one right away
|since it really isn't necessary and since you can always add one on later

Says someone who plans on wasting money on 4GB Ram?
Yeah, sure.

My PC is an old rug but it's good enough, the game will run.

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-04 08:20, Saffran wrote:
|Probably most people won't waste the money on one right away
|since it really isn't necessary and since you can always add one on later

Says someone who plans on wasting money on 4GB Ram?
Yeah, sure.

My PC is an old rug but it's good enough, the game will run.


Gee, lets see what parts of my post you seemed to have overlooked http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

"The thing is, I use that PC as a showcase piece also and will probably end up selling it like I do most of the pcs I build for my personal use. I also have a Tax ID and Business License which allows me to write off the cost of parts on my taxes, which I've done for years. If I was building a pc for myself that I didn't plan on selling, I would never go that extreme. I'd go a step or two lower on most parts and overclock them."

Now let's look at the cost of 4GB of RAM (which CAN have a significant effect on performance for software that can utilize it) vs. the cost of a Blu-Ray burner.

Patriot Signature 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 667 - $150.99. If we double that we end up with $301.98

Blu-Ray Burner:
Panasonic Blu-ray SW-5582 - $1050.00
PIONEER BDR-101A Blu-ray - $968.00

The Blu-Ray Burners are more than 3 times the cost of 4GB of RAM and the RAM is an easier sell to someone and if they don't want 4GB, I can remove 2 sticks and use it for another build. So ummmmm, how is it wasting money????? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Jack]

On 2006-06-03 20:57, Inazuma wrote:
ooh, theres gonna be lots of hi def porn soon. thats very exciting.


It really isn't. The porn industry isn't too keen on HDTV because the sharper picture shows up more imperfections. The compression on DVDs is like a technological equivalent of putting vaseline on a camera lens.

Anyway, PSU!

[ShinMaruku]

On 2006-06-03 23:22, Saner wrote:
ya but what good is Blu-ray when half of the PC population don't even own a DVD-drive and the other half does? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

more space is fine but like DVD not everyone even takes advantage of all the storage space.

the majority of games can fit in a single DVD. Blue-Ray is overdoing it.


There is noever overdoing stuff when delaing with space, you get more space you uses mroe space.
and to point that both will be needed for next gen stuff, Let's do a simple experiment, take MSpaint, and just fill the thing with one color and save it at starndard resolution, then save it, it's 1.25 megabytes, then take that picture and double the resolution to and the size goes up to 11 megabytes, we are gonna need more space regardless, but to call having more space overdoing it is calling for stagnation.

[Kranz013]

Do you think an ATI radeon xpress 200 would work? I have some doubts...

[VioletSkye]

xpress 200 has integrated Radeon X300 quality 3D graphics with 4 pixel pipelines and 2 vertex shaders. It has 64-bit or 128-bit memory interface supporting 64MB, 128MB, or 256MB DDR1 memory configurations. You may or may not be able to change that depending on whether or not your BIOS is locked. Many off the shelf systems (especially for laptops) from companies like Dell and Gateway won't allow you to change the amount of video memory in BIOS. So if you're locked at 64MB of video RAM, chances are its not going to be a great playing experience. If you're at 128MB or 256MB and you have sufficient system memory (512MB or higher) and a descent speed processor then it may play ok. Honestly, we won't really know until the final version is shipped.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-04 13:09 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

Wow alot of posts here in two days.
Now someone tell me What graphics card to buy .... I here so many arguements for both sides.... I am looking at the ATI X1900XTX, Nvidia 7900, or the Dual Nvidia 7900 (7950)
look at price ext. Ati is droping prices but Nvidia seems to (with the 7950) be more powerfull.

[Saffran]

I DID see the bold parts, but you still ARE planning on building that system http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

>If we double that we end up with $301.98

What the?? The cheapest RAM over here costs about double that... and it's a no-name (no-quality...) one to boot. (pun wasn't intended)

[Jack]

If it's just for PSU, you're not going to see any difference. I think if PSU's anything like Blue Burst, a 6800 Ultra or an X800 XT would be the most you'd need.

[Nuclearranger]

No no its for NEXT gen games eather one of those runs PSU at full

[Blitzkommando]

On 2006-06-04 13:24, NuclearRanger wrote:
Wow alot of posts here in two days.
Now someone tell me What graphics card to buy .... I here so many arguements for both sides.... I am looking at the ATI X1900XTX, Nvidia 7900, or the Dual Nvidia 7900 (7950)
look at price ext. Ati is droping prices but Nvidia seems to (with the 7950) be more powerfull.


ATI simply kicks the crap out of nVidia right now quality-wise. After seeing comparisons of ATI's High Quality (Angle Independent) Anisotropic Filtering in action I can say that it puts a world of hurt on my 7800GTX, which is by no means a slouch card. The ATI cards also are able to enable higher levels of filtering and anti-alias with less performance loss in most games. When buying a card that expensive that becomes a very important factor. Also, consider that the X1900XT (averages 1-5% loss at worst compared to XTX) is able to be found on sale regularly for $370. That's a very good deal considering the power of that card.

Personally, the 7950 comes off as simply a marketing toy. It requires a 16X board to run in SLI. It runs at lower clocks and still heats up pretty high. Performance-wise, it's not up to SLI of the 7900GTX, but higher than a single 7900GTX. Putting in two, while best performancewise, is still far to expensive for the rather small gains it gives. A marketing toy at best.

Right now, I wouldn't suggest nVidia. Had I been asked in October I would've said the same about ATI. But, the 1900 series is an absolutely awesome series, just like the 7800 series was. But, the performance of the 7900 series isn't much over the 7800 (my 7800GTX can actually outperform a 7900GT) and is overpriced for what you get in picture quality. There are three areas that ATI really shines right now: Pixel shader units, anisotropic filtering (HQ AF is absolutely stunning to see with 16 levels), and Anti-Alias with HDR (nVidia doesn't have that right now).

Overall, out of all the cards on the market, the one for the high end that gives the best performance for the cost is undoubtedly the X1900XT. Under it in factor of price and performance is probably the 7900GT (Or even the X1800 XT).

[PhotonCat]

Also : PhotonCat Don't argue with VioletSkye you will lose.


Oh, I'm sorry I was arguing with your God.

[Kyuu]

On 2006-06-04 18:30, PhotonCat wrote:

Oh, I'm sorry I was arguing with your God.

Don't be so bitter. VioletSkye is extraordinarily knowledgable about computer hardware, and is very good at what he does (building custom rigs). The simple observation was made that trying to argue with him about this subject had a very high probability of you, well, losing.

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-04 19:48, Kyuu wrote:


On 2006-06-04 18:30, PhotonCat wrote:

Oh, I'm sorry I was arguing with your God.

Don't be so bitter. VioletSkye is extraordinarily knowledgable about computer hardware, and is very good at what he does (building custom rigs). The simple observation was made that trying to argue with him about this subject had a very high probability of you, well, losing.


Thanks for the nice compliment http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
There are quite a few extremely knowledgable people at PSOW which is awesome. Browse other game forums for a bit and you'll see some horrid advice and complete misinformation being passed off as knowledge. That can cost someone to buy the wrong/incompatible part/s and then having to mess with returns and restocking fees (best case scenario) or worse yet suggesting they buy something that not only won't work properly but could damage their system (worst case scenario.) For instance many Dell models use a proprietary power supply and even though an ATX PSU will fit, the pinset is different and can fry the motherboard.

For a fan site, PSOW does an excellent job of dealing with hardware (and software) questions. Sometimes I may come off as being too opinionated and for that I apologize http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Jack]

On 2006-06-04 15:16, NuclearRanger wrote:
No no its for NEXT gen games eather one of those runs PSU at full


Well, the next generation for PCs will be DirectX 10. However, DirectX 10 graphics cards won't be out for a while. An X1800 or 7800 and anything above there will easily last for a long time though.

[VioletSkye]

Actually DirectX 10 cards should be available soon with the Geforce 8 series which is rumored to make a debut in July. The memory interface is said to be GDDR4 memory, along with support for Microsoft DirectX 10, and Shader Model 4.0 with the process technology likely to be 80nm.

ATI on the other hand is slated to release their next generation R600 sometime towards the end of the year (November/December) and will be 65nm.

Quote in regards to G80:
Quad SLI itself can be implemented on a single card with two chips solution because it will carry the first dual core GPU ever with the support of DirectX10 and Shader Model 4.0. The development of G80 is also mentioned as being running very intensive since NVIDIA's acquisition over ULi.

Leaked Specs for the R600 (looks tasty indeed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif )
65nm
64 Shader pipelines (Vec4+Scalar)
32 TMU's
32 ROPs
128 Shader Operations per Cycle
800MHz Core
102.4 billion shader ops/sec
512GFLOPs for the shaders
2 Billion triangles/sec
25.6 Gpixels/Gtexels/sec
256-bit 512MB 1.8GHz GDDR4 Memory
57.6 GB/sec Bandwidth (at 1.8GHz)
WGF2.0 Unified Shader

Heh, I'm VERY, VERY excited to try out both series of cards. Things are heating up nicely between the Green and Red teams http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-05 11:05 ]</font>

[Brus]

I just read that Nvidia put out a lame excuse and that the 7950 will NOT be able to run quad SLI due to "certain compelxities." I smell BS from nvidia's side but either way that sucks.

[Nuclearranger]

[Quote]
Leaked Specs for the R600 (looks tasty indeed )
65nm
64 Shader pipelines (Vec4+Scalar)
32 TMU's
32 ROPs
128 Shader Operations per Cycle
800MHz Core
102.4 billion shader ops/sec
512GFLOPs for the shaders
2 Billion triangles/sec
25.6 Gpixels/Gtexels/sec
256-bit 512MB 1.8GHz GDDR4 Memory
57.6 GB/sec Bandwidth (at 1.8GHz)
WGF2.0 Unified Shader
[Quote/]


Holy crap that makes the 1900XTX look... bad lol
*wonders what a card like this will cost a man*
One more question with a 65nm core will this thing take up less power than other cards?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-05 15:27 ]</font>

[VioletSkye]

Hopefully less power and less heat http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



On 2006-06-05 14:56, Brus wrote:
I just read that Nvidia put out a lame excuse and that the 7950 will NOT be able to run quad SLI due to "certain compelxities." I smell BS from nvidia's side but either way that sucks.


Wouldn't surprise me lol. Anyway, I'll definitely wait for the G80's now.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-05 17:05 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

g8s.... well ima ati fan

[Jack]

I'm a complete ATI fanboy, not least because the GeForce 2 I had years ago was a bag o' shite.

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-05 17:37, NuclearRanger wrote:
g8s.... well ima ati fan


I'll be using them both (G80s and R600s) but since the G80 cards come out first, that's what I'll be trying out first http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-05 17:54 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

So now the real question whos going to win out? Rseries or G8?

[kassy]

Cool, ATI's specs look great, it's good to see healthy competition from these two companies, seems to be win win for us, the consumer.

[Nuclearranger]

One more question with a 65nm core will this thing take up less power than other cards?

did this get answerd?

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-05 19:51, NuclearRanger wrote:
One more question with a 65nm core will this thing take up less power than other cards?

did this get answerd?


I commented on it above is all. All I can do is speculate. It could very well be less power hungry than ATI's current architecture and generate less heat, but I haven't seen anything confirming that yet.

[Nuclearranger]

Great thanks allthough Violet i still might get the X1900XTX seening as how its cheap now... so another question will PSU run on vista? your mood reminded me of that "Windows Vista Beta 2 rocks!"

[VioletSkye]

I think it's a safe bet that it will run fine in Vista. Vista should be a gamers dream http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
On a side note, Vista Beta 2 runs amazingly well. I've had it running continously for almost 2 weeks now with no real hiccups. It still doesn't like some programs and there were a few apps I had to install twice to get them to work properly, but overall I haven't had too many issues. Quicktime doesn't seem to work properly but Quicktime Alternative does. iTunes supposedly has issues also but I haven't tried it. HP has not done a good job of updating drivers for Vista and I still can't get the drivers installed, so I have to use Printer Sharing through my network in order to print anything out on my Vista machine. But Direct3D 10 (or DirectX 10) looks promising indeed (introducing Shader Model 4, now with Geometry Shader) and MS is apparently working on a Physics API presumably called DirectPhyics.

[Nuclearranger]

For D10 are we going to need new cards?

[VioletSkye]

To take advantage of DX10 features, yes you will need a DX10 compliant card.

Taken from the Inquirer:

The DirectX 10 API will have completely new and faster dynamic link libraries (DLLs) and is supposed to run much faster. The company decided to cut the backward compatibility with DirectX 9, 8, 7 and lower in this API but there will be a way to use games programmed for those APIs. Microsoft will enable support for DX 9 or lower games through a software layer, meaning it might run slower.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-06 13:58 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

Violet

quicktime and itunes dont work eh? that sounds very similar to a problem i had on windows 64 bit back in april. all of a sudden, those 2 programs (in addition to macromedia flash 8 pro) would not run. after much trouble, i found the cause of it.

it was one of the windows updates. dated 04-11-06. i forgot the KB number but im sure of that date. i went into add/remove programs, chose to show all updates and simply unistalled that single update. rebooted the pc, and everything worked fine.

[VioletSkye]

Cool, glad you got it figured out http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Vista no longer has Add/Remove Programs, it has something similar though simply called Programs (see images below)

Anyway, there have been no updates for Vista Beta 2 and those programs have had issues throughout all the Vista builds. Some programs simply won't work atm. That will change though once Vista nears its launch http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

http://psofiles3.home.bresnan.net/controlpanel.jpg
http://psofiles3.home.bresnan.net/programs.jpg
http://psofiles3.home.bresnan.net/installedprograms.jpg

[Jack]

On 2006-06-06 13:55, VioletSkye wrote:
To take advantage of DX10 features, yes you will need a DX10 compliant card.

Taken from the Inquirer:

The DirectX 10 API will have completely new and faster dynamic link libraries (DLLs) and is supposed to run much faster. The company decided to cut the backward compatibility with DirectX 9, 8, 7 and lower in this API but there will be a way to use games programmed for those APIs. Microsoft will enable support for DX 9 or lower games through a software layer, meaning it might run slower.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-06 13:58 ]</font>


I remember reading that Windows Vista will feature a version of DirectX 9 called 9.0L. I hope they don't use an emulator or anything like that for DirectX 9 and below games. It'd be well shit if they run badly on Vista.

[VioletSkye]

Yeah I remember that, I believe that DX 9.0L is the software layer mentioned in the article (hence the L for layer.) I've seen mention of it being available to XP users also with SM4.0 support, but I don't have anything official to back that up.

[Blitzkommando]

I hope the recently released data about the cards using as much as 300 Watts a piece turns out false. 300 Watts is way, way too much especially if they are switching to 80nm and 65nm respectively. But, I do know AnandTech knows what they are talking about so it seems pretty possible coming from a source like them.

No question I am excited about the ATI R600. No question at all. HDCP, 65nm, and GDDR4 all make me weak in the knees, but up to 300 Watts of power is like a big kick in the groin. It's a bit insulting really when AMD and Intel both are creating record low wattage numbers for processors and the graphics companies are reaching record highs.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2770

That's the article by the way.

[VioletSkye]

Great article http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Another one listed on that page is great also:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2771

I honestly am thrilled to see Intel coming back so strong. The Intel Core Extreme X6800 mopping the floor with the FX62 in gaming (of course this was only tested in 1024x768 w/ no AA/AF.) The article also mentions the overclockability of the Conroe http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Quote:
The absolute highest we've seen on air is 3.8GHz from a Core 2 Extreme X6800 processor.
Excellent considering the default is 2.93GHz



I forgot to mention in the DX10 thread about DX9 games posibbly running slower in Vista. I will install Doom 3 and Quake 4 on my Vista machine and do benchmarks, then I'll swap out that harddrive with my XP Pro harddrive and run the benchmarks again to see if there is any difference in Framerates.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-06 19:27 ]</font>

[Blitzkommando]

Competition is a beautiful thing. What will make it interesting is near the end of this year to early next year when AMD also makes the switch to 65nm with revision G. Might end up having to update my computer a year ahead of schedule if it continues at this rate.

[Nuclearranger]

So do you think the R600 will be directX 10?

[Blitzkommando]

On 2006-06-06 20:00, NuclearRanger wrote:
So do you think the R600 will be directX 10?


If it isn't then ATI would be going against what they have already said and would be making the worst decision of 2006-2007.

[Nuclearranger]

So it is >.< thanks !! ^.^"" thats nice to know i might wait for that beast also.. COULD that card be run on an XP system with Direct9c?

[VioletSkye]

Wow, don't try to use the default Windows WDDM drivers for your Nvidia card when gaming lol.

This is a machine I use for testing and it's not real fast. I'm using a 6800GT AGP card with 1 gig of RDRAM (remember that lol) and a 2.5GHz Intel P4.

Framerates for Doom 3: (1024x768 : Medium Settings)
Vista 6800GT WDDM Drivers - 3.5 FPS (OUCH!!! LOL)
Nvidia Vista Beta 2 Drivers - 36.8 FPS



I haven't tested it on the other harddrive with XP yet but I will and I'll post fuller set of stats then including Quake 4.

BTW If you have an Nvidia card, download the Beta 2 drivers from Nvidia.com and when you go to install those drivers DO NOT uninstall the default WDDM drivers. If you do, you will get an error that says that you don't have any compatible drivers for your hardware and setup will close. If you accidently do unistall them, simply restart and let Vista reinstall that default driver, then run the new driver setup from Nvidia.


Sorry NuclearRanger I forgot to answer your question.
Yes the R600 will support DX9, in fact here is a quote taken from an article at Xbits:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20060525104243.html

“The R600 will be [absolutely] the fastest DirectX 9 chip that we had ever built,” said Richard Huddy, the head of ATI Technologies’ software developers relations department, at a press conference in London, UK.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-06 21:42 ]</font>

[Kyuu]

This is a machine I use for testing and it's not real fast. I'm using a 6800GT AGP card with 1 gig of RDRAM (remember that lol) and a 2.5GHz Intel P4.-_- You like, said my system specs along with the phrase "not real fast." Granted it's 1gig of dual-channel DDR, and an Athlon 3200+, but still. Don't insult my poor computer! *sniffles*

[VioletSkye]

your 3200+ and RAM easily outperforms my setup so no worries http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Pure-chan]

Hey everyone, I was hoping to get some input on a PC that I'm thinking about buying. Here are the specs as they sit right now:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual-core processor 4200+ (2 x 512KB L2 cache)
2 GB - PC3200 DDR
320GB hard drive/2MB cache (7200 rpm)
NVIDIA GeForce 6100 graphics with PCI Express x16 expansion slot

I'd like to get people's takes on the specs, as well as input on a monitor and good video card that's affordable. (I'm waiting for DX10 and Vista before I get a super-nice card)

For the time being I'm considering an XFX GeForce 7600 GT XXX (256MB GDDR3) and a either a Viewsonic VA1912wb 19" LCD Monitor or possibly a HannsG HW191D 19" LCD. Any feedback?

BTW hi VioletSkye, it's nice to see another Seattleite pso-er! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[VioletSkye]

Welcome to PSOW!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

The specs look great. Do you mind if I ask where you are thinking of buying it from and how much it costs (maybe one of us here can find a better deal for you.) The Geforce 6100 will run PSU but you can do alot better.

Price/performance-wise I still think the 7600GS is the way to go. Some disagree and would recommend say an ATI X1600 (which is a descent card) and yes the X1600 has more pixel pipelines and has support for HDR with AA enabled and uses angle-independent anisotropic filtering meaning your game may look prettier depending on the games that support that, but honestly the 7600GS has significantly better framerates at lower resolutions (1024x768) without everything set to max and still generally performs as well if not slightly better on games with higher resolutions (1600x1200) with more eye candy turned on (AA, AF etc.) And once you hit those settings, your framerates will take a dive anyway, so its not what I would deem acceptable play. I still say for your lower to low-mid range needs the 7600GS is a better buy for the settings you would want to play with (which are somewhere in the middle) for higher end games. So I guess what I'm saying is that some games may not look as pretty, but they will probably run smoother with descent (but not maxed) settings. Not to mention the 7600GS is a good overclocker.

Although if you don't mind spending a little more you could go with an X1800GTO


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-07 13:58 ]</font>

[Pure-chan]

Well, the original price on the PC was $899 over at the Best Buy @ SouthCenter, but I'm getting it for $499 (...I saved up a LOT gift cards.) XD I'm glad the specs look ok- I'm new to PC gaming, but I've been trying to do my homework. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

As far as the Geforce 6100 is concerned, that's out as soon as I get my new card... Right now here's what it looks like I'm doing:

PC - $499 + maybe extended warranty depending on the length of the manufacturer's warranty.

Monitor - ViewSonic VA1912wb - $219.99 w/$50 rebate ($169.99 ) *or* Hanns·G HW191D - $218.99

Video Card - XFX GeForce 7600 GT XXX - $189.99 (it comes with GRAW, too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif)

I'm open to suggestions all around, I just want to keep the price down on the card since I'll be getting a new one with Vista/DX10 around the corner. Both of the LCD's I'm considering are 19" widescreens. This is brand new to me. I was wondering, how well do games handle a 1440 x 900 native resolution? Also, does anyone have experience with either of these monitors? I can't make heads or tails of "xxx-nit brightness" or "pixel pitch" ._.


Oh, one more thing! The power supply on this pc is under 300 watts. Is this something I need to worry about with this setup? I've been looking around for info on how much wattage different cards take up, but I'm not getting anything definitive.

Thanks! :3


edit: I just found a X1800GTO for 185.99 on Newegg.com. Is this a better card than the one listed above?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-06-07 14:34 ]</font>

[Jack]

You're really going to want to upgrade that power supply. I've just fitted a 580W power supply in my PC, as my 430W one wouldn't even turn on with the X1900 XT connected to it. Although your 7600 wouldn't be as much of a juice drainer, you'll still want a decent one. Seasonic do good power supplies - the S12 500W should do the job. I hear Antec do good ones as well.

[Nuclearranger]

*needs to upgrade power badly i have 350W and im looking at getting 1KW

[Nuclearranger]

lol by the way when PSU JP comes out Someone has to run it on vista and give us a report.

[VioletSkye]

A good 500W PSU (power supply unit) will work just fine. The X1800GTO would be a great card http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
A really nice PSU for the price is the:
Rosewill ATX12V 500W Aluminum Power Supply - $47.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817182002) It has a 20+4 main connector so it will accomodate either motherboard pinset. The cables are all sleeved which is nice and it runs great (I've used this in a few builds I've done.)

The Viewsonic monitor is excellent and the rebate is an even better deal. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

One thing to add is that the 7600GT is a smaller card, uses less power and is quieter and provides roughly the same performance, but all things considered, I would probably opt for the X1800GTO.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-07 15:16 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

About that PSU Did you say it would run on my dell Without an addapter?

[Pure-chan]

Thank you VioletSkye & Jack! I'm going to try and get my parts ordered tonight http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif After they get here, I'll go pick up the tower and start counting down the days until PSU http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Jack]

My new PSU has sleeved cables too. I bought a Hiper HPU-4K580-MK (http://www.planetamd64.com/index.php?showtopic=9102). Sleeved cables for the win - tidiness is always good.



On 2006-06-07 15:25, NuclearRanger wrote:
About that PSU Did you say it would run on my dell Without an addapter?



I'm almost 100% certain. I've never seen the inside of any Dell machines, but I know some Dell motherboards don't have things like AGP slots. I'd be very surprised if they had specialised connectors for PSUs though, so you're probably safe.

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-07 16:46, Jack wrote:
My new PSU has sleeved cables too. I bought a Hiper HPU-4K580-MK (http://www.planetamd64.com/index.php?showtopic=9102). Sleeved cables for the win - tidiness is always good.



On 2006-06-07 15:25, NuclearRanger wrote:
About that PSU Did you say it would run on my dell Without an addapter?



I'm almost 100% certain. I've never seen the inside of any Dell machines, but I know some Dell motherboards don't have things like AGP slots. I'd be very surprised if they had specialised connectors for PSUs though, so you're probably safe.


Whoa!!! Actually Dell has MANY models that will NOT take a standard ATX PSU and in fact those can very easily fry the motherboard. Nuclear's Dell IIRC is a 9100 which I believe does need an adapter. Even though a standard ATX psu will "fit" the pinset is very different. For more info on that see this article:
Dell to ATX Power Supply Converter. (http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=dellconverter)

Also, even if the pinset is the same as a standard ATX, often times the actual size of the psu is different (usually much smaller.)



On 2006-06-07 15:25, NuclearRanger wrote:
About that PSU Did you say it would run on my dell Without an addapter?


Check the picture in the article I mentioned and see if it has that other connector on the motherboard. if it does then you need the adapter for it.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-07 17:37 ]</font>

[Jack]

Christ. I didn't think they'd even do that. Seems like Dell really don't like people to upgrade their machines.

[VioletSkye]

Heh, thats because they want you buying their totally over-priced components http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

BTW, nice PSU you linked to Jack. I really like modulars and that looks like a great mid-level mod psu http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-07 17:47 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

Well i know they do lol propretory or something Violet told me to check it out and it does use it so most power supplys require an addpter i do beleve

[Nuclearranger]

Lol people with a dell dont loose all hope yet.... those upgrading there powersupply heres an addapter that lets you use a standard power supply in your Dell PC!
http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=dellconverter
REPOST of a great power supply for cheap and it looks pimped!!!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817182002
Any of you getting HIGH powerd GPUs you might need an addapter for your LCD or lower moniter for those HD ports
http://www.cablestogo.com/product_list.asp?cat%5Fid=2801&sortType=length&sortDir=ASC&engine=adwords!654&keyword=%28dvi+to+hd15+adapter%29
Allright there it is.!!

[Nuclearranger]

lol this started for me as a one thing upgrade and as i learned more about hardware it became an obsestion now im going all out lol ill have one of the most power full Dell computers around o.o.... note. I did say dell and not computer in general.

Also for those of us who would think surround sound would be nice but doubt they could afford it. I think you will be very very supprised. Many 5.1 systems go for 35$ and up... You should make sure the back of your computer has a BLACK AND YELLOW speaker slot in addition to the green one. IF you dont you can buy sound cards dirt cheap since it takes no power to run sound...
http://www.soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=206&product=10315
Just look threw all of Sound Blasters line up they are a very high quality card. I have had Great experience with it.

[Jack]

I was able to get an Audigy 4 for only ten quid. Quite the bargain, I think.

[Nuclearranger]

ok sorry if i ask i know Quid is some sort of cash but where is it agenst a USD? lol quid just a funny word...

[Jack]

Quid is a slang word for the British pound. £1 is equal to $1.85, so I got the sound card for a shade under $20.

[Nuclearranger]

ah ok thanks!

[Nuclearranger]

Lol i was just wondering if the prosesser could be upgraded or is that like hardwired onto the motherboard?

[VioletSkye]

Sure can. Just need to make sure you use the same socket type as the motherboard and that the speed pf the processor is supported by the motherboard http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Your socket type would be LGA 775 and will support the following CPU's: Intel® Pentium® D Processor
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor supporting Hyper-Threading Technology
Intel® Celeron® D ProcessorAnd possibly the: Intel Pentium EE



**OFFTOPIC**
VISTA BETA 2 is available for public download now @:
Windows Vista Customer Preview Program (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/preview.mspx)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-08 16:31 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

lol my prosesser is fine though Dual 2.8 Ghz thats enough for another year or so and plus Dell gave me overdrive n.n lets me focus one of the 2 on a single program for increased preformance Works great for games.

[Inu_Shadi]

On 2006-06-07 20:11, VioletSkye wrote:
**OFFTOPIC**
VISTA BETA 2 is available for public download now @:
Windows Vista Customer Preview Program (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/preview.mspx)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-08 16:31 ]</font>

w00t! *downloads it*

[Nuclearranger]

mmm Vista .... and its only 3.5 GB thats like a 3 day DL lol

[Nuclearranger]

I wouldnt Download it UNLESS you need /want it for programing because it still has plenty of holes and plays games like shit on old drivers o.o

[Nuclearranger]

Iv been looking for a cheap dvd burner (internal) any links?

[VioletSkye]

BenQ 16x DVD+R DVD Burner with LightScribe Technology - $39.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827101642)
BenQ 16X DVD±R DVD Burner With exclusive SolidBurn Technology - $34.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827101010)



On 2006-06-08 18:27, NuclearRanger wrote:
mmm Vista .... and its only 3.5 GB thats like a 3 day DL lol


Took about an hour and a half http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-08 19:24 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

I download at 30KB/s though lol so its alot longer and yes my town considers that craptaskular speed "Full DSL"

[Nuclearranger]

What one is better for me do you think? I dont know realy the diffenence i get most of it but correct me if im wrong the +_ sign thing means i can do dual layer? thus increaseing data per disk? Oh and whats SolidBurn? I know lightscribe.

[philamar]

Does anyone know how hard it is to upgrade the graphics card on a E1505 Dell laptop. I am considering going above the factory standards.

[Nuclearranger]

lol from what im doing to my pc it might end up being a nightmare but This is again a Violet question all i can say is more or less its hard to upgrade laptops. Let alone get the right pieces to fit in there...

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-08 20:18, philamar wrote:
Does anyone know how hard it is to upgrade the graphics card on a E1505 Dell laptop. I am considering going above the factory standards.


I believe the X1300 and X1400 mobility chips are the only options for the E1505. You already have the best card your laptop will allow. I'd call Dell to doublecheck though.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-08 20:39 ]</font>

[philamar]

Ok, thank you. I knew that they were the best that dell offered, I just didn't know if they could be upgraded. I really only plan on playing PSU on my computer. I just thought I might want a little better graphics.

[Nuclearranger]

Well the XPS laptop is more for highend gameing at dell but thats gota be like 1500$ base...

[philamar]

Yeah, xps was to rich for my blood. Its base was way to much.

[Nuclearranger]

One more question before i leave for today can i get a few links to RAM preferably cheap but not slow as shit...

[VioletSkye]

How many slots do you have open? How much RAM are you looking for? Are you wanting to match the PC2 4200 that comes with the Dell?

[Fleece]

On 2006-06-07 20:11, VioletSkye wrote:
Sure can. Just need to make sure you use the same socket type as the motherboard and that the speed pf the processor is supported by the motherboard http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Your socket type would be LGA 775 and will support the following CPU's: Intel® Pentium® D Processor
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor supporting Hyper-Threading Technology
Intel® Celeron® D ProcessorAnd possibly the: Intel Pentium EE


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-08 16:31 ]</font>


Dont forget make sure your Motherboards FSB can support the CPU. Most New motherboards can take the CPU's that are currently released but It's best to check to see if your motherboard is fast enough anyway.

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-09 03:37, Fleece wrote:


On 2006-06-07 20:11, VioletSkye wrote:
Sure can. Just need to make sure you use the same socket type as the motherboard and that the speed of the processor is supported by the motherboard http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Your socket type would be LGA 775 and will support the following CPU's: Intel® Pentium® D Processor
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor supporting Hyper-Threading Technology
Intel® Celeron® D ProcessorAnd possibly the: Intel Pentium EE


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-08 16:31 ]</font>


Dont forget make sure your Motherboards FSB can support the CPU. Most New motherboards can take the CPU's that are currently released but It's best to check to see if your motherboard is fast enough anyway.


Heh, I already mentioned that in my post http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif See the above bolded area http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

In this case it's almost irrelevent though, because even the slowest boards handle 800/533MHz and only the EE CPU's have a FSB of 1066MHz which is why I put:
And possibly the: Intel Pentium EE

The newer Conroe cores will also be 1066MHz FSB but they won't fit into any existing 775 socket motherboards anyway, so thats a moot point lol.

In re-reading my post, I guess I didn't make it clear that I was talking about FSB. What I was meaning is that the 775 socket mobo would work with the listed CPU's and that it might possibly work with the EE if the motherboard would accept a 1066MHz FSB. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-09 10:58 ]</font>

[Pure-chan]

Aww... TigerDirect just made me sad inside u_u the rebate on that Viewsonic VA1912wb monitor only applies if I buy a computer from there. Luckily, I decided to download the terms for the rebate before I bought it, since they don't mention the catch on the main page.

At $164, I would get the ViewSonic, but at $220 there are some LCDs w/better specs. This question is mostly aimed at VioletSkye, but all feedback is welcome! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Basically, I'm thinking about picking up either a BenQ FP93GX 19", or a Hanns·G HW191D 19" and was wondering if you guys had any suggestions. Here's how they stack up:

Hanns·G HW191D 19"

Native Res - 1440 x 900
300-nit brightness
Pixel Pitch - 0.294 x 0.294 mm
Contrast Ratio - 700:1
Response Time - 5 ms
Horizontal Viewing Angle - 150 degrees (H) 130 (V)
Price - $218.99

BenQ FP93GX 19"

Native Res - 1280x1024
Brightness 300 cd/m2
Pixel Pitch 0.294mm
Contrast Ratio 700:1
Response Time 2ms
Viewing Angle 140°(H) / 135°(V)
Price: $249.99 - a $30 rebate that I can actually use = $219.99

The Haans G is 16:10, the BenQ is 4:3. Since I'm not stuffing a monster card in my PC (I'm getting that X1800GTO that you recommended http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif), I'm wondering if the BenQ is a better choice. Is there a noticable difference with cards running at 1440 x 900 vs. 1280x1024? Do games handle 1440 x 900 res okay? It seems sort of wonky... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Thanks a bunch for your help guys, who know buying a PC was so educational?

[Jack]

I remember reading a website ages ago which told you how many PC games work with widescreen. There's quite a few out there, more than you'd think. Most widescreen monitors that I've seen are 16:9 though, not 16:10. The only game I've played with 16:10 support is Half-Life 2.

[AvianKaitos]

I’m a newb to PC gaming, but can someone tell me if my specs will allow me to run PSU smoothly?

It’s an eMachines T2682 model

-Windows XP
-Intel® Celeron® CPU 2.60 GHz
-766 MB of RAM
-Geforce FX 5200, 128MB RAM (might want to upgrade ><)

Can it handle PSU, or should I fall back on a PS2 version of the game? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[VioletSkye]

@Pure-chan:

I'd get neither. The Hanns 1440x900 resolution won't be able to ever push past the 900 pixel high resolution. And the BenQ isn't widescreen. Honestly, most new games will have widescreen support (and many that don't have native support for it can be modded or patched to support widescreen.) I'd still stick with a widescreen monitor that is capable of at least higher resolutions than 1440x900. To acheive that you'll want to look at 20.1" monitors (with standard resolutions of 1680x1050.) Maybe check out the:
BenQ FP202W Black 20.1" (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824014105) The response time is a little higher than the Hanns or other BenQ (8ms vs. 5ms & 2ms) but for the price, it's a good deal and you can at least play in a higher resolution than 1440x900. I know it's more money-wise than the others, but if you're going to get a descent video card, why not take advantage of it. If you really don't want to spend that much, then I'd go with the BenQ FP93GX 19" (for the 1280x1024 res and 2ms response time) If you don't mind playing in 1280x768 or 1400x900 then maybe the Hanns. Honestly, I haven't used either of them and I'm not sure gaming-wise how well a 1400x900 resolution monitor works or looks, so maybe someone else can elaborate.



On 2006-06-09 13:08, AvianKaitos wrote:
I’m a newb to PC gaming, but can someone tell me if my specs will allow me to run PSU smoothly?

It’s an eMachines T2682 model

-Windows XP
-Intel® Celeron® CPU 2.60 GHz
-766 MB of RAM
-Geforce FX 5200, 128MB RAM (might want to upgrade ><)

Can it handle PSU, or should I fall back on a PS2 version of the game? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif




I would think that it would run ok. You could always add more memory and upgrade the card if things run sluggish. Keep in mind with your CPU you wouldn't want to go too extreme on a video card upgrade anyway, so power shouldn't be an issue (given that your current power supply might not be able to properly run the newer cards anyway, if at all.)

I see that the default installed RAM is usually 256MB (although I know you have 768MB currently) so depending on how many memory slots you have left and how many sticks of memory are currently installed, you may be able to add another stick or you may need to lose the 256MB stick and upgrade it to a 512MB stick (if possible.) Maximum supported RAM is 1GB.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-09 14:55 ]</font>

[Pure-chan]

Hey http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif, first of all I want to say that I totally appreciate the feedback! This is really new to me (PC gaming n00b).

Anyway, if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, but wouldn't a wide screen where 1680x1050 is the native res pretty much gobble up the performance of the X1800GTO card that I'm picking up? I'm asking after checking out the benchmarks for the X1800GTO that I've seen. Overall, they're pretty solid - but a game like F.E.A.R. has the GTO putting along at like 16 FPS o_o::

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/sapphirex1800gto/7.html

If 1680x1050 does prove to be too taxing for some games, how difficult would it be to switch back to something more basic, like 1280x1024? I'm just not trying to have crazy, stretched-out, weirdo gaming if I can avoid it. XD

Thanks again, you guys rock http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Jack]

TFTs can run below their native resolution, but it usually looks shit. My monitor's a Viewsonic VX 715, and it scales lower-resolution images quite well. I used to have to play FEAR at 1024x768, and it didn't look too bad. Not now, though - my X1900 XT lets me play FEAR at 1280x1024 with 4x AA and everything turned up to maximum. I love my student loan.

[Blitzkommando]

On 2006-06-09 16:02, Pure-chan wrote:
Hey http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif, first of all I want to say that I totally appreciate the feedback! This is really new to me (PC gaming n00b).

Anyway, if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, but wouldn't a wide screen where 1680x1050 is the native res pretty much gobble up the performance of the X1800GTO card that I'm picking up? I'm asking after checking out the benchmarks for the X1800GTO that I've seen. Overall, they're pretty solid - but a game like F.E.A.R. has the GTO putting along at like 16 FPS o_o::

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/sapphirex1800gto/7.html

If 1680x1050 does prove to be too taxing for some games, how difficult would it be to switch back to something more basic, like 1280x1024? I'm just not trying to have crazy, stretched-out, weirdo gaming if I can avoid it. XD

Thanks again, you guys rock http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif


Often times you can have the video card run at a specified resolution at a different aspect ratio with the black bars on the sides. You won't use the whole monitor at once, but it won't stretch out the image and won't be as tasking on the card. I would suggest that only on the programs that don't support widescreen though. You'll have to set that in the driver menu but it shouldn't be too hard to do. I know that my 9800 Pro and a computer we have running the X200 internal chipset both support that so I am sure the X1800GTO will as well.

[Fleece]

On 2006-06-09 10:34, VioletSkye wrote:


On 2006-06-09 03:37, Fleece wrote:


On 2006-06-07 20:11, VioletSkye wrote:
Sure can. Just need to make sure you use the same socket type as the motherboard and that the speed of the processor is supported by the motherboard http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Your socket type would be LGA 775 and will support the following CPU's: Intel® Pentium® D Processor
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor supporting Hyper-Threading Technology
Intel® Celeron® D ProcessorAnd possibly the: Intel Pentium EE


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-08 16:31 ]</font>


Dont forget make sure your Motherboards FSB can support the CPU. Most New motherboards can take the CPU's that are currently released but It's best to check to see if your motherboard is fast enough anyway.


Heh, I already mentioned that in my post http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif See the above bolded area http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

In this case it's almost irrelevent though, because even the slowest boards handle 800/533MHz and only the EE CPU's have a FSB of 1066MHz which is why I put:
And possibly the: Intel Pentium EE

The newer Conroe cores will also be 1066MHz FSB but they won't fit into any existing 775 socket motherboards anyway, so thats a moot point lol.

In re-reading my post, I guess I didn't make it clear that I was talking about FSB. What I was meaning is that the 775 socket mobo would work with the listed CPU's and that it might possibly work with the EE if the motherboard would accept a 1066MHz FSB. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-09 10:58 ]</font>


Aye lol i've got an example :

When i last upgraded an oldish motherboard it would only take 400 FSB at max so i had to find a p4 CPU (northwood) upto 2.6 ghz that ran at 400 FSB as opposed to the 533 and 800 bus speeds that are more popular and common. It only took me a month or two to find one. eBay FTW Lol Oh i got a 2.4 BTW

My point was that, sure, your motherboard might support a faster processor but make sure it supports the motherboards bus speeds too, or youll have a pricey cpu with nowhere to put it.

[Fossil]

- ASUS A8N-SLI Premium Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard
- AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4400CDBOX
- CORSAIR XMS 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200)
- Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 300 MB/s Hard Drive

This prety much sums up the basics for my new computer I'll be getting started on soon. Just for PSU http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I'm thinking maybe 2gigs of RAM instead of 1. I'll have to see when the time comes and if my computer lags any when I'm gaming(doubtful).

Oh and the video card... is yet to be decided. Damn things are expensive. I just hope for a major price drop or sale from here till my comp is near completion.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fossil on 2006-06-10 02:52 ]</font>

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-10 02:39, Fossil wrote:
- ASUS A8N-SLI Premium Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard
- AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4400CDBOX
- CORSAIR XMS 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200)
- Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 300 MB/s Hard Drive

This prety much sums up the basics for my new computer I'll be getting started on soon. Just for PSU http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I'm thinking maybe 2gigs of RAM instead of 1. I'll have to see when the time comes and if my computer lags any when I'm gaming(doubtful).

Oh and the video card... is yet to be decided. Damn things are expensive. I just hope for a major price drop or sale from here till my comp is near completion.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fossil on 2006-06-10 02:52 ]</font>

If you haven't already purchased your motherboard, and RAM, I would recommend getting a newer AM2 board. Otherwise you'll be locked out of fututre upgrades and with the AM2 you can utilize DDR2 memory. You also get the benefit of Nvidia's newer chipsets (nForce 500 series 550, 570, 570 SLI and 590 SLI.) Check out the:
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI - $146.99. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131013)
or
MSI K9N SLI Platinum Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 - $135.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130048)

For CPU I'd recommend either the:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Windsor - $389.99 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2207247&CatId=2328)
or
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Windsor - $499.99 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2205239&CatId=2328)

The only difference is that the 4400+ has 2x1MB of L2 Cache instead of the 2x512KB L2 Cache of the 4200+.

For RAM I'd recommend:
OCZ Gold 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel - $117.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227029)
or
G.SKILL 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel - $126.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231064)
or if you really want Corsair:
CORSAIR XMS2 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel - $146.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145566)

If you did already buy the components then nm http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-10 10:15 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

ok sorry was at a party about the RAM i have 2 slots open and Also what if i DIDNOT match my other RAM cards?

[VioletSkye]

You don't necessarily have to match the brand (although it helps) but you should at least match the speed (preferably), size (per channel) and timings (preferably) of the previous 2 sticks of RAM otherwise you will no longer benefit from the dual channel support of your motherboard, in which case you would either lose dual channel all together or end up running in asymmetric DC as opposed to symmetric (true) DC. A good rule of thumb is:

* DIMMs must be installed in pairs
* Both DIMMs must use the same density memory chips
* Both DIMMs must use the same DRAM bus width
* Both DIMMs must be either single-sided or dual-sided.

[Fleece]

No offense but if your building it JUST for PSU you wont even need all that........its basically a playstation port so it wont be system intensive at all, just look at FF XI it has basically the same requirements and it ran beautifully on a 1.5 ghz p4 with 512 ram and a 5900 XT graphics card.

I dont understand why people well above the recommended spec are upgrading their pc's for PSU its not necessesary(spelling??? Dyslexic).

It all just seems a bit queer to me that's all.

[Inazuma]

On 2006-06-11 00:12, Fleece wrote:
No offense but if your building it JUST for PSU you wont even need all that........its basically a playstation port so it wont be system intensive at all, just look at FF XI it has basically the same requirements and it ran beautifully on a 1.5 ghz p4 with 512 ram and a 5900 XT graphics card.

I dont understand why people well above the recommended spec are upgrading their pc's for PSU its not necessesary(spelling??? Dyslexic).

It all just seems a bit queer to me that's all.



im going way over b/c i want to make sure i run psu as perfect as i can at 1920X1200. plus, having extra power isnt so bad. it will help w/ multitasking, etc. and maybe in the future i will buy another pc game that needs the extra power.

anyway, more power is fine. but not enough would bother me very much. i tried to get a pc for psobb that would be just enough to run it perfect. but it turned out i was a bit under and had to lower some settings and deal w/ lag in some areas. i wont make the same mistake for psu, so i am going all out this time.

also, im serious about psu being the main focus in my life. i have a goal of "best char" that i will try my best to attain. thats how i played psobb and psu wont be any different for me.

[Fleece]

It was in response to Fossil but i know what you mean but even so a dual core 4200 is still way over the top for a game that only needs 1.6 Lol, Severe Overkill.

On a side note : SDRAM Sucks......133 FTl on this(girlfriends machine) thankfully PSU wont be ram intensive so she'll be fine with her 2.4 ghz.

Goes off to play with http://www.srtest.com because its sometimes wrong lol

[lostinseganet]

On 2006-06-08 19:16, VioletSkye wrote:
BenQ 16x DVD+R DVD Burner with LightScribe Technology - $39.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827101642)
BenQ 16X DVD±R DVD Burner With exclusive SolidBurn Technology - $34.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827101010)



Took about an hour and a half http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-08 19:24 ]</font>
Recommend any dvd burnners that match price and quality? I am willing to pay at least 70 if it is quality. Also shouldn't you be recommending the socet F stuff that is comming. Socket F is suppose to be quite the upgrade.

[VioletSkye]

Why would I be recommending multi-processor boards for standard gaming purposes? The initial release of Socket F is for servers utilizing the newer dual-core and quad-core 1207 pin Opteron CPU's. For businesses, yes I am letting them know about it, but for uniprocessor boards (which is what 99.9% of standard users will need including gamers) the AM2 boards are more appropriate. I can't imagine most people here needing 2 or more processors lol. Plans have been mentioned about uniprocessor boards for Socket F, but until that happens there is little point in mentioning it.

As for DVD burners, those that I linked to are both excellent components. I'm using the one with LightScribe on this machine and it's worked flawlessly for quite awhile now and I burn ALOT of stuff. If you want something a little faster then Plextor has the fastest burner atm with 18X DVD+R and the Dual Layer DVD+R is faster as well at 10X as opposed to 2.4X. It also burns DVD-R DL. Read speed for CDs is slighty faster. It's about 3 times the price though:
PLEXTOR 18X DVD±R - $99.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827249003)

Honestly though in many real world cases, you probably won't be hitting those speeds anyway (even if you use the higher priced/faster media.)

A step down would be the PLEXTOR 16X DVD±R - $74. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827131354) It burns DL DVD+R at 8X and DL DVD-R at 4X.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-11 13:13 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

On 2006-06-10 23:17, VioletSkye wrote:
You don't necessarily have to match the brand (although it helps) but you should at least match the speed (preferably), size (per channel) and timings (preferably) of the previous 2 sticks of RAM otherwise you will no longer benefit from the dual channel support of your motherboard, in which case you would either lose dual channel all together or end up running in asymmetric DC as opposed to symmetric (true) DC. A good rule of thumb is:

* DIMMs must be installed in pairs
* Both DIMMs must use the same density memory chips
* Both DIMMs must use the same DRAM bus width
* Both DIMMs must be either single-sided or dual-sided.



Allright why dont i get the exact same then... I have no idea what i have in this or how to find out besides opening and looking at it... so um if you know where to buy them links would be great

[VioletSkye]

Get CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.com/download/cpu-z-134.zip) and run it. It will give you all the info you need to know. The Dell Dimension 9100 uses 240 pin DDR2 PC2-4200.

[Nuclearranger]

That cpu-z thing says i have PC4300>max bandwith. lol im still not sure where to buy it ill serch google for a bit and come back.


Allright im back and i found there site all i can say is that i realy realy dont know what ones mine lol
http://www.qimonda.com/computing-dram/ddr2/index.html
hmm I was also looking at there 1-4 GB would it matter if i got different sises also?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by:
NuclearRanger on 2006-06-12 08:35 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-12 08:57 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

im gonna try to hold off on my new pc till i can get the intel conroe now. and i think 2 of the new geforce cards should be good too. like having 4 video cards, lol.

[Nuclearranger]

On 2006-06-12 08:34, Inazuma wrote:
im gonna try to hold off on my new pc till i can get the intel conroe now. and i think 2 of the new geforce cards should be good too. like having 4 video cards, lol.


You CANT have two 7950s in one system. YOU CAN NOT HAVE 4 GRAPHICS CARDS. Just serch about it youl find that nvidia is not supporting quad cards.

Also nice banner Vio .... it made me stare at it for about 5 minutes before i could look away....


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-12 08:48 ]</font>

[Jack]

nVidia's not supporting Quad SLI... yet.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32211

[Nuclearranger]

More like ever....

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-12 08:28, NuclearRanger wrote:
That cpu-z thing says i have PC4300>max bandwith. lol im still not sure where to buy it ill serch google for a bit and come back.


Allright im back and i found there site all i can say is that i realy realy dont know what ones mine lol
http://www.qimonda.com/computing-dram/ddr2/index.html
hmm I was also looking at there 1-4 GB would it matter if i got different sises also?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by:
NuclearRanger on 2006-06-12 08:35 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-12 08:57 ]</font>

Interesting, most specs I looked at for the 9100 mentioned PC4200, but thats cool http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif If you have 1GB of RAM now then I would suggest only adding another 1GB (2x512MB.) Newegg has 4 listings for PC4300 in 2x512MB which you can find here: PC4300 2x512MB. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=2010170147+1052408083+1052308476&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=147) I've never used Geil so I can't comment on how well it works but it is quite a bit cheaper. The Kingston has a CAS Latency of 3 like the Corsair but it doesn't have the activity LED's. Unless you plan on overclocking, I think the Kingston would work just fine. **Note that Newegg lists an ETA of the 16th for the Kingston.** If you do go with the Geil to save some cash, let me know how it works http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Just for fun try contacting Qimonda and Dell separately to see what they would charge for 2x512MB sticks of pc4300. I'm betting Dell is quite a bit more expensive http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-12 10:53 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

Now i was looking threw those and i was just wondering what is faster?
4-4-4-12
or
3-3-3-8
those are the timeings just wondering?

ALSO would this card run as dual channel for me?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144324
if it would that would be quite cheap

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-12 13:57 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-12 14:00 ]</font>

[Jack]

Cool news for those about to build a PC - just wait a month for some bargains. AMD's slashing a lot of their prices.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2800

An X2 3800+ for just ninety quid sounds awesome.

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-12 13:49, NuclearRanger wrote:
Now i was looking threw those and i was just wondering what is faster?
4-4-4-12
or
3-3-3-8
those are the timeings just wondering?

ALSO would this card run as dual channel for me?


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144324
if it would that would be quite cheap

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-12 13:57 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-12 14:00 ]</font>

The 3-3-3-8 is technically faster. I'll give a breakdown on what the timings mean when I get home later unless someone else wants to take the time and do it.

Yes that RAM would run dual channel for you, but remember that if your current RAM uses faster timings then it will be slowed down to match the speed of the Geil and vice versa (not that it would or should make much if any discernable difference to you.)


On 2006-06-12 17:13, Jack wrote:
Cool news for those about to build a PC - just wait a month for some bargains. AMD's slashing a lot of their prices.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2800

An X2 3800+ for just ninety quid sounds awesome.


Yep, happens pretty frequently when competitors start releasing new stuff and also when the same company releases major new products. This is again awesome news for those looking to build a nice little rig for cheap. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Fleece]

Speaking of which im building another shoebox machine in two weeks for my brother.

Hes going with the sempron 64 3300+
1 GB of Corsair budget memory
512MB x1600 Card AGP 8x
120 GB Seagate Drive
DVD drive (probably Sony, theyre cheap)
in an MSI mPC 800k Case

http://www.laptops4me.com/images/pict/MB-MPC800K_LG.gif

http://www.msi-korea.co.kr/images/page/news/2005/1101/mpc800k.jpg

I SAY going with, I mean thats what i spec'd for him, he only wanted to spend 400 pounds.

Oh memory CAS latency in simple terms is : The lower the numbers the more responsive it is to changes made. Although to be fair you wont even notice it if you dont overclock or are a complete nerd.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fleece on 2006-06-12 22:04 ]</font>

[Fleece]

On 2006-06-01 20:51, VioletSkye wrote:
My specs will most likely be:
300 GB harddrive space with (2) 15,000 RPM SCSI drives in a RAID 0



Hmmm SCSI drives.......fun if you can AFFORD them (has no job) i still have a SCSI controller lying around here *looks around* shame its ISA........anyone want some SCSI burners and a controller? your PC will have to be PRE 8 years ago Lol

[VioletSkye]

Ok, I'll give a quick breakdown on the RAM timings. I'll use 3-3-3-8 for an example.

First number (3) is CAS Latency: The number of clock cycles between the time a read command is sent and the data is available. Think of it as access time.

Second number (3) is TRCD (row address to column access delay): Number of clock cycles between the active command and the read or write command.

Third number (3) is TRP (row precharge time): Number of clock cycles between a precharge command and an active command.

Fourth number (8) is TRAS (Row active time): Number of clock cycles between a bank active command and a bank precharge command..

All of those values are stored in in a memory module's SPD (serial presence detect) chip and are used by the BIOS.

Those timings are usually JEDEC (Joint Electron Device Engineering Council) certified.

Nvidia & Corsair have done something kinda cool with their new 500 series chipset and added EPP (Enhanced Performance Profile) to be used with SLI ready memory in adding two full or four abbreviated profiles to the SPD for tweaking memory. If you want the whole story check it out HERE. (http://www.guru3d.com/article/processor/348/3/)



On 2006-06-12 22:08, Fleece wrote:


On 2006-06-01 20:51, VioletSkye wrote:
My specs will most likely be:
300 GB harddrive space with (2) 15,000 RPM SCSI drives in a RAID 0



Hmmm SCSI drives.......fun if you can AFFORD them (has no job) i still have a SCSI controller lying around here *looks around* shame its ISA........anyone want some SCSI burners and a controller? your PC will have to be PRE 8 years ago Lol


Heh, SCSI still rules the kingdom of harddrive speeds. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
I should note that SATA coupled with a 10000RPM Raptor will give pretty close performance to SCSI.

SCSI runs at 320mbps whereas SATA 3Gb/s runs (theoretically) at 300mbps.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-12 22:46 ]</font>

[Fleece]

Hmmm i Have a SATA 2 drive(i believe i put in a Maxtor 72,000 250GB) , i dont think my 350 watt PSU can take 100,000 RPM(that and i need the power to stick an ageia card in) lol I'd change it but you know how these shoebox case PSU's are.

[VioletSkye]

Heh, please tell me you mean 7200 and 10,000 lol. It's gonna be awhile before we see 72,000 RPM drives let alone 100,000 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Nuclearranger]

Is it just me or is this in OFF topic now? wtf this i exactly on topic.
I DEMAND IT GETS MOVED BACK!!!!!!
Also the author isnt Violet I thought i made the first post?

[VioletSkye]

Huh? It does list you as the OP lol.

Anyway I was at a client's home today working on her machine and decided to take a pic with my phone (thus the poor image quality.)

All I can say is: Really? I beg to differ http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif
http://psofiles3.home.bresnan.net/pcno.jpg

In case you missed it, it's a 466MHz eMachine with 64MB of RAM. Go go Windows ME FTW!!!!!




On 2006-06-12 10:22, NuclearRanger wrote:
More like ever....


Actually Quad SLI will work on some motherboards. You can read the story here: (don't get too excited just yet though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif )
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA4MywxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-14 14:44 ]</font>

[Luis]

I wonder if there is anyone had ever change the graphics card of their laptop, ill know how to change the LCD, Memory, Hard Drive and even processor but not the GPU.

[VioletSkye]

I have custom built a few laptops with dedicated graphics so I've basically done it all, LCD, Harddrive, Memory, CPU, GPU, Fans, Keyboard etc. What model of laptop is it?

[Luis]

On 2006-06-15 11:47, VioletSkye wrote:
I have custom built a few laptops with dedicated graphics so I've basically done it all, LCD, Harddrive, Memory, CPU, GPU, Fans, Keyboard etc. What model of laptop is it?



Compaq Presario M2000Z with an ATI Radeon x200

[VioletSkye]

The Radeon X200 is an integrated chipset and can't be upgraded.

[Nuclearranger]

Thus why i never buy intigrated stuff
Its realy sad to see this moved to off topic because now its going to die off Ill check back monday cause im gone for the weekend but im guessing this will be pushed out. Thanks Violet And if i have any more questions more than likely ill just PM them

Hoped this topic helped people although its not over yet it will be soon O.o




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NuclearRanger on 2006-06-15 21:29 ]</font>

[Luis]

its there any laptop brand that allow to upgrade your video card?

[VioletSkye]

On 2006-06-16 09:36, Luis wrote:
its there any laptop brand that allow to upgrade your video card?


There are quite a few, but they also cost more money and use either the Radeon Mobility cards or the Nvidia Go cards and you can't switch between brands because of the motherboard. If you want to use an Nvidia Go card then you're stuck with it, because an ATI Mobility will never fit nor work in an Nvidia based notebook motherboard and vice versa.

Hopefully this will be changing soon, but the problem lies in the fact that there is no universal form factor for notebook components. Things are slowly beginning to change and in time the range of swappable components should be a lot more varied, but for now, you're usually stuck with non upgradable video, sound and sometimes CPU.

Your Radeon Xpress 200M is on par with a Mobility Radeon X300 performance-wise.

If you've never seen notebook video "cards" check them out, they are tiny and usually look just like CPU's, in fact many even have the little triangle notch on them http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VioletSkye on 2006-06-16 14:05 ]</font>

[Luis]

Yeah, the video card on laptops for MYSELF are a problem because most of the laptops got the video card integrated yeah they are stick in the motherboard, for the sound i got no problem because you can deal with that using a notebook audigy Z2, and i upgraded like 4 laptops CPU, of course they are some restrictions on what CPU can be added (socket type, FSB ect)

But too bad they havent design a Video Card expansion, i know that they cant use the PC Card as video memory or GPU because from what i know it is designed to run at 33 MHZ, and i havent seen a MINI PCI card used for something else than Wireless or Bluetooth.

At the end my next laptop will be something with a video card that last at least 2 or 3 years
go ferrari 5000

P.D Excuse me for my poor english =)