What is Sega doing with your $10?

[Marks]

Let me ask you what you are paying your $10 a month for. Are you paying for development costs? No, your $50 already did that. Are you paying to maintain servers? Somewhat, but Sega doesn't need $10 just to maintain servers. With $10 they could maintain servers and employ GMs and employ developers to actually write new content. Maybe there are GMs, I don't really know, but are there developers writing new cotent? No. The content is already made. Now if they aren't writing new content, is paying your $10 justified?

I know you would pay them $10 no matter what, but it is not right. I am just here to let you know that you are being fooled. Yes you may enjoy the game enough now to pay $10 anyway, but you are supposed to be paying $10 so that developers can have enough of a salary to work on the game and make new content, your not supposed to be paying $10 just to play the game you already bought.

I am not here to whine, I am here to share opinions related to the topic title.

[Miyoko]

http://serc.carleton.edu/images/quantskills/methods/ToiletPaper.gif

[Kerik]

It sounds like...another disgruntled MMO player.

I hear the same thing for Everquest, the same thing for World of Warcraft and such. I'm sorry, but that 10 dollars, or even that 50 that you paid for their games doesn't give you a say in what they will do.

While I do agree, that paying it shouldn't be an option, lets just come to terms that this game was released unfinished and hopefully it will be finished in releases online.

I hold faith, perhaps you should too?

PS: Nice one! *points to post above his*



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kerik on 2006-11-06 19:28 ]</font>

[BrentGamer]

I gave Sega my $10 so that I could play PSU online, and they delivered on their end of the deal.

What they do with their money is no concern of mine.

[SpishackCola]

sounds like whining to me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[Ryogen]

Why are you whining about where our money goes? The money goes towards updates, equiptment, payroll, whatever they need it for, it's there money and I'm sure they put good use too it. I'm pretty sure they are not buying drugs (lol) so other than that, I don't care what they do with it, but I'm pretty sure it's all for PSU.

[perdition]

I agree with the toilet paper thing.

[_Tek_]

they probably use the money to eat or something, you know people.

[ShinMaruku]

You might precive it as whining but it's raising a point though.

[vitius137]

I don't get the toilet paper thing :'(

Perhaps he wants to wipe up the crap? @_@

[zandra117]

They are not just unlocking content from the disc like in the previous PS games, otherwise all the offline hackers would be playing all the online quests in extra mode already, which they aren't. Sonicteam IS developing new content for online mode, the content is streamed from the server rather than saved to the harddrive. There isn't much loading problems because the content loads in segments as you pass through the load zones.

[SonicTMP]

main problem. 90% of online content locked. Thus people whine. Sure if everything was unlocked people would whine/bitch/complain/moan/pick your favorite, about something else. It's a unique idea not many people like. IF they really wanted to do the unlock stuff each month they could of at least had abuot 40% of the game unlocked already.

[Pandatron]

Well seeing how none (or few of us) are stock holders in the Sega franchise and/or franchise we have little say in what they actually do with the money. All we've simply done is trade a month of our soul for 10 bucks end of deal.

edit: i sometimes wonder if i read my post while i type them...remove one franchise xD.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pandatron on 2006-11-06 19:56 ]</font>

[kazuma56]

Well if "Private" RO servers are any indecation of anything, the 10 bucks you paying goes toward the servers Sega is using to host the games, I remeber hearing awhile back that Sega is using some powerful servers (like 10Gbps type servers) and it is fairly new technology so it must cost them a few bucks to keep it running stable.

Then we have the people who are "watching" the servers (at least one can hope so), they require money as well, as well as the fact characters are stored on the servers.

You could use GW as an example, but I remeber hearing that GW servers are not independant, and are using the same server space as NCsofts other pay to play MMORPGs (lineage, CoH, CoV etc) and thus they can have the game not require a fee because their just "borrowing" server space already available to them... in Sega's case, they don't have various "other" mmorpgs to give them money to "bum" space off of thus they require a fee for server upkeep and maintenance.

In short, your 10 dollars is going somewhere.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kazuma56 on 2006-11-06 19:48 ]</font>

[Weak]

They are using it to fund their genetic research towards creating an anthropomorphic blue hedgehog, name it Sonic, and use it to take over the planet.

Pretty scary stuff, actually.

[MaKaVeLi_X]

Ive seen registration numbers at 20,000 so there making 200k this month D=.

[ShinMaruku]

1upyours eleaborates on this whole issue and they say wait two months when they acutally have content. Yup I'm now glad I'm waiting for the PS3 launhc to go online. XD

[Ryogen]

SEGA: I want some CRACK! JK http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Kie]

cry more?

[Drayma]

It's for making a profit, it is a common human charteristic. Greed and sex and some hate, plenty of those factories going full strong, why not sega? Yea its hypocritical though. Last I seen the socialists got creamed.

[Marks]

ShinMaruku I don't know if you will ever check this dead horse forum but you are probably my favorite poster I have seen so far. You never go fanatical, you are absent of cheap personal remarks, and you are very analytical. It is so easy to read your posts even in this disastrous agitation. You sir (or madam), are a worthy mind of this generation.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

We pay $10/month because that's what they are charging for it.

No pay, no play.

I'm probably not in the love boat of worthy minds in this generation, so...

BOING!

[darthsaber9x9]

On 2006-11-06 22:01, Marks wrote:
ShinMaruku I don't know if you will ever check this dead horse forum but you are probably my favorite poster I have seen so far. You never go fanatical, you are absent of cheap personal remarks, and you are very analytical. It is so easy to read your posts even in this disastrous agitation. You sir (or madam), are a worthy mind of this generation.



Yes well maybe because ShinMaruku goes to all these dead horse threads making the same point. If he/she had made a point against you in such a manner, you wouldn't be so happy.

[aquafire]

On 2006-11-06 19:49, Weak wrote:
They are using it to fund their genetic research towards creating an anthropomorphic blue hedgehog, name it Sonic, and use it to take over the planet.

Pretty scary stuff, actually.



LMAO http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-11-06 19:52, MaKaVeLi_X wrote:
Ive seen registration numbers at 20,000 so there making 200k this month D=.



That is net, and does not incorporate the expenses they must pay to allow the operation of the game. We have no idea how much those expenses are, but I will say this: Sega is being quite generous for charging so little, especially for such a new game. World of Warcraft is $15 a month. Shadowbane was something like $18 a month before they removed the charges to promote Shadowbane 2. $10 a month extremely reasonable.

Furthermore, you can't get angry at a business for charging you money for their product. That's how they remain a business. If we didn't pay them for the game, then they wouldn't be able to afford to provide us with it. They're not doing this for the love, people.

[PIT]

the answear is simple - you pay $10 to let sega earn some money. they are people too and they need money to buy food and stuff. imagine it the other way - they earn a few million on releasing a game and they have to give it all to developers. where's the profit? they're not making games for fun, you know...

[ShinMaruku]

On 2006-11-07 05:16, darthsaber9x9 wrote:

On 2006-11-06 22:01, Marks wrote:
ShinMaruku I don't know if you will ever check this dead horse forum but you are probably my favorite poster I have seen so far. You never go fanatical, you are absent of cheap personal remarks, and you are very analytical. It is so easy to read your posts even in this disastrous agitation. You sir (or madam), are a worthy mind of this generation.



Yes well maybe because ShinMaruku goes to all these dead horse threads making the same point. If he/she had made a point against you in such a manner, you wouldn't be so happy.



I'm honored to see sombody can see my point clearly.
As for me in the dead horse part, it's not so much I come here but what I post in come here to evade this explosive but legitamate issue.

Sure some of you might defend them but seriously they are charging for nothing and if you apid them nothing, they coudl probly have the same service. I mena Version 1 was free and it was the first ever setting for the online sphere and they did quite well. The whole issue is not really so much them as it's people paying for nothign and belive they are paying for somthing which really is pre-existing on the disc and whatever.
People must wonder why I come down hard on Sonic Team, simple play that game Nights (I doub much of ye know of that game) That is what they are capable of but now, they ain't going for that. Paying this whole thing allows them to not push themselves too. A shake up is needed. Naka alone ain't enough half the damn team need to be gone.

[Mr_Krull]

Sega uses our money to purchase pr0n and such...I mean I would >_>

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Look, they are offering a service for a fantastically low price. If you don't believe that the service is worth what you are paying, then hey, BOOM! Capitalism. Don't buy the service. If you've got something better to do with your money, then do that. It's okay. There's nothing wrong with making frugal choices.

But also remember this: This is their service to offer, and the price of their service is completely up to them. They base it on maintenance costs, employee costs, and then there's the issue of "If we charge this much, how long will the game take to pay for its development costs?"

How can you honestly expect them to spend, what was it, three years working on a game, and then expect them to provide its service for free? That is THREE YEARS of their lives that they will NEVER have back, and NOW you want them to go unpaid for it? They ask for a trivial $10 a month (that is seriously nothing-- I could pay for 28 days worth of service with only an hour's work, and still have enough left over to get a hot dog and a soda), and you're going to sit and complain that it's too much to pay?

I don't see that it honestly matters that not all of the content has been released yet. The fact is that it is coming, and a little patience can only improve you. Regardless of what has yet been released, they still have ot maintain the servers, and they still have to pay employees, they still have bills to pay.

What you are doing is whining. Granted, they really botched the launch of the game, sure, but we have it now, and they are just trying to earn a living. So pay for it, or don't pay for it, that's up to you, but if they want to hold off on some parts of the game for a while, then they have every right. It's worth more to them over time if they don't just let it be a splash in the water with everything out at once, and it's more interesting to us because it doesn't get so boring so quickly. Just enjoy what you have, in the mean time.

[PIT]

that's what i meant, i'm just too lazy to write long posts

[ShinMaruku]

On 2006-11-09 10:51, Mr_Krull wrote:
Sega uses our money to purchase pr0n and such...I mean I would >_>


Honesty is golden. XD

[Shigecki]

On 2006-11-08 10:37, PIT wrote:
the answear is simple - you pay $10 to let sega earn some money. they are people too and they need money to buy food and stuff. imagine it the other way - they earn a few million on releasing a game and they have to give it all to developers. where's the profit? they're not making games for fun, you know...


So any game that isn't being charged to play online is just breaking even? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

Sega isn't owned by just one guy, and had a few people make this game for him and is now sitting back wondering how he will pay for everything. They have already been paid. Sega has stockholders. Sega is a huge worldwide company after all. These people and bills will be paid if they charged us $10.00 or $0.00 to play this game online. They were able to afford food before the release of PSU. Again. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

I don't have a problem with the amount of money. The problem I have is I paid the money without them telling us that we wouldn't have anything to really do. This is $10.00 I can't get back, it's nonrefundable. Maybe some of you thought they would be getting an unfinished game, but it was never told to us by Sega. The frustation that I have is coming from paying them $10.00 and getting very little in return. We have no idea if we will have anything new in a month, two month or a year. All we have is the thought that we "should have it". This is the same thing that is frustrating about the release. I held my part of the deal by paying them, and was very let down by not getting what I was promised in return. A universe. Instead I got alot of promises and possibilities.

[Alielle]

PSU is not an MMORPG with a persistent world.

The game with the most similar structure I can think of is Guild Wars, and guess what? It's free to play online. Yes, they have expansions every 6 months or whatever, but not only do these have a full game's worth of content, but you can choose not to buy them.

While $10 a month is nothing for most of us, it's still valid to wonder what they're doing with our money.

[CupOfCoffee]

So cancel your subscription until more content is released...?

I don't get why this is proving to be such a hard conclusion for people to reach.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Look, here's the deal. A traditional game makes its profit exclusively by sales of the game itself. A traditional MMO, however, makes its profit primarily by the sale of its service. In the case of Guild Wars, we see that they have to race to continually release new material so that they can provide the service for free without charging for the service. Guild Wars is not a console RPG, as PSU is. This makes it more practical to continually add more stuff. The other problem with this structure, is that it requires the full attention of an entire development house continually until the final installment.

As for not having any warning about content not being released, Shigeki, you have been a member on PSO World since 2002. You should know by now, first of all, that the gradual release of content is a strategy that Sonic Team has been using for years. Furthermore, were you not paying attention when all the importers reported that they couldn't go to Moatoob and so forth? Were you not paying attention when it was reported that Moatoob was opened a few weeks after release? The fact is that those who were not following PSU's progress simply don't know what they are missing and are inclined to not know the difference, while those who were paying attention to it, by the time of its release, should have been aware of the way it would be handled.

You knew enough to know what was there. You are familiar with how Sonic Team operates. We all saw what happened in Japan. You have no excuse for being surprised.

[Sord]

I'm pretty much siding with Meira here, on pretty much all his points. However, a few things seem to have failed to be brought up.

1. we are talking about a corporation who literally has to take care of international networks. Granted, many servers may or may not be hooked up across countries, but they are still there. Trust me, right now, being able to run a large network can make you big bucks, it isn't some easy skill you can just learn. Those that are good at it either grew up with it or have gone to college for it. Also, at least according to Bill Gates, many countries have actually had a drop in people graduating with IT. (http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/biztech/11/08/microsoft.talent.reut/index.html) This creates a higher demand for people who run networks, which means companies have to pay their workers more to keep them in the company instead of taking a better deal from some other one. I honestly doubt the majority of those that complain here fully realize the importance a network can have, or how to actually run one on such a large scale. If a credit card company lost its network, even for about a halfhour, it can litterally cost them millions. Granted, gaming isn't money transactions, but if the network isn't running half the time, people aren't going to pay at all to play the game, and then there will be no online at all. I know this because I'm in training for network, and believe me, if I pass my certifications (which, for CCNA networking, is about 1% for highschool students, 25% for college student) I could easily leave highschool at the age of 19 and have a $30,000 job starting with a good chance of paid tuition to further my knowledge in the IT field. Even for a unionized American, that is a very large chunk of money being payed out, especially at starting price. That is how needed network administrators can be. By furthering a career in Networking it is very plausable to work my way up to 50k-70k a year, at least here in America.


2. I really doubt that just because you pay for a particular MMO game or any other game that they have to spend that money on just that game. Sega is constantly making new games, and lets face it, making games cost a lot of money and a lot of time, even to make decently rated games nowadays. Hell, there is no telling how much will go into next gen games. The sheer volume of data needed for games is not something a specialized group of twenty or so people can do alone anymore. Granted, there are instances, but they are minority, not majority.

3. To those who complain about not knowing where their money goes, ever wonder what they do with your tax money? Sure, you know some might go into government social security, some might go to a highway, hell it might go to building another wall in your country capital's main building. It is rare that anyone ever knows the exact specifics of where their tax money goes. Don't have a job? Well, what about the money your parent's earn? Ever wondered where specifically that goes? How about your sales tax when you spend your birthday money? Sure, you know it goes to the state, but you trust them to use it well. The main diffrence is that you actually depend on government, but not a game. Which, in my opinion, makes whining over some small company's fee and not knowing where it goes rediculous compared to the fact you can be taxed thousands a year and hardly have a clue where it all goes for something your very lifestyle depends on.

In short, I find it extremely unlikely that the majority of you actually grasp how much money can be involved within a corporation given it's massive need of resources. You're wondering where ten dollars go when there is much more money going somewhere else that effects you much more directly than any game. And complain all you want, regardless of Sega's choice to tell you where their money goes, it is still going to be a 10 dollars subscription. So if you want to play, pay up and get over it. If ten friggen dollars is to much, guess what, you're minority among probably several thousand that play and Sega isn't going to give a care if a few people don't subscribe for a few months. Especially that of people who complain about it on forum boards and have questionable age and may not even have a job. You really want any chance of your complaints to count, find a way to send it directly to them. Posting it here on a partially fan based forum isn't going to do as much.

As for them simply not releasing new content fast enough, it's called hook line and sinker. If you are willing to pay and slowly acumulate items, then by all means they will release them slowly. If this is your complaint, then just wait a few months before you bother with the online play. You've waited years for another PSO RPGplatformer, you can sure as hell wait another few months.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sord on 2006-11-10 01:37 ]</font>

[Shigecki]

HUnewearl_Meira, I may have been a member since 2002, but my first play at PSO was ver2. When I started, everything was available. Then I went to XBox, all stages were open. All we had to wait for were the quests. I then moved over to BB, again every area was open in all levels when I joined up. So that is my history with Sonic Team. So going with my history, I guess I expected more.

I don't care about paying $10.00 for the game, I don't even care about how they spend their money. I may be in the wrong area, sorry.

[darthsaber9x9]

On 2006-11-08 19:43, ShinMaruku wrote:
People must wonder why I come down hard on Sonic Team, simple play that game Nights (I doub much of ye know of that game) That is what they are capable of but now, they ain't going for that.



QFT on this one. I think we'll be lucky to see a game with as much character as NiGHTS in the next generation. It's one of the reasons my Saturn is still my favourite console. It's also the reason I (used to) hold Sonic Team in such high regard, knowing the could produce games like that.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darthsaber9x9 on 2006-11-10 03:17 ]</font>

[Mr_Krull]

I dont give a damn about paying I just wanna play... yeah and I make my own money! well I dont have the game yet but I will pay for teh online stuff.

[ShinMaruku]

Their filling their coffers not suppoorting this, I can tell you that.

[Alielle]

I still say it's a valid question.

I'm not even complaining; $10/mo for a game I enjoy playing with friends, albeit with limited content, is nothing to me. I don't understand the trumpeted rush to Sega's defense, not to mention that the "don't like it, don't pay, you moron who knows nothing about game companies" attitude is uncalled for. I'm not gonna cry any rivers over stuff that's pure conjecture, anyway, and especially not over a company that appears to care only enough to throw us table scraps.

My beef is that Sega is notorious not only for being slow to release content, but for being very mum towards non-JP players about what to expect, and that's just plain crappy service. If any of you feel like you deserve better (as I do), I suggest to anyone concerned with this that they sound off directly to Sega. I've seen on the official boards that they've actually been reading what people have to say lately, and that's a big step in the right direction. The prickish suggestion that they either "deal with it or don't buy the service" is a fallacy at best; a lot of people care very much about this game and would love to see it done justice.

[Sord]

the not knowing the company bit is mainly directed towards the few that seemed to feel that the money was merely being pocketed almost like it's some trumped up charge to line the big wigs or company pockets. And yes, while it is conjecture as to wether anyone here is able to fully comprehend how funds move through a company, it doesn't mean it isn't a false conjecture. Granted, I made a point to use words such "doubt," or "unlikely," because technically, yes, it is possable someone might know. Someone here might have taken college classes in marketing or something, but I think it is highly unlikely that the majority has ever sat down and tried to figure out how money flows in every which way in a large corporate business or taken advance studies in the area.

Really, as for defending Sega, I don't really care all that much about them. I'll admit that at times (actually quite a bit) games and service are crappy.

What gets me about this thread is the complaint over the paying ten dollars for lack of content, which is what the original point of the thread was. There is so much more money that is going to much more important factors in your life that worrying what a game company does with $10 measely dollars seems silly to me. That's maybe three, four hours tops on the lowest of minimum wages unless you live in a country with a poor and run down economy. A month's time of being able to play for a few hours of work seems fair to me.

Had the thread maybe encompassed a broader view of Sega and its other games, that would be a diffrent story. Buying several games can cost hundreds of dollars over time, since they go anywhere from 20-50 dollars apiece, and it is rare someone just buys one game. A hundred dollars can buy a decent size family's gorceries for a weak, but ten dollars is going to cover a day unless you stock on ramen or something. The topic is adressing a specific low cost issue of little signifigance in your life. Maybe me finding it silly to worry over it comes from being raised in a family that barely (and man do i mean barely) meets ends, and taxes and bills with triple digit numbers on them are a lot more important than that of the first possable two digit number (not including decimals of course.)

Either way, at least you've pointed out that the official boards are being watched, but this isn't the official board. So if someone is going to complain about it, it seems logical to make the complaint where you really know they are going to look, or at least have the best chance of noticing it. That place isn't PSOW that place is either here (http://boards2.sega.com/psu_board/index.php), and to even better the chances of it being seen, here (http://www.phantasystaruniverse.com/support_contact.php) as well. I'm not saying any of you have made this claim or will atempt to make it, but you can't say you're just spreading the word either, because then you should be the one giving the official links so people can send complaints faster and to where it has a chance of counting, not the one who thinks your complaints are silly and pointless.