do you still remember...

[clynn]

...Columbine? Anybody? Remember who got blamed for it? Marilyn Manson, the sickest Heavy Metal star ever, but still I like him, but thats not what I wanted to talk aubout, I wanted to say isn't it ironic that he kinda got framed for it? I mean Eric and Dylan ( who commited the massacre) actually didn't even like Manson, they liked the German rock band Ramstein, and even though the athoroties knew that Manson wasnt to be blamed they still did it untill up to a few months and just think how badly he got screwed because of that, i think the media did it so that we would be scared of him because he's different, I think fear controlls the world, if everybody is scared they do what the government sais and so we all become brain dead idiots, whats your opinon on that?

p.s: I could have used any other thing líke this to try and make my point if you got at similar situation write it in here

[Solstis]

I'm sure that Marilyn sold more records because of it.

Bohoo, a rock star got blamed for something.

I'm pretty sure that Allos wouldn't agree with Marilyn being "Heavy Metal" either.

[clynn]

OK seems that you didn't understand my point lets try it differently: Did you ever hear of the killer bee thingi there? I heard of it and they were supposed to reach different places in the world, well guess what, they never did, and it was the same with H5N1 the bird flu , if it really was so contagous, then why didn't we all catch it, and why did all those chickens die? their bodies were examined but even though they didn't have the virus they were killed, but now 2 months after we all got pumped full of fear we hear nothing about bird flu anymore. I find that suspicious, what about you

[Soinkus]

No.

I find that when the media quits talking about it, so does the genral public.

More people are interested in Croc Hunter dying then their own health.

That's why I watch the Colbert Report.
He's on the ball.

[Solstis]

On 2006-09-07 09:20, clynn wrote:
OK seems that you didn't understand my point lets try it differently: Did you ever hear of the killer bee thingi there? I heard of it and they were supposed to reach different places in the world, well guess what, they never did, and it was the same with H5N1 the bird flu , if it really was so contagous, then why didn't we all catch it, and why did all those chickens die? their bodies were examined but even though they didn't have the virus they were killed, but now 2 months after we all got pumped full of fear we hear nothing about bird flu anymore. I find that suspicious, what about you



It's like someone vomited on the Internet. Ugh, ugh, have to clean my screen now.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

What you're talking about with Marilyn Manson also happened with Dungeons & Dragons back in the 80's. Failed parents needed a scape goat, and his media image fit the bill. After all, it can't be possible that THEY fucked up, by golly, no! They were obviously perfect parents whose children fell prey to a malevolent influencer!

And as far as the killer bees, SARS and bird flu go, what you're talking about is what the media reported COULD happen, if it's allowed to take its course. These are all things that could have claimed a great deal of human lives, but didn't because we had foresight enough to do what we had to to put a stop to them. It's not conspiracy, it's just the human race surviving with caution.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

What's the original point of this thread?

You want people to blame Rammstein instead?

Is this all being said half heartedly in a non serious tone, hence (mis)placed in this forum?

[Allos]

On 2006-09-07 08:40, Solstis wrote:


I'm pretty sure that Allos wouldn't agree with Marilyn being "Heavy Metal" either.



You're damn right!

More like heavy stupid! Ohhhh!!


No but seriously he's shock-rock/industrial/nu-metal. To call him the "sickest heavy metal guy ever"...you disgrace the world.

[Nogatorr]

Definately, Manson sucks big time. Tis the greatest of disgraces to call him Heavy Metal. It's like calling Megadeth a Metallica rip-off band... more like the other way around.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

dude, Megadeth is way better than Metallica, at least right now. I like Marilyn Manson but I agree that he isn't metal.

[Sinue_v2]

I think fear controlls the world

Bingo.

Fallout from Cherynobyl, SARS, Bird Flu, Killer Bees, Global Warming, Terrorism, Y2K, Communism, ect... ect... It's all about fear, because fearful people are controllable people. Just ask the Catholic Church, they've been using the fear of hell to get people to worship for millenia - and they're the world's strongest religeon. Now, not to say that there is some global consortium who's out to just scare us and make a profit off it. Hardly - but that's just how it goes in the media. News is entertainment, and of course they also use fear to get people to watch. Any profitering and gouging which goes on because of that fear - or any governmental restrictions placed on the people because of that fear - just happen to be oppertunism at it's finest.


These are all things that could have claimed a great deal of human lives, but didn't because we had foresight enough to do what we had to to put a stop to them.

Or it's simply because a lot of those issues weren't real threats to begin with - but the media played them up to get ratings. It happens all the time... look at the photoshopped Reuter's photo of Beruit. The problem is, most of these problems are only "Percieved Threats" - but haven't been researched enough to actually know what their actual implications are. The media just picks up on this stuff and blows it completely out of proportion. It's called sensationalism.

And a small aside about conspiracies: Yes, they can - and do happen. It seems every time someone mentions anything which is slightly conspiracy oriented, people cover their ears and yell "Blah, Blah, Blah". I admit that a good 90% or more of these conspiracy theories are just crack-pot paranoids screaming for attention - but to completely ignore all and anything that has to do with a conspiracy is just as dangerous as believing every one you come across.

The word wasn't invented after JFK's assassination. It was created for a reason.


It's not conspiracy, it's just the human race surviving with caution.

Forgive my pessimism, but there is nothing cautious about how the human race survives. It wasn't caution which lead us to the brink of MAD durring the Cuban Missle Crisis, it wasn't caution which destoryed Yellow Stone National Forrest (multiple times over), it isn't caution which allows corperations to dump toxic chemicals in the world's air and water supplies, it isn't caution which is clear-cutting the rainforests, it wasn't caution which lead the world into two of the most devistating wars in history, it wasn't caution which cost so many lives in New Orleans, and it wasn't caution which lead us into this war on terrorism.

Cautious - hell. We have a vaccine for the HPV Virus which is known to cause 70% of all Cervical Cancer - yet we don't bother making innoculations manditory because of some morally rightgeous bullshit over it being an STD. Oh.. but there's infomercials on TV! Yeah - that tell women to keep up on their pap tests. I've yet to see one that mentions the vaccine yet.

No... we are not a cautious people by any measure IMO.

Oh.. and yeah, Maryln Manson sucks ass.

[RoninJoku]

On 2006-09-08 09:11, Sinue_v2 wrote:

Some great points



99% agree with everything apart from the last paragraph. Because I do believe the human race is cautious... A little ignorant (er, maybe a LOT ignorant)... But cautious nontheless... And that's part of the reason why fear controlls the world, i think...

And it's not just church and the media that controls with fear. But the very foundation of law is fear of punishment... It's absurd to believe that any human isn't controlled in some part of thier lives by fear of punishment-big or small, abstract or black & white...

[Sinue_v2]

Because I do believe the human race is cautious... A little ignorant (er, maybe a LOT ignorant)

Yeah, but that's just the thing. We're not cautious, we're reactionary. Again, look at Yellow Stone. When it was first founded, it looked nothing like it does today. We tried to be cautious and preserve the Elk population - so we shot wolves enmasse. Almost to the point of extinction in that area. Then it turns out, that the Elk populations were too LARGE, and that they were doing irreprerable damage to the fauna. (which in turn, affected the animals - like Beavers who relied on the fauna) So we re-introduce wolves - but by that point, the forest ecology has already changed so much that it was never the same place again. Then we tried to preserve it by stamping out forest fires - not realizing that many of the animals and plants in the forest RELIED on forest fires. However, when the overly dry and abundant timber finally caught - it caused a fire so hot that it destoryed the plants which normally depend on it.

We over-reacted and tried to make changes in a horrenously complex ecosystem which we barely understood (and some would argue, we still barely understand), and just ended up screwing the situation up even worse. This pattern is repeated all over the world, in all sorts of situations. We act without thinking, using only a small base knowladge and "Good Intentions". Well, all the good intentions in the world don't add up to a mound of ****. All that matters is results.. and we consistantly fail to provide those. Sooner or later, a new fear comes along and we all scurry around trying to styme something we barely understand, but only percieve as a threat.

[Danger_Girl]

On 2006-09-08 15:06, Sinue_v2 wrote:

Because I do believe the human race is cautious... A little ignorant (er, maybe a LOT ignorant)

Yeah, but that's just the thing. We're not cautious, we're reactionary. Again, look at Yellow Stone. When it was first founded, it looked nothing like it does today. We tried to be cautious and preserve the Elk population - so we shot wolves enmasse. Almost to the point of extinction in that area. Then it turns out, that the Elk populations were too LARGE, and that they were doing irreprerable damage to the fauna. (which in turn, affected the animals - like Beavers who relied on the fauna) So we re-introduce wolves - but by that point, the forest ecology has already changed so much that it was never the same place again. Then we tried to preserve it by stamping out forest fires - not realizing that many of the animals and plants in the forest RELIED on forest fires. However, when the overly dry and abundant timber finally caught - it caused a fire so hot that it destoryed the plants which normally depend on it.

We over-reacted and tried to make changes in a horrenously complex ecosystem which we barely understood (and some would argue, we still barely understand), and just ended up screwing the situation up even worse. This pattern is repeated all over the world, in all sorts of situations. We act without thinking, using only a small base knowladge and "Good Intentions". Well, all the good intentions in the world don't add up to a mound of ****. All that matters is results.. and we consistantly fail to provide those. Sooner or later, a new fear comes along and we all scurry around trying to styme something we barely understand, but only percieve as a threat.




Holy smokes, I hope they're not teaching you to think like that in college.

[clynn]

I understood all of what ýou said but I wonder why are we afraid and why do we always run away, why do we beleave evrything that we are told? Is it in our nature to be scared shitless and never think? We never think only the president and the leaders of the world think for us, thats not right.

[Dangerous55]

Al Bundy does not care about black people.

HAH, actually people should start taking responsibility. Stop blaming, video games, music, TV, guns, swords, yadda yadda yadda.

[clynn]

Thats right, but some games really did mess with the mid of people, but I don't thik music TV, guns, swords can mess with people and if they do then they are really fucking stupid because I still am growing up around heavy metal musik my dad (whos a gun/sword/knive/hunting/ex-army psyco) and weird and violent music

[Sinue_v2]

Holy smokes, I hope they're not teaching you to think like that in college.

How is that line of thinking wrong, iyo?

[Danger_Girl]

On 2006-09-09 22:55, Sinue_v2 wrote:

Holy smokes, I hope they're not teaching you to think like that in college.

How is that line of thinking wrong, iyo?



Too pessimistic. Humanity makes mistakes, thats a given. But as a whole I think we're doing pretty well. I really can't complain about how my life has gone (although sometimes I still do), and I've managed to enjoy a lot of the fruits of my work. Not everything is always fair, and I've had my ups and downs, but that's just the way things go sometimes.

In 1988, the year in which Yellowstone saw those massive forest fires, it was an extreamly dry year. In fact it was the driest and windiest year recorded in Yellowstone since the parks establishment in 1872. They only saw 32% of their normal precipitation, so putting the onus all on park management is a little unfair.


Then we tried to preserve it by stamping out forest fires - not realizing that many of the animals and plants in the forest RELIED on forest fires.
That statement actually isn't entirely true. Yellowstone adapted a natural burn policy in 1972.

You also say fear controls the world, but lets be honest. When was the last time you didn't go outside because you were afraid of SARS or birdflu or killer bees? Did you stay home today because you were afraid of terrorists? Probably not. I can only speak from my own experiences, but I can honestly say most of the fear mongering that goes on really doesn't affect me at all.

I'll agree with you that the media does sensationalize. I suggest watching Newshour with Jim Lehrer on PBS. And for the love of God turn off the cable news programs.http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Anyway, if that's the way you want to see the world, I'm not going to try and convince you that you're wrong or that humanity is perfect, but I do think that things are still pretty good. Sometimes we need to take the time to filter out all the negativity and bullshit that gets crammed down our throats and look at the positives that are right in front of our noses.

[Wolf216]

The media is useless, it's all propoganda! The world is on the "war" on Iraq right now. BTW humans ain't perfect and that is why I hate people. Don't tell me that i think I'm the only perfect one either, because I'm human too. That is why I hate myself. It's healthy to hate onesself and others. I just do it constantly. LOL

[Sinue_v2]

Too pessimistic. Humanity makes mistakes, thats a given. But as a whole I think we're doing pretty well.

Well, perhaps I just view pessimism differently. I sometimes find myself as a bit of a crumudgeon. While I chide the mistakes we've made with our technology, I do marvel at the scientific process and only wish to see it improve and expand. I've no doubt that things will only get better from here on out - largely because of that technology and knowlage we've gained. However, we can never be too certain and complacant about the technology and knowladge that we have. IMO, that's increadibly dangerous.

No, collage didn't teach me to think this way. I've always been a pessimist, simply for the fact that as long as you can always find something wrong with a thing or an idea - then you can always improve upon it.


You also say fear controls the world, but lets be honest. When was the last time you didn't go outside because you were afraid of SARS or birdflu or killer bees? Did you stay home today because you were afraid of terrorists? Probably not. I can only speak from my own experiences, but I can honestly say most of the fear mongering that goes on really doesn't affect me at all.

It doesn't affect me either - but judging by how this country has reacted to these new laws and restrictions which have been placed upon us out of fear of terrorism. SARS and the Bird Flu, not so much, but Y2K did have a huge impact on at least American society. In a way, you could actually view it as a positive effect for the economy - since it created a plethora of new jobs upgrading computer systems and code. The economy boomed with the "Tech Bubble" which can at least partially be attributed to the Y2K threat. Not to mention that many people, my own mother (unfortunately), bought several months worth of canned food and lost quite a bit of money buying gold and other tradeable commodities because they were afraid of the digital boogeyman who was going to usher in the apocalypse.


That statement actually isn't entirely true. Yellowstone adapted a natural burn policy in 1972.

True, but by 1988 only about 34,000 acres were allowed to burn naturally, and far less acerage was purposefully cleaned up. Firefighting crews were present at each incident to make sure the fire didn't get "out of control". It wasn't until 1988 that the rammifications of the previous fire suppression policy were displayed to devistating effect as over 793,000 were emolated - on a scale which to my knowladge is absolutely unprecidented for those areas of the parks.