Forces and healing/buffing

[Sgt_Shligger]

Now, I've liked forces and classes that buff and heal in other games just for the extra abilities but the one thing I never liked was the burden that came with having those abilities. What I mean is that if your, say, a Fomar and you go and melee, teams tend to get mad about it. I really don't know why this is. It seems that the fact your a force means you are expected to heal your team which I really don't think is the case.

I like heals and buffs but I usually tend to stay away from them because I don't like hearing my teams complain about me not using them and other nonsense. What's your opinion on this? Do forces HAVE to heal there team just because they can? Any human can heal so why does it automatically have to be the force?

[Skorpius]

Teams only get mad if you ignore your supportive role. Good Force players that use melee can also support their team just as well. As long as you know you're doing the best you can, you'll soon realize that a lot of people bitch and complain about supports because they're just whiney little babies.

[xxTrystanxx]

I don't think that's quite what he meant. I think what he's getting at, is where is it set in stone that if you play a Force in a group, that you absolutely have to drop everything you're doing to constantly keep the other folks S/D'd, healed, etc. when all they have to do is dive headfirst into the fray?

Obviously there is no such rule that says you have to play that way -- you pay to play online just as I do, so I can't tell you how to play your character. But I think it boils down to the TEAM concept. Each member should be using his/her talents and abilities to further the TEAM along. And it just so happens that FOs use support spells better than anyone else. I would also expect a Ranger on my team to be using his guns and long-range attack skills to keep enemies in line, not to allow themselves and other teammates to become overwhelmed. I would expect androids in a team to make use of their traps, and to warn us of upcoming traps or get rid of them. And likewise, it's Hunters' job in a team to take the brunt of the damage, and also to DEAL the brunt of the damage, in order to protect the rest of team so they can continue to perform their skills.

However, I do get annoyed when I see HUs and RAs berate a FO for either not casting support techs to their liking, or for attempting to get a few attacks in. Anyone who thinks a FOs job is to sit there and press the Resta button, should try playing one.

[MadHatter]

Like many good PSO-ers, I use all three classes and races. Thus, I've seen all sides of the team concept. Here's my take on the situation, the perfect battle formation:

HU - Take the frontline. Keep Resta, Jellen, and Zalure on shortcut. Also have Anti ready at the top of your spell menu for fast-casting. Don't rely completely on your FO, or you will get killed. Jellen and Zalure are your job, unless a FO has the oppourtunity. Cast hunters...Umm...HURT STUFF!! Yeah, no-brainer there. Freeze traps rock.

RA - Take second rank. Pin down enemys to reduce damage to HU. Really not that complex for you, just attack, evade, Resta if necessary. But, if HU and FO are doing their job properly, you shouldn't have many HP worries. Casts, just do the same. Also, I'm not sure how multiplayer trapping works. I know if you shoot your own trap it triggers instantly. If thats the case for teamates' traps, shoot them to save time.

FO - Ahh, yes. The glass cannon. Take position close behind or beside RA. Make sure everyone is running Shifta/Deband at all times. Obviously, Lv30 Resta is insane. But don't be too liberal. Know what your teamate's can take, wait until they're missing enough HP to make your spell worth it. If they're missing a small amout and complain, they can take care of themselves. Small healing is not your problem. Also, some FO are good with melee. I'd say, use guns, cards, or weapons like Elysion to keep your distance, but if you really want to and have the stats to back it go ahead. But be careful. The best use of a FO is attack techs, though. A good FO can dish it out as good as a HU, but at a distance and a cost.

*Whew*

[xxTrystanxx]

Jellen and Zalure are your job, unless a FO has the oppourtunity.

I would tend to disagree. J/Z should primarily be a FO's job, if only to ensure that they get an exp. tag on the enemies.

[MadHatter]

True, though I find it easier to just cast it myself since most of the critters are closest to me. Of course, any FO can beat a HU spell by a country mile http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif But it's a matter of speed and efficiency amongst my circle of friends. Tagging can be done easily enough with attack techs, Rafoie is a beautiful thing. Besides, FO should deal SOME damage.

Your method is good in it's own right, of course. I just have my way of doin' stuff. What can I say, I'm a HUmar at heart.

[EphekZ]

If you cant efectivly melee and fully support(which is very easy) then just go full support. It's not that hard to j/z enemies before you attack them.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkgunner on 2006-07-02 00:45 ]</font>

[Jarek]

On 2006-07-02 00:45, darkgunner wrote:
It's not that hard to j/z enemies before you attack them.


lol This is so simple, but so true.

Here's the way I see it.
Hunters & Rangers: Best offense, lower support abilities
Forces: Lower offense, best support abilities

Who would you want to keep the team up and going, and the enemies weak? Someone from the 'best support abilities' category I think. Who would you want to then blaze through enemies quickly and effectively? Someone from the 'best offense' category.
Does that mean you can't be diverse and do some of both? Hell no. Take those Humar's and let them resta, allow the melee forces to keep dishing out their damage. Yes they can do both, but that doesn't mean they aren't more inclined toward one or the other. It's finding the right balance that's necessary.

[Your_MajestY]

On 2006-07-01 13:49, xxTrystanxx wrote:
Anyone who thinks a FOs job is to sit there and press the Resta button, should try playing one.

Couldn't agree more!
I play FOrce and people bitching for constant support and healing should really (!) try being the one running aroud without HP, hardly without defense either, and whos teammates are shouting "OMFG, n00b FORCE, i had liek 1589/1590 HP! Resta or i leave" all the time.

As for me, I play fu**ing FONEWM! With, huh, NO boost in whatsoever support and healing.
Really pisses me off, especially when HUmars whines.
I don't mind healing and supporting, but fGs let me play as want! I refferr (?) to the qoute.

- Thank you.

[rena-ko]

its simple tho, at least for cube.
techs are weaker online + stuff has more HP to begin with ~> rather unfun to be a nuke-force online, outside of cmode.
one of the reasons why i turned my fomarl into a support-tank that occasionally melees (with mechs mostly because i really love the castinganimation-with-mechs-equipped).

[Akulamenuri]

Like everyone else is saying, people don't mind melee forces as long as they do there support job first. Casting Shifta and Deband on your teammates and casting Jellen and Zalure on enemies should be on a higher priority list than dishing out a little damage from a melee force. In fact, these support roles should be instinctive to a melee force because they required attack augmentation and weakened monsters in order to dish out more damage.

Support then Melee, simple as that.

[Mwabwetumba]

Ive only ever played as an android in PSO, and have no experience with the FO class whatsoever, so Im happy with what I get.
Be it S/D, J/Z on the enemies or resta, its all good and makes the job a bit easier for my part!

[Non-Toxic-Crayons]

I play a HUnewearl... And I get rather annoyed when it suddenly becomes MY responsibility to cast S/D/J/Z because our FO would rather nuke things. Believe it or not, it is in everyones best interest to cast your high level support spells... It makes things go alot faster. It's not like it takes that much time. I mean, when I play solo, I always cast those spells because it brings out my full potential. So when I'm on a team with a FO, and we are running on my level 20 support, the team might get a little frustrated because we could be running on level 30. You know a good FO when they keep these spells casted AND melee/nuke without a problem.

As for anti.... Most people I play with use sols/antiparalysis before you can get the anti off most of the time... unless your REALLY fast. But I would say that its a good idea for the non-FO's to customize Anti, because the FO usually has too many other things they need on their customize bar.

[xxTrystanxx]

I keep Anti close to the top of my Techs quick-menu. I don't use enough to warrant a spot on my buttons. Same thing with Reverser unless we're in an area where I KNOW we'll get pwned, like Towers.

[BeeYee]

I disagree with you SgtShligger, I think Forces should be used for support mostly. *looks at title* My friends would do almost no damage with my spells, sure I attack with my spells too. But I think being a good support force and having people like you is very satisfying. My techs dont do too much in Multiplayer, maybe only 150-200 damage, so I use J/Z and S/D. In single player they do a lot though and i just use D and J.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2006-07-01 13:49, xxTrystanxx wrote:
I think what he's getting at, is where is it set in stone that if you play a Force in a group, that you absolutely have to drop everything you're doing to constantly keep the other folks S/D'd, healed, etc.


That's exactly what I think. Now as for what everyone has been saying about Forces... I guess I would be classified as a "nub" for how I play. I make forces for the perks of their class and challenges. Support isn't really my thing... it's bad force tactics but I do what works for me. Problem being, it would seem everyone of my teams expect me to play my role which I can't really blame them for.

Is it really that unacceptable to put fighting before support and let someone else handle it?

[xxTrystanxx]

I don't see why casting support spells on a melee force is such a big deal. If you were by yourself, you'd be casting S/D on yourself, wouldn't you? You'd heal yourself with Resta, wouldn't you? So casting them for the team is still helping YOU in the long run.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2006-07-03 01:15, xxTrystanxx wrote:
I don't see why casting support spells on a melee force is such a big deal. If you were by yourself, you'd be casting S/D on yourself, wouldn't you? You'd heal yourself with Resta, wouldn't you? So casting them for the team is still helping YOU in the long run.


Nah. I cast techniques when I am having trouble. I guess I do make a bad force/healer... I work on my own schedule and help my team when I have some free time or see that it's really needed. Otherwise, I'll work enemies using very few techniques.

I think the line "Work on my own schedule" sums up a lot of how I play.

[Your_MajestY]

Kinda same train for me.
I think I'll play better alone when I get online. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Or I get hold of a tech-force-team.=)

[Zarbolord]

I think that it's only worth using D and S if you have them at 20 or higher. J and Z ofcourse, not on weak enemies, duh! You just need to balance out what you do.

[BeeYee]

On 2006-07-03 07:03, Zarbolord wrote:
I think that it's only worth using D and S if you have them at 20 or higher. J and Z ofcourse, not on weak enemies, duh! You just need to balance out what you do.



Yes, indeed. They will last longer and they are more effective. My support techs are all lvl 30, my only maxed spells.

[Rhelik]

This whole thing is about the unwritten rules of what people are expected to do for their class. It happens in every multiplayer game.

As for melee FOs... I play one and my first priority is to J/Z everything to not only tag the enemies but to allow faster killing.
Obviously S/D and Resta/Anti are important but once everything is weakened, i'll just throw my slicer at the enemies until a new set comes or someone needs healing or whatever.

Just realize, as a FO, your damage is sub-par to a HU or RA. It helps (dont get me wrong) but as a FO, you are not a damage dealer and you are not a tank, so some people get infuriated because you try to be one of those since it doesnt fit in the "standard party role that is expected."

Heheh, usually was makes me mad is when the reverse happens, when the non-FOs buff/debuff (i know some situations call for it, but i'm talking consistently) or when no one will Anti me but get upset when i dont Anti them... =(

[MadHatter]

FOnewearls and FOmars should focus more on support, boosted S/D/R and J/Z respectively. FOnewms are nuking machines, and should take advantage of that. Dunno offhand what bonuses FOmarls have, but you get the idea.

[xxTrystanxx]

Fomarls get a 1.5x damage boost on Grants. They also have doubled S/D, Resta, and Anti range. Statistically, out of the four classes, FOmars are the most geared toward melee combat, and I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with capitalizing on that.

But the bottom line is, there isn't any written rule stating that if you play a FO, you have to support your team, but it's more of a common courtesy that you would use your class' skills to the best advantage of the team. I mean, that's why you're playing with three other people, right?

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2006-07-03 15:42, xxTrystanxx wrote:
Fomarls get a 1.5x damage boost on Grants. They also have doubled S/D, Resta, and Anti range. Statistically, out of the four classes, FOmars are the most geared toward melee combat, and I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with capitalizing on that.

But the bottom line is, there isn't any written rule stating that if you play a FO, you have to support your team, but it's more of a common courtesy that you would use your class' skills to the best advantage of the team. I mean, that's why you're playing with three other people, right?


I join others for the fun of it. I don't play my CLASSES role. I play my own role. As it has been said, it has never been written a force has to heal so I just don't http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Mystil]

I'm a FOne therefore I don't melee. I've tried and no one complained. People will bark more when SD is down longer than 10 seconds. Unless you are playing with mid-level players(100-150) you shouldnt be resta'ing all that much. FOmars and marls *can* melee and support, they are built for it. It should be expected of them. I know I'm the problem when I have to spam rabarta(a form of support)and people don't complain about that, but techs cancel out melee damage. Melee damage doesn't cancel out other melee damage. Unless they are neglected thier supportive duties, no one should give them a hard time.