Item ATP question

[FengShui]

A quick question when the item databse say an items ATP for example Flowens AUW 3084 is 300-320 Does it mean it's 300 then grinds to 320 or is it like armour and can be between 300 and 320?

Sorry if it's a stupid or old question but the brain got confused.

[BeeYee]

its like, when you do different amounts of damage to an enemy, you dont do the same damage every time.

[FengShui]

Oh so my minimum can be 300 and my maximum can be 320?

[Splash]

Exactly. The minimum increase is 300, but maximum increase is 320.

[T0m]

Jill, there's a good guide concerning variable ATP. (Hrith linked to it just a few days ago in this (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=119938&forum=1&5) topic.

Vulpes' Variable ATP Guide (http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2267)

[whiteninja]

20 ATP difference:
Weak Attack = 4 damage
Heavy Attack = 7 damage

Not very big. Most people exaggerate the effects of it, especially whenever anyone mentions the 9000M.

[Neith]

On 2006-09-28 21:56, whiteninja wrote:
20 ATP difference:
Weak Attack = 4 damage
Heavy Attack = 7 damage

Not very big. Most people exaggerate the effects of it, especially whenever anyone mentions the 9000M.



Meh, Mechs have virtually no ATP anyway to begin with.

It does become more apparent on say a Red Sword though.

[Kevino]

9000m comming to a shopping mall near you

[Hrith]

On 2006-09-29 05:20, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Meh, Mechs have virtually no ATP anyway to begin with.Wanna try MM? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Your example is highly misleading, Whiteninja, since the damage difference due to ATP variance is affected by Shifta, Zalure, monster DFP, character raw ATP and Photon attributes, the difference in damage dealt may vary by a lot more in different situations.

Variable ATP is just something players cope with in different ways. Meteor Cudgel has a wide ATP variance, yet it never bothered me, on the other hand, I cannot stand using Red Sword or Yasminkov 9000M for that reason *shrugs*

[whiteninja]

On 2006-09-29 08:29, Hrith wrote:
Your example is highly misleading, Whiteninja, since the damage difference due to ATP variance is affected by Shifta, Zalure, monster DFP, character raw ATP and Photon attributes, the difference in damage dealt may vary by a lot more in different situations.
The variant damage from an ATP range is affected by Shifta, and photon attributes. (Very slightly.) That is all.

[Hrith]

Wrong. The more powerful you are, the higher the variance, so everything I mentioned comes into play.

It's simple logic, 5% of 1000 is less than 5% of 4000.

[whiteninja]

On 2006-09-29 15:40, Hrith wrote:
Wrong. The more powerful you are, the higher the variance, so everything I mentioned comes into play.

It's simple logic, 5% of 1000 is less than 5% of 4000.
Regardless of how much ATP your character has, the weapon's ATP does not change (except for Shifta and percents, which were mentioned). That's what causes the variance. <_>

If you have a character hitting damage from 150-165 on a weak attack, and you give him an additional 200 ATP (unequipped, but including Shifta), he will now hit from 186-201. The variance is still 15 damage.

An additional 200 ATP later, you will hit from 222-237.

[Neith]

On 2006-09-29 08:29, Hrith wrote:

On 2006-09-29 05:20, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Meh, Mechs have virtually no ATP anyway to begin with.Wanna try MM? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



220ATP unground? Strong for a mech, yes. Strong overall? No http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Yeah, hits 9 times and ends up doing more damage than almost anything, but for ATP per shot, it's still weak, heh.

[Hrith]

On 2006-09-29 15:51, whiteninja wrote:
Regardless of how much ATP your character has, the weapon's ATP does not change (except for Shifta and percents, which were mentioned). That's what causes the variance. <_>

If you have a character hitting damage from 150-165 on a weak attack, and you give him an additional 200 ATP (unequipped, but including Shifta), he will now hit from 186-201. The variance is still 15 damage.

An additional 200 ATP later, you will hit from 222-237.That's what you don't understand, then. Damage in PSO is exponential.

Let's you have 1500 ATP and you deal 300 damage to a monster A and 800 damage to monster B.
With 2000 ATP, you would deal 400 damage to Monster A, but 1060 to monster B.

The difference in damage between 1500 ATP and 2000 ATP went from 500 on monster A to 660 on monster B.
Therefore raw ATP and monster DFP (thus Zalure) do affect ATP variance.

[Drakorn]

[b]I think that it means it will add +300 to your Total ATP, and you may also add grinders to make it Flowen Sword +10

[Drakorn]

not particularly sure

[Hrith]

Maybe if you had read the previous posts, and the excellent guide made by VulpesMundi you would not post such incredibly stupid replies.

If you had just checked the page for Flowen's Sword 3084, you would have noticed it grinds to +85, gaining 170 ATP.

And since you don't seem to know how to edit your own posts, read that:
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=46741&forum=6&14

[whiteninja]

On 2006-09-30 04:26, Hrith wrote:
That's what you don't understand, then. Damage in PSO is exponential.
Completely wrong.


Let's you have 1500 ATP and you deal 300 damage to a monster A and 800 damage to monster B.
With 2000 ATP, you would deal 400 damage to Monster A, but 1060 to monster B.
First part of the example: means monster A has 167 DFP... and monster B has -2944. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Second part: With 500 more ATP, you would deal 390 and 890, respectively.


The difference in damage between 1500 ATP and 2000 ATP went from 500 on monster A to 660 on monster B.
Therefore raw ATP and monster DFP (thus Zalure) do affect ATP variance.
Yes, in that example, it does. However, that example cannot occur in PSO.

This one can:
By using my Racast (lv140), and switching of some God/Powers, S-Ranks, and a 145 Power mag, I got him to some different increments of ATP (mostly by 50's). I then found the normal attack damage to a Bartle and an Arlan, offline.

ATP. Bartle Arlan
821. 66 . . 35
871. 75 . . 44
1111 118 . .87
1161 127 . .96
1261 145 . .114
1311 154 . .123

Each 50 ATP is an exact increase of 9 damage, to both enemies. Now, for extra fun, I used my lv33 S-Rank Zalure on the Arlan. This is the damage I got:

ATP. Arlan (under S-Rank Zalure)
821. 93
871. 102
1111 145
1161 154
1261 172
1311 181

Each attack did exactly 58 more damage; a Mech hitting for 15x3 (on a single normal attack) would now hit for 73x3.

I'm not going to argue with you on this. There is no argument. I'm right.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: whiteninja on 2006-09-30 21:40 ]</font>

[PMB960]

Its the same thing for techs too. Every roughly 5 MST you gain you do about 1 more point of damage. It wouldn't make sense for damage to go up exponentially. Characters wouldn't have a max ATP or MST that high. If you can do 200 damage at level 65 on Ult. like my RAcast who has 680 ATP and damage went up exponetially then I would be defeating monsters in one shot if I maxed it out.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PMB960 on 2006-09-30 22:21 ]</font>

[Hrith]

On 2006-09-30 21:15, whiteninja wrote:
I'm right.I hope you at least convinced yourself.


On 2006-09-30 22:14, PMB960 wrote:
Its the same thing for techs too. Every roughly 5 MST you gain you do about 1 more point of damage. It wouldn't make sense for damage to go up exponentially. Characters wouldn't have a max ATP or MST that high. If you can do 200 damage at level 65 on Ult. like my RAcast who has 680 ATP and damage went up exponetially then I would be defeating monsters in one shot if I maxed it out.You should look up 'exponential', then. If ATP wasn't exponential, a Lv 200 char going back to normal mode would deal 10000 damage to monsters.

[whiteninja]

On 2006-10-01 04:03, Hrith wrote:
You should look up 'exponential', then. If ATP wasn't exponential, a Lv 200 char going back to normal mode would deal 10000 damage to monsters.
Your damage to monster:
(Your ATP - Enemy DFP) / 5 * 0.9 = Weak Attack
Weak * 1.89 = Heavy
Weak * 3.32 = Sacrificial
Weak * 5.56 = Vjaya

I know you have seen me post that recently.

Ramarl, lv200, has about 1542 ATP (lv20 Shifta, no weapon). A Mothmant has 0 DFP.

(1542 - 0) / 5 * 0.9 = 278

That is why you don't do 412349078609841 damage. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

PMB's observation about MST is pretty accurate too; only, 5 MST = 1 damage for an enemy with 0 resistance. If an enemy has 50, or 75, then to add one damage you need 10, or 20, MST. Since enemies at later difficulties have that much, especially online, MST growth becomes quite pathetic, but it is still linear.

[PMB960]

um exponential means it would add more and more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth See eventually you would be doing several more points of damage for 1 more ATP and that just doesn't happen. And it could be the inverse of that since you would need 1000 more ATP to do 1 more point of damage and that doesn't happen either. (1542 - 0) / 5 * 0.9 = 278 there is no squared term in this function it is linear which means it steadily goes up at the same rate all the time. Again it is eaisier to see with forces since they always do the same amount of damage per hit.

[whiteninja]

On 2006-10-01 08:41, PMB960 wrote:
Again it is eaisier to see with forces since they always do the same amount of damage per hit.
The variance on melee attacks comes from two things:
1) Variable ATP, which is nonexistant on S-Ranks, and some other weapons. (Demolition Comet is a popular one.)
2) The damage multipliers vary. The numbers of 1.0 for weak, 1.89 for hard, 3.32 for *sacrificial* special, and 5.56 for the Vjaya, are all open to about +/- 0.01 variation. That is why even S-Ranks may hit one or two damage off.

Edit: *sacrificial* The damage multiplier for attacks like Gush is 0.59... I think. Doesn't really matter though, since those aren't meant to do damage. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Burning, etc. is based on character level, and enemy resistances.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: whiteninja on 2006-10-01 10:47 ]</font>