Force: Force Guide (Thoughts and Experiences)

[Monie]

Links:
Force and Technic Discussion thread:
http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=122405&forum=22&57
Let's talk Technic! Technic discussion:
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=122062&forum=20
Video of Technics:
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=120472&forum=20&35
FORCE and FORTETECHER stat entry on PSUpedia:
http://psupedia.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
Life as a Force and Ranger:
http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=124419&forum=22&7
Quick start guide to leveling up!:
http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=122966&forum=22&41

Introduction:
At first, I was a little discouraged by Force because it's somewhat underappreciated. I have to work really hard to keep people alive but it's only noticable when people die. Hunters seem to become sloppy when FO are in the party... it's very irritating to know they can be avoiding some of the needless damage. Here are my thoughts on FO, I want to eventually convert this into a quazi-guide/force journal when it's not three in the morning...

Also, as a disclaimer, I am a level 20 Force with a level 5 FO job. I have run C rank of all Linear, Parum, Neudaiz, missions, and B rank of Relics and Dragon. This is my perspective from playing these missions.

MEGA-DISCLAIMER!: ALSO, I REALLY HOPE THAT YOU READ ALL THE PAGES TO THIS POST, AS THERE HAS BEEN/WILL BE IMPORTANT DISCUSSION ON FORCE STRATEGY. PLEASE DO NOT SKIP PAGES AND EXPECT TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THE DISCUSSION. Thank you, I really hope this helps.


My thoughts on weapons:
I actually have three sets of weapons. I use a rod with Deega, Radeega, Resta and Reverser. I also use two handgun+wand combinations. One has resta/reverser, the other has deega/redeega. Each combination has their purpose...

Because wand casts faster, I think the usefulness of being able to heal quickly or nuke quickly is invaluable. For example, if my party isn't struggling and loses little life, than I take out my wand with deega/radeega and spam nukes to help things go faster. To be honest there aren't a lot of times I break out my healing wand, however it can be useful for when your group is struggling on onma and dragon and you need to chain heal...

The rod is useful for when you're healing mainly but you have time to sneak in a few hits... basically an all purpose weapon...

PLURSprout says:
"As far as weapons go, I agree with selecting spells of the same element if you're going to go with wands. The 4% bonus makes up for the difference in damage between wands and rods. With that said, the full potential of rods won't be able to be seen until the patch where more spells come out. Once you can chain elements on rods to get a 12% bonus, the difference in speed won't be as big of an issue. In my opinion wands seem like the weapon of choice for quick nuking, but rods are more efficient in the long run. I really haven't seen it necessary yet to go to wands though personally, as I enjoy the variety of spells on my rods (plus it becomes a hazard trying to switch out spells of different elements)."

AngelLight says:
"I personally keep two wands for nuking (one all fire and one all earth). Use my earth one about 80% of the time, switch to fire 20% (basically for ice targets or for real small ones that diga might over shoot over)."



My thoughts on nuking:
To be honest, thus far I've only used Deega and Radeega, and those are the only two I've needed. I haven't seen a lot of wand switching to take advantage of elemental properties yet, probably because it's expensive to buy wands like that, and two, we aren't too familiar with all the weaknesses yet. Let me know what you guys think...

PLURSprout says:
"As far as different spell usage, I've found every spell useful except for zonde. I just like barta better. However there are situations where diga will miss way too often to be used (such as the enemies in relics that enjoy bouncing around and screwing up my precious aim, or just smaller enemies), and should be substituted with something else (I normally use foie). Also, Ra-spells should only be used in situations where the damage would be atleast 1.5 times that of a the normal spell (when you factor in damage*number of enemies hit) in my opinion, otherwise you're not killing anything fast enough to justify the drain in pp. I say beginners should just stick to the basic spells."

AngelLight says:
"Diga is for sure the best single dmg tech out there atm for forces....but there are times that I've seen foie do more damage when hitting an ice target. As for zonde and barta...they will never do more damage then diga, even on a good day...but keep in mind they're multi hit attacks as well (linear multi)."


My thoughts on positioning/boss strategy:
I'd like to see people making use of positioning more... hunters are notorious for being sloppy and pushing mobs everywhere, here are a few observations that might help:

1. Let one person move in first to collect mobs in one spot (mobs will converge on person). Then FO can AOE nuke while other Hunters start to attack. Important part is clustering so constant nuking can take place. PA push mobs willy nilly, however if you stay in the center and don't chase, mobs will come back into the grouping...

2. Dragon: When fighting dragon, Hunters should stay on one side under the dragons head at such an angle that the dragon's breath attack misses even if they keep attacking. Rangers should stay at distance and attack wings and head. Fo should stand behind wings at max distance of resta to hunters. When Dragon rears back, everyone should run away, dragon is going to stomp. Run back in and resume position when he's back down. When he starts to turn around move back a little too...

3. Onma: I don't really run Neudaiz because the exp:time ratio is low. It's more worth it to run Relics and Dragon over and over. Let me know of your strategies...


More Boss Strategies:
AngelLight says:
I'll take this a step further....here's my preference on spells to use on Boss and Sub Boss fights. Note, these are my opinions only:

Vance: Foie or Diga, Diga being slightly more preferable due to dmg output.
Svaltus: Foie (due to the fact I can get 2 off per shockwave attack)
De Ragan: Diga, dmg output
Onma: Handgun/Wand Combo...Handgun with ice to do dmg and to knock out those wings while staying mobile (semi mobile, in and out of FPM) followed up with Diga when the opportunity presents itself for dmg output.
Adahna: Lightning Bow or Lightning Handgun, maybe some Razonde here and there.....but mostly Foie. Very mobile fight, so have to be able to strife and keep moving.
Kaga: Haven't bothered fighting him yet. Heard he's tough for Forces, but we'll see......



My thoughts on healing duties:
I for one am known for keeping my party healed and ready to go. I look at it this way.. if someone messes up my S-rank, that means less job experience and money. However most Force are angry that melee move around too much while fighting, and limited Resta range makes it hard on us. I just ask that Hunters realize how hard it is to aim nukes, while trying to keep tabs on health and running after you for heals. If you need heals, I suggest you remember your forces color on the mini-map and run towards them, because chances are they're looking for you...


Tips on xp:
I know this is a little underhanded, but when I'm struggling to get exp during a mission, I wait a little bit while the hunters attack a group of mobs, and then I spam radeema so I can get the killing blow. I don't condone this however, just letting you know because tagging exp is so damn hard! Hopefully this method will help assuage lost exp when you have no time to tag mobs while healing...


My thoughts on Ranger:
Wow, when there's a ranger in the party, I really can tell the difference. If a good ranger is in the party, I just whip out my nuke wand and go crazy. I really didn't start appreciating rangers til B rank. I think that having at least one ranger in the party is a fantastic idea, I just wanted to have a section of this post dedicated to my respect for Rangers. Please keep it up!


My thoughts on PM:
So far there haven't been any easy ways found to level a pure MND PM. Personally I'm going with a Ranger PM that's pure DEF to synth armor. Highly risky venture to make a pure MND, because we're not sure what high level FO weapons you can synth and if they're worth the investment of millions of meseta. More to come on this...


Thoughts on Weapon Grinding:
PLURSprout says:
"The importance of grinding cannot be said enough. Not only does it increase PP and TAP at a good rate per grind, but if done properly the likelyhood of failing is low. I suggest starting off a new weapon with a Grinder C+1 (since for me the first grind seems impossible to mess up), and then going to atleast +4 or higher(preferably +6) until you hit 4, at which point only use +8 or greater. You'll find that it really helps your staying power, and also creates that difference that allows you to out damage Hunters and Rangers consistently.

With that said don't worry about upgrading your weapons to higher rank unless you have a good reason. Grinding will do you just fine for most of the time, and it can save you money in the long run (do shop around for Grinds though, as some shops try to rip you off with their prices). HOWEVER, I wouldn't suggest grinding until you get at least a 2000 meseta force weapon, because otherwise you're just spending too much money."

I will amend this with CONSTRUCTIVE RESPONSES. Please let me know what you think...

THANKS!:
I also want to make a shout out to Rosaria, Myrkskog, Valinarr, Lightbringer, Nat3zor, and Rei for being awesome party members http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Also special thanks to PLURSprout aka Ukashia for adding important information about grinding, nukes, etc. Thanks to AngelLight for contributing. Thanks to Sodaboy for being cool http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Monie on 2006-10-31 22:01 ]</font>

[Eifersucht]

Bumpz. Yeah this thread is deffinately usefull. Good reference for any starting FO. Monie is one of best FOs ive grouped with, so take this advice. w00t for Monie - MYRKSKOG

[PLURSprout]

I like what you have so far, allow me to share my thoughts as a Newman Force and comment on your experiences.

As far as weapons go, I agree with selecting spells of the same element if you're going to go with wands. The 4% bonus makes up for the difference in damage between wands and rods. With that said, the full potential of rods won't be able to be seen until the patch where more spells come out. Once you can chain elements on rods to get a 12% bonus, the difference in speed won't be as big of an issue. In my opinion wands seem like the weapon of choice for quick nuking, but rods are more efficient in the long run. I really haven't seen it necessary yet to go to wands though personally, as I enjoy the variety of spells on my rods (plus it becomes a hazard trying to switch out spells of different elements).

As far as different spell usage, I've found every spell useful except for zonde. I just like barta better. However there are situations where diga will miss way too often to be used (such as the enemies in relics that enjoy bouncing around and screwing up my precious aim, or just smaller enemies), and should be substituted with something else (I normally use foie). Also, Ra-spells should only be used in situations where the damage would be atleast 1.5 times that of a the normal spell (when you factor in damage*number of enemies hit) in my opinion, otherwise you're not killing anything fast enough to justify the drain in pp. I say beginners should just stick to the basic spells.

As far as healing goes, I agree with you completely. I don't know how many times I've tried to run after a hunter who rather than come to me, goes in the opposite direction, at times getting us both killed. I think that any physical players should note that when you need health it's normally easier in melee to come to the force than expect them to come to you (even with armor, it's hard to make your way to a low hp hunter when enemies take half your hp in a good hit).

As far as XP and Meseta is concerned, I've found that once you get to a suitable level, soloing is a great alternative to getting both. You're guaranteed to hit all the monsters, and while you go slower, you're also getting all of the spoils. I've found that around level 20 soloing the Dragon on C earned me more than my fair share of money, and as a force with good armor all you have to do is stand back and fire away with diga. Also take note that as a force you can serve as an asset to B and A rank missions sooner than Hunters or Rangers, if only because your techs don't miss IF you can actually aim them properly (luckily I haven't noticed a significant speed increase for monsters in PSU). Personally I would only really group for the quick mission XP, because I've found I make more money soloing C ranks than grouping in B.

As far as PM's go, I think that's really one of the things that will seperate the children from the masters as forces. So far I suggest looking at player shops for cheaper force weapons to feed, but it's really not going to be an easy process for us, which I think will thin out the force population, for better and worse.

Ok, now for some additional comments.

The importance of grinding cannot be said enough. Not only does it increase PP and TAP at a good rate per grind, but if done properly the likelyhood of failing is low. I suggest starting off a new weapon with a Grinder C+1 (since for me the first grind seems impossible to mess up), and then going to atleast +4 or higher(preferably +6) until you hit 4, at which point only use +8 or greater. You'll find that it really helps your staying power, and also creates that difference that allows you to out damage Hunters and Rangers consistently.

With that said don't worry about upgrading your weapons to higher rank unless you have a good reason. Grinding will do you just fine for most of the time, and it can save you money in the long run (do shop around for Grinds though, as some shops try to rip you off with their prices). HOWEVER, I wouldn't suggest grinding until you get at least a 2000 meseta force weapon, because otherwise you're just spending too much money.

Don't worry about leveling technics just yet, there simply aren't enough of them for it to be an issue, and they'll eventually level while you're doing missions anyway. Plus it simply gets boring after a while (for me anyway).

If you find you can't tag an enemies quick enough, start partying at B ranks and above, you'll find that the increased levels help keep the enemies around long enough for you to make XP.

Make sure you're party understands that while you're support, they're still expected to make an effort to keep themselves alive. It's hard enough trying to tag and do damage without having to run all over to heal your numb skull team.

Keep a bow handy, you'll do more damage than a simple gun, and some enemies demand you go into first person mode because your techs simply won't hit. (However I find using a gun in first person is sufficient in situations when you may need to suddenly chain heal).

That's all I can think of for now, and don't get discouraged, forces really have the best and worst of both worlds in this game, so it can take some time to get used to them!


PS. If you'd like to group I'm Ukashia, just about the only giant Newman Female in PSU. (It's the boots really)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PLURSprout on 2006-10-30 01:12 ]</font>

[Monie]

Wow Ukashi I'm really impressed by your post, I read it twice and I'll have to sit down and read it again tomorrow when I'm not so dead tired.... thanks for your input! Do you mind if I amend my post with some of your info? I will make sure to give credit.

[PLURSprout]

Feel free, glad I could be of service. (If you can't tell, I really like the magic classes... heehee)

[Monie]

Moi aussi, ma amie.http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

I actually didn't even realize grinding FO weapons was important! So many things to think about (weapons, armor, clothing, experience, PM). I DEFINITELY will get on that tomorrow.

I can't wait til other spells are released to utilize 12% technic power, definitely will see some difference then.

I will definitely look you up, if you see me around stop me and say hi!

[PLURSprout]

Will do! And glad to help a fellow force out!

[Jek]

Interesting information, I didn't know grinding affected our weapons...I thought about when I realized how much my new rod (2000 mes one) affected my spell damage though.

On another note, is anyone else absolutely addicted to Diga? I just love throwing big rocks at enemies, lol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[AngelLight]

Diga is for sure the best single dmg tech out there atm for forces....but there are times that I've seen foie do more damage when hitting an ice target. As for zonde and barta...they will never do more damage then diga, even on a good day...but keep in mind they're multi hit attacks as well (linear multi).

I personally keep two wands for nuking (one all fire and one all earth). Use my earth one about 80% of the time, switch to fire 20% (basically for ice targets or for real small ones that diga might over shoot over).

[Rovest]

I love where this is going but i have one major problem when it comes to playing as a Force. I've got three chars. at level 12-15. Just got my Force with in 200 points of level 16. And i solo'd completely form level 1 to levels 11 on EACH char.... And I find it exstreamly hard to find a team Aiming at level 20 Creatures willing to allow me to come at level 15 but will gladly take a hunter at level 16 over me. I've seen it a dozen times and it really does erk me.

And while i can understand the need for S Rank mission Status. I cant get over how fustrating soloing is compared to teamwork. I have a need for synthing stuff, But I'd rather get Experiance now with parties now and items by soloing later ...

[Tygrus]

Question about bosses: I've only seen De Ragan. What spells do you think I should level to prepare for the other 2 bosses? Right now, Deega and Radeega are my primary spells.

[AngelLight]

Honestly, to the above poster, Diga is going to really hold you over for your single dmg needs.

However, there are situations that should be mentioned.

--Radiga seems to have an easier time of hitting more targets then the other ra spells. That might be cause it casts a little bit faster (very minute), I'm not sure.

--Razonde has a slightly easier time hitting flying enemies. This is because it will actually shoot the bolt right out of the sky (or mid air in the case of indoor places).

--When you get to the Abandoned Temple, zonde type spells do actually help. Not for the damage per se, but for the fact that it procs easier on all the robot mobs (as they're all earth elemental targets). However, be it that it means you should be leveling zonde type spells now or just take the lightning shot bullet skills and put it on your Bow (or handgun should that be your preference, though bow will proc easier then the handgun) is up to the force in question. There's pros and cons to both. Also note that the boss at the temple is also weak to electric attacks (though it's a little harder to get off a spell with him, due to the nature of the fight).

[Len]

the flying demon boss[in neudaiz] also has a niche weakness for diga.the elemental boss in neudai[the one that "has a resistance to technics"} can be hurt in any fashion really, he just absorbs whatever element u r using and uses it back at you.the mech boss in the temple, well he smothered me last time[thanks alot maya http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif] so i can't be of any help there.

personally i use 3 staffs and no wands at all.ill take damage over speed anyday.also a staff's higher tp stat makes my resta actually cure more[it becomes more visible as everyones hp max gets higher]

all my weapons ahve the same layout, foie on x, diga on y, reverser on r+y and resta on r+x.when im not on neudaiz ill swap out reverser on one staff to put in a ra spell[radiga or rafoie depending on what i feel like].i always keep a bow on me and for extreme emergencies, i have a gun and bulb equipped as well for those times that an extra rising strike is needed.

[AngelLight]

I'll take this a step further....here's my preference on spells to use on Boss and Sub Boss fights. Note, these are my opinions only:

Vance: Foie or Diga, Diga being slightly more preferable due to dmg output.
Svaltus: Foie (due to the fact I can get 2 off per shockwave attack)
De Ragan: Diga, dmg output
Onma: Handgun/Wand Combo...Handgun with ice to do dmg and to knock out those wings while staying mobile (semi mobile, in and out of FPM) followed up with Diga when the opportunity presents itself for dmg output.
Adahna: Lightning Bow or Lightning Handgun, maybe some Razonde here and there.....but mostly Foie. Very mobile fight, so have to be able to strife and keep moving.
Kaga: Haven't bothered fighting him yet. Heard he's tough for Forces, but we'll see......

[KirinDave]

Don't be too quick to dismiss wands just because you see higher numbers. The ability to quickly tag, to be able to do a small amount of damage to finish a mob off, and the ability to spam-cast (May not seem useful with Foie, but once it hits level 10 you see) quickly is really useful in a variety of situations.

It's obvious that the game designers thought about forces and their weapons fairly carefully, because it doesn't seem like either casting weapon type has an overwhelming advantage.

[pso123hrf]

BuMp

w00t 20/20 on the post!

Monie, wut universe are you located in? My forces name is: (points to comment) and im stuck farming at Unsafe Passage C and Fight for food C.

[Monie]

I edited in your information boss strat AngelLight, thank you for contributing!

I agree about the speed of the wand, I think the speed and delay of the rod actually can get you into some stick situations and I'm hesitant to use it when i need to act fast. I'd rather quick switch between a healing and nuking wand, actually, because of the delay difference. The damage from the rod is nice I agree, but I only recommend it for situations where you don't need finesse. One thing I'll say about it, I run out of PP like mad on boss fights with a wand, I find that to be dangerous as well.

Also a thing about the bow... the reason I'm afraid to say anything about it is that I don't think switching to bow in the middle of a fight is safe. I feel uncomfortable without Resta on my wand/rod. You might say it's useful for when Onma or the Dragon flies around, I agree it can be useful. But I'm wary of using it if my team might have trouble. I've found that if you get knocked down... even if you don't finish your cast animation, Resta will still hit (maybe this is a result of lag?). That way, for example, if you somehow get knocked down after a stomp from the dragon or something, you can get the resta off as you fall down and prevent a two hit KO from the dragon's next attack as you're getting up. What do you guys think?

[Monie]

On 2006-10-30 14:42, pso123hrf wrote:
BuMp

w00t 20/20 on the post!

Monie, wut universe are you located in? My forces name is: (points to comment) and im stuck farming at Unsafe Passage C and Fight for food C.



I play on Universe 1, 5, and recently 15 along with the other PSOW'ers. Are you having trouble finding Parum/doing Sleeping Overlords? If you send me a PM and set up a meeting time, I'll give you my Partner Card and try to help out http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I've been pretty busy with exams and stuff, but I'll find time to get online sometime http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

EDIT:
Also, there's a quick-leveling guide floating around that basically got me to where I am now (level 20). I definitely owe the person who posted that a fruit basket. I'll add it to the links so that everyone can see!


On 2006-10-30 10:04, Rovest wrote:
I love where this is going but i have one major problem when it comes to playing as a Force. I've got three chars. at level 12-15. Just got my Force with in 200 points of level 16. And i solo'd completely form level 1 to levels 11 on EACH char.... And I find it exstreamly hard to find a team Aiming at level 20 Creatures willing to allow me to come at level 15 but will gladly take a hunter at level 16 over me. I've seen it a dozen times and it really does erk me.

And while i can understand the need for S Rank mission Status. I cant get over how fustrating soloing is compared to teamwork. I have a need for synthing stuff, But I'd rather get Experiance now with parties now and items by soloing later ...



I've never seen a Hunter picked over a Force in any circumstance... and I've always gotten huge welcomes when I join parties... if I had a nickel for everytime I've heard "OMG SO GLAD A FORCE JOINED", I'd have a lot of nickels. That being said, maybe you're playing on the wrong server. Something is wrong if people aren't appreciating you in their parties even at that low a level.


On 2006-10-30 11:47, Tygrus wrote:
Question about bosses: I've only seen De Ragan. What spells do you think I should level to prepare for the other 2 bosses? Right now, Deega and Radeega are my primary spells.



I use solely Deega for all bosses, even Dragon despite knowing his weakness to ice. I've just never bothered to level anything else. As I start to level up more and get more time experiment with the elements, I'll probably deal more with it. But from what I've experienced so far, Deega is all you need due to it's raw power.


On 2006-10-30 12:03, AngelLight wrote:
Honestly, to the above poster, Diga is going to really hold you over for your single dmg needs.

However, there are situations that should be mentioned.

--Radiga seems to have an easier time of hitting more targets then the other ra spells. That might be cause it casts a little bit faster (very minute), I'm not sure.

--Razonde has a slightly easier time hitting flying enemies. This is because it will actually shoot the bolt right out of the sky (or mid air in the case of indoor places).

--When you get to the Abandoned Temple, zonde type spells do actually help. Not for the damage per se, but for the fact that it procs easier on all the robot mobs (as they're all earth elemental targets). However, be it that it means you should be leveling zonde type spells now or just take the lightning shot bullet skills and put it on your Bow (or handgun should that be your preference, though bow will proc easier then the handgun) is up to the force in question. There's pros and cons to both. Also note that the boss at the temple is also weak to electric attacks (though it's a little harder to get off a spell with him, due to the nature of the fight).



Thanks for mentioning your exploits with the Zonde and Razonde, I'd like to try it out for myself. I've had trouble tagging flying mobs too and end up missing out on the experience points. I'll edit in my experiences with the other elements and elemental weaknesses when I get to it. But seriously, I think bottom line is you can get away with Deega for now in almost all cases.

EDIT:
As higher difficulties come out, this will probably change because of elemental defenses and weaknesses. We just don't know yet. Please note that I say UNTIL THEN DEEGA IS ACCEPTABLE!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Monie on 2006-10-30 15:44 ]</font>

[TrueForce]

i havent found diga useful, i have foei level 13 barta level 6 and rafoei at levle 7, it seems quite easy to use rafoei and when burn works it does a lot of help, so does the freeze, my foei can crit up to 300 which i personally think is well.
Is it really necesary to get diga?

[PLURSprout]

It's not necessary, it's more about your own play style, I would suggest trying out all of the techs at this point, since you're not going to get anywhere near the 36 PA limit yet. That way you can decide which techs work for you. (I would personally suggest taking an earth or lightning spell just for variety if nothing else though).

[DeRolLe]

Excellent guide, filled with great information. A few things I disagree on (just my opinion) though, are that rods are more efficient than handgun/wand combo, and that theres not really that much of a difference in techs.

Why handgun/wand? Exp + meseta reasons. You could sit back and do nothing when your rod is out of pp, or you could get a decent handgun to match your wands elemental ability (ie, burning hit with your foie/rafoie wand). This way, when your in a party with those hunters that love to boot kick monsters all over the place, your not stuck doing little to nothing. While plugging away with your handgun may seem like chump change,it DOES hit faster, giving you less of an exp disadvantage over those darned Hunters (faster hitting weapons are going to give you the killing blow more often which = more exp). You'll spend a good bit less at the photon recharge station as you have 2 weapons in your hands charging pp, instead of one big one. ( my charge bills dropped from around 4-500 meseta to 60 something. My PM thanks me for the extra food heh)

I'll pull out my big rod and heavy damage single target spells against bosses because I like to see big numbers too, but I feel like in a group your best bet will be handgun/wand combo. Possibly upgraded by card/wand combo when they are available to us.

About Diga/Foie- Great spells to see those big crits that give you that feeling that all is right in the world. Pounding someone for 4-500ish while everyone else is struggling over 150 gives me a superiority complex. However, if I drop barta/zonde on a 3 to 4 pack of monsters I've given my self many more chances at applying a negative status and probably done just as much if not more than diga or radiga would have done.

Positioning? Strafe is your friend, especially when your handgun/wand using linear attacks (barta/zonde). Don't just run into a room flinging sparks everywhere and hoping for the best. Go in and move off to the side of your hunter and let the mobs move to him. Just before they get there, unleash your icey fury, thunderous wrath just in front of your tank and giggle inside at the damage your putting up. It might not look like much until you multiply your damage done by mobs hit. Hitting 4-5 guys with one spell often nets you around 900-1000 damage, far more effecient than foie/diga.

So my 2 cents? Early game-foie/diga till you get the ropes down. Later on Barta/zonde once you master strafing and shooting.

De Rol Le lvl 35+ rank 9 FO 360.

[Alisha]

hi im a beast hunter and havent played online yet but why do hunters depend on fo's so much for heals? my beast has over 1600 hp so..... unless a fo has been actively leveling resta i think mates would be of more use. in order to be in yellow hp i need to be down to around 500 hp im thinking resta would need to be quite high to heal for 1k.

[AngelLight]

Later on in life when Fos get Giresta....you're going to constantly want a Fo around to just do that for you.

If you ever go wartecher later, megiverse will be your friend I'd imagine (assuming it's a good drain range, much like a DRK from FFXI).

As for now....yeah keep your mates on and have the Fo help out between fights on the heals.

[Talin]

Can someone provide some detailed information on how the "Ra" series of spells compare to one another, as well as how their evolution works?

I've been using Rabarta to hit crowds of enemies and help proc the "freeze" status to help groups take down enemies. The downside is that Rabarta has relatively low damage, and is only marignally more useful than Barta (at double the PP cost) - it hits 3 enemies in a narrow horizontal space (at lvl 7) while Barta hits several (not sure of the cap) in a straight line.

I'm curious about how effective Radiga is in terms of aiming (since the base Diga spell can get annoying) and if it functions in the same small AoE like Rabarta does. In addition, I was wondering how much larger the blast radius becomes at lvl 11 (the first evolution, I believe) and then again at 21 (which is currently locked and could only be answered by someone who has played the JP versio extensively).

Based on my 20-odd hours of playing so far, Diga does seem to be the "overall" best attack technic for a Force, with its high damage multiplier and limited enemy resists. What do you think the best AoE spell is right now?

[AngelLight]

I do about 104-160 average with Radiga at level 5 or 6 I think. For me, it seems it may hit slightly faster then the other Ra spells as I always seem to have better luck getting my 3 targets tagged with it over all the other Ra spells. That's not scientific info however....just a personal opinion. I dont think it does silence however (since it's not on the description)....so should that be an issue....

[Talin]

On 2006-10-31 12:08, AngelLight wrote:
I do about 104-160 average with Radiga at level 5 or 6 I think. For me, it seems it may hit slightly faster then the other Ra spells as I always seem to have better luck getting my 3 targets tagged with it over all the other Ra spells. That's not scientific info however....just a personal opinion. I dont think it does silence however (since it's not on the description)....so should that be an issue....



I believe I read somewhere that the "Ra" series of spells either have a lower chance of proccing the respective status effect, or it will not proc at all until a certain level rank of the technic is obtained. Can anyone confirm/deny?

[AngelLight]

I know they level their proc effect slower yes.....as for not procing till later, IDK.

[PLURSprout]

On 2006-10-31 10:46, DeRolLe wrote:
Why handgun/wand? Exp + meseta reasons. You could sit back and do nothing when your rod is out of pp, or you could get a decent handgun to match your wands elemental ability (ie, burning hit with your foie/rafoie wand). This way, when your in a party with those hunters that love to boot kick monsters all over the place, your not stuck doing little to nothing. While plugging away with your handgun may seem like chump change,it DOES hit faster, giving you less of an exp disadvantage over those darned Hunters (faster hitting weapons are going to give you the killing blow more often which = more exp). You'll spend a good bit less at the photon recharge station as you have 2 weapons in your hands charging pp, instead of one big one. ( my charge bills dropped from around 4-500 meseta to 60 something. My PM thanks me for the extra food heh)


I admit, my photon charge bills can run around 150-200, but my grinded rods can do more than enough damage to make up for the wands ability to give fast burst damage. As far as guns go, I find them to be a waste of time other than tagging, which I don't find to be a huge issue past C ranks if you use Ra-spells ocassionally, and with leveled techs I normally don't have a horrible time getting status effects to proc. If I want a ranged weapon I'd just go with a bow personally. Also, keep in mind to work effectively with a wand and gun, you need to grind them, which takes more time and effort than grinding one rod. Also, keep in mind that rods offer more variety in tech choice, so you can easily switch to a different tech when the need arises other than having to wait to switch weapons.


On 2006-10-31 10:46, DeRolLe wrote:
I'll pull out my big rod and heavy damage single target spells against bosses because I like to see big numbers too, but I feel like in a group your best bet will be handgun/wand combo. Possibly upgraded by card/wand combo when they are available to us.


See, I've found that I always wanted the quick burst damage of a wand during bosses. I figured that the intense drain of PP wouldn't be an issue if you could kill it before you ran out. And have seen videos of cards, I think I would just stay with the handguns.


On 2006-10-31 10:46, DeRolLe wrote:
About Diga/Foie- Great spells to see those big crits that give you that feeling that all is right in the world. Pounding someone for 4-500ish while everyone else is struggling over 150 gives me a superiority complex. However, if I drop barta/zonde on a 3 to 4 pack of monsters I've given my self many more chances at applying a negative status and probably done just as much if not more than diga or radiga would have done.


Depends on how you're playing really, if you're soloing zonde and barta really show their effectiveness, since you can easily get the monsters to line up properly. However in most groups you aren't afforded that opportunity, and so your best bet for damaging multiple mobs is to either switch to RA's or your best single damage spell.


On 2006-10-31 10:46, DeRolLe wrote:
Positioning? Strafe is your friend, especially when your handgun/wand using linear attacks (barta/zonde). Don't just run into a room flinging sparks everywhere and hoping for the best. Go in and move off to the side of your hunter and let the mobs move to him. Just before they get there, unleash your icey fury, thunderous wrath just in front of your tank and giggle inside at the damage your putting up. It might not look like much until you multiply your damage done by mobs hit. Hitting 4-5 guys with one spell often nets you around 900-1000 damage, far more effecient than foie/diga.


As far as positioning it's harder when you've got enemies that move rapidly. Strafing isn't the only thing that you're going to need to hit some mobs, you have to have an advanced knowledge of how the tech works, because all the positioning in the world won't help if you spam diga without realize it's too slow to hit certain enemies before they move.


I agree with a lot of what you're saying though, I just think that in the end it's up to personal play style. Except for the grinding. Really.

[Rosaria]

I don't know, overall a good ranger in the party is SO rare. Anyway, great post~

[Monie]

So grinded my 5* rod today ... and wow, what a difference it makes. I'm critting for 700 with diga and regularly hit for 300 with RaDiga on earth weak enemies (level 24, FO5). Pleasantly pleased. I've yet to make a 5* grinded wand, I'm sure it'll burn a hole in my wallet. We'll see how it goes.

As far as Radiga/diga versus other spells go, I think we need to ask ourselves... what are we looking for. SE vs DAMAGE. Are we there to replace the RA's job if RA is not there? I think the literal meaning to nukes is to deal damage, but in PSU nukes also bring SE to the table, so we need to consider both. I think we should start to discuss nuke damage vs. SE and the benefits. If you're bringing damage to the table, you're supporting the party with that much more damage. If you're bringing SE to the table (with barta/zonde), you're bring a fraction of that damage, but also bringing SE to the table. SE helps to keep the party from harm, but you also have Resta, which in terms of PP is pretty much a drop in the bucket. From this argument I think DAMAGE is the way to go. Discuss?

I also agree with whoever was saying that when hunters are in the party, mobs are everywhere, which means you can line up enemies like when you're soloing. In that respect, I think that BARTA and ZONDE are weak in parties. I think that Rabarta can be useful, I don't exactly use it, however. Foie is a great spell and should be used. I'm gonna go ahead and say that:

Rod: DIGA, RADIGA, RESTA, REVERSER (2x)
Rod: FOIE, RAFOIE, RESTA, REVERSER (2x)
Handgun + Wand: DIGA, RADIGA
Handgun + Wand: FOIE, RAFOIE

is the weapon set that is ideal at the moment. Rods are for all-purpose, and the wands are in the cases where you wish to spam damage. This is from the point where we only have 12 PA to our use. Let me know what you think.


On 2006-10-31 12:23, Talin wrote:

On 2006-10-31 12:08, AngelLight wrote:
I do about 104-160 average with Radiga at level 5 or 6 I think. For me, it seems it may hit slightly faster then the other Ra spells as I always seem to have better luck getting my 3 targets tagged with it over all the other Ra spells. That's not scientific info however....just a personal opinion. I dont think it does silence however (since it's not on the description)....so should that be an issue....



I believe I read somewhere that the "Ra" series of spells either have a lower chance of proccing the respective status effect, or it will not proc at all until a certain level rank of the technic is obtained. Can anyone confirm/deny?



This is curious, I'm interesting in knowing as well. Barta and Rabarta for example are both multi-hit, I wonder what is the purpose of having their proc rate different.


On 2006-10-31 10:46, DeRolLe wrote:
Excellent guide, filled with great information. A few things I disagree on (just my opinion) though, are that rods are more efficient than handgun/wand combo, and that theres not really that much of a difference in techs.

Why handgun/wand? Exp + meseta reasons. You could sit back and do nothing when your rod is out of pp, or you could get a decent handgun to match your wands elemental ability (ie, burning hit with your foie/rafoie wand). This way, when your in a party with those hunters that love to boot kick monsters all over the place, your not stuck doing little to nothing. While plugging away with your handgun may seem like chump change,it DOES hit faster, giving you less of an exp disadvantage over those darned Hunters (faster hitting weapons are going to give you the killing blow more often which = more exp). You'll spend a good bit less at the photon recharge station as you have 2 weapons in your hands charging pp, instead of one big one. ( my charge bills dropped from around 4-500 meseta to 60 something. My PM thanks me for the extra food heh)

I'll pull out my big rod and heavy damage single target spells against bosses because I like to see big numbers too, but I feel like in a group your best bet will be handgun/wand combo. Possibly upgraded by card/wand combo when they are available to us.

About Diga/Foie- Great spells to see those big crits that give you that feeling that all is right in the world. Pounding someone for 4-500ish while everyone else is struggling over 150 gives me a superiority complex. However, if I drop barta/zonde on a 3 to 4 pack of monsters I've given my self many more chances at applying a negative status and probably done just as much if not more than diga or radiga would have done.

Positioning? Strafe is your friend, especially when your handgun/wand using linear attacks (barta/zonde). Don't just run into a room flinging sparks everywhere and hoping for the best. Go in and move off to the side of your hunter and let the mobs move to him. Just before they get there, unleash your icey fury, thunderous wrath just in front of your tank and giggle inside at the damage your putting up. It might not look like much until you multiply your damage done by mobs hit. Hitting 4-5 guys with one spell often nets you around 900-1000 damage, far more effecient than foie/diga.

So my 2 cents? Early game-foie/diga till you get the ropes down. Later on Barta/zonde once you master strafing and shooting.

De Rol Le lvl 35+ rank 9 FO 360.



I don't quite understand your opinion on wand vs rod. Are you for wand? In my post I agreed that wands are invaluable in certain situations. Also it's hard to tag flying mobs without a handgun (unless you're using Razonde, which I don't).

EDIT:
Please let me know your opinions on that weapon set, I'll add it to the guide once I get a few opinions and can tweak it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Monie on 2006-10-31 21:12 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Monie on 2006-10-31 21:25 ]</font>

[Monie]

On 2006-10-31 13:18, Rosaria wrote:
I don't know, overall a good ranger in the party is SO rare. Anyway, great post~



Agreed Rose, I've seen maybe one or two that realllllly made a difference. I applaud those people, and I'd really like to see some advancement in RA strategy and technique.

[DeRolLe]

I guess if I was forced to choose between wands and rods I'd go with the wands. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif As it's been said before, until we see all 4 attacks from each element, I feel that the damage differential might make me reach for the rod more often, but right now, I'll say I prefer the faster attacks. That doesn't make me right, just makes me prefer it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I would never try and kill a monster with my handgun, but I will try to get my share of killshots with them. Its low damage yes, but you get nearly 3 chances at the kill compared to one with a spell. Get a grinder on it, and learn the elemental bullet skills, you can hit for 40-50 damage.

As for my choice of spells-I guess I could see where in a public group, diga and foie might be a better bet, as most folks will knock down/away monsters, giving more opportunity for single target spells to stretch thier legs. In a static, or force friendly group, the hunters will tank and trust me to heal, giving up some seriously good targets for those linear spells.

I'm not sure what I said about grinders that would make you think I was against them? I certainly won't try to argue that they don't make a difference, or that you shouldn't try. ;P

As for my comments on your spell lists, well, everybody has thier own favorites. I'd try and stick barta in there somewhere for sure, and zonde to be complete for the grove mission on neudiaz.

[PLURSprout]

Oh, you never said anything against grinders, just impressing upon the group how if they've never tried it they need to go and do it NOW! Like I said before, everything else is personal play style, and if you actually can find a really coordinated group I wouldn't be surprised if you spam barta and zonde and do rediculous amounts of damage. I guess that's where the voice chat comes in.

[Monie]

On 2006-10-31 23:53, DeRolLe wrote:
I guess if I was forced to choose between wands and rods I'd go with the wands. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif As it's been said before, until we see all 4 attacks from each element, I feel that the damage differential might make me reach for the rod more often, but right now, I'll say I prefer the faster attacks. That doesn't make me right, just makes me prefer it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I would never try and kill a monster with my handgun, but I will try to get my share of killshots with them. Its low damage yes, but you get nearly 3 chances at the kill compared to one with a spell. Get a grinder on it, and learn the elemental bullet skills, you can hit for 40-50 damage.

As for my choice of spells-I guess I could see where in a public group, diga and foie might be a better bet, as most folks will knock down/away monsters, giving more opportunity for single target spells to stretch thier legs. In a static, or force friendly group, the hunters will tank and trust me to heal, giving up some seriously good targets for those linear spells.

I'm not sure what I said about grinders that would make you think I was against them? I certainly won't try to argue that they don't make a difference, or that you shouldn't try. ;P

As for my comments on your spell lists, well, everybody has thier own favorites. I'd try and stick barta in there somewhere for sure, and zonde to be complete for the grove mission on neudiaz.




About the public vs static groups: I don't know if it's plausible to say Hunters will tank and let the Force do all the damage. I think it's quicker for the Hunters to spam PA in a small circle while Force do their best to Radiga the center of that circle. I don't think Hunter will give up their exp/damage just to spend the time to line up mobs for the Forces and be essentially meatshields. I feel if I don't expect forces to be healbots, I don't expect hunters to be meatshields. Have you used this strategy in an actual static? Let me know your experiences of public vs static.

[AngelLight]

Coordinated strikes from spot on parties will always win out over just "hope everyone can tag it in time type things. But, good luck finding that from a PuG. But yeah, it's only fair that if no one pigeonholes you into a healbot role, that you can't pigeonhole a hunter into a meatshield role either. Turnabout is fair play as they say.....

[b3n]

Monie your a noob force expert wannabe. Noobs shouldnt be making guides and reviews.

[Carlo210]

I usally find the monsters homing in on the hunters, so I think Ra technics would be fine.

[PhantasyK2]

On 2006-11-01 08:37, b3n wrote:
Monie your a noob force expert wannabe. Noobs shouldnt be making guides and reviews.



Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

This thread ROCKS!

[DeRolLe]

It's not about expecting your hunters to be meatshields, or your force to be a healbot. A good party will use teamwork and coordination to get the job one. Not every situation will be the same, but my mates know if they can keep the mobs together and not knockback, they die so fast from thier dagger PA, my technic spam that healing/tanking required is minimal.


They still put out great damage, it just lets me put it out too, and not to mention I rarely have to chase people down for the resta.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DeRolLe on 2006-11-01 12:34 ]</font>

[PLURSprout]

On 2006-11-01 08:37, b3n wrote:
Monie your a noob force expert wannabe. Noobs shouldnt be making guides and reviews.



Wow, your amazing use of vocabulary and misuse of 1337 boggles the mind. Impressive, I must say... because honestly the most you could have been playing is what, a week?

Back on topic, anyone else tried soloing with forces? If so, got any tips for the gang?

[PlainShane]

I tend to find a soloing Hunter and share. They always want a healer and I always want a tank.

Soloing for a force, so far, is not too fun and takes quite a bit of time. With a hunter a few levels higher it makes for quick runs which equates to S Rank finalizations!

[AngelLight]

Hmmm, honestly I dont really have a problem soloing as a Force, but alot of people dont like it. I'm not really sure why to be honest.

I will say this.....Soloing as a Force is not something that you can snooze doing. You have to be very proactive and always ready to move. It's tough and it does require someone to refine themselves to an "A-Game Mentality" since it doesn't take too many mistakes to get yourself killed. I think the Job description is fairly right on about the profession.

It's worthwhile to solo and it's a good test of skills.....also, soloing is always good for skill leveling. But if you can do it, try to find a party for larger mission issues (such as missions with major bosses). While you can solo major bosses as a force, they do tend to take some time to do.

[TrueForce]

can someone please explain to me where and how i grind my rod? i have yet to understand

[DeRolLe]

On 2006-11-01 06:20, Monie wrote:
About the public vs static groups: I don't know if it's plausible to say Hunters will tank and let the Force do all the damage. I think it's quicker for the Hunters to spam PA in a small circle while Force do their best to Radiga the center of that circle. I don't think Hunter will give up their exp/damage just to spend the time to line up mobs for the Forces and be essentially meatshields. I feel if I don't expect forces to be healbots, I don't expect hunters to be meatshields. Have you used this strategy in an actual static? Let me know your experiences of public vs static.



I don't get to stay in a lot of public groups, as I am very lucky to have a very talented static group of 3 friends playing hunters. Most public games have actually been pretty unsporting due to my level, even if I'm just trying to push through to the field base, or just feel like helping out. In those that I do get in, it's a frenzy of item whoring and monsters flying-Not exactly our most efficient situation. It's usually hunters that are smart enough to know that if you kick the mob away from the group, you have a much higher chance of getting whatever dropped.

They pretty much stay in a fairly tight group, and spam the twin dagger/dagger technic and forgoe using the finisher that knocks away. This is the big part as these mobs are mostly stuck in a tight pack, and are getting smoked by 3 person daggerspam.

Things dying that fast decrease pp costs for me, as I really only have time to toss 2-3 spells in thier direction before everything is a bloody mess on the floor/walls.

About the only other thing I can say about the linear spells is just learn how and where monsters spawn They are pretty much spawn in a pattern that will let you exploit linear spells and don't move for a second or two. Some mobs aren't going to be linear friendly (those hopping guys in sleeping warriors come to mind) but since we are only playing with a small portion of spells in our lists it's to be expected we aren't going to be able to do our optimal damage in every situation.

[Cell132]

Okay, First off, I am primarily a Hunter. I could give a dynamite FO in Blue Burst, but I can't just yet in PSU. So, believe me, I understand how hard it is to FO.

Now, with that said, I'll add my experiences with Forces and Rangers and the like.

First, I'll talk about the Force experiences I've had. I read in that post about how hard it is to run around, aim yer attacks, and run to find the hunters and heal them. I turned my Hunter to a force fer like, 4 hours, and I understand this. However at the same time, I have seen some things to help with this. Communication is one, it may seem too simple at first, but It works well. I have a friend who FOs, and she'll say "Gather for a Heal!" And the whole party gathers for a second as she heals everyone. This I think, works best, but yeah, sometimes it's hard to find that one person who doesn't want to cooperate.

Okay, I also read about Hunters getting sloppy with a force around. I for one, cannot deny this, and refuse to defend it cause it's definately true. However at the same time, I have to disagree with a small thing. Most hunters forget, or don't even know their true job, which is to be in the front lines protecting the players behind them. Now, when I am attempting to do this, I many times see the force placing themselves into unessisary danger, or One or two breaks the front line and go for them. Depending on the reaction time, I will usually act as the meat shield. I'll take the hit for them the brunt of the time and kinda signal em to back away. So sometimes, it ain't always that we are just getting sloppy, it's just choosing priorities. I especially do this fer lower level players as well. Cause as I read in yer post, they die, and MY rank and meseta go down.

Now, as far as forces being underappreciated, I agree. EXTREMELY. One person dies, then all eyes go to the force. It's really annoying at times, especially when it's some dumb hot shot who took on more than he can handle. Honestly, I try to get as many force partner cards as possible. The brunt of them, are forces, and most of my friends are forces too.

I have also noticed how hard support is at the moment as well with only Resta and Reverser. This just doesn't cut it in my opinion. Yes, they are definately ESSENTIAL, BUT, Spells like Shifta, Deband , etc. in the long run, cut down on how much these spells are used and make things much easier.



Um... ...Rangers. I've only seen one noticable ranger sadly. Though, everything went much easier with 'em there. He froze sumthin like every 4 or so hits. I liked that alot. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


But anyway, just some of my thoughts to add to this. I also liked the idea of running under the head. Sadly, I never thought of that when it seems so obvious ta me now. I'll have ta try that out when I gots the time.

[PlainShane]

Bump. Very informative thread.

[Monie]

On 2006-11-01 12:32, DeRolLe wrote:
It's not about expecting your hunters to be meatshields, or your force to be a healbot. A good party will use teamwork and coordination to get the job one. Not every situation will be the same, but my mates know if they can keep the mobs together and not knockback, they die so fast from thier dagger PA, my technic spam that healing/tanking required is minimal.


They still put out great damage, it just lets me put it out too, and not to mention I rarely have to chase people down for the resta.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DeRolLe on 2006-11-01 12:34 ]</font>


I haven't gotten into a static per se yet.. but I've been playing with a bunch of "regulars". I think efficiency wise we could do better, but after doing dragon runs SO many times, I just don't care anymore. Getting the S rank is my 'all important'. Nevertheless, I think it's still important to talk about party strategy and force strategy.


On 2006-11-01 12:33, PLURSprout wrote:

On 2006-11-01 08:37, b3n wrote:
Monie your a noob force expert wannabe. Noobs shouldnt be making guides and reviews.



Wow, your amazing use of vocabulary and misuse of 1337 boggles the mind. Impressive, I must say... because honestly the most you could have been playing is what, a week?

Back on topic, anyone else tried soloing with forces? If so, got any tips for the gang?



The guy that posted below you has it right. Usually mobs converge on your 'partner' because he's out front, making it easy to nuke the crowd. I don't think Force is meant to solo in this game, mainly because of the cap on number of creatures Ra- spells can hit. But besides that I'm not sure why you'd solo besides just getting away from all the annoying players there seem to be already (I definitely get you there). Reasons to solo: money, money, money, MAYBE skill leveling. Except skill leveling would be painfully slow because of lack of damage. But this is what I do: keep running Relics C over and over. It's pretty good money if that's what you're looking for.


On 2006-11-01 16:57, TrueForce wrote:
can someone please explain to me where and how i grind my rod? i have yet to understand



Buy yourself 1 Grinder (your weapons class rank here) + 1, 3 Grinder (your weapons class rank here) + 6, and 6 Grinder (your weapons class rank here) + 8s. Or as far as you want to grind. Go to the city where your weapons manufacturer resides, eg. if it's Yohmei, go to Ohtoku City. Go to the main shop where they sell weapons/armor/disks/items. One of the disks will ask if you want a weapon upgrade. Start with the lowest grinder and work your way up. Let me know if you need additional explanation.


On 2006-11-01 17:29, DeRolLe wrote:

On 2006-11-01 06:20, Monie wrote:
About the public vs static groups: I don't know if it's plausible to say Hunters will tank and let the Force do all the damage. I think it's quicker for the Hunters to spam PA in a small circle while Force do their best to Radiga the center of that circle. I don't think Hunter will give up their exp/damage just to spend the time to line up mobs for the Forces and be essentially meatshields. I feel if I don't expect forces to be healbots, I don't expect hunters to be meatshields. Have you used this strategy in an actual static? Let me know your experiences of public vs static.



I don't get to stay in a lot of public groups, as I am very lucky to have a very talented static group of 3 friends playing hunters. Most public games have actually been pretty unsporting due to my level, even if I'm just trying to push through to the field base, or just feel like helping out. In those that I do get in, it's a frenzy of item whoring and monsters flying-Not exactly our most efficient situation. It's usually hunters that are smart enough to know that if you kick the mob away from the group, you have a much higher chance of getting whatever dropped.

They pretty much stay in a fairly tight group, and spam the twin dagger/dagger technic and forgoe using the finisher that knocks away. This is the big part as these mobs are mostly stuck in a tight pack, and are getting smoked by 3 person daggerspam.

Things dying that fast decrease pp costs for me, as I really only have time to toss 2-3 spells in thier direction before everything is a bloody mess on the floor/walls.

About the only other thing I can say about the linear spells is just learn how and where monsters spawn They are pretty much spawn in a pattern that will let you exploit linear spells and don't move for a second or two. Some mobs aren't going to be linear friendly (those hopping guys in sleeping warriors come to mind) but since we are only playing with a small portion of spells in our lists it's to be expected we aren't going to be able to do our optimal damage in every situation.



This is a very good explanation of private group strategy. I'll definitely add this later today after I wake up. I, too, love the twin Dagger PA. So good!


On 2006-11-01 18:13, Cell132 wrote:
Okay, First off, I am primarily a Hunter. I could give a dynamite FO in Blue Burst, but I can't just yet in PSU. So, believe me, I understand how hard it is to FO.

Now, with that said, I'll add my experiences with Forces and Rangers and the like.

First, I'll talk about the Force experiences I've had. I read in that post about how hard it is to run around, aim yer attacks, and run to find the hunters and heal them. I turned my Hunter to a force fer like, 4 hours, and I understand this. However at the same time, I have seen some things to help with this. Communication is one, it may seem too simple at first, but It works well. I have a friend who FOs, and she'll say "Gather for a Heal!" And the whole party gathers for a second as she heals everyone. This I think, works best, but yeah, sometimes it's hard to find that one person who doesn't want to cooperate.

Okay, I also read about Hunters getting sloppy with a force around. I for one, cannot deny this, and refuse to defend it cause it's definately true. However at the same time, I have to disagree with a small thing. Most hunters forget, or don't even know their true job, which is to be in the front lines protecting the players behind them. Now, when I am attempting to do this, I many times see the force placing themselves into unessisary danger, or One or two breaks the front line and go for them. Depending on the reaction time, I will usually act as the meat shield. I'll take the hit for them the brunt of the time and kinda signal em to back away. So sometimes, it ain't always that we are just getting sloppy, it's just choosing priorities. I especially do this fer lower level players as well. Cause as I read in yer post, they die, and MY rank and meseta go down.

Now, as far as forces being underappreciated, I agree. EXTREMELY. One person dies, then all eyes go to the force. It's really annoying at times, especially when it's some dumb hot shot who took on more than he can handle. Honestly, I try to get as many force partner cards as possible. The brunt of them, are forces, and most of my friends are forces too.

I have also noticed how hard support is at the moment as well with only Resta and Reverser. This just doesn't cut it in my opinion. Yes, they are definately ESSENTIAL, BUT, Spells like Shifta, Deband , etc. in the long run, cut down on how much these spells are used and make things much easier.



Um... ...Rangers. I've only seen one noticable ranger sadly. Though, everything went much easier with 'em there. He froze sumthin like every 4 or so hits. I liked that alot. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


But anyway, just some of my thoughts to add to this. I also liked the idea of running under the head. Sadly, I never thought of that when it seems so obvious ta me now. I'll have ta try that out when I gots the time.



Thanks so much for your perspective as a hunter, sheds some light on the hunter's psyche for me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif. Sometimes I really gotta wonder what you guys are thinking. Definitely try running under the head, it seems to work for the hunter's I've partied with. Also I think it's sad too that there aren't that many RA around. I think they're a great class. I hope to see more of them eventually...

[panzer_unit]

After seeing the stats on longbows vs rifles, and that they can use twin daggers & pikes in melee, I'm looking forward to trying my CAST over to Force for a while. I might even learn Resta and Reverser to save some money.

[Sitka]

Interesting how neglected this topic has been lately while the ranger and hunter topics have been so active...

I've been playing almost exclusively force for the past several days, starting up my forteforce to be fonewearl and getting my focast ready for guntecher options....

I love it!

I've tried using rods, but really prefer play with the wands. Wands are quicker, give the ability to force strafe (helpful with the quicker enemies/mobs as you move higher up), allow for an offhand weapon (very helpful to bring down flying beasties where they can be finished off quickly) and are easier for me to access and use quickly on my controller. I'll have to work the rods a bit more, but right now the feel of the wand attacks is more comfortable for my fighting style.

Having maxed out all four bow attacks on my focast, I can say that the bow has become my new favorite weapon and it's a refreshing change from the rifles I've been using on my rangers. It's fast, it has good range, and it's quite fun to play with. I'm interested in seeing how strong a weapon it will be at high levels (s-rank w/lvl 30 PAs).

The ability to do decent damage, have both close up and ranged attacks and the ability to buff/debuff/heal makes the focast one helluva lot of fun to play http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Spellbinder]

Interesting how neglected this topic has been lately while the ranger and hunter topics have been so active...

Don't forget about my three page thread of Force informative goodness sticked at the top. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Sitka]

On 2006-12-05 21:12, Spellbinder wrote:

Interesting how neglected this topic has been lately while the ranger and hunter topics have been so active...

Don't forget about my three page thread of Force informative goodness sticked at the top. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Both topics were stickied and I focused on the first before checking out the second.....you did an awesome job on your description and I apologize for not getting there before posting. Truly, I enjoyed reading your contribution.

Thank you friend.

[Ravennittes]

This is the motto I live by as a Force: "When in doubt, use Diga."

[Umberger]

That's a bad motto. Diga's status effect is only useful on enemies that cast like crazy (that thing in The Hive.../shudders).

As for now, Foie is the better choice in my opinion, it's MUCH faster, and doesn't arc over small enemies, and if you burn them, you do a lot more damage...definitely more than Diga.

Anyway, my advice is if you have an open slot in your palette, get a bow. They're way more useful than I thought they would be, and if you want to spam Linear Line C to level your PM, they work great.