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Rizen
Oct 4, 2006, 08:31 PM
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/howismyaiming.png

This topic is now made to be a basic guide and also a place to talk about the Ranger class itself; a place to ask questions, rants, give tips, and thoughts on Rangers. This thread has been very successfully for the most part without me present and I hope it continues to be that way.


[About Ranger]
As you may know the Ranger class has change significantly. Instead of just dealing damage from a far, Rangers are more of a support class in a sense: masters of crowd control and debuffs. We use our guns to unload Bullets (our Photon Arts specialty) which inflict special debuffs (Status Effects(SE))on the enemies which enable yourself or party to attack, run away safely, or even deal damage over time (DoTs). Rangers also have a knack to get mob attention. Getting enemy attention isn't a bad thing. By drawing their attention, you can lead them away from others so they can do what they need to eliminate other enemies. Also, Ranger-type classes are the only classes to be able to use Traps. There are many different types of traps that range from dealing damage, applying SE or stopping enemies, but more about that later.

It might take a while for old PSO Rangers to get use to this role, but from what I’m playing on PSU right now it will be a fun one.


[Terms]

Main Hand - Meaning used in right (1h Saber, 1h Claw, 1h Knife)
Offhand - Meaning used in left hand (Handgun, Crossbow, Mechgun)
Buff – Meaning strengthening yourself or enemy
Debuff - Meaning weakening enemy or yourself.
1h - One Handed
2h - Two Handed
DoT - Damage over Time
SE - Status Effect


[Status Effects (Debuffs) for Bullets]

Fire: Burn – Slowly causes damage over time by a certain % of life. Leaves enemies with at least 1 HP.
Ice: Freeze - Stops from moving, cast, and attacking.
Lightning: Shock - Stops from attacking, but can still move.
Earth: Silence - Stops from casting, but can still move.
Light: Confusion - Causes inflicted to run around in circles and/or attack others.
Dark: Infection – Quickly causes damage over time by a certain % of life. Can kill the enemies on tick.[
Earth: Poison - Quickly causes damage over time by a certain % of life.


[Stats for Ranger]

ATA – The most important stat for Rangers. It is necessary to have in order to use guns. ATA is accuracy which determines the chance to hit the enemy without missing (dealing 0 damage).
ATP – ATP is attack power. Second most important stat for Rangers. ATP is the attack power which deals with how much damage you do to an enemy. Also determines how what melee weapons you can use.
EVP – EVP is evasion. Evasion helps with your chances to dodge an enemy attack. When you dodge an attack, you receive no damage, but causes you to recoil/flinch from what you were doing. This will probably be ranger’s primary source of defense so load up on it.
END/STA – Endurance or Stamina deals with resistance from stats effects.
DFP – DDeals with how much damage you take from an physical .
MST – Deals with how much damage you take from an enemy.



[Race/Gender for Ranger]

Male vs. Female: As you see above, Males have Higher HP, ATP, and ATA than females, making them the better choice for offensive Ranger. On the flip side, females have higher DFP, EVP, and TAP making them better choices for a defensive Ranger.

Casts: Top choice for Rangers. Casts both have high ATA and ATP which Rangers aim for. Also have a decent amount of HP and DFP that helps with taking damage. And for icing on the cake, they have SUVs which are usually very large guns that deal large amounts of damage. Also, Casts get bonuses for being Ranger or Fortegunner.
Newmen: Second best choice for Ranger. They have high ATA but low ATP and HP. Have the Highest EVP out of all races so this will help with dodging damage. Also Newmans get bonuses for being Guntecher so keep that in mind.
Humans: Third best choice for Ranger. Humans do not excel at anything, but they are average: Moderate ATA, Moderate ATP, Moderate HP etc etc… However, they get bonuses from being hybrid classes which makes them ideal for Guntecher.
Beasts: Least favored choices for Ranger. Very low ATA, but have very high ATP. Nanoblast could help out the cause here. They have high HP and DFP so picking a beast will yield interesting results.


[Ranger-Type Classes]

Ranger: No requirements
The basic gun-user class. They begins to start using range weapons, but not all. They are also very limited on melee ability. One of the only classes to use Traps. Stats and Weapons they can use online/offline differ.[/list]
B: Rifles, Shotguns, Twin Handguns, Handguns, Machineguns
C: Spears, Saber, Daggers[/list]

Fortegunner: Requires: Lv10 Ranger
The Expert Class of Ranger. They can use every type of gun and have compatibility of S Rank with most of them. Fortegunner also gets bonus on PP and Bullet efficency.
S: Rifle, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher, Laser Cannon, Handgun
A: Spear, Saber, Dagger, Twin Handguns, Crossbow, Mechgun

Figunner: Requires: Lv5 Hunter, Lv3 Ranger
Hybrid of of Hunter/Ranger. They focus heavy on melee weapons while using a few ranged weapons. Excel in quick melee weapon and have S Rank compatibility with a few. Have the exclusive usage of Double Saber.
S: Double Saber, Twin Saber, Saber, Twin Dagger, Dagger
A: Sword, Fists, Spear, Twin Claw, Claw, Twin Handguns, Handgun, Crossbow, Mechgun

Guntecher: Requires: Lv5 Ranger, lv 3 Force
Hybrid of Ranger/Force. They focus more on ranged weapons while using magic to support/damage. Guntecher excels in support. A few S Rank ranged weapon and has access to use magic and wands.[/list]
S: Twin Handguns, Handgun, Crossbow, Mechgun
A: Saber, Dagger, Rifle, Shotgun, Long Bow, Laser, Card, Wand

Protranser Requires: Lv 5 Ranger, Force, and Hunter
Protransers are known as Trap Masters. Protransers get 75% bonus from traps. They have a bit of everything from all of the other classes and versatile in weapon types.
A: Sword, Fists, Spear, Axe, Saber, Shotgun, Long Bow, Grenade Launcher, Laser Cannon, Handgun



[Weapon Analysis by Users ]

Ranged Weapons
Twin Handguns: This is by far one of the most popular weapons as a ranger. They are quick and do decent amount of damage in short period of time. Also, they lay SE quite often although they do not last as long as other gun's SE. Also, they have the best strafing ability than all of the other guns available, so makes tagging and dealing damage alot easier. Ideal for fighting against pretty much any type of mobs including bosses.

Twin/Dual Handguns by Itsuki-chan: Better at delivering status effects, but the status effects don't last quite as long as rifles. Because of enemy def and lower atp online, they probably overall deal roughly the same as rifles. Better vs larger groups of enemies and when status effects and/or mobility are needed.

Rifes: Excellent weapon for Ranger, and namely our trademark weapon. Rifles deals high damage compare to other ranged weapon category. Rifles have a long reach which allows Ranger to stay further away from damage with a short recoil time. Rifles also have a decently large amount of PP and uses very little which allows you to fire more shots. Also, Rifles have the best chance of SE landing on an enemy and has the highest SE level, 4. Ideal for boss fights.

Laser Cannon: One of my favorite weapon so far. Laser Cannon deal one of highest amount of damage out of the ranged weapons so far. It has a large range and can hit multiple enemies in a linear formation or next to each other. Major downfalls to this weapon is the PP cost of each shot, it shoots slow, and the recoil time. Alternative for boss fights or crowds.

Shotgun: Another one of my favorites. People overlook this weapon because they want to see higher amount of damage. Shotguns deals low amount of damage, but in exchange it spreads across the screen with 3 bullets (4 or more if Bullet is high) hitting multiple enemies and causing them to flinch. Also, if you are close enough, you can hit the same enemy multiple times in one shot adding up damage and giving more chance for SEs to be applied. Very ideal for crowd control.

Shotgun by Itsuki-chan: Really isn't bad, I just started using one. It doesn't deal anywhere near what dualies or rifles will deal until the PA is 11+. Good for sperading a status effect, good for inflicting a status effect on a single enemy reliably (by point blanking it). Damage... not all there. Infact, at lower levels, you may be pushing your luck to deal any damage at all with it. And you need to atleast deal damage to tag.

Shotgun by Dusk21 (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=120501&forum=22&start=285&300#295): Click the link next to this. This is a very detailed post about Shotgun and its bullets. Kudos to the post.

Crossbow: Highly misunderstood and underestimated weapon. People thought of this as a slower version of a handgun, but in reality, they are a Spread Needle reincarnated (mini shotgun in other words). When Crossbow's bullets reach lv 11 or higher, they get an addition spread to their shot maxing out at 3 per shot. Very useful because not only the spread, but the fact that it is an offhand which means you can use a main hand weapon (Dagger or Sword).

Longbows: Another favorite weapon of mine. Bows have very high ATP and ATA thus dealing high amount of damage. It also has a very far reach allowing you to attack from a safe distance. Bows have a large PP pool which allows the user to make the most of it. Furthermore, it can be used to pound an enemy if you aim correctly. In FP view, you can adjust your shoot while you are firing allowing more manual accuracy. One thing that people probably didn’t notice either is bow’s shoots penetrate enemies meaning that no matter where it hits, it pretty much does the same about of damage. Downside to the bow is its very stationary and it has a short load time before it is fired. Idea for stationary situations and boss fights.

Cards (aka Fans/Slicer) by Itsuki-chan: Its kinda fun to use. Full strafing ability, ATP is basically equal to duallies, but I think the PA increases it more significantly and the elemental damage is alot higher. I know for a fact the elemental damage is high. 1st tier dualies is 4% elemental, 1st tier card is 17% elemental.

Melee
Dagger/Offhand combo: I personally like this combo. Daggers are quick and do decent damage in a short amount of time, allowing me to get in and out when need to . The Handgun is good for making enemies flinch while you are getting close to or away from an enemy as well. If you a Bullets like Electric or Ice, it allows you to stop enemies in place or actions giving you more time to do what you need. Only downfall here is the damage. Another variation to this is Dagger/Mechgun. Mechgun works the same here as Handgun; it attacks faster allowing more damage and SEs over time than Handgun, but the PP usage can be a bit high and can not go First Person view to aim. Another Choice is Dagger/Crossbow. Crossbows deal high amount of damage and applies SEs pretty well. It also spreads to up to 3 shots. Bad side here is the recoil time.

Saber/Offhand combo: Pretty much the same as Dagger. It have a decent speed and deals a good amount of damage in 3 hits. The PA Rising Strike can knock the enemy up in the air, allowing you to shoot them safely or switch weapons. See Dagger/Offhand above for the Offhand choice.

Spears: Rarely used Melee weapon althought its quite useful. It has quite a distance reach and it attacks up to two enemies in a linear position or multiple parts of an enemy. Very useful if you want to save bullets and on bosses and enemies that have multiple targets.


[Weapon Comparisions]

Handgun vs Mechgun by Itsuki-chan: Online, if you're not overleveled for an area, mechguns most likely won't deal more than 20-30 a hit. Considering the FO next to you is going to be dealing 300-400, they tickle. Of course, a handgun isn't going to deal more than 70-80 either. So they both kinda tickle. Handgun is more reliable for damage, mechgun is more reliable for status effects. Niether one really runs out of PP unless you sit there and spam it all day.

Dagger vs. Saber by Itsuki-chan: Saber is more party oriented since it more reliably launches. Its good mob control. Dagger on the other hand is more damage, but doesn't reliably stun anything. Its best used on big monsters and mini-bosses that don't launch or don't launch reliably. Also, when soloing, dagger is probably the weapon of choice.

Bows vs. Rifle by Rizen: Both have SE 4. Bows have higher ATP and ATA while Rifles are faster. Bows are awesome in stationary situations like boss fights and hallways, but majority of the time you do not have the pleasure to stay still. Rifles are great because you can fire on the move and stay stationary if need be. The bow's stats and initial damage are indeed higher but the overall damage between the two evens out over time with firing.


[About Bullet Photon Art]

Each ranged weapon type has 6 element Bullets (Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, Light, Dark). Bullets are what give ranged weapons their punch. Bullets add SEs to ranged weapons. As Bullet levels get higher, it changes the way shots are fired from ranged weapons. In most cases, the SE level and damage % is increased, but in specialshotgun's and crossbow's case, it adds an addition shot to the spread.

All Bullets have separate levels so one element level from a weapon type will not transfer to another weapon type's element. For example, if you buy a Electric Bullet disk for a Shotgun and level it, it wont level up your Electric Bullet for your Handgun or other ranged weapons. So you have to spend time leveling up each weapon type's element bullet. Its kinda like PA skills. Bullet PAs level at different rates from weapon to weapon.

Also, Bullet elements can be switched out at anytime, so they are not bounded to be one element type like melee weapons are condemned to.


[Bullets based on Level]
Rangers are dependant upon Elemental bonuses from their Photon Art Bullet and the weapon type. Bullet Photon Arts differs and upgrades at levels 1, 11, 21, and 30. Note that this is different from offline.


[Traps]
Traps are probrably over looked because of the price and the number you can hold. They are very useful for crowd control and applying SEs.

How to Set Traps (A2K): When you wish to set traps, you assign them to the "item" column of your action palette, along with healing items and the like.
When you select these traps on the battlefield, you will de-equip your current weapons and go into a "trap setting" mode.
Press Down Arrow/Square/X to set up to three traps on the ground. You may not set any more until the ones currently set have been detonated. In Network Mode there seems to be a bit of a delay in placing them after hitting the button, probably due to network latency. It would probably help to anticipate this.
If you've set "G" type traps, press Right Arrow/Triangle/Y to detonate them.
If you move out of trap setting mode by either re-equipping your weapons or switching to a different type of trap before they have detonated, they will disappear and you will lose them forever.
You may set traps during boss battles, although one would question whether or not they would be all that effective.




[PP Management]

One question that’s been asked a lot is how do Rangers fare with PP on guns. Well, Rangers can use an extensive amount of PP over a course of time, but not a huge problem. As long as you don’t spam bullets all the time, you shouldn’t run out of PP quickly.

Here are some ways you can do to manage PP: Buy Photon Charges at the Green stores for 500 meseta. These come in handy if you completely run out of PP for all weapon. They stack in 10 so use them wisely.
Carry multiple weapons. Its a common strategy to save PP. You basically rotate usages of weapons to keep a steady PP rate.
Relax. Overtime, PP will refill itself. If you wait a bit you will get quite a bit of PP back allowing you to continue firing.
Aim wisely. Sometimes enemies have weak spots that will allow you to do 50% more damage that than normal.
Use melee weapons. If you use melee weapons, this will save you from having to use your guns PP. Also if you have a gun on your offhand, it will recover PP as you use your melee weapon.
Don't spam bullets needlessly. Most rangers get a bit trigger happy when it comes to fighting. If you see that you are dealing low damage with a gun on a certain mob, you might want to switch to a melee weapon for the time being, then switch back to gun.


[Keeping up with Damage as a Ranger]
People constantly keep saying Ranger’s damage is worthless, but this is far from true. Yes, we do not deal high bursts of damage, but our damage is nothing to squeeze at. Rangers just have to do a bit more than other classes to keep up with damage.
Level your bullets. Every time a bullet levels, you gun’s ATP and ATA increases allowing you to deal more damage and become more accurate by a certain % . Also at lv 11 and lv 21 the % element on the gun will change.
Level a variety of Elements. Enemies comes 6 elements (not counting neutral). By using the oppose element of the enemy, you can deal up to double your normal amount of damage.
Grind weapons. Yes, very dirty and risky business here, but very worthwhile. With enough grinding, a weapon’s ATP can exceed a weapon 3 or more starts higher than it.
Know your enemy. Enemies have weakness that are waiting to be exploited, or a strength waiting to destroy you. Some enemies have high resistance to ranged weapons so you might have to switch to a melee weapon to higher damage.
Apply Damage over time (DoTs) debuffs. These do damage according to % of an enemies life.
Use Virus, Poison and Burn Traps on high HP enemies. In higher rank missions, enemies tend to have very high HP and high defense making them harder to take down. Also, applying SEs become difficult at times because you need a certain level of SE in order for it to be applied. These traps instantly apply and last for a good amount of time.


[Other classes through the Eye of a Ranger]
Hunter: This is your basic melee class. They excel in close combat using a variety of weapons. Where does this fit in with Ranger? Well, Rangers have 3 basic melee weapons they can use: Dagger, Saber, and Spear. If you choose to switch to hunter, you should focus on these three and maybe Twin Daggers unless you are choosing Figunner, in which case you can focus on as many as you want. You will also have access to a Handgun so you can still them to lv10. As far as PA skills, choose what you are comfortable with. Just keep in perspective your path in the future.

Force: Your everyday magic caster. They excel in range combat with powerful magic called Technics. Anything for Ranger? Forces have exclusive use of Bows, a ranged weapon, out of the three basic classes. If you are choosing to Protranser or Guntecher, you might want to invest sometime in leveling this up. Also, depending on what class are going for, you choice of Technics will vary. If Protranser, you probably will only need a Reverser and Resta and use of Bow. If Guntecher, you are more flexible, but still need balance. Resta and Reverser are high priority. Next buffs and debuffs will play key factors in a life for a Guntecher, so invest in those when they become available. And you can get 3 or 4 nukes for magic attacks, Diga being a favorite.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-11-25 11:20 ]</font>

BeeYee
Oct 4, 2006, 08:35 PM
I LOVE RANGERS. What does offhand mean though? You can also do first person shooting. You forgot mechguns or machine guns. How do they do damage over time?

Banert
Oct 4, 2006, 08:35 PM
What about mechguns? I know they're not supposed to be good, but can't rangers use them?

princejake2
Oct 4, 2006, 08:37 PM
Off hand is left. Like Saber + Gun. They can inflict burn and other effects that will do damage over time, or you can freeze, etc.

Rizen
Oct 4, 2006, 08:37 PM
Whoops! Forgot that, Im kinda posting that in a middle of a mission so I know I missed alot/misadded of weapons.
Keep correcting me so I wont have people mixed up.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-21 11:40 ]</font>

Parn
Oct 4, 2006, 08:41 PM
Mechguns seem to handle like they did in PSO from what I've seen, though I haven't used them myself. They carry little ATP much like their PSO counterparts and drain photon points quickly, and so initial reactions to them are entirely negative. Due to the recent status effect nerf, their role is even more difficult to establish.

This is based on online mode, of course. They may start to shine later on when players have more ATP by default, or when forces get access to status buff/debuff techniques, but for the time being, they really aren't worth it.

Shiro_Ryuu
Oct 4, 2006, 08:52 PM
I know this is extra mode but I haven't had a problem with the machine guns when playing as my RAnewearl, I just use a saber or a dagger in the main hand along with the machine gun, that way I can fight back while my machine gun's PP charges up. IMO machine guns are pretty sweet.

Rizen
Oct 4, 2006, 08:58 PM
You should probably listen to Parn on this one since hes online and I am offline. I will update my post to account for this.

Now that I am done with my mission, theres something I would like to ask thoughts on this.
One problem I hate most is the fact that I'm constantly changing my bullet types to help with the situation. I have gotten pretty quick with going into menu, going to weapon, and changing bullet type, but thats rather slow regardless how fast you can do it. Recently I started to buy doubles or lower level versions of weapons to place different types of bullets on them(ex I have my S Rank Shotgun on Ice and a C Rank Shotgun with Fire or electric depending) so I would have to go into the menu every single time I want to use a different bullet. Is there another way to change bullets that I havent learned about or a better way to deal with this?

foamcup
Oct 4, 2006, 09:05 PM
On 2006-10-04 18:52, Shiroryuu wrote:
I know this is extra mode but I haven't had a problem with the machine guns when playing as my RAnewearl, I just use a saber or a dagger in the main hand along with the machine gun, that way I can fight back while my machine gun's PP charges up. IMO machine guns are pretty sweet.



Agreed. You can move while firing, and they recharge at a decent rate. I've mowed down groups of enemies with a single charge. I know I won't be doing that online, but I still think they are pretty nice. I hated mechguns on PSO, but on this game, they are not bad. I've been thinking of being a Ranger again. Haven't played one since DC ver. 1. 300 hours to get to level 100, ah good times.

foamcup
Oct 4, 2006, 09:10 PM
On 2006-10-04 18:58, Rizen wrote:
You should probably listen to Parn on this one since hes online and I am offline. I will update my post to account for this.

Now that I am done with my mission, theres something I would like to ask thoughts on this.
One problem I hate most is the fact that I'm constantly changing my bullet types to help with the situation. I have gotten pretty quick with going into menu, going to weapon, and changing bullet type, but thats rather slow regardless how fast you can do it. Recently I started to buy doubles or lower level versions of weapons to place different types of bullets on them(ex I have my S Rank Shotgun on Ice and a C Rank Shotgun with Fire or electric depending) so I would have to go into the menu every single time I want to use a different bullet. Is there another way to change bullets that I havent learned about or a better way to deal with this?



You know you can carry six weapons on a quick select bar right? Keep a couple rifles (or whatever your weapon of choice is) on there with different elements. Much easier to switch it up.

A2K
Oct 4, 2006, 09:12 PM
I find I can quickly shock a mob of weaker enemies with a mechgun equipped with an electric bullet. It doesn't last particularly long, but it can make a difference to any Hunters in the thick of it.

In addition, the use of traps (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=120181&forum=20&9) is totally exclusive to Rangers in Network Mode at the moment.

foamcup
Oct 4, 2006, 09:26 PM
On 2006-10-04 19:12, A2K wrote:
I find I can quickly shock a mob of weaker enemies with a mechgun equipped with an electric bullet. It doesn't last particularly long, but it can make a difference to any Hunters in the thick of it.



That's slick. Ima go try that out.

Rizen
Oct 4, 2006, 09:26 PM
On 2006-10-04 19:10, foamcup wrote:
You know you can carry six weapons on a quick select bar right? Keep a couple rifles (or whatever your weapon of choice is) on there with different elements. Much easier to switch it up.


Thats what i said lol

foamcup
Oct 4, 2006, 09:31 PM
On 2006-10-04 19:26, Rizen wrote:


On 2006-10-04 19:10, foamcup wrote:
You know you can carry six weapons on a quick select bar right? Keep a couple rifles (or whatever your weapon of choice is) on there with different elements. Much easier to switch it up.


Thats what i said lol



*reads again*

Lol, wow, my eyes skipped over that part, sorry.

Rizen
Oct 4, 2006, 09:49 PM
Np. I updated the first post a bit.
Do give more opinions about different weapons rangers use.

Again correct me if I am wrong.
Knife/Handgun combo: I personally like this combo. Knives are quick and do decent damage in a short amount of time, allowing me to get in and out when I need to get upclose. The icing on the cake here is the PA that knocks the enemy back. The Handgun is good for making enemies flinch while you are getting close to or away from an enemy as well. If you a Bullets like Electric or Ice, it allows you to stop enemies in place or actions giving you more time to do what you need. Only downfall here is the damage.

Rifes: Excellent weapon for Ranger, and namely our trademark weapon. Rifes deal the second highest damage from the ranged weapon category. Rifles have a long reach which allows Ranger to stay further away from damage with a short recoil time. Rifles also have a decently large amount of PP and uses very little which allows you to fire more shots. Also, Rifles have the best chance of SE landing on an enemy.

Laser Cannon: My favorite weapon so far. Laser Cannon deal the highest amount of damage out of the ranged weapons so far. It has a large range and can hit multiple enemies in a linear formation or next to each other. Major downfalls to this weapon is the PP cost of each shot and the recoil time.

Thats my thoughts for now.

Jade4r5
Oct 4, 2006, 09:57 PM
when you level up bullets do you have to level each element for each weapon or do you just level like rifle bullets ,hand gun bullets, etc.

Rizen
Oct 4, 2006, 10:03 PM
On 2006-10-04 19:57, Jade4r5 wrote:
when you level up bullets do you have to level each element for each weapon or do you just level like rifle bullets ,hand gun bullets, etc.

Yep, each weapon has a seperate disk for bullet element type.
I think I will make more sense if I explain in an example. So if you buy a Electric Bullet disk for a Shotgun, it wont level up your Electric Bullet for your Handgun or other ranged weapons. So you have to spend time leveling up each weapon type's element bullet. Its kinda like PA arts. Theres about 6 elements for each Ranged Weapon (Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, Dark, Light).

Edit: I think I will add this info on the first post, good question!
Edit Again: Updated!


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-04 20:20 ]</font>

foamcup
Oct 4, 2006, 10:37 PM
I'm liking the mechgun/dagger combo. When I get the money for a freeze or shock bullet, I'm going to see how effective it is at stopping the monsters so I can slash them up. The longbow is looking pretty good to me, but I haven't played with it much, so I won't say anything about it yet.

Rifles are nice. I just switch to first-person view and shoot up all the monsters before they get to me, lol. I'm thinking they're great for bosses, but if it's a boss with different areas that can be targeted, then maybe the cannon instead. I'll look at that if I get some time tomorrow.

Rizen
Oct 4, 2006, 10:40 PM
Yeah agreed, Rifles are the best gun in boss fights IMO.
I did try out the Knife/Mechgun a few hrs ago and it works ok...just the PP it uses up is crazy.
But then again...if you use the Knife while it recharges I guess thats good.

Pinha
Oct 4, 2006, 10:55 PM
Are there any ranger videos with Laser Cannons in action out there? I've spotted a few Ranger videos but they only showed rifles/twin handguns/mechguns/combos.

Rizen
Oct 4, 2006, 11:04 PM
Look in my sig for my Album. If you look under videos i made a clip called Speed Run. It shows me using Laser Cannon. My other clips show me using other ranged weapons as well as Laser Cannon here and there, should look at them all.

http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Video/?action=view&current=SpeedRun.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch2

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-04 21:06 ]</font>

TwilightSea
Oct 4, 2006, 11:23 PM
I love Ranger big time but I wonder if I should still play it after the SE nerf or wait until Sega fixes the nerf and play as Hunter until then.

Tycho
Oct 5, 2006, 12:37 AM
Cute Ranger ad. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Ether
Oct 5, 2006, 02:03 AM
On 2006-10-04 20:55, Pinha wrote:
Are there any ranger videos with Laser Cannons in action out there?


I was bored so I made my own (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xtyu-3VkcU4)

A2K
Oct 5, 2006, 02:06 AM
On 2006-10-04 21:23, TwilightSea wrote:
I love Ranger big time but I wonder if I should still play it after the SE nerf or wait until Sega fixes the nerf and play as Hunter until then.


Even with the nerf, they're still much more capable of SE than anyone else--still a good asset against groups of enemies. You might still have a tougher time with the high HP/tank/mini-boss enemies, though, but for me, that's where traps come in.

crazyrobot
Oct 5, 2006, 04:28 AM
I have stupid question about Ranger. Do you have to spend lots of money on ammo for ranger in PSU?

Rizen
Oct 5, 2006, 05:01 AM
From what I heard, its not too bad. Offline you can just keep popping Photon Charges as well as recovering at Photon Cubes or switching weapons. Online I heard theres plenty more Photon Cubes but with a higher price, how much more I do not now. My suggestion is to get as many guns as you can.



On 2006-10-04 22:37, Tycho wrote:
Cute Ranger ad. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Thanks!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-05 03:06 ]</font>

physic
Oct 5, 2006, 07:35 AM
i think people compare mech guns to pso mechs, these ones are offhand weaps only, so they should be compared only to handguns and xbows. from what ive seen they can do more dmgin less time. the probelm is they run out fast, but they recharge fast, to me the real advantage of all dual wield is teh ability to use one while th eother recharges. basically if your using machine gun, your going to use you dagger/sword a lot, and get access to non pp use attacks and PAs. so it probably has its uses, just not all the time.

darthplagis
Oct 5, 2006, 01:35 PM
yeah the mech seems an ok off hand but not a wepon i would choose to specialize in, maybe it was made for the force off hand (howmany forces had that S rank mech with either TP drain or EXP drain in PSO?) as it does do a decent amount of damage in a short time perfect for up close where techs would be more likley to miss due to lock on, being so close and casting times.

Rizen
Oct 5, 2006, 01:58 PM
Haha, yeah I remember on my first I had special made Mechguns to get TP back. I doubt it was made for a force tho.
I personally hardly used Dual Handgun because I thought the PP cost might be too much to be helpful, I might try it out later today.

Also I added this chart from PSUPedia to my post:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/rangerwepusable.jpg

Scirrocco
Oct 5, 2006, 02:04 PM
Wait... what the heck is a grenade launcher? Is that confimed in the game?

Rizen
Oct 5, 2006, 02:07 PM
I believe it is confirmed, Espio and Nisshoku both made posts about it and showed a pic of what seemed to be a grenade launcher in the usable weapon menu. As of right now it is not available.
Look here for more details: http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=120512&forum=20&81

Pinha
Oct 5, 2006, 02:36 PM
On 2006-10-05 11:58, Rizen wrote:
Also I added this chart from PSUPedia to my post:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/rangerwepusable.jpg



Am I seeing things or does that chart says Rangers can't use laser cannons? Theres a "X" right next to it.

Edit: Thanks rizen and ether for the excellent videos.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pinha on 2006-10-05 12:37 ]</font>

watashiwa
Oct 5, 2006, 02:38 PM
I guess Rangers won't be "CHARGIN' THEIR LAZERS" then..

Rizen
Oct 5, 2006, 02:38 PM
Np, and i didnt notice that...
I guess Laser Cannon is for Expert Rangers, can anyone confirm Rangers cant use Laser Cannons online?

As for the ammo thing, yeah PP kinda functions as ammo, but it refills over time.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-05 12:39 ]</font>

Ryogen
Oct 5, 2006, 02:38 PM
Some nice infomation, I didn't know there was ammo in PSU.

Rizen
Oct 5, 2006, 07:38 PM
I been messing around with Mechguns, and I have to say its actually not as bad as I thought. PP regenerates pretty quick on it and the multiple bullets do help with applying SEs. Also if you use the PP regen on the extra slot you hardly have to worry about waiting for PP to comes back, just melee for a few secs and continue firing.
If anyone wants a clip made I will be glad to show it.

DaveOnrefni
Oct 5, 2006, 07:56 PM
Question about the shotguns: Do the multiple shots hit a single enemy if close enough? (say, multiple hits of 60-ish damage)

And another about the mechguns- are they sustained fire or a certian amout of shots per burst? I couldn't tell from a few of the videos

Rizen
Oct 5, 2006, 08:00 PM
For shotguns, yes they do hit the enemies multiple times if you are upclose, but not all the time. I have a clip of me using S Rank Shotgun in my album. Look in the video section in my sig.

As for mechguns, you have to hold down the button in order to keep it firing, so its not like the PSO where you press it once and it splashes out shots.

Edit: I think this one shows the shotgun being used the best out of my clips:
http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Video/?action=view&current=TRunPart2.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch5

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-05 18:03 ]</font>

DaveOnrefni
Oct 5, 2006, 08:17 PM
Sweet, thanks for the answer(s) man! I saw the video but I wasn't so sure if I was seeing it right =P Maybe I'll see you and other Rangers from here out there once PSU is out.

Thanks again, good hunting.

Rizen
Oct 5, 2006, 08:20 PM
Np and glad to be of help.

Siege
Oct 5, 2006, 11:30 PM
Wassup people,

I'm definitely gonna be playing a ranger, most likely the guntecher. I am curious as to how the TAP will play into the dmg of some of their attacks. I realize that ATP is what determines the strength of bullets, but is it possible that TAP determines the strength of traps? The reason I ask is because the fortegunner and protranser both seem to have a decent amt. of TAP at lv one. From what I gather, the protranser's stats are pretty weak, similar to that of the forteforce. However, base TAP is higher than most of his other stats. As for the fortegunner, his TAP is higher than ATP, and is actually close to the guntecher's. My question is what do fortegunners and protransers need TAP for?

Also, I heard somewhere that the longbow may use TAP on its PA's. Is this true? I suppose I could see the logic in this seeing as how they are primarily force weapons.

Siege
Oct 5, 2006, 11:36 PM
Also, I gathered my statistical info. from that screenshot detailing the expert classes that was recently released. I just blew it up w/ paint, lol! I can post each expert class and its lv 1 stats if anyone is interested.

Rizen
Oct 6, 2006, 01:43 PM
To be honest, i think that TAP (or TP in english version I believe) has no use for for Rangers. I could be wrong. But for Guntecher is going to be a big issue if you want to be able to use more magic than guns.
Bows are suppose to be meant for Forces, so yeah I wouldnt doubt that bows rely on TP. Extra mode is far different from online so...I cant go into that.

If you can post stats for Expert Classes at lv 1 go ahead, it would be great.

Moo2u
Oct 6, 2006, 02:14 PM
Anyone else holding out for a special ranger only uber-rare bow that dosen't reply on TP as much? When I saw them, I was really hoping bows would be a ranger only weapon.

Rizen
Oct 6, 2006, 02:30 PM
Rangers have plenty of Ranger only weapons, and Im glad that Force actually has a Ranged weapon just for them (seeing how they are limited of them available). But still....yeah I really hope there is a Bow for Rangers. hell even all to use in the future.

Siege
Oct 7, 2006, 01:47 AM
Well, the main reason I thought that TAP (TP) may come into play is because the TAP stat for the fortegunner was only one less than the guntecher's based on that screen. Not only this, but their TAP is signifcantly higher than the hunter's. If the TP stat does come into play w/ rangers, I'm thinking that maybe it acts as some sort of modifier for bullet PAs. Not accounting for the PAs raw damage, but rather adding a certain percent to its base dmg based on the TAP stat. This would not mean that rangers w/ higher TAP would do more PA dmg, but their PAs would be a higher % increase from their normal attack than those w/ a low TAP rating. This of course is only a theory, and probably not accurate, but it's my best guess for why the ranger would need the TAP stat if they do need it at all.

Since I don't have the game, I can't really test it. But Rizen, could you test this by firing a lv 1 PA w/ a brand new cast ranger, then use the same PA w/ a fresh newman ranger? I know that the cast's PA will be stronger, but I want to compare and see if the % of increase is the same.

Rizen
Oct 7, 2006, 05:27 AM
Hmm...good point, I will try that out later today when I can actually get on my computer. Very good point and I never thought of it like that.
If anyone can test this, they should not just me as well.

I updated the first post with weapon analysis.
Also, if someone can do an analysis on Dual Handguns and someone who is online tell what it is like playing Ranger online (like damage, support, cost of PP, and any problems) would be great .

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-07 03:57 ]</font>

Siege
Oct 7, 2006, 05:29 PM
Ok, here are the stats. Plz note the following...

1. I did not translate these as I cannot read japanese. I just copied down the numbers and placed them in the order that they are seen on psupedia.

2.I blew the screenshot up w/ paint and it was very hard for me to see the values that were listed in blue. I did view the pic in negative which made them easier to see, but these values will be listed w/ a "?" beside them as I am not %100 certain about them. If anyone knows of a way to better see the stats in blue, here's the link: http://psu.rdy.jp/src/up5801.jpg

3. I don't know what race/gender of the character in the screenshot. I'm assuming that it's a human hunter based on its stat distribution.

I basically did this just to give everyone an idea of the stat distribution of each class.

Fortefighter
HP: 112(?)
ATP:52
ATA:19
MST:13
DFP:11
TAP:13 (?)
EVP:5
END:10

Fortegunner
HP: 96 (?)
ATP:32 (?)
ATA:26
MST:15
DFP:4 (?)
TAP:35
EVP:5
END:12

Forteforce
HP: 60 (?)
ATP:20 (?)
ATA:12 (?)
MST:60
DFP:4 (?)
TAP:50
EVP:11
END:10

Fighgunner
HP: 115
ATP:43
ATA:21
MST:16
DFP:6 (?)
TAP:23
EVP:5
END:12

Guntecher
HP: 88 (?)
ATP:32 (?)
ATA:26
MST:39
DFP:4 (?)
TAP:36
EVP:7
END:12

Wartecher
HP: 115
ATP:30 (?)
ATA:15 (?)
MST:41
DFP:6 (?)
TAP:41
EVP:8
END:10

Protranser
HP: 63 (?)
ATP:30 (?)
ATA:13 (?)
MST:15
DFP:4 (?)
TAP:25 (?)
EVP:5
END:10

And there it is folks. Like I said before, I'm not sure about this character's class or race, but this should give you a good idea of the stat distribution of the expert classes. I'm also not totally sure about the stats w/ (?). This was particularly difficult w/ the protranser cuz all of his stats were lower than the hunter's. If anyone can confirm/disprove the blue stats, it would be greatly appreciated.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Siege on 2006-10-07 16:49 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Siege on 2006-10-07 16:53 ]</font>

Rizen
Oct 7, 2006, 05:54 PM
Thanks for the info. You should post that in the expert topic thats seems to be a hit.
I tried the whole TP thing and I didnt see a difference. I think it the debuff dmg is based off enemie's max hp or something. That or the bullet level was different.

Siege
Oct 7, 2006, 06:54 PM
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif^. Sry, I made some typos on the forteforce. Fixed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Rizen
Oct 7, 2006, 06:57 PM
Np.
I would also like the post a vid I just posted in the Screenshot thread. It shows me using SRank Shotgun and Mechs/Dagger.
http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Video/?action=view&current=BlooperRizenvs150.flv
http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Video/?action=view&current=BlooperRizenvs150P2.flv

Kent
Oct 7, 2006, 07:33 PM
What's that technique you're using in that video? Megistal?

Rizen
Oct 7, 2006, 07:47 PM
Yeah, I was using Megistal. Gives you all buffs but you lose HP over time.

DurakkenX
Oct 8, 2006, 01:05 PM
For those of you that are worried about Ranger being useless and for those of you that have played FFXI...

After I played ranger for a bit i realized something. Rangers get a lot of mob attention or what was called hate in FFXI. You may think this is bad because they have low HP, but they also always are drawing their attention and leading to a specific point.

This gave rise to the thought that Rangers are to be played not as just stat support, but also support in other ways.

First off a Ranger when it attacks can cast a stat effect
Secondly it makes a Mob flinch more than it does when a hunter hits from what i've seen, and even if that's not true it doesn't matter.

Now if I'm a hunter this is great because i'm sitting there doing my combo and there is a break in between oh no what am i going to do since the mob can attack me now? Well the ranger hits it before it gets the hit off and my combo proceeds fine without getting hit or needing to dodge.

If the status effect hits that allows me to hit without worry as well and lets a Force aim easier.

thirdly, the ranger stands opposite of the others and shoots. this #1 pulls them off the Force, like a thf controlling hate, as well as away from the Hunter so it doesn't have to worry again about being hit, and #2 it gathers the mobs together in a single point allowing forces to use Ra-technics which preserves PP

So if you think about this a ranger plays like a Red mage thief from FFXI

Also for those of you concerned about PP costs it's been my experience that Ranger costs 1/2 as Force and double Hunter usually to recharge PP.

Itsuki
Oct 8, 2006, 03:38 PM
Also, a little bit more information: After some testing while doing canyon runs yesterday, I came to the realization that Silence and Paralysis can be put on a single enemy at the same time. These are opposing elements and contradicts the earlier belief that opposing elements can not. I pulled it off about 5 times in one canyon run to make sure it wasn't a fluke.

Heres my little additions to your gun opinions in online mode:

Rifle: Good all around. Best on small groups of enemies or when you need range.

Dualies: Better at delivering status effects, but the status effects don't last quite as long as rifles. Because of enemy def and lower atp online, they probably overall deal roughly the same as rifles. Better vs larger groups of enemies and when status effects and/or mobility are needed.

Handgun vs Mechgun: Online, if you're not overleveled for an area, mechguns most likely won't deal more than 20-30 a hit. Considering the FO next to you is going to be dealing 300-400, they tickle. Of course, a handgun isn't going to deal more than 70-80 either. So they both kinda tickle. Handgun is more reliable for damage, mechgun is more reliable for status effects. Niether one really runs out of PP unless you sit there and spam it all day.

Dagger vs Saber: Saber is more party oriented since it more reliably launches. Its good mob control. Dagger on the other hand is more damage, but doesn't reliably stun anything. Its best used on big monsters and mini-bosses that don't launch or don't launch reliably. Also, when soloing, dagger is probably the weapon of choice.

Shotgun: Really isn't bad, I just started using one. It doesn't deal anywhere near what dualies or rifles will deal until the PA is 11+. Good for sperading a status effect, good for inflicting a status effect on a single enemy reliably (by point blanking it). Damage... not all there. Infact, at lower levels, you may be pushing your luck to deal any damage at all with it. And you need to atleast deal damage to tag.

My opinions on weapons to come:
Laser: Damn, that thing looks god aweful slow. Slower than shotguns. And shotguns are already putting you out in the open for getting slapped. Perhaps in situations where you can sit in the back and shoot it might be good, but then again, a ranger's job isn't damage. More shots per second is generally better. I don't think it'd be feasible in most situations.

Launcher: I don't care if it sucks or not, it looks sweet, which means I'm going to have one.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-10-08 18:13 ]</font>

Itsuki
Oct 8, 2006, 03:40 PM
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-10-08 18:13 ]</font>

Kaply
Oct 8, 2006, 04:14 PM
Elemental bonuses for rangers are dependant upon their bullet level and also upon the weapon type. I don't have all of them maxed out only but it seems like they're irrespective of the element of the bullet and they upgrade on x1 level, 1, 11. Note that this is different from offline.

Lv 1 :
Rifle = 6%
Shot = 4%
Dual pistols = 4%

Pistol = 5%
Machinegun = 4%

Lv 11
Dual Pistol = 12%
Pistol = 13%


I'm speculating that Fortegunner may increase the elemental bonuses obtained from bullets.

Rizen
Oct 9, 2006, 05:33 PM
Thanks guys for the post, I will update my first post according to what you just said.

Rizen
Oct 16, 2006, 01:50 PM
Im just bring this topic back in hopes to get more replys and more data....I updated it yesterday and I decided to bump it today.

I really hope this gets added to the floating sticky.

Akaimizu
Oct 16, 2006, 01:59 PM
I love the ranger as well, particularly for the simple reasons I've posted about. I guess I haven't gone as much into exact numbers and such, but more or less seeing the examples of what happens in combat. I'm all about attack-interruption, and the Ranger that I played, seemed to do that better, at low-levels, than my other class playtests.

For some reason, I love the idea of being a Hunter-rescuer, stopping a monster attack on them, at a moment's notice. Of course, the targetting aspects, the dropping of flying monsters, are a nice bonus. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Plus, I have a whole lot of fun straffing with dual handguns. I'm definitely going that route as it kind of feels like being a Space Movie Cowboy of some sort.

Kaply
Oct 16, 2006, 02:56 PM
Adding something about longbows, not sure if this is true for any of the ranger weapons though.

With longbows there's a delayed first shot, however you can fire consecutive shots relatively rapidly. This means that this weapon is better used in sniper mode since sniper mode you can aim it around while still using continuous fire. If you're outside of sniper mode you have to realign yourself and end up suffering from the delayed first shot.

Slightly better way to describe it. While you're shooting the longbow you're grounded and you can shift around to change targets or fire in a different direction. However while in sniper mode you can realign yourself during the firing animation.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kaply on 2006-10-16 13:00 ]</font>

Rizen
Oct 16, 2006, 03:09 PM
I just tried out what you said about the delay for Longbow, and well...I cant say I agree. I fired my Longbow 5 times a volley and I didnt see much difference from the first shot to the last. Then again, could be just me.

As for the aiming of Long bow, its very true and very helpful. If you miss or misfire you can quickly realign your shot to make sure you dont miss.

Kaply
Oct 16, 2006, 03:36 PM
The idea of my post was that you can align your fire while firing, this is as opposed to aligning yourself and then firing. It's faster firing consecutive shots this way.

Nani-chan
Oct 16, 2006, 05:16 PM
Beta Experiences

At first I didn't what I was doing, Starter equipment Ranger seems to be the weaker of the three. I was killing allot slower and not hitting allot of creatures.. So I ended up locking and soloing the lvl1 mission.

Exp and Meseta seemed to come much faster. By lvl 8 I had a 2,000 Meseta Rifle, Shotgun and dual handguns each with freeze shots to around skill lvl 4.

Originally I bought them as Rifle -> Shotgun -> Dual hguns, however my future plan on Psu release will be Dual hguns -> Rifle -> Shotgun. The reason for this is Dhguns both felt to shoot faster and recovered PP faster than rifle. Also as stated by others Dualies with bullets equipped do about same dmg as rifle.

"STRAFE"
This is probably one of the neatest parts of Rng. This is holding "LB button" and moving side to side or backwards, or often in like a sideways 8 pattern. Strafing allows me to tag more enemies ( I like to tag each enemy once for more exp) but more importantly to evade most attacks. Since most enemies attack in a forward lunge sidestepping is awesome.

Unfortuantly I could not find any light or darkness skill bullets in Beta. Also I only tried the freeze bullets. I really wanted to try out Confuse to see if was usefull. I'm guessing maybe Dark or Fire would be better at bosses due to hp dot?

I have some expert job questions, but there is already threads for those.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2006-10-16 15:17 ]</font>

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 16, 2006, 05:51 PM
To note, confuse is TERRIBLE. From my offlie experience, enemies miss eachother most of the time. . . And they still go for the nearest target which is usually you.

Bows work wonders on large enemies with multiple weak points. If you take a bow or shotgun and the bullet hits inbetween two targets, it hits both.

Lasers are good for getting large crouds with a decent effect rate. Very slow but it penetrates and pushes back far enough to run away (If your quick).

Crossbows are disgusting. . . 'nuff said.

Rizen
Oct 16, 2006, 05:53 PM
On 2006-10-16 15:51, Sgt_Shligger wrote:
Crossbows are disgusting. . . 'nuff said.

I disagree, though low level Crossbows do suck. When you do get it higher, it starts to spread (like a shotgun). So you can think of this as a onehanded shotgun.

chrisy05
Oct 16, 2006, 07:00 PM
does anyone know the potential of gernade launchers so far, or have they even come out yet. If they are out exactly how good are they and what they do?

Rizen
Oct 16, 2006, 07:03 PM
They are out but much isnt known about them yet. Theres a few vids of it in the screenshot thread. Heres two I could find.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6654830953626046139&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7639327850672219609&hl=en

chrisy05
Oct 16, 2006, 07:06 PM
im not sure if thats splash damage but it looks like it. If it does do splash damage it seems better than the shot gun...
still i guess they all have there uses

Rizen
Oct 16, 2006, 07:09 PM
I wouldnt say its better than Shotgun. Grenade Launcher is alot harder to aim and its splash damage is in a small concentrated area while Shotguns splashs far and wide. Grenade Launcher might do more dmg but its aim. Plus if you shoot point blank with a shotgun, you can hit enemies multiple times.

chrisy05
Oct 16, 2006, 08:01 PM
crap your right, the thing shoots in an arc. All of a sudden shot gun seems usefull again... yet, now that i think about it, i believe the shotgun gets to shoot 4 shots when u have a lv 10 bullet or higher on it, guess it'd be good to have one.
Fortegunner all the way!

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 16, 2006, 08:04 PM
Crossbows spread? Does it owrk like hte shotguns spread (lvl1-3shots, lvl11-4shots, lvl21-5shots)?

Can I get a picture of it shooting three way?

Jools
Oct 16, 2006, 08:58 PM
I have a question: What exactly was changed about rangers in the last batch of content?

Rizen
Oct 16, 2006, 09:06 PM
As for the crossbow, I will have to post a pic tomorrow when I am on my computer.
As for the Ranger changes, here they are:
-Changed the success rate of Status effect shots from Ranger Type characters
-Adjusted PP recovery speed for gun type weapons for Ranger type characters

Source (For all add,changes, and fixes):
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=121214&forum=20&34

Jools
Oct 16, 2006, 09:18 PM
Thanks Rizen, but did they change them for the better, or for the worse?

TwilightSea
Oct 16, 2006, 11:04 PM
From what I heard, the adjustments are for the better. I'm just used to hearing the word 'adjustment' and my brain thinks 'nerf!'

chrisy05
Oct 16, 2006, 11:39 PM
yeah people have been talking about bad (or nerfed) adjustments lately.
stil aside from that, the fortegunner class seems bulletproof!

Jools
Oct 17, 2006, 12:57 AM
Yeah, people are simultaneously talking about nerfs and improvements. I'm confused!

Rizen
Oct 17, 2006, 03:26 AM
I think the patch before is the one you are thinking about. They reduced Ranger's chances of applying SEs.
But the current patch, they set it higher so that Rangers have an easier time applying SEs.

Hope that helps.

Ryogen
Oct 17, 2006, 03:37 AM
Thanks for leting me use your guide. I don't care what PSO world says...it's great.

Rizen
Oct 17, 2006, 02:12 PM
I just made a topic on my thoughts about Fans and Grenade Launchers based on what I saw and know from other types of guns. Check it out.
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=121800&forum=20&0

Also, I made this clip showing how useful Crossbows are.
http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Video/?action=view&current=CrossbowSpread.flv

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-17 14:13 ]</font>

chrisy05
Oct 17, 2006, 06:43 PM
isnt there some chart showing the % of a bullet doing status effect for each weapon?

Rizen
Oct 17, 2006, 06:55 PM
Theres one on PSUPedia being worked on...only shows Rifle and Handgun only i think.
http://psupedia.org/index.php?title=Bullets

Also a quick copy paste from the other topic.

Here is a comparison of S Rank Shotgun Vs S Rank Crossbow.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Images/SRankShotgunvsCrossbow.jpg

Besides Stats, differences are Shotgun is two-handed with a 5 max spread, and Crossbow is one-handed(offhand) with a 3 max spread.

Nani-chan
Oct 17, 2006, 06:56 PM
Crossbow is kinda cool, reminds me of the spread needle.

FenixStryk
Oct 17, 2006, 07:08 PM
Is the crossbow supposed to be better in every way? That's what I've gathered from the pics, besides the 3-spread instead of 5-spread.
Also, can you strafe and shoot at the same time w/ a crossbow?

Rizen
Oct 17, 2006, 07:16 PM
In a way, crossbow is the reincarnation of Spread Needle.
Yeah, you can strafe while using Crossbow. And, crossbow isnt better in everyway tho. Shotguns have quite a bit more PP than Crossbow and that extra 2 spreads really help when dealing with multiple enemies. Also I 'think' that Shotgun might have a better SE apply rate than Crossbow.

FenixStryk
Oct 17, 2006, 07:34 PM
Well, now that I know that, I know for a fact I'm going Guntecher. Sure, it hs less PP and less bullets/shot, but the strafe-and-shoot capabilities more than compensate.

Flamingo99
Oct 17, 2006, 08:03 PM
Rizen, you might want to change the S Rank you put for Crossbows, Machine Guns, and Twin Handguns to an A Rank. Check it out http://synbios.net/games/PSU/fortegunner.jpg

I found this in Parn's topic found here http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=121267&forum=20&144.

FenixStryk
Oct 17, 2006, 08:06 PM
On 2006-10-17 18:03, Flamingo99 wrote:Rizen, you might want to change the S Rank you put for Crossbows, Machine Guns, and Twin Handguns to an A Rank. Check it out:http://synbios.net/games/PSU/fortegunner.jpg
(I found this in Parn's topic found here http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=121267&forum=20&144 )He's right. Guntechers are the ones that major in Twin Handguns, Crossbows and Mechguns. You might want to fix that.

Rizen
Oct 17, 2006, 08:11 PM
I grabbed it from PSUPedia before Parn posted that so alot of things are wrong there...I will fix that.
I was messing with a new format with laying out lists and well I just kinda did a highlight copy paste realign deal thing so I didnt double check things.
I might add Figunner in too if Im not too tired.

FenixStryk
Oct 17, 2006, 08:18 PM
On 2006-10-17 18:11, Rizen wrote: I grabbed it from PSUPedia before Parn posted that so alot of things are wrong there...I will fix that.
I was messing with a new format with laying out lists and well I just kinda did a highlight copy paste realign deal thing so I didnt double check things.
I might add Figunner in too if Im not too tired.LOL, Figunner. Calling that a Ranger class is like calling a CAST Guntecher a Force. It's just not right. Of course, more info is always nice. Do it if you realy, really want to.

Rizen
Oct 17, 2006, 08:30 PM
On 2006-10-17 18:18, FenixStryk wrote:
LOL, Figunner. Calling that a Ranger class is like calling a CAST Guntecher a Force. It's just not right. Of course, more info is always nice. Do it if you realy, really want to.

Actually, in order to be a Figunner you do have to play Ranger up to level 3 don't you? They are a class derived from Ranger, thusly making them a Ranger class. Plus, they do use guns so Im adding them for that interest.

Btw I updated the first post.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-17 18:41 ]</font>

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 17, 2006, 09:28 PM
You really can't compare a shotgun to a crossbow. Whenever you compare an offhand weapon to a two hand weapon, you have to take into account the fact that offhand weapons come with right hand melee weapons.

chrisy05
Oct 17, 2006, 09:40 PM
On 2006-10-17 16:55, Rizen wrote:
Theres one on PSUPedia being worked on...only shows Rifle and Handgun only i think.
http://psupedia.org/index.php?title=Bullets

Also a quick copy paste from the other topic.

Here is a comparison of S Rank Shotgun Vs S Rank Crossbow.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Images/SRankShotgunvsCrossbow.jpg

Besides Stats, differences are Shotgun is two-handed with a 5 max spread, and Crossbow is one-handed(offhand) with a 3 max spread.




whoa so if im reading that picture right, it looks like the crossbow has 211 more atp than that shotgun o.0
btw whats the number under the attk number?

Rizen
Oct 17, 2006, 09:48 PM
On 2006-10-17 19:28, Sgt_Shligger wrote:
You really can't compare a shotgun to a crossbow. Whenever you compare an offhand weapon to a two hand weapon, you have to take into account the fact that offhand weapons come with right hand melee weapons.


Well, true, but Im just showing how Crossbow stacks up against a Shotgun as a ranged weapon. The right hand melee weapon is just a plus to Crossbow over Shotgun.

Oh, and the second numbers is Accuracy.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-17 19:49 ]</font>

chrisy05
Oct 17, 2006, 10:36 PM
hmm maybe ill stick an ice bullet to the shot gun for hopes of massive freazing

Itsuki
Oct 18, 2006, 07:33 AM
freeze chance is really low, even with 5 shots, it doesn't happen too often. You used to be able to do 1 burst of 5 and reliably have 1 thing frozen, not you'll only get 1 thing frozen in like 4 bursts. I find that paralysis works far better on it.

Also, those S-rank numbers are for offline, so you can't really compare them. Everything online has noticably less atp than that.

Online comparison:
8 star Shotgun ATP: 100 ATA: 122
8 star Crossbow ATP: 275 ATA: 141

Shotguns also fire slower and you can't strafe while firing shotguns but can while firing crossbows. Crossbows online do not go through monsters, and each bullet can only hit one monster. It can be point blanked, but I don't think it gets the higher number of hits when point blanking like shotgun does.

AngelLight
Oct 18, 2006, 09:22 AM
Very nice work on the crossbow info.

Aion_Clyuve
Oct 18, 2006, 09:49 AM
Quick question. Can you get the Launcher weapon type in Extra mode?

Mag_Launcher
Oct 18, 2006, 10:09 AM
On 2006-10-18 05:33, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Crossbows online do not go through monsters, and each bullet can only hit one monster. It can be point blanked, but I don't think it gets the higher number of hits when point blanking like shotgun does.


I don't recall them going through enemies at all, even offline. But they're supposed to hit the same enemy with all 3 if you're close enough, even though sometimes the damage number LOOKS like only one hit them.

Rizen
Oct 18, 2006, 05:37 PM
On 2006-10-18 05:33, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Also, those S-rank numbers are for offline, so you can't really compare them. Everything online has noticably less atp than that.

Online comparison:
8 star Shotgun ATP: 100 ATA: 122
8 star Crossbow ATP: 275 ATA: 141


Just because it is offline doesnt mean they cant be compared. Even if the stats are different online, the basics stand: Crossbows have more ATP and ATA than Shotgun. Also I looked at the stats of some 6 Shotguns and Crossbows offline and they come pretty close to those stats taht you posted there (AP was off just a bit less or more but the ATA was much different, but Crossbows still had more).



Shotguns also fire slower and you can't strafe while firing shotguns but can while firing crossbows. Crossbows online do not go through monsters, and each bullet can only hit one monster. It can be point blanked, but I don't think it gets the higher number of hits when point blanking like shotgun does.


I tried the point blank with Crossbows and it seemed not to work like a Shotgun, so thats someting Shotgun has over Crossbow.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-18 15:39 ]</font>

Itsuki
Oct 18, 2006, 06:02 PM
If you watch the video someone else posted of crossbows, you can distinctly see the bullets going through monsters much like bows do offline. But neither bows nor crossbows do that online.

chrisy05
Oct 18, 2006, 06:21 PM
On 2006-10-18 05:33, Itsuki-chan wrote:
freeze chance is really low, even with 5 shots, it doesn't happen too often. You used to be able to do 1 burst of 5 and reliably have 1 thing frozen, not you'll only get 1 thing frozen in like 4 bursts. I find that paralysis works far better on it.

Also, those S-rank numbers are for offline, so you can't really compare them. Everything online has noticably less atp than that.

Online comparison:
8 star Shotgun ATP: 100 ATA: 122
8 star Crossbow ATP: 275 ATA: 141

Shotguns also fire slower and you can't strafe while firing shotguns but can while firing crossbows. Crossbows online do not go through monsters, and each bullet can only hit one monster. It can be point blanked, but I don't think it gets the higher number of hits when point blanking like shotgun does.


hmm i guess u have point, stil itd be nice if i can see the % chance for Status affect of shotgun.
Ill just stick my ice bullets to my rifle then. That way i have a more guranteed chance of freezing.
Btw would paralysis be the Lighning element? because thats the type of bullet i had equiped in my shotgun.

Rizen
Oct 18, 2006, 06:23 PM
On 2006-10-18 16:02, Itsuki-chan wrote:
If you watch the video someone else posted of crossbows, you can distinctly see the bullets going through monsters much like bows do offline. But neither bows nor crossbows do that online.


I think I might know what you are talking about...you mean like if two enemies are standing next to each other, both will be hit by the same shot?
If I still not getting it, you mind posting that vid?

Itsuki
Oct 18, 2006, 10:40 PM
yes, I do mean like that. Or for example if 2-3 monsters are in a line in front of you, offline the bullet will go through all of them, but online the bullet will hit the first one and stop.

Miyoko
Oct 18, 2006, 10:44 PM
I'm really torn on what a good element would be for shotguns... I'm kind of leaning towards light, but, would anyone who's toyed around with it be able to give some more insight on what's good and bad for shotties?

Flamingo99
Oct 18, 2006, 10:45 PM
I have a question about bullets. If I have 3 handguns, do I have to buy 3 Ice handgun bullet PAs to equip all three of the handguns with the ice bullet, or can equip all three handguns with one Ice handgun bullet PA?

thanks for any help.

Flamingo99
Oct 18, 2006, 10:45 PM
Double post, sorry.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Flamingo99 on 2006-10-18 20:46 ]</font>

chrisy05
Oct 18, 2006, 10:49 PM
ehh no u have to equip a bullet to every single hand gun
or if u like, u can take the bullet from a hand gun and put it in another hand gun (for example u would do that when u get a better hand gun)

Itsuki
Oct 18, 2006, 10:56 PM
easiest way to put it is that PAs are seperate from weapons. Once you learn a PA, you never need to learn it again, it goes into your PA list.
Then, from your PA list, things are equipped onto your weapons, they can be equipped on multiple weapons, etc.

As for shotguns, I find lightning to be wonderful. But in certain areas, ice appears to work very well. I imagine light could be very good, but its not online yet, so I can't tell you how the status effects rate and effect length is in a party situation.

Monsters when paralyzed just stay paralyzed for a long time. Problem is monsters that can attack out of paralysis like casters or S-rank monsters. And this is where ice/fire becomes better.

Miyoko
Oct 18, 2006, 11:00 PM
Light works quite well offline, but I'm not sure how much it'd work online. Also, I figured fire / DoT type bullets wouldn't work well in a shotgun, as the slvl doesn't increase the damage they'd do -- Whereas incapacitation type bullets would be better, since slvl just determines status affliction length (assuming I've got my facts straight)

chrisy05
Oct 18, 2006, 11:09 PM
well at least i did good in equiping lightning to my shotgun. Ice on a rifle seems to be more useful because the status effect rate is well, better. Still, is there a bullet that increases damage perhaps?

Sev
Oct 18, 2006, 11:15 PM
On 2006-10-18 21:09, chrisy05 wrote:
well at least i did good in equiping lightning to my shotgun. Ice on a rifle seems to be more useful because the status effect rate is well, better. Still, is there a bullet that increases damage perhaps?



Fire is DoT... So in a way, yes. Fire. Later on, when Dark makes it's way in it's also a DoT, and I'm pretty sure you can have both effects of Dark and Fire on a mob at once?

Am I wrong?

Itsuki
Oct 18, 2006, 11:20 PM
true, the dot doesn't become crazy, but that doesn't necessarily make fire bad. In a situation where paralysis doesn't work and where silence doesn't work, your options are ice and fire. Ice has limitted use, because if people are hitting the monster you freeze, it basically instantly breaks free. While on the other hand, if all your status effects are relatively useless, you might as well deal more damage, and thats what any DoT does.

Also, so far, the only status effects I know don't work together are burn and freeze, I know for a fact that all other status effects online right now can overlap. Yes, even paralysis and silence (even though they are opposing elements).

Sev
Oct 18, 2006, 11:23 PM
On 2006-10-18 21:20, Itsuki-chan wrote:
true, the dot doesn't become crazy, but that doesn't necessarily make fire bad. In a situation where paralysis doesn't work and where silence doesn't work, your options are ice and fire. Ice has limitted use, because if people are hitting the monster you freeze, it basically instantly breaks free. While on the other hand, if all your status effects are relatively useless, you might as well deal more damage, and thats what any DoT does.

Also, so far, the only status effects I know don't work together are burn and freeze, I know for a fact that all other status effects online right now can overlap. Yes, even paralysis and silence (even though they are opposing elements).




Wow, that's news to me. That's really cool though, and it's really good to know. Now I can tell my friend that's planning on being a Ranger something new for a change.

Thanks for the info.

chrisy05
Oct 18, 2006, 11:29 PM
On 2006-10-18 21:20, Itsuki-chan wrote:
true, the dot doesn't become crazy, but that doesn't necessarily make fire bad. In a situation where paralysis doesn't work and where silence doesn't work, your options are ice and fire. Ice has limitted use, because if people are hitting the monster you freeze, it basically instantly breaks free. While on the other hand, if all your status effects are relatively useless, you might as well deal more damage, and thats what any DoT does.

Also, so far, the only status effects I know don't work together are burn and freeze, I know for a fact that all other status effects online right now can overlap. Yes, even paralysis and silence (even though they are opposing elements).



in that case ill make a saber with a lightning element and have a hand gun with a silence bullet.

Miyoko
Oct 18, 2006, 11:33 PM
On 2006-10-18 21:20, Itsuki-chan wrote:
true, the dot doesn't become crazy, but that doesn't necessarily make fire bad. In a situation where paralysis doesn't work and where silence doesn't work, your options are ice and fire. Ice has limitted use, because if people are hitting the monster you freeze, it basically instantly breaks free. While on the other hand, if all your status effects are relatively useless, you might as well deal more damage, and thats what any DoT does.

Also, so far, the only status effects I know don't work together are burn and freeze, I know for a fact that all other status effects online right now can overlap. Yes, even paralysis and silence (even though they are opposing elements).


You do raise a good point there. I suppose it'll depend on enemy fire resistances later on, and just how much damage high level fire bullets will do.

It'd just be nice to kind of narrow down what bullet types are useless for which kinds of weapons, since we can only get 36 of what, 50+ bullets? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Itsuki
Oct 19, 2006, 12:43 AM
I generally focus on 2 elements per weapon type. Maybe 3 if its a weapon I really enjoy using.

Ok, for shotguns, PA bonuses:
level, shots, PP usage, elemental %, atp %, accuracy %
Fire/Earth:
Lvl1, 3 shots, 9 PP, 4% ele, 111% atp, 41% ata
Lvl11, 4 shots, 12 PP, 9% ele, 126% atp, 51% ata
Lvl 21, 5 shots, 15 PP, 13% ele, 141% atp, 60% ata
Lvl 30, 5 shots, 15 PP, 13% ele, 150% atp, 60% ata

Ice/Lightning:
Lvl1, 3 shots, 9 PP, 4% ele, 106% atp, 41% ata
Lvl11, 4 shots, 12 PP, 9% ele, 121% atp, 51% ata
Lvl 21, 5 shots, 15 PP, 13% ele, 136% atp, 60% ata
Lvl 30, 5 shots, 15 PP, 13% ele, 145% atp, 60% ata

All level 2 status effects, which is 5% per tick for burn.

FenixStryk
Oct 19, 2006, 12:58 AM
Really informative stuff, especially on the crossbows and shotgun SEs. I'm going to assume that these are the best SE combos:

Twin Handguns/Mechguns: Ice
Rifles/Shotguns: Lightning

Rizen
Oct 19, 2006, 04:38 AM
I never seen a shot going straight through an enemy before...guess I will have to see that.

Always useful info Itsuki. Along the lines of what Itsuki said about lving 2 or 3 elements per weapon, I been doing something very similar. I also been planning out which spells and elements I was going to get on each gun and etc...still got more to think about:

Techs:
1. Agtal (Fire ATP boost)
2. Agdeal (Fire decrease ATP)
3. Defbal (Ice Def boost)
4. Defdeal (Ice decrease Def)
5. Zodial (ATA and EVP boost)
6. Dizas (Decrease damage from melee)
7. Rendis (Decrease damage from range)
8. Retial (TAP MST boost)
9. Resta (Heal)
10. Regene (Removes SE)

Bullets:
11-13. Rifle Bullet x3 (Fire,Earth,Dark)
14-16. Longbow x3 (Ice,Lightning,Light)
17-19. Shotgun Bullet x3 (Fire,Ice,Lightning)
20. Machineguns (Ice)
21-23. Laser Cannon x3 (Fire,Ice,Dark)
24-26. Crossbow x3 (Earth,Dark,Light)
27-29. Cards x2 (Fire,Dark)
30-31. Twin Handgun x2 (Fire,Ice)

Skills:
Dagger Hikaishuuhazan
Twin Dagger 3rd

I kinda made the weapons have the opposite elements for one another so that I can switch out depending on enemy type,

Also, may I use that info on first page?

Nani-chan
Oct 19, 2006, 05:35 AM
Just in case anyone is completely confused, this is Rizen's guntecher PA branch. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

My tech branch is similiar but I'm not sure how useful
Dizas (Decrease damage from melee)
Rendis (Decrease damage from range)
are so I may disclude them.
Zodial looks nice but I haven't seen anyone miss yet at my point of the game (in beta).

Also I noticed that wands start to give +200 tap at the end of C-Ranks. Only if A-Rank wands (about +400 tap) are still not enough then will I include
Retial (TAP MST boost)

Are Longbows stronger than Rifles in any way?
-----------------

I've tried to shorten it to what I think I'll do for my guntecher.

Wand/Crossbow
1. Agtal (Fire increase ATP)
2. Agdeal (Fire decrease ATP)

Wand/Crossbow
3. Defbal (Ice Def boost)
4. Defdeal (Ice decrease Def)

Wand/Crossbow
5. Resta (Heal)
6. Reverser (Removes SE) / Gi-Resta (Raise + hp Regen)

Twin Handgun

Twin Handgun

Rifle

If prefered Handgun or Card can replace Crossbow above.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2006-10-19 04:29 ]</font>

Itsuki
Oct 19, 2006, 10:12 AM
longbows have higher ATP and higher ATA if thats what you mean by stronger. They are a bit less safe than rifles.

Rizen
Oct 19, 2006, 02:10 PM
I love Longbows. They have higher attack and higher accuaracy than Rifle. The only drawn back is the half a second charge to shoot.

Im just still debating on whether or not to toss a few spells so I can use more guns but...

Itsuki
Oct 19, 2006, 03:03 PM
I actually prefer the rifles over the bows. More reliable, better maneuverability with them.

You also have to consider just how slow bullets level. Its best to not have too many to level. Personally though, I'd stick to less buffs. At most you'll have 2 wands with buffs on them, you shouldn't need more than 4-5 buffs.


Zodial looks nice but I haven't seen anyone miss yet at my point of the game (in beta).
You must be pretty early then. For the first few levels of being in B-rank, rangers can't even hit things yet, and hunters only from behind. Theres also some monsters later on that are just damn near impossible to hit (mainly bugs, but there are others). Personally I'd go the Zod techs voer the Def techs. Especially since as a Ranger, ATA and EVA are two things you're specializing in.

Rizen
Oct 19, 2006, 03:17 PM
I plan on being a All-Around Supportive Guntecher for the whole party and just not for myself. I try to put the party before me. If I was going for Self-Supportive Guntecher I would drop Fire debuff, Ice buff, Light Buff, and maybe the two damage reduction spells.

Problem I have is that I have 5 wands and only 6 slots. At first, I just said I was going to just swap wands on and off but I begin the think about it and I figured I might lighten my load, but I love all those spells. I really dunno. Balancing out spells and guns is getting kinda annoying lol

Also...this might help me. Have you seen/heard/experienced Dizas and/or Rendis?

Jade4r5
Oct 19, 2006, 04:18 PM
i have a question on how the bullets work. if you have a rifle or whatever and give it a bullet disk is that rifle permenantly(sp?) whatever element that disk was or can you change it? If you can change it how does that work do you get the disk back or do you have to guy a new one or what?

Rizen
Oct 19, 2006, 04:21 PM
On 2006-10-19 14:18, Jade4r5 wrote:
i have a question on how the bullets work. if you have a rifle or whatever and give it a bullet disk is that rifle permenantly(sp?) whatever element that disk was or can you change it? If you can change it how does that work do you get the disk back or do you have to guy a new one or what?



When you use a PA disk, it becomes saved to your PA list. When a PA is on your list, you can equip it to any weapon of that type.
Lets take that rifle for example. If you use a Ice Bullet Disk for Rifle and learn it, it becomes saved on your one out of 36 on your PA list. After that, you can equip it to any type of Rifle you want.

FenixStryk
Oct 19, 2006, 04:27 PM
On 2006-10-19 14:18, Jade4r5 wrote:i have a question on how the bullets work. if you have a rifle or whatever and give it a bullet disk is that rifle permenantly(sp?) whatever element that disk was or can you change it? If you can change it how does that work do you get the disk back or do you have to guy a new one or what?When you buy a bullet to enchant a gun, you equip it like a Photon Art. Don't like it? Unequip it and equip a new one. You'll still have it in your Photon Arts list, though. =]

chrisy05
Oct 19, 2006, 06:26 PM
On 2006-10-18 22:43, Itsuki-chan wrote:
I generally focus on 2 elements per weapon type. Maybe 3 if its a weapon I really enjoy using.

Ok, for shotguns, PA bonuses:
level, shots, PP usage, elemental %, atp %, accuracy %
Fire/Earth:
Lvl1, 3 shots, 9 PP, 4% ele, 111% atp, 41% ata
Lvl11, 4 shots, 12 PP, 9% ele, 126% atp, 51% ata
Lvl 21, 5 shots, 15 PP, 13% ele, 141% atp, 60% ata
Lvl 30, 5 shots, 15 PP, 13% ele, 150% atp, 60% ata

Ice/Lightning:
Lvl1, 3 shots, 9 PP, 4% ele, 106% atp, 41% ata
Lvl11, 4 shots, 12 PP, 9% ele, 121% atp, 51% ata
Lvl 21, 5 shots, 15 PP, 13% ele, 136% atp, 60% ata
Lvl 30, 5 shots, 15 PP, 13% ele, 145% atp, 60% ata

All level 2 status effects, which is 5% per tick for burn.


whoa good job on getting this information
this will prove to be usefull http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Itsuki
Oct 19, 2006, 07:08 PM
On 2006-10-19 13:17, Rizen wrote:
Also...this might help me. Have you seen/heard/experienced Dizas and/or Rendis?



Maya casts dizas on me sometimes. Its alright, but it doesn't last very long. I don't think it'd be PP effective to keep recasting it, especialyl since wands have such low PP.

As for that bullet information, thats straight from the wiki.

Rizen
Oct 19, 2006, 07:15 PM
So I guess thats one less Wand for me to wield. *crosses off his list*
Only one more wand and I will be slot effecient lol

Rizen
Oct 20, 2006, 10:24 PM
Bringing this back up for people to see.

Also, this topic has been added to the sticky thread so if you have trouble finding this topic in the future look there.

FenixStryk
Oct 20, 2006, 10:38 PM
Can't decide what weapon combos I should use. I know, for a fact, I will have at least 1 Shock Twin Handgun, 1 Frozen Mechgun /Saber, and one Flame Crossbow/Wand. However, I think I'm going to need more than just 3 palettes... Hmm... that, and what magic should I put ON the wand... woe is the life of a Cast Guntecher...

Miyoko
Oct 21, 2006, 06:25 AM
I've started planning out which bullet types and PAs in general I'm going to use for my weapons and such, so I can spend less time debating about it when I actually get there in game.

Itsuki-chan, would you happen to have an IM program of some sort? You seem to be on your game with ranger stuff, so if it's alright, I wouldn't mind discussing some rangery-goodness with you.

BadYeti
Oct 21, 2006, 06:58 AM
Does anyone know what the status effect progression is on crossbows?

Do they start at level 2 status effect and stay that way through the photon art progression, like a shotgun?

Itsuki
Oct 21, 2006, 01:16 PM
Rifle and Bow are 2 -> 3 -> 4.

Handgun, crossbow, and gernade launcher are 1 -> 2 -> 3.

Shotgun, dualies, and cards are 2 across the board.

Mechguns and Lasers are 1 across the board.

(these are for 30, some of these start out slower than others, but for 21+ they are basically the same)
Handgun, twin handgun, rifle, and bow are 160% / 155% ATP

Shotgun is 150% / 145% ATP

Crossbow is 145% / 140% ATP

Mechgun I don't know, but I believe its most likely 130% across the board.

Laser and Gernade launcher I'm somewhat unsure about, but the information I've seen seems to indicate they both end up at 170% / 165%

EDIT (for sake of not double posting):

Can't decide what weapon combos I should use. I know, for a fact, I will have at least 1 Shock Twin Handgun, 1 Frozen Mechgun /Saber, and one Flame Crossbow/Wand. However, I think I'm going to need more than just 3 palettes... Hmm... that, and what magic should I put ON the wand... woe is the life of a Cast Guntecher...
It really depends on what your situation in that particular party is. My palette usually looks like this (not in the actual order it is on my palette):
Crossbow / dagger
Card / wand
Mechgun / wand
Dualies
Rifle
another rifle/dualie depending on level.

As for the techs, I generally have the wands with one attack spell (usually foie) and one support spell (resta or regen depending on level). I also carry a 2nd or 3rd rifle/dualies in my inventory, a 2nd dagger, a 2nd mechgun, a shotgun, and a 3rd wand (usually with both resta and regen on it)

Yes, I usually have 15 weapons on me at any given time. And sadly, in some areas, I'll empty 10. Usually I'll atleast empty 5.

I'm planning on switching out that 6th spot on the palette for a crossbow / clair saber combo. I have the clair, but need another crossbow.

As for elements. Depending on the area, the dualies will be either Fire, Ice, or Earth. Rifles are lightning or ice. Mechgun is lightning. Crossbow is lightning. Card is ice. Shotgun is lightning or ice, but doesn't come out alot.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-10-21 11:38 ]</font>

BadYeti
Oct 21, 2006, 08:20 PM
On 2006-10-21 11:16, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Rifle and Bow are 2 -> 3 -> 4.

Handgun, crossbow, and gernade launcher are 1 -> 2 -> 3.

Shotgun, dualies, and cards are 2 across the board.

Mechguns and Lasers are 1 across the board.
...

Thank you very much, Itsuki-chan. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

That's a tremendously helpful post, with some great information that's not even available on PSUpedia.

Rizen
Oct 22, 2006, 09:14 AM
Oooo, more info. Thanks Itsuki for being a big help to this thread, I will try to add this info to my first post.

Also Im going to be adding trap info.

HaloMaster24
Oct 22, 2006, 10:56 AM
Do the Light and Dark bullets have any status effects or are they simply damage modifers (if the enemy is weak to dark or light)?

Rizen
Oct 22, 2006, 10:58 AM
I just added this to the first post a few moments ago. Light Bullets inflict Confusion and Dark inflict Infection.

* Fire: Burn - Causes damage over time by a certain % of life.
* Ice: Freeze - Stops from moving, cast, and attacking.
* Thunder: Shock - Stops from attacking, but can still move.
* Earth: Silence - Stops from casting, but can still move.
* Light: Confusion - Causes inflicted to run around in circles and/or attack others.
* Dark: Infection - Causes damage over time by a certain % of life.

HaloMaster24
Oct 22, 2006, 11:01 AM
Sorry, hadn't check the original post recently.

Appreciate the help.

Rizen
Oct 22, 2006, 11:03 AM
No problem, I just added it so Im sure it was overlooked easily. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

I also added a few more links, descriptions on Ranger-type classes, and working on Trap description right now.

Trinitystar
Oct 22, 2006, 11:13 AM
Say you have a dagger in one hand and a handgun in the other how does it work? I mean how do you shoot and then go over to the dagger? Do you have to push a button to go from one to the other or when you are close to the mob it gos over to the dagger?

Grr
Oct 22, 2006, 11:16 AM
on the 360 you tap a shoulder button and it puts your gun up and you cant use your saber. but as soon as you let go you can swing your sword. its really handy if you push both shoulders and go into strafe mode while holding your gun.

edit :100off (260,lawl)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Grr on 2006-10-22 09:17 ]</font>

Trinitystar
Oct 22, 2006, 11:17 AM
Ty Grr http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Rizen
Oct 22, 2006, 11:21 AM
Good question. When you are using a Main Hand(Dagger)/Offhand(Handgun) combo, your Main hand (Dagger) will also appear visible until you use the trigger button to use your offhand(handgun).

Hope this helps, also in this clip, i use Main Hand/Offhand combo (Dagger/Mechgun). Just pay attention to the bottom right hand corner of the screen when im using it.
http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Video/?action=view&current=BlooperRizenvs150.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch2

Trinitystar
Oct 22, 2006, 11:29 AM
On 2006-10-22 09:21, Rizen wrote:
Good question. When you are using a Main Hand(Dagger)/Offhand(Handgun) combo, your Main hand (Dagger) will also appear visible until you use the trigger button to use your offhand(handgun).

Hope this helps, also in this clip, i use Main Hand/Offhand combo (Dagger/Mechgun). Just pay attention to the bottom right hand corner of the screen when im using it.
http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Video/?action=view&current=BlooperRizenvs150.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch2





Ok I see ty http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Itsuki
Oct 22, 2006, 12:10 PM
You can swap between "click to switch" and "hold to switch" in your options. Also, when you go to first person mode, you'll automatically switch to gun (if the gun is useable in first person).

Also, while shooting shooting you need to wait till the end of the shooting animation before it will start the melee attack and vice versa. When shooting from neutral, you must also wait till the end of the shooting animation before you are allowed to move. You may notice some rangers in constant movement because of this, since if you are already moving while shooting, you may continue to move. This is especially noticable with crossbows, which have the longest of offhand animations. And it is also somewhat noticable with dualies.

Rizen
Oct 22, 2006, 01:45 PM
Hehe, I think Itsuki like to explain things better than me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif And doing a damn good job at it.
Also...can Guntechers use traps? Just wondering since Rangers can online.

CypherErebus
Oct 22, 2006, 03:35 PM
Does the bullet type effect the damage if the beast is opposite to it?

i:e

Fire bullet on Ice beast hurts more and causes SE effect?

Itsuki
Oct 22, 2006, 04:02 PM
yes, I believe its also effected by the element of your armor. I'll check to make sure.

But basically, Like take other post, I said "Lvl 21, 5 shots, 15 PP, 13% ele, 136% atp, 60% ata." The 13% elemental means you'll deal 13% bonus damage on monsters of the opposite element. This is with shotgun. Some ranged weapons, like cards for example, start out higher. Cards start with I think 17% elemental.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-10-22 15:26 ]</font>

Rizen
Oct 22, 2006, 04:09 PM
Not sure if you saw my question on the other page but do you know if Guntechers and Fortegunners can use traps? Just wondering since Rangers can online.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-22 14:10 ]</font>

Itsuki
Oct 22, 2006, 04:11 PM
Guntechers, Fortegunners, and Fighgunners can all use traps. I'm not sure on just how many fighgunners can use though, but I assume its the same as fortegunners, guntechers, and rangers (which can all use the same). I would check myself for fighgunner, but I'm hunter level 1.

Rizen
Oct 22, 2006, 04:15 PM
Alright thank you, I will be sure to add that info to the first post.

You been helping alot in this thread and I cant thank you enough for that. Hopefully some of this pressure will be relieved when the game comes out http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

CypherErebus
Oct 22, 2006, 04:22 PM
Which would be better for spreading SEs shotguns or machineguns? I'm thinking shotguns since they have the spread.

Rizen
Oct 22, 2006, 04:25 PM
Shotgun hands down. Machineguns have lower chance and lower SE lv (SE1 while shotgun is SE2).
Also Shotgun spreads across the whole screen.

And yes, Rangers were made better in the latest patch in the JP version (Oct 12).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-22 14:26 ]</font>

unitx
Oct 22, 2006, 04:25 PM
Is it true that one of the content updates made rangers stronger? If so, do you know which one it was?

Itsuki
Oct 22, 2006, 04:30 PM
Just trying to support those that want to be rangers. LoneVandal seems to have done all he could to scare people away from them, but its really a fun class to play. People just need to understand that they are different from PSO and how to make them work.

As a little further information, it came to my attention a few days ago that there are set items. There don't seem to be many associated with guns, but I might as well list them, though I am unsure if they work (I'll test atleast the shotgun one tonight):
Raboru damudo (1 star tenora armor) + Shigga damudo (1 star shotgun)
Agehasenba (4 star youmei armor) + Agehakikami (8 star youmei card)
Raboru neido (7 star tenora armor) + Gurre neido (7 star grenade launcher, yes, that space is part of the name)

They're all listed as "?" on the wiki. But some actually have listed information that seem pretty useful. For example Jiitoline (4s grm armor) + jiitoshiin (7s grm saber) supposedly give +95~130 atp. Thats a decent change. I'll also check the brand + brandline combo, which is a pretty cheap 2 star combo that can give a good +100 atp boost early on.

EDIT: Mechguns are mainly good when theres only 1 or 2 monsters you want to have a status effect for a short period of time. Such as when you're in melee mode and want to paralyze something while closing in on it (Works like magic). Shotguns are better for spreading around the room, but are very slow.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-10-22 14:32 ]</font>

Ether
Oct 22, 2006, 04:48 PM
On 2006-10-22 14:02, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Now, for techs atleast, if your armor is say 30% fire, you'll deal 30% more with Foie to everything


Err, are you really sure on this? I just tested it online and offline and am getting the exact same numbers on my foie with and without 20% fire armor

Itsuki
Oct 22, 2006, 05:31 PM
Hmm... I went on and checked again and you're right, it doesn't appear to have an effect. Editted information out of my post. I hadn't actually went and fully tested it myself. I had heard it being discussed in channel one day, and then due to the fact that my foie deals more than my digga by a pretty huge amount, and that I wear fire armor, I figured the fire armor must be the cause.

Though, this foie damage I'm referring to is from Agata Relics (all holy elemental), and with a lower level foie than digga. Which is the main place I actually have options for techs on my guntecher. Perhaps holy is also weak to fire? Or perhaps monsters can be weak to multiple elements. I might need to experiment with this more.

EC_Subbie
Oct 22, 2006, 05:42 PM
On 2006-10-22 13:35, CypherErebus wrote:
Does the bullet type effect the damage if the beast is opposite to it?

i:e

Fire bullet on Ice beast hurts more and causes SE effect?



Not only that, but from my experience as a Ranger in the beta, it also lands status effects easier. For example..It was very reliable to land Ice on fire mobs, when compared to light based mobs. Point blanking them with a shotgun (my SE weapon of choice) would often land an SE on the first or second shot. Due to this, I guess it'll be smart to have multiple elements per gun or multiple guns each with different bullet type equipped.

sulfate
Oct 22, 2006, 05:45 PM
has this topic been stickied yet?.....it should

Rizen
Oct 22, 2006, 05:48 PM
It is stickied in the PSU Forum Stickies - Check Here First! thread. Its called the ultimate Ranger-Topic. lol

CypherErebus
Oct 22, 2006, 05:49 PM
On 2006-10-22 15:42, EC_Subbie wrote:


On 2006-10-22 13:35, CypherErebus wrote:
Does the bullet type effect the damage if the beast is opposite to it?

i:e

Fire bullet on Ice beast hurts more and causes SE effect?



Not only that, but from my experience as a Ranger in the beta, it also lands status effects easier. For example..It was very reliable to land Ice on fire mobs, when compared to light based mobs. Point blanking them with a shotgun (my SE weapon of choice) would often land an SE on the first or second shot. Due to this, I guess it'll be smart to have multiple elements per gun or multiple guns each with different bullet type equipped.



I get it. It'd be easier to have basically all the photon art bullets and equip them as necessary depending on the creatures you fight.

Blueblur
Oct 22, 2006, 06:48 PM
Sticky this topic, please mods?

-Break-
Oct 22, 2006, 06:48 PM
It is stickied......

Itsuki
Oct 23, 2006, 01:17 AM
I get it. It'd be easier to have basically all the photon art bullets and equip them as necessary depending on the creatures you fight.
You go ahead and try that. It takes forever to level bullets. Its far more effective, even damage wise, to only level a select few bullets. 2 bullets at 21+ is better than 4 at 11-15.

Didn't experiment too much with the techs, but tried out one of the sets. It was a saber set though, the Jiitoshiin + Jiitoline set. My damage went from 100 to 120. Not a bad difference. I'll have to see what the difference is on some of the others.

Nestahima
Oct 23, 2006, 04:44 PM
Personally, I find that the Ice bullet is one that is most worth leveling. While not as much damage as the Fire or Earth, it definately makes up for it with the freezing SE.

Silver_Wyrm
Oct 23, 2006, 04:54 PM
eventually I'll try cap them all, but for starters I'm gonna have 2 or 3 I try cap first

Nani-chan
Oct 23, 2006, 04:58 PM
How is infection? I hear more about burn.

Clyde
Oct 23, 2006, 05:01 PM
Creatures break out way to fast from freeze when there hit by melee attacks, so wouldn't it better to use freeze when theres rangers and forces around, and shock when theres hunters around. Why freeze a monster when a melee hit will just break it out. Maybe its not that bad, (going by what ive seen by videos) but it just seems a waste of PP.

Rizen
Oct 23, 2006, 05:05 PM
On 2006-10-23 15:01, Clyde wrote:
Creatures break out way to fast from freeze when there hit by melee attacks, so wouldn't it better to use freeze when theres rangers and forces around, and shock when theres hunters around. Why freeze a monster when a melee hit will just break it out. Maybe its not that bad, (going by what ive seen by videos) but it just seems a waste of PP.

Trust me, Freezing is so much more effective than shocking an enemy. Even if it is just for one second as you say, its enough time to save others or stop the enemy in its tracks from attacking. Shock just stops them from attacking, freeze stops them from moving attacking and casting.

Nestahima
Oct 23, 2006, 05:07 PM
I've been able to freeze things on the first hit, and kill them without breaking the status effect.

Clyde
Oct 23, 2006, 05:15 PM
Doesn't last long, so kill faster is a good argument http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif , guess I am focusing on the short time it lasts rather then the fact that immobilizing for any amount is always better then simply limiting there attacks. Can't wait to try this out for myself. Thanks for the info

chrisy05
Oct 23, 2006, 06:20 PM
hmm it seems that ice out performs both earth and lightning. Still i guess earth and lightning compensates by lasting longer.

hmm. does anyone know what would be a good weapon to use ice bullets with.
In the beta i used ice bullets on my rifle, it was nice becase the % of the SE was good, yet i dont think ice bullets allow the rifle to do the full damage its supose to do.

soo yeah?

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 23, 2006, 07:33 PM
Well if you want lots of damage take Fire bullets. Dark DoT is really bad in my opinion but I would take a rifle or ice or lightning over a damage rifle.

Miyoko
Oct 23, 2006, 08:56 PM
Okay, so, in preperation of PSUs release, I've been working on my PA list for my fortegunner. One thing to keep in mind -- I don't plan on soloing (pretty much ever), and this character will be a part fo a hunter/ ranger/ force trio.

Anywho... Thoughts, comments, critiques, and suggestions on what I've got so far?

FORTEGUNNER PA LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rifle : Fire / Earth / Dark
Rifles are about damage, so the better damage boosting elements were chosen here.

Shot : Shock / Ice / Earth (maybe light)
I picked these three because their effect isn't damage, nor based on PA level. These PAs are about incapatication (except for earth), and shock/ice do that well. With 3-5 bullets hitting enemies, there's multiple chances for the PAs to work. Earth was chosen for this exact reason -- If I very quickly need to silence an enemy, I can have 5x the odds of afflicting it.

Grenade: Shock / Light
With the wide AoE it has, and since shock/light can't have their duration shortened by consecutive hits, shock and light seemed like good crowd controll tools to stick on this weapon.


Cannon : Fire / Earth / (Dark, if one lazer can hit a single enemy multiple times)
Another damage weapon. Again, going for the boosted bullets.


Handgun: Shock / Light / (Ice might not be bad)
To incapacitate foes so that I can move into close combat with minimized risk.

DualHgn: Fire / Dark / Earth.
I avoided ice on this for a simple reason -- If two bullets are fired, the first hits and freezes my target, the second may break them free (not to mention, I'm teaming with a figunner). Fire and Dark were chosen, due to the fact that they're DoT -- the quick rate of fire of handguns means that these can (hopefully) be applied, then switched to another weapon to deal additional damage while the DoT tics.

Crossbw:


Mechgun: Ice / Fire
For quick status affliction and tagging -- strafe across a group.


Saber/ spear/ dagger : Not really sure where to go PAwise on these three...

BluCast20xx
Oct 23, 2006, 09:08 PM
Actually Twin Freeze is really useful. I froze enemies with it and most times the second shot freezes them...if the first shot froze them, they would still be frozen even when the second shot lands. Plus ifyou really good with stafing, Twin freeze becomes more effective.

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 23, 2006, 09:16 PM
For shots, I'm going for lightning since it's more useful to hunters fighting up front and hits a lot of enemies.

I don't kow whether to get fire/dark on my lazer or rifle. Not sure what weapon I want to freeze with and what I want to damage with. Would carrying two rifles work better than carrying a freeze rifle and dark cannon?

Itsuki
Oct 23, 2006, 09:16 PM
On 2006-10-23 15:07, Nestahima wrote:
I've been able to freeze things on the first hit, and kill them without breaking the status effect.



Sounds like perhaps the xbox360 servers don't have the status effect nerf in them. With a rifle, it usually takes me around 10 to 15 hits to freeze something, compared to the 2-3 hits it takes to break them out.

Early on, ice was amazingly good, you could even freeze minibosses and leaders. You also usually froze before the 3rd hit. But then they did a nerf on status effects that brought that rate down to 1/5th, maybe even 1/10th of what it was. It was pretty huge, and made ice suddenly become only mediocre at best, with silence and paralysis becoming the forefront.

To give a good example of the change, originally, the big cows in relics and the boss of relics could be reliably frozen. After the nerf, I have not seen either one of them frozen even once. Infact, I don't even think its possible anymore.

I used to solo agata before the nerf, reliably I would freeze 4 out of 5 worms I killed and it would make agata fly by pretty fast. After the nerf I'm lucky if I freeze 1 out of 5.

It just made paraylsis (atleast for me) far better. I still use ice though, but the situations are different. In big mobs, I sometimes seperate half of the mob. Keep say, 2 frozen on the side, while everyone else focuses no the main group. Also, in agata relics, before I got used to doing my guntecher casting, 2 rangers on the dogs with ice rifles could reliably keep one frozen while the others in the group took on the svalatus. Basically just shooting till its frozen, then helping kill the svalatus till it breaks free.

FenixStryk
Oct 23, 2006, 09:23 PM
Here's my plan:
Dual Hanguns: Shock
Mechgun: Ice
Crossbow: Fire
Wand: Buffs + Heals
Extra Stuff Here

Itsuki
Oct 23, 2006, 10:10 PM
I don't kow whether to get fire/dark on my lazer or rifle. Not sure what weapon I want to freeze with and what I want to damage with. Would carrying two rifles work better than carrying a freeze rifle and dark cannon?

Could do both. Dark and light won't be on the servers for a while, so till then you can level fire/ice instead. Or something similar. 2 elements with each time of weapon isn't too much of a burden. Its whe you go for more than that that it becomes an issue.

Carlo210
Oct 24, 2006, 05:39 PM
Even after the pp gun update, guns still cost way too much pp for the damage they do, especially when compared against techniques.

Rizen
Oct 24, 2006, 06:08 PM
On 2006-10-24 15:39, Carlo210 wrote:
Even after the pp gun update, guns still cost way too much pp for the damage they do, especially when compared against techniques.

Trust me, PP usage is fine as it is, and its not suppose to match that off a technique.
If you read through my section of "About Rangers", it tells you were arent meant for pure damaging. Rangers have other abilities that made up for their lack of damaging; that being Status Effects. From the other post you make it seem like its not a big deal, but my friend, its a very big deal. Status effects help out your party in many ways: they can stop an enemy from attacking, hold off enemies from harming your teammates or yourself, and even deal damage over time. Also, guns have a knack for causing enemies to flinch. And by flinch I mean it causes them to pause for a moment and interupts anything they were doing.
If you are looking for Ranger to deal high amount of damage from afar, those glory days are gone just like PSO. Rangers are now a support class and one not to be underestimated.

Carlo210
Oct 24, 2006, 06:43 PM
I guess I'll have to see how things shape up.

Rizen
Oct 24, 2006, 06:45 PM
Ranger takes a bit to get use to. Im not saying everyone will enjoy it, but those who do give it a chance will love it.

Also I forgot to mention the fact that Rangers are one of the few classes that can use Traps.

Nani-chan
Oct 24, 2006, 07:39 PM
Talking with Rizen, I've noticed guns have allot more PP Online instead of Offline.

Anyone have a favorite brand for different weapons? I think I liked GRM Rifles (ATP +) and Youmei Dualies (PP+). Having allot of PP seemed to help make the gun last longer for the mission. But I can tell ATP will be better in some situations such as bosses?

I'm sure the answer is everyone has their preferences. So it's good to have various guns types.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2006-10-24 17:47 ]</font>

Teneris
Oct 24, 2006, 08:03 PM
Do you guys know if we'll be able to zoom in and out with the rifle in subjective POV?

Rizen
Oct 24, 2006, 08:31 PM
I dont think you can zoom in and out when you are using a Rifle in POV mode. That would be pretty neat if you could. ><

FenixStryk
Oct 24, 2006, 08:34 PM
You can go 1st person, which is a zoom from the default 3rd, but once in 1st person, you can't change how much you zoom it. However, depending on the weapon, it zooms in farther or closer; i.e., the Rifle zooms in farther in 1st person than a Handgun.

Teneris
Oct 24, 2006, 08:44 PM
Well that's good enough for me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Thanks Fenixstryk!

Itsuki
Oct 24, 2006, 09:10 PM
I actually generally prefer GRM weapons. If you're going to be upgrading, then Youmei is the way to go. Upgraded youmei weapons have far greater PP and the more you upgrade, the closer their ATP comes to GRM weapons. Infact, at +10, most youmei weapons are within 5% ATP of their GRM counterparts.

As a general rule, I stay away from tenora. But thats a preference thing.


Even after the pp gun update, guns still cost way too much pp for the damage they do, especially when compared against techniques.
As rizen said, its not about dealing damage, its about status effects. 2 rangers in a party can the S-rank missions go from horrible death fests to almost cake. Linear Line S suddenly becomes amazingly easy when you have rangers spamming paralysis everywhere (which ironically gets rid of the megid, not silence).

Nani-chan
Oct 24, 2006, 09:17 PM
I wonder if the cancel of megid is a error. Or do you think it's like a special attack or skill?

FenixStryk
Oct 24, 2006, 09:19 PM
Dunno about the Megid deal, but IMO TENORA WORKS weps will be better later on. Photon Charges will cancel out the PP weaknesses, and the extra damage + accuracy...

Arcturus
Oct 24, 2006, 09:57 PM
On 2006-10-24 19:19, FenixStryk wrote:
Dunno about the Megid deal, but IMO TENORA WORKS weps will be better later on. Photon Charges will cancel out the PP weaknesses, and the extra damage + accuracy...


Yeah, I'm really praying that rangers actually will be able to be effective damage-dealers at some point. Limited PP is a ranger's sole weakness... remove that, and you'll have a running-and-gunning monster.

BioWarrior
Oct 24, 2006, 09:59 PM
Im actually quite pleased with how ranger is with dealing damage and doing status effects, I was dead set on being ranger but topics like this made me rethink my choice and want to go Ranger.

Rizen
Oct 24, 2006, 10:00 PM
I think that Fortegunners might actually start doing higher amount of damage when their job levels get higher. I think I saw a site that had stats of expert classes outside of the ones posted on PSOW...cant remember where.
And from what I saw, guns online have tons of PP which made me very happy.

Thrash777
Oct 24, 2006, 10:04 PM
After seeing your Dante/Rizen must die video on YouTube, I'm DEFINATELY being a FiGunner!

Itsuki
Oct 24, 2006, 10:16 PM
The megid is part of an attack. I think it shoots out as like the end of a combo or something. But its a physical slash that also shoots megid, so paralysis cancels it.

And PP chargers aren't so bad, but they're clumsy for me to use since I use a lot of offhanded stuff. If you have a main weapon and an offhand weapon, you have to manually use the PP charger on the weapons, or else it just fills each weapon up half.

Rizen
Oct 24, 2006, 10:29 PM
Im working on a miniguide and a tutorial movie for traps. I thought traps might be over looked by alot of people so I decided I was going to make a clip showing how useful traps actually are and how to use them as a Ranger for crowd control and how to use it in combination with your weapons.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-24 20:30 ]</font>

Trinitystar
Oct 24, 2006, 10:32 PM
On 2006-10-24 20:29, Rizen wrote:
Im working on a miniguide and a tutorial movie for traps. I thought traps might be over looked by alot of people so I decided I was going to make a clip showing how useful traps actually are and how to use them as a Ranger for crowd control and how to use it in combination with your weapons.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-10-24 20:30 ]</font>


Sweet can't wait to see it.

Knoob
Oct 25, 2006, 12:49 AM
indeed, im not all to familiar with traps at all, would help

CypherErebus
Oct 25, 2006, 11:51 AM
Rangers may be weak now, but they get tons stronger at the higher levels, especially since the bullets are way higher. I saw a vid earlier on youtube of a ranger dealing hunter-esque damage with a handgun no less.

Itsuki
Oct 25, 2006, 05:24 PM
On 2006-10-25 09:51, CypherErebus wrote:
Rangers may be weak now, but they get tons stronger at the higher levels, especially since the bullets are way higher. I saw a vid earlier on youtube of a ranger dealing hunter-esque damage with a handgun no less.



Just doesn't happen, truly. Perhaps if you saw a hunter in the same video with equivalent weapons and equipment, then you would see that the hunters damage increases even more.

Rizen
Oct 25, 2006, 07:49 PM
Or it could have been a Ranger offline...

Itsuki
Oct 25, 2006, 11:03 PM
Ahh, very well could have. Rangers offline are completely broken good.

Rizen
Oct 27, 2006, 12:38 PM
Bringing back this topic for the good of the community and the fact that people been looking for class threads.

Also, I should be done with my trap video tomorrow. I tried to add some humor to make it fun for all to watch.

Rieter
Oct 29, 2006, 11:11 AM
"Crossbow: Highly misunderstood and underestimated weapon. People thought of this as a slower version of a handgun, but in reality, they are a Spread Needle reincarnated (mini shotgun in other words). When Crossbow's bullets reach lv 11 or higher, they get an addition spread to their shot maxing out at 3 per shot. Very useful because not only the spread, but the fact that it is an offhand which means you can use a main hand weapon (Dagger or Sword). "

With a crossbow, do you retain the ability to strafe and fire at the same time since it is one handed?

KiteWolfwood
Oct 29, 2006, 01:35 PM
I found Ice to be best on rifles. Ice seems to have a low proc rate on other weapons for how short the effect lasts. Burning is just awesome on Dual handguns. Only takes two or three shots for the burn effect to proc. Plus the rate of fire and the ability to strafe lets me tag everything to make a nice mob bonfire. On my handgun I am still trying to find a good bullet. Handgun just has a really low rate to proc effects it seems. I did have Ice on it but I don't remember why I even had it on there when I had Ice on my rifle already. I now have lightning on it which seems to do better then Ice did on it.

Eventually I will have Ice, Earth, and some third element on my rifle. While my other guns have only one or two. I haven't experimented to much with the shotgun. I was thinking about waiting till we get light bullets and try out the shotgun with those or wait and try light out with a launcher.

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 29, 2006, 01:52 PM
On 2006-10-29 08:11, Rieter wrote:
"Crossbow: Highly misunderstood and underestimated weapon. People thought of this as a slower version of a handgun, but in reality, they are a Spread Needle reincarnated (mini shotgun in other words). When Crossbow's bullets reach lv 11 or higher, they get an addition spread to their shot maxing out at 3 per shot. Very useful because not only the spread, but the fact that it is an offhand which means you can use a main hand weapon (Dagger or Sword). "

With a crossbow, do you retain the ability to strafe and fire at the same time since it is one handed?


Yes

Rieter
Oct 29, 2006, 03:35 PM
fantastic, thank you for the reply.

Itsuki
Oct 29, 2006, 04:49 PM
On 2006-10-29 10:52, Sgt_Shligger wrote:

On 2006-10-29 08:11, Rieter wrote:
"Crossbow: Highly misunderstood and underestimated weapon. People thought of this as a slower version of a handgun, but in reality, they are a Spread Needle reincarnated (mini shotgun in other words). When Crossbow's bullets reach lv 11 or higher, they get an addition spread to their shot maxing out at 3 per shot. Very useful because not only the spread, but the fact that it is an offhand which means you can use a main hand weapon (Dagger or Sword). "

With a crossbow, do you retain the ability to strafe and fire at the same time since it is one handed?


Yes


Its a bit more complicated than just a yes.

Yes, you can if you're already moving. But if you've used guns before, you'll notice that if you aren't shooting when you start moving, then you kind of stand still and can't move till after the crossbow fires.

Crossbow is a rather slow shooting weapon, because of this, it ends up being a bit clunky for me. If I don't remember to start moving before shooting, then I really have to stop shooting completely, and start moving or I won't be able to move at all. Its a lot more noticable than with dualies or a handgun or something.

Carlo210
Oct 30, 2006, 12:14 PM
The low pp on one handed weapons is killing me. Sure, they regen faster, but crossbows can eat up pp at higher levels (8pp per shot with 2 bullets - 11pp per shot with maxed 3 bullets).
The self-buffing and healing capabilities of guntecher are very attractive, but I don't like low pp on 1h weapons. You don't nuke as a guntecher, so you can't do something else while waiting for your gun to recharge.

Gravitom
Oct 30, 2006, 02:07 PM
Does anyone know what they changed for Rangers in the Japanese patch?

Also, does the animation change when you level up your bullets to 11 and 21 or is it just stats?

SailorDaravon
Oct 30, 2006, 02:15 PM
On 2006-10-30 11:07, Gravitom wrote:
Does anyone know what they changed for Rangers in the Japanese patch?

Also, does the animation change when you level up your bullets to 11 and 21 or is it just stats?



As I understand the first Japanese patch (we haven't gotten yet) basically nerfed the chances of afflicting enemies with status effects. Everyone I've talked to on the import says that ice hardly ever works anymore, but fire still seems to work well. Not sure about the other status effects. I've also read however that they incred the PP regen rate in the patch though. I think now it's something like 14pp every two ticks, and they changed it to 12pp every one tick. Someone else can probably confirm/deny that.

I don't think the animation changed at level 11. The block of ice when I froze enemies got bigger maybe? But nothing else no.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SailorDaravon on 2006-10-30 11:16 ]</font>

AngelLight
Oct 30, 2006, 02:15 PM
Animations change at 11 and 21 usually (i.e. more shots, bigger projectiles, etc.)

AngelLight
Oct 30, 2006, 02:30 PM
well yeah....if all it was that changed from the Art equipped wep and non equipped was the color of the bullet (as in most bullet arts), then yes all that changes is the proc effect level. But in the context of multi shot weapons (Shotguns, Cards, Crossbows)...you do get additional shots.

CypherErebus
Oct 30, 2006, 02:59 PM
Anyone want to start a guild for exchanging ranger weps and stuff?

Itsuki
Oct 31, 2006, 11:03 AM
On 2006-10-30 09:14, Carlo210 wrote:
The low pp on one handed weapons is killing me. Sure, they regen faster, but crossbows can eat up pp at higher levels (8pp per shot with 2 bullets - 11pp per shot with maxed 3 bullets).
The self-buffing and healing capabilities of guntecher are very attractive, but I don't like low pp on 1h weapons. You don't nuke as a guntecher, so you can't do something else while waiting for your gun to recharge.


Just don't focus on the one weapon. You have to remember, you're using 2x one handed weapons, that means you're regenning TWICE the PP that everyone else is. Depending on weapons of course, this is really not quite twice, but its still more than everyone else.

As for the guild thing, I did plan on on selling starter ranger weapons in my shop (+5 or so 3 star guns), but a guild for trading might also be a good idea.

Perhaps it could be a regular time and place. Might be something to think about.

_xX_Frosty_Xx_
Oct 31, 2006, 02:53 PM
Hey everyone,

I just got on PSU as a CAST Ranger. I'm enjoying it so far, but I have a question: besides standing around and waiting or using an item to replenish it, is there another way for me to gain PP back in between missions?

Sizzors
Oct 31, 2006, 02:55 PM
On 2006-10-30 11:59, CypherErebus wrote:
Anyone want to start a guild for exchanging ranger weps and stuff?



No, unless it is PSOW only, because the average Internet/XBL user will rip me off.

Guilty-Mirage
Oct 31, 2006, 03:01 PM
Out of random curiosity, what's this "twin one handed weapons regen PP at twice the normal rate" people are talking about? Twin Handgun class weapons get 12 PP back per tick so far as I've noticed, same as everything else. Am I missing something here, or did I just misunderstand?

Itsuki
Oct 31, 2006, 03:29 PM
You misunderstood my statement. I mean if you have a crossbow in one hand and a wand in the other, both are going to be regening like 10 per tick, and thats significantly more than the 12-14 per tick you'd get from a two handed weapon. (twin handguns are a TWO HANDED WEAPON, NOT two one handed weapons)

CypherErebus
Oct 31, 2006, 03:44 PM
On 2006-10-31 11:55, Sizzors wrote:

On 2006-10-30 11:59, CypherErebus wrote:
Anyone want to start a guild for exchanging ranger weps and stuff?



No, unless it is PSOW only, because the average Internet/XBL user will rip me off.



Thats what I meant. A PSOW ranger guild.

Rizen
Nov 1, 2006, 01:25 PM
Im sorry guys for not updating my topic as of late. You can say that I have the "Play PSU or die" syndrome for the last week or so. But its for a good cause. I been testing and playing around with some weapons and playing styles that I was hoping to add to the guide. Also I been playing Force and soon Hunter, so I will make a mini-section of playing as another class through the eye of a ranger (Cause the eyes of a ranger are upon you~) XD

Anyway, I plan on spending some time on Saturday updating the first post because some of the info is outdated or just plan wrong. If you see anything wrong with the first post, let me know and I will change it or check it out.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-11-01 10:32 ]</font>

SailorDaravon
Nov 1, 2006, 01:43 PM
I'm wondering where I should go at thist point: I'm a 35 Ranger Class 9. Right now I have:

5 star dual handguns (Youmei, forget the name) w/ Twin Freeze 20 and Twin Burn 18.

4 star rifle (Youmei, waiting for lucky day to make 5 star) w/Freeze shot 18.

4 star handgun (youmei again) w/Plasma Hit 9.

I don't use the handgun really, I'm just getting it up to lvl10 for possible Hunter purposes later. For everything else I'm wondering what I should do next. As I understand it the first update nerfs status effects, especially ice. I understand that fire is still fairly effective though, which is why I'm getting that up. Aside from that, what else should I be doing next.

I don't really care for shotguns much, although I may check one out later anyway. Mechguns I'm kinda undecided on. Ignoring that though, what other elements should I be going with? Is shock effective at higher ranks later as well?

Also, does dark element do anything right now? It doesn't seem to do damage when I've seen people do it?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SailorDaravon on 2006-11-01 10:55 ]</font>

Kuya
Nov 1, 2006, 02:04 PM
You could be mistaking the dark swirls for dark when they are actually earth, which silences enemies.

Since you have all those bullets leveled, I suggest feeding your PM and/or working on a shotgun bullet. From what I hear, it levels up pretty quickly. I'm at lv15 with plasma shot with rifle and I plan on working on getting shotgun fire shot worked on soon.

The only other thing I can think of is to work on higher level runs for mats or open up a shop. (And make it cheap for us PSOW rangers! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)

Erasure25
Nov 1, 2006, 02:07 PM
LOL she said cheap!...

Kuya
Nov 1, 2006, 02:13 PM
<----- guy

lol - that's it, I'm getting me different avatar http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

SailorDaravon
Nov 1, 2006, 02:17 PM
On 2006-11-01 11:04, Kuya wrote:
You could be mistaking the dark swirls for dark when they are actually earth, which silences enemies.

Since you have all those bullets leveled, I suggest feeding your PM and/or working on a shotgun bullet. From what I hear, it levels up pretty quickly. I'm at lv15 with plasma shot with rifle and I plan on working on getting shotgun fire shot worked on soon.

The only other thing I can think of is to work on higher level runs for mats or open up a shop. (And make it cheap for us PSOW rangers! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)



Yeah, I must've been confusing the swirls for Earth, which means I've never seen anyone use Dark o_o. Is their any particular advantage with dark vs fire that we know of?

And yeah I started feeding my PM seriously yesterday. I'm somewhat hesitant to go w/shotgun for status effects since they get nerfed in the first update, but we'll see. I think I'm going to leave rifle alone right now with Ice, since rifle damage + lvl3 freeze is pretty potent.

Itsuki
Nov 1, 2006, 06:13 PM
I would recommend trying another element for rifle. Perhaps fire or plasma.

Shotgun with plasma actually is rather nice. Especially in later on areas once they're unlocked. As a cast (which I'm assuming you are), the damage on shotguns really isn't bad at all.

Dark isn't online yet, so of course you've never seen anyone use it. But as far as I know, there isn't really any advantage to it other than the fact that it probably stacks with fire.

SailorDaravon
Nov 1, 2006, 06:56 PM
On 2006-11-01 15:13, Itsuki-chan wrote:
I would recommend trying another element for rifle. Perhaps fire or plasma.

Shotgun with plasma actually is rather nice. Especially in later on areas once they're unlocked. As a cast (which I'm assuming you are), the damage on shotguns really isn't bad at all.

Dark isn't online yet, so of course you've never seen anyone use it. But as far as I know, there isn't really any advantage to it other than the fact that it probably stacks with fire.



Whoops, I thought dark was online, and only light was not. And yes, I'm a cast. I really enjoy my dual handguns with Twin Fire, but Shotgun + Plasma sounds like it might be good, especially if ice particuarly gets nerfed in the first update. Shock doesn't wear off from attacks (like ice) correct? I'm assuming at higher ranks it's harder to inflict enemies with it, but the length of time it lasts is still the same?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SailorDaravon on 2006-11-01 15:56 ]</font>

Erasure25
Nov 1, 2006, 07:08 PM
You mentioned ice and shotguns get nerfed in the first update? How so? Sorry if it's been said before... I dun want to look through all these pages...

Dusk21
Nov 1, 2006, 07:11 PM
Shock is odd in that it only stops enemies from attacking, and even then it seems some enemies can still attack, but with only certain attacks. Things like distova and anything with a charging attack (by this I don't mean a headbutt, but rather an attack where they run/fly at a fast pace toward you) can still seem to do that, including the flyers in Parum which can also apparently still use their fire breath. Everything else is rendered fairly useless by it though, and the duration seems much more consistant. Heres the catch though and its why I think I'm actually liking shock more than freeze - while enemies can still move most seem to still just run for you blindly and then hop around since they can't attack. This is absolutely wonderful for dualies, shotguns, and machineguns.

In addition I find that shock lands more often than freeze, however shock of an equivilent level as a freeze seems to have a shorter duration overall. This is not always the case however as enemies can break out of even strong freeze quickly, whereas shock will last a similar amount every time.

Overall freeze is probably the better attack at the moment, what with there being a much higher majority of fire enemies for now and the lack of much of anything earth. Still I'd say shock is most definitely worth it, and its the only consistant shutdown for ice types as well.

Thats my take on shock, hope it helped ya.

Itsuki
Nov 1, 2006, 07:19 PM
I'm assuming at higher ranks it's harder to inflict enemies with it, but the length of time it lasts is still the same?
You have it a bit backwards actually. END makes it both harder to inflict and last shorter. Some monsters you can get the status effect to happen, but it will last almost not at all because of the monster's END.

But this isn't really an issue with plasma. At higher ranks, monsters really don't have notivably different END. And in areas like Linear Line S, it is almost silly how fast you can paralyze things and keep them paralyzed. It makes Linear Line S go from this big bad scary place to a pushover.

I find plasma to be the more useful status effect, with ice being more useful for damage.

SailorDaravon
Nov 1, 2006, 08:18 PM
On 2006-11-01 16:19, Itsuki-chan wrote:

I'm assuming at higher ranks it's harder to inflict enemies with it, but the length of time it lasts is still the same?
You have it a bit backwards actually. END makes it both harder to inflict and last shorter. Some monsters you can get the status effect to happen, but it will last almost not at all because of the monster's END.

But this isn't really an issue with plasma. At higher ranks, monsters really don't have notivably different END. And in areas like Linear Line S, it is almost silly how fast you can paralyze things and keep them paralyzed. It makes Linear Line S go from this big bad scary place to a pushover.

I find plasma to be the more useful status effect, with ice being more useful for damage.



I'm kinda confused by that. If monsters don't have considerably higher END at higher ranks, why is shock preferable to ice? Does it have a naturally higher success rate or something?

Itsuki
Nov 1, 2006, 09:36 PM
shock's success rate is like 3x that of ice (if not more). Its amazingly more efficient. That, and ice just breaks too fast, meaning that you're not really "disabling". This means, the main point of ice would be to put it on something thats not going to get attacked. While on the other hand, paralysis and silence can be applied to the monsters your group is currently fighting and reduce the damage dealt to them and significantly reduce any sort of risk they may be in. Also, you can keep more monsters in the status effect at one time. With dual handguns, you can generally keep 2-3 monsters paralyzed almost continuously. You probably can't keep more than one monster paraylzed unless theres a huge group o fmonsters not being attacked at all.

SailorDaravon
Nov 1, 2006, 10:28 PM
Okay, that makes much more sense. I had assumed that status effects had the same chances across the board, provided they were at the same level (ie. shock lvl3 and ice lvl 3). Okay, sounds good. I'm thinking I'm going to do this, at least for now:

Dual Handguns: Ice (done), Fire (done), Shock
Rifle: Ice (done), Shock?
Shotgun: Shock, Fire?
Handgun: Shock (purely for if I play as a Hunter 1 handed, done)
Mechgun: ???

Should I really even bother putting anything on my rifle other than Ice? Also, are mechguns any good at all or what? Not sure if you know as well, but does Light seem to be any good?

Itsuki
Nov 1, 2006, 11:14 PM
The level of the art actually has NO EFFECT on the success RATE. Atleast to my knowledge and experience (and I have a 2x and a 5x ranger).

Ice actually has the lowest rate by a pretty significant amount, with fire, plasma, and gravity all having more similar rates. This was done pretty early on in the JP version because with ice working so often it was completely broken good. To the point that you could keep the svalatus frozen almost the entire fight (mini-boss at the end of relics). You can still freeze him now, but it takes a lot more work and probably more than one ranger.

And it depends on how much you like rifles. My JP Ranger uses Ice / Plasma on Rifle. My US Ranger uses Ice / Fire.

Fire on shotguns though == pointless. Plasma, gravity, and maybe ice are the choices for shotgun.

SailorDaravon
Nov 1, 2006, 11:26 PM
Man, I've never seen Svalatus frozen, I've done probably 30 or 40 relic runs with dual ice quipped http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Thanks for all the help, that helps me out a TON.

Itsuki
Nov 2, 2006, 12:50 AM
We do it in the japanese version in Agata Relic's S occasioanlly. You fight a svalatus and something far worse than a svalatus at the same time. 2 rangers focusing on one can keep it frozen while the rest of the party kills the other. Though usually we freeze the Latus Jigga. I'm not sure if its necessarily easier to freeze though.

SailorDaravon
Nov 2, 2006, 09:10 AM
Interesting. Not sure if you saw it, but you have any idea if Light element is any good? (that's out in Japan right?) Also, would it be worth it to get up an Earth weapon to do extra damage against Lightning (?) enemies? IIRC there's a few, like the rhino things in Relics. The status effect is a moot point there, but do bullets of the opposite element really do that much more damage? Wondering if I should maybe get Earth on just one weapon just to have it.

Anyway, I REALLY appreciate all the help. I'm the only Ranger out of a large group of friends so I want to make sure I'm doing a good job http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SailorDaravon on 2006-11-02 06:14 ]</font>

Itsuki
Nov 2, 2006, 12:47 PM
Earth is good in certain areas with lots of casters such as some of the neudaiz areas. BUT nowhere else. I keep an earth element, but I find that its not that great for damage.

Really, for those cows in relics, its much more useful to switch to an earth melee weapon than to level an earth PA.

As for light, I would assume its good. But Light and Dark are not in the japanese version. The only PAs that are in the japanese version that are not in the american version are the gi-techs and PAs for the 8 new weapons that were added.

SailorDaravon
Nov 2, 2006, 01:04 PM
Oh, I thought Light/Dark got added in the first update. Earth melee weapon is a good idea, I'll have to synth myself an earth saber of some kind.

Last question I hope: do you find mechguns good at all in PSU? I don't think I've ever seen anyone use them.

JamesKilton
Nov 2, 2006, 01:14 PM
I'm using a MechGun right now. On creatures equal to or lower level it's very effective at being a constant unbreakable stun + damage. 5+ levels above you however, and all I see are 0's with the occasional damage hit.

Also, status effects are pretty short lived. I usually hear the ice breaking before I even see it form o_O.

Frankly, the best use of mech guns is tagging. Strafe while unloading and you'll have no trouble hitting everything at least once.

I'll be switching to a better pistol soon, hopefully something I craft. Mechs, at least at lower levels, aren't worth much.

Kuya
Nov 2, 2006, 01:19 PM
I grinded a GRM Greasegun (2k) up to 6 and yeah - it's not that great. All I'm using it for (until I sell it) is to level the bullet that I bought with it. Other than that, I'm shouldering my rifle almost 100% of the time.

Guilty-Mirage
Nov 2, 2006, 05:49 PM
On 2006-11-02 10:14, JamesKilton wrote:
Also, status effects are pretty short lived. I usually hear the ice breaking before I even see it form o_O.

This is my theory based on what I've seen.

Ice breaks after a certain number of hits (five? six?) land, but until then you have 100% accuracy vs that target. So, if you're using mechguns with freeze bullets, yeah... you'll basically pump out another half dozen rounds by the time you start to see the ice graphic itself, basically rendering the ice effect useless for mechguns as far as I can see.

And to an above conversation, I've never seen a ice bullet freeze Svaltus, ever. Or any boss (or any large creature such as the dinos in Sleeping Warriors) for that matter. Did they allow bosses to be frozen later in the JP version?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Guilty-Mirage on 2006-11-02 14:50 ]</font>

Nani-chan
Nov 2, 2006, 06:04 PM
I've gotten burn to work on the giant rhino enemies in relics when my rifle's burn shot got to lvl 11 (SE 3). Does it take SE 4 to freeze bosses? (If so I will put freeze on my rifle after getting fire to lvl 20)

Erasure25
Nov 2, 2006, 07:14 PM
I find that ice goes off hella on those robot/spider looking mobs on Neudaiz. With Dual Handguns, ice seems to land fairly reliably on them.

Oh and are the only shotguns available from Tenora?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Erasure25 on 2006-11-02 16:15 ]</font>