why are forces expected to heal

[Alisha]

seriously why?i've been reading various threads here. hunters dont spend as much money per exp trip as rangers or forces so why not drop some money into mates. as a hunter i would never expect a force to heal me unless i ran out of mates,and even then i would run torwards the force instead of expecting them to come to me.

[EphekZ]

Becuase, that's been a FO's role for all of PSO. They Support the others. I dont know why people get mad at that, it's not even hard to support. they're the only ones with resta, so if it's there why not use it? It's very selfish if you ask me.

[KiteWolfwood]

Why are hunters expected to use Photon arts? Why are rangers expected to use Bullet arts? Lets all just have a pow wow and hope the big baddies go away.

[Skuda]

Hunters should bring their own mates. if they don't, they're just plain stupid.

listen.. each class was made to support each other in combat. There is a reason only forces have resta.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skuda on 2006-11-17 17:50 ]</font>

[ProfessorZ]

Thats your job so do it bitch. No more whining

[EphekZ]

On 2006-11-17 17:49, Skuda wrote:
Hunters should bring their own mates. if they don't, they're just plain stupid.

listen.. each class was made to support each other in combat. There is a reason only forces have resta.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Skuda on 2006-11-17 17:50 ]</font>


Yeah they should bring their own mates, but they shouldnt really need to use em. With that being said if they know a fo cant get to them, they better use a mate.

[BladeWindD]

Hmmm, well Hunters are in the frontline in battle, Rangers do nothing
but long range combat and Force can either attack or support.
My guess that people who Hunters need to learn to fight on there
own instead of depending on Forces so much. Either that or
they just to lazy to heal themself I guess.

[Yachiru]

Well, it's highly understandable that a Force is expected to heal. What I really don't understand is.. when a person is all the way on the other side of the room, they expect us Forces to run all the way over to them and heal if their health is low, then we get yelled at if 1. Their health gets extremely low or 2. If they die.

[Skuda]

it's all about common sense... just use your head and there shouldn't be any complaining.

[Lashiens]

On 2006-11-17 17:50, ProfessorZ wrote:
Thats your job so do it bitch. No more whining



I lol'd.

[SpishackCola]

When I did my FOcasealing I would only manuver to heal someone if either A) They were close enough to me I didn't need to move far or B) If I do need to move I don't have to run across an entire area/through 10 mobs that would all turn on me at once.

[ProfessorZ]

On 2006-11-17 17:52, BladeWindD wrote:
Hmmm, well Hunters are in the frontline in battle, Rangers do nothing
but long range combat and Force can either attack or support.
My guess that people who Hunters need to learn to fight on there
own instead of depending on Forces so much. Either that or
they just to lazy to heal themself I guess.



Rangers do more than longe range support. Even though it might seem rangers don't do that much damage they do the most to ensure the party survives

[McLaughlin]

Because they have the ****ing spell!?

What kind of idiotic question is this? Resta...Nah, I'll just use a Monomate.

Bloody hell. If you can, you should.

[Ronzeru]

Forces arent SUPPOSED to have Hunters Depend on themselves. If you don't worry about keeping the front line fighters alive, you're just being lazy. When I was leveling force to get that job up, I always made sure to keep the front line fighters alive, with that always taking a first priority over dealing damage. If Forces weren't meant to heal others, Resta would be a single target spell, rather than an Area of Effect that WIDENED in range the more you leveled it.

You don't want Hunters to rely on you? Hunters SHOULD rely on you, while you should RELY on hunters to be the tanks, aka grabbing the attention of the majority of the monsters, so that you can safely cast high tier spells on them without worrying about being the focus of the monsters aggression too much. That's the way its played.

[BladeWindD]

Oh. I never done Ranger before so I didn't know. I always stayed
as a Hunter (since I love swords so much ^_^) I done Force just
a little bit but thats it for now.

[Ronzeru]

One more thing. Healing items are for emergancy situations. Meaning, they are used if the force is too far away to get a heal in. Or if you have one of the lazy ass forces with their heads too far stuck up their ass to use the spell they bought to heal anyone other than themselves.

[Squall179]

Ive been known to annoy Forces whenever they heal me by thankign them every tiome. They DONT HAVE to heal you, they do it because they want to, not because they are forced to by some writen law

I ALWAYS bring my own supplies with me, because I like to be prepared for any eventuality

[Ronzeru]

Actually yes, yes they do have to heal. That's what the spell is for.. That's like coming in as a Hunter and saying you don't have to help kill the monsters. And to add to that, how else do you expect to level Resta anyway if you arent' using it?

[BladeWindD]

Ah thats true.

[Kano-Okami]

Force Stereotype.
When I get online, my response will be
"Never learned Resta",
and keep casting along.

[ProfessorZ]

Try being a ranger in a party with no forces. Thats a true challenge

[PJ]

Mates WOULD be for emergency only IF YOU COULDN'T HOLD FUCKING 20

Alisha's right. Forces should heal you assuming THE HUNTERS ARE THERE BESIDE YOU. The Force should not have to go out of it's way to do the hunter a favour.

PSO was different

[BladeWindD]

lol

[ProfessorZ]

On 2006-11-17 18:21, PJ wrote:
Mates WOULD be for emergency only IF YOU COULDN'T HOLD FUCKING 20

Alisha's right. Forces should heal you assuming THE HUNTERS ARE THERE BESIDE YOU. The Force should not have to go out of it's way to do the hunter a favour.

PSO was different



STFU and do your job lazy force. Mates are for when you are getting thrashed and the force is no where in sight.

[Ronzeru]

Mates are for emergancies. A force should be fighting along side the Hunters anyway, just further back from them. Why in the heck would you be so far away from the Hunters anyway? You shouldn't be splitting up in the first place, and they should always be within sight.

[Vorpal]

Because most classes can no longer cast their own resta like in PSO, forces are more required to cast Resta. But, we can nuke anything in sight easily. Forget your quick 40s, hello 300s.

[BladeWindD]

I might try Ranger someday but not now.

[KiteWolfwood]

On 2006-11-17 18:19, Kano-Okami wrote:
Force Stereotype.
When I get online, my response will be
"Never learned Resta",
and keep casting along.


Yes and my response will be "Leader rights > Kick". Why because if a force won't heal then might as well open up the spot for a hunter for the damage or another force that will heal or even another ranger to make sure nothing can attack or move.

Also its not like as a force you spam resta. Seriously if you are having to cast resta more then once a minute and you are not in exploding robots of doom area then those hunters suck.

Lrn2locknstrafe. Also so I don't seem biased. If you want your freaking heal don't make the force walk to you. Get out of the danger zone. Find the force. Walk /run to the force. If the force doesn't heal you, maybe ask for a heal. Say something like "Could I get a heal please?". If he tells you to go to hell and doesn't heal then. Blist.

[hypersaxon]

I think it's only fair that if us Hunters have to be meatshields for you Force users, that you heal us. Not very hard to do. Buy a staff, put some attack spells on it, and put Resta on it. Now you can nuke AND heal! Wow, that was so hard.

[Garnet_Moon]

Forces heal because you're the best bang for the buck.

Go do Holy Shrine C/B/A and tell me you don't want a Force with Reverser and Resta. I dare you. lol

I am not loving the light debuff off of Grants. Holy Shrine B gives the same XP and reward as Grove of Fanatics A; and it's accessible at level 25, but that damn Grants is so annoying solo. >.>

You guys heal and remove our status effects and we are forever greatful. Even I will concede defeat against forces for this. We need you to heal when we need it and remove our debuffs when they land. If you're healing more than once or twice for each room, the party sucks and you need to leave. Heal the bruises when the wave dies and as people move to the next room. In rooms with a bunch of spawns then heal a second time. Add a few more heal times the higher you go in difficulty, but really, it's not a whole lot. You're complaining over something minut that is beneficial for you: Leveling your light-based spells.

It's just 5 seconds after every room. Even less if you're quick to switch weapons. Stop crying.

You want my advice? CALL IT LIKE IT IS! If you heal more often than what you should, check their weapons and armor. If it sucks, TELL THEM!

Force: Hey! Beast!
Beast: Rawr?
Force: Your equipment is shit.
Beast: RAWR!!!
Force: Don't give me lip, furball. Take the time to farm meseta on lower missions and get better gear. Everybody else does. You're not special.
Beast: Rawr...
Force: Stop being a gimp!
Beast: rawr... ; ;
Force: Aww, but I still wub ya. Your weapon is fucking maxed to +10 and 50% element, so i'll let it slide this time.
Beast: Rawr~. =^.^=


If they suck, tell them. It's the only way they will learn.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-17 18:38 ]</font>

[jnblz316]

If you don't want to support then don't be a force nuff said.

[BladeWindD]

agree

[Sexy_Raine]

It is our job support the party. There are times where hunters may be paralized and are on the brink of dying. As boss-girl/party-leader I will go out of my way to save those that are in trouble, even run through a mob of 10 enemies. And many hunters I've played with appreicate that greatly.

[PJ]

On 2006-11-17 18:23, ProfessorZ wrote:

STFU and do your job lazy force. Mates are for when you are getting thrashed and the force is no where in sight.



Don't be retarded. I'll do my force job, but really, I should NOT have to stop what I'm doing, to make my way over to you, because if you are in THAT much danger of dying, then you WILL hear yourself, unless you're as retarded on PSU as you are on the forums, then you will die. Simple.

It's not that I don't heal. That'd make a terrible force.

[Nukei]

The role of forces is to do lots of damage in one strike.

[BladeWindD]

Wow your cool Raine. ^_^

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-17 18:39, Sexy_Raine wrote:
It is our job support the party. There are times where hunters may be paralized and are on the brink of dying. As boss-girl/party-leader I will go out of my way to save those that are in trouble, even run through a mob of 10 enemies. And many hunters I've played with appreicate that greatly.


Everybody is hit with Grants' debuff and standing around like retarded animal babies.

Goldenia(or w/e it is) just dropped from the SSJ Svaltus.

The Goldenia is beyond your incapacitated party, and a fresh wave of mobs that would most certainly kill them if they aren't REverser'd.

The dilemma is when reverser'd they will get to the drop before you. As the Force, you have the power of a God. You can bring them to salvation with Reverser, or damn them to hell and grab the item that you are the sole reason it dropped; hell, the reason the party could get so far for that matter.

It is the final one you need for your crea sword.

What do you do?

(A) Enjoy your free heal from yer scape dolls suckas! *grab the item*
(B) Don't worry, Super Force to the rescue! *use Reverser and lose item*
(C) *glance at the item, your party, and mobs. Then again, and again.* Hmm...

o.O

[lokijam]

while i agree forces shud be expected to heal, what bothers me is hunters that tend to get lazy the minute they see a force join in. Like in the temple for example, i see hunters not dodging the robots when theyre about to explode. that soooo annoys me. I know were saving u from costly mates, but us forces spend a sh*tload on pp recharge. Cmon, most of these enemies move real slow and are ez to dodge, so stop bein lazy the minute a force enters the room.

[Yoiyami]

Only because forces have resta and it's in high demand. The fact that some people are trying to FORCE a force to support when their job description and character stats and setup gives them a choice just says something about the community we're dealing with.

It's...actually quite that simple.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Yoiyami on 2006-11-17 18:53 ]</font>

[Nukei]

I'm greedy when I enter rooms with "Give to Finder" [Almost No Healing]
And I heal when I enter rooms such as "Set in Order", But most hunters that I party with use monomates against the enemies, and I heal them occasionally if I'm tired (When I'm tired I don't look at their health bars that much http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif) Monomates don't cost THAT much..In person-made shops they're usually 20 meseta for 1 monomate.
I like healing people but not if they expect me to >.>;


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nukei on 2006-11-17 19:06 ]</font>

[Garnet_Moon]

Monomates don't cost too much, but have you tried to go back to town to recharge your weapon or buy healing items? Yeah. Try it with a PuG sometime. See how quickly they bite your head off and boot you; if you're not the party leader.

[usmcbama]

I can't help but wonder:

Of the Forces who seem not to like the "support" aspect of this multi-faceted class, have you previously spent a lot of time as a Black Mage on FFXI, or a Wizard or Necro on EQ, or some such role in a game? Perhaps the Forces who DO enjoy healing have had experience as a White Mage, Cleric, or Druid? It almost seems as though people are wanting to try to force "traditional" MMO-type roles upon this class which has a multitude (when more TECHs get released) of functions. As a matter of fact, comparing Force as it is in PSU to other games, the best match seems to be Red Mage from FFXI.

As far as the whole heal v. take care of your self debate, the reasonable approach seems to be this:

Forces SHOULD heal in between skirmishes, and when it's safe/expedient for them to do so during battle. When a Force is distant, otherwise engaged, or when healing would be dangerous, those low on health had better use mates.

That seems a sensible, middle of the road approach and seems to be the general conensus. To the Hunters who think they should never have to pop a mate, or the Force who refuses to heal, "Happy soloing!"

[Lashiens]

On 2006-11-17 18:23, ProfessorZ wrote:

STFU and do your job lazy force. Mates are for when you are getting thrashed and the force is no where in sight.



I lol'd twice in one thread.

[Garnet_Moon]

...I blame Yuna for everybodys hatred for Support Mages. She turned a perfectly good Damage Dealer into a heal bot. This in turn ruined that job in FFXI, and it seems to be working its magic here for Forces.

o.O

Or maybe people are just selfish and want to be gimps by not using all of their spells they have. Which where put there for a reason, mind you. If you weren't expected to heal, you would not have gotten Resta. Simple as that.

[BloodDragoon]

On 2006-11-17 18:19, Kano-Okami wrote:
Force Stereotype.
When I get online, my response will be
"Never learned Resta",
and keep casting along.



I lvled White Mage to 37 in FFXI and never cast a cure spell... >.> Yay for 0 Healing Magic... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Granted you say that you never learned Resta in a game online in PSU, unless you're the party leader you're gonna get booted.

Look on the bright side Forces. Large numbers of these Hunters and Rangers plan on taking techer hybrids when expert classes are unlocked which will cut the healing duty burden considerably. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[-Ryuki-]

A thread like this reminds me amazingly of FFXI. "WHM! Heal!"

Yeah, it's rather rude, and that's the only reason why other job classes don't get invited. That's also why there's tension in parties, because there is never respect for what you do. I was playing a RDM, and they had me as a back-up healer, when really, they NEEDED me to nuke. It pisses me off. Forces.. If they heal, fine, but don't rely on them unless they're the nice ones.

[Maskim]

Oh lord, this discussion reared it's ugly head again? No, you can't rely on a force to heal, but yes, it is their job. Don't want people to expect you to do your job? Get a new job. I don't even care if you focus primarily on offense, and your nuking spells, support and healing is still part of your job, as evidenced by no other class gets resta, so do it!

Want a magic weilding character that can do ONLY offensive spells, and NEVER have to worry about support? Find a new game.

[-Ryuki-]

Yeah, go play Oblivion, where you can play by yourself and cast magic. (Not that the game is bad, just using it as an example).

[Nukei]

1.Don't expect forces to heal, if you REALLY need a heal, then put a shortcut saying "May I have a heal please?" and use that shortcut when you're in danger.
2.The job of a force is...to both heal and/or nuke enemies, but it depends on the player actually if they want to heal or nuke or neither.
3.The job of a hunter is...To kill enemies quickly, these are just job variations for people to have fun.
4.Hunters should use tactics such as they mention in the guides; Go behind enemies and strike them.[If they want to be less likely to be hurt]
5. I'm sleepy and...I'm not sure.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nukei on 2006-11-17 19:36 ]</font>

[AeraLure]

As primarily a Force in PSU, and a primary healer in other previous games, I am more than happy to heal and support. Forces do need a moment at the beginning of the battle to tag enemies, and sometimes as the battle unfolds with a second mob, but in a good party this priority does not outweigh the support of the party.

The problem is when in some party experiences the other classes dont do their part in this equation: move nearish to the Force after each major battle to buffs can be put on, any debuffs removed, heals can be done - wait to move together into the next area. If they go running off straight for the next mob or the item boxes, or in all different directions, then the motivation and even ability (due to low resta range) to do this begins to diminish. It causes Forces to be too concerned simply with trying to get hits in and, if you dont see your hunters doing anything to make your life easier while you are simply trying to help them, it does modify your perspective some. For good teams I'll run through anything to use Reverser or pull off a timely Resta. I enjoy doing so, frankly.

[-Ryuki-]

I feel like ranting, so I'll do so.

It ticks me off when a FO is doing well in a party, but then decides to be greedy and take the kills, that they forget about the party, and then someone dies. Please tell me you've never had that happen to you. Many of my parties have lost S-Rank due to FO's trying to get the last hit on bosses ever so much.

[Ronzeru]

Are you kiddin' me? You shouldn't have to "not expect a force to heal" when they bought the damn spell to begin with for the sole purpose of healing. Stop being lazy. Heal. If you don't want to, then don't be a force.

[AeraLure]

I personally have little interest at all in experience on my Force and havent really since I hit level 35 or so, knowing that the level cap was 50. Cant do all that much with it now and I know I will hit the cap long long before its raised. I usually go into team parties looking for gaming with others and general fun. Soloing/Duoing is where I get my meseta, drops and/or experience when I want it, at least up until now, so I cant say I've had or seen your experience RyukiZero, but then again ones that answer in the positive to your question probably arent Forces themselves.

[Ryogen]

Uhh if your a Force then you have the ability to heal, so if you want some real teamwork, get to using it and stop complaing. This game is about teamwork. If you don't want to help the team, play by yourself. This is Phantasy Star. It's always been about either teamwork or SOLO.

[-Ryuki-]

That is possible. And please, call me Ryuki. I'm the UnOfficial PSOW PhotoGrapher <3

[Ether]

This topic is lol because its made by someone who plays offline

[-Ryuki-]

On 2006-11-17 19:52, Ether wrote:
This topic is lol because its made by someone who plays offline


That might actually be true..

And if it was..

LMAO!! GTFO!

Sorry.. I somehow seem a little rude than I normally do today/night.. >.<;

[Merumeru]

XD you see, this is why most MMORPGs have WHITE MAGES and BLACK MAGES...

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-17 19:57, Merumeru wrote:
XD you see, this is why most MMORPGs have WHITE MAGES and BLACK MAGES...


You mean Mage and Priest/Cleric, right? The only MMORPG I know of with BLMs and WHMs is ffxi.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-17 19:59 ]</font>

[-Ryuki-]

Mage and Priest is too "WoW-ish". No thanks.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-17 19:59, RyukiZero wrote:
Mage and Priest is too "WoW-ish". No thanks.


Tons of other games use 'Mage' and 'Priest'. Not just WoW. I think it stems from D&D, but i'm not a nerd so i've never played it to know for certain.

/wrist



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-17 20:00 ]</font>

[Maskim]

On 2006-11-17 20:00, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-17 19:59, RyukiZero wrote:
Mage and Priest is too "WoW-ish". No thanks.


Tons of other games use 'Mage' and 'Priest'. Not just WoW. I think it stems from D&D, but i'm not a nerd so i've never played it to know for certain.

/wrist



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-17 20:00 ]</font>


That's a pretty good guess. Most everything in fantasy gaming stems from D&D at some point.

[Merumeru]

On 2006-11-17 19:58, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-17 19:57, Merumeru wrote:
XD you see, this is why most MMORPGs have WHITE MAGES and BLACK MAGES...


You mean Mage and Priest/Cleric, right? The only MMORPG I know of with BLMs and WHMs is ffxi.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-17 19:59 ]</font>

XD im sorry, im too lazy to put fucking REPLACE WITH ANY DEFENSIVE SPELL CLASS IN ANY MMORPG YOU'VE EVER PLAYED and ANY OFFENSIVE SPELL CLASS IN ANY MMORPG YOU'VE EVER PLAYED

[-Ryuki-]

Hey, that works for me, honestly XD

[Squall179]

On 2006-11-17 20:01, Maskim wrote:

On 2006-11-17 20:00, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-17 19:59, RyukiZero wrote:
Mage and Priest is too "WoW-ish". No thanks.


Tons of other games use 'Mage' and 'Priest'. Not just WoW. I think it stems from D&D, but i'm not a nerd so i've never played it to know for certain.

/wrist



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-17 20:00 ]</font>


That's a pretty good guess. Most everything in fantasy gaming stems from D&D at some point.



Thats correct.

which, IIRC, D&D derives form LOTR and other fantasy stories from before D&Ds time, like mythology

[Kalier]

what is sad, is i play a force, and i use more mates when injured than the hunters do.

mate doesn't take about 2 seconds to use, and leave you wide open for a hit.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kalier on 2006-11-17 20:48 ]</font>

[_Deliverance_]

On 2006-11-17 17:50, ProfessorZ wrote:
Thats your job so do it bitch. No more whining



I lol'd.

But seriously, Heal when you can, but if a hunter is going 'Leeroy Jenkins' on Onmagoug or whoever else, and he starts getting owned...They gotta take care of themselves.

I help where I can, but I'm no fucking babysitter...lol


but i'm not a nerd

uh-huh....http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Deliverance_ on 2006-11-17 21:08 ]</font>

[GeoHolyhart]

I'm a level 10 Hunter, now leveling Force class. As a hunter I expected Rangers to shoot things, especially those flying bosses. I was expected to deal front line damage. While Forces were expected to heal when possible. If life gets on yellow, its up to the hunter or ranger to heal themselves. Regardless you should have scapes on you, because everyone makes mistakes.

Now as a force I heal my party and deal damage AFTER I've insured everyone has full HP and cycle again. If you can't handle this responsibility you shouldn't be a Force.

[Flamingo99]

I normally find myself running to people with low HP and heal them. I mean... its not that big of a hassle. Just tag everything with barta or zonde first, so if someone is dying, you can heal them and get exp if an enemy dies while you are doing so. Once those 2 seconds of healing are done, continue killing crap with your Technics. You don't have to heal, I personally think its courtesy, and part of a forces role in the game. If forces weren't ment to heal, then why did SEGA give them Resta?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Flamingo99 on 2006-11-17 21:09 ]</font>

[GeoHolyhart]

On 2006-11-17 21:04, _Deliverance_ wrote:

On 2006-11-17 17:50, ProfessorZ wrote:
Thats your job so do it bitch. No more whining



I lol'd.

But seriously, Heal when you can, but if a hunter is going 'Leeroy Jenkins' on Onmagoug or whoever else, and he starts getting owned...They gotta take care of themselves.

I help where I can, but I'm no fucking babysitter...lol


LEEEROOOY JEEENKINS! Couldn't resist.

[-Ryuki-]

On 2006-11-17 21:12, GeoHolyhart wrote:

On 2006-11-17 21:04, _Deliverance_ wrote:

On 2006-11-17 17:50, ProfessorZ wrote:
Thats your job so do it bitch. No more whining



I lol'd.

But seriously, Heal when you can, but if a hunter is going 'Leeroy Jenkins' on Onmagoug or whoever else, and he starts getting owned...They gotta take care of themselves.

I help where I can, but I'm no fucking babysitter...lol


LEEEROOOY JEEENKINS! Couldn't resist.


Even if that whole video was scripted, and probably rehearsed, it was still funny.

[Wallin]

On 2006-11-17 17:44, Alisha wrote:
why are forces expected to heal

Because Hunters and Forces have a two-way relationship. In exchange for allowing Forces to cast all they want from a distance, Hunters take on the aggro up close and personal.

Ever try soloing as a Force before? Oh the joys of running around in circles trying to escape the reach of monsters while damaging them at the same time.

If you're just blasting away while the hunters are taking damage and think you don't need to heal at all, you're just lazy. You don't have a care in the world besides blasting away and leveling your skills without ever taking any damage, but you give nothing in return besides additional damage, not even crowd control - better to have another Hunter then who can at least use Rising Strike or take over to distract monsters when someone needs to back off to use a healing item.

And the only reason Forces spend more is because they have that ability to spam spells in safety and also because without Resta, Hunters would have to devote huge amounts of money to dimates and trimates. When you get into the upper levels and monsters are hitting for 50-200 on just B-rank missions, it adds up quickly and monomates are just a waste of inventory space.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-17 21:16, RyukiZero wrote:

On 2006-11-17 21:12, GeoHolyhart wrote:

On 2006-11-17 21:04, _Deliverance_ wrote:

On 2006-11-17 17:50, ProfessorZ wrote:
Thats your job so do it bitch. No more whining



I lol'd.

But seriously, Heal when you can, but if a hunter is going 'Leeroy Jenkins' on Onmagoug or whoever else, and he starts getting owned...They gotta take care of themselves.

I help where I can, but I'm no fucking babysitter...lol


LEEEROOOY JEEENKINS! Couldn't resist.


Even if that whole video was scripted, and probably rehearsed, it was still funny.



it was scrpited becasue why the fuck would you go after Father Fucking Flame for Devot shoulders for a paladin? Also the guys plan to beat father falme was total crap,

[happy_cricket]

What I hate is having to chase a noob ass hunter in order to heal him. I can't tell you the number of times that I have had to specifically tell someone, "HEY!!! I 'm trying to heal you but I can't freaking catch up to you!!!!"

Then they finally go, "Oh, ME TEH NOOBS" and slow down enough to alow their royal highness' to be healed. It gets old. People talk a lot about good forces versus bad forces, but where's the discussion about what makes a good hunter?

[Finalzone]

A true example of lack of versatility. *sigh*

[Vorpal]

Hey, it's not against the rules to not use resta on others xD. So what if they want to be a mainly offensive force. I rarely heal people in boss battles, because usually doing so will easily risk the team's S rank, cause of easy OHKOs {Doesn't mean I don't though.}



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vorpal on 2006-11-17 21:44 ]</font>

[Chisa]

just my own two cents on the matter. my main is a Force, I heal whenever I get the chance so I can level up my resta, and to keep people alive. but it really does get on my nerves a bit when they run -away- from me when I am trying to heal them. If they are going to expect me to heal, at least try to stay where you are, seriously. I also have a lower level hunter that I'm working on and I always have mates on me, never really have to buy them because I find enough on my missions to cover me. Hunters really do need to learn that forces aren't going to be at their backs 24/7 they have their own attack skills they need to level too, and it is indeed selfish and lazy to expect a force to be at their back every second. you know what? all i gotta do is press button 4, left and let go.. boom, I'm healed. it's not that hard guys.

[Ruby-chan]

The real essence of the problem is that a fair number of people don't want to have the job of supporting the party, they all want to be the big gigantic massive damage dealer. Some people got addicted to casting Diga on enemies and no are trying to explain away having any business trying to heal the party. All I have to say is...

Be glad you have "divine" and "arcane" spells in the same class. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif Cast the damn resta. No hunter is going to go into battle without Mates, but no hunter is going to be physically able to carry enough mates to keep the party going at a good clip. You can only carry 20 of each type, without some resta you can easily burn through 20 of at least one type, and when that's out they're going to want to either go farm new mates or goto player shops to look for mates.

I suppose if you like having parties where you never get S rank because your hunters ran out of mates and you have to disband after every mission you could never cast resta. Personally though I think it's just easier to cast the bloody thing.

[jello44]

omg lish stuf n00b and do ur job kthxbye...

But seriously, no class is required to do anything. It's how you want to play the character.

This whole thing has been done to death in every MMO that has ever been developed, but there will always be those people who see 'FO' and think they can just bum rush everything and expect the 'heeler' to be there to save them when their ass is getting pounded.

[DonRoyale]

On 2006-11-17 17:46, darkgunner wrote:
they're the only ones with resta

No they aren't. >>

Seriously, if you ask me, more people can get independent. Slap on a wand or two with some techs and call it healing. Seriously, ain't that hard.

With no S/D, a Force's only current role is to nuke. When we get S/D, MAYBE we'll support. Until then, buy mates and SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Geez!

[EJ]

The only reason that the hunter is on the other side of the area is probably because they decided to be rambo and try to take on a mob by themselves. And there no way I'm going to chase someone down for their stupidty.

[BloodDragoon]

On 2006-11-17 22:38, SereneShadows wrote:

On 2006-11-17 17:46, darkgunner wrote:
they're the only ones with resta

No they aren't. >>

Seriously, if you ask me, more people can get independent. Slap on a wand or two with some techs and call it healing. Seriously, ain't that hard.

With no S/D, a Force's only current role is to nuke. When we get S/D, MAYBE we'll support. Until then, buy mates and SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Geez!



FYI Hunters and Rangers cannot equip wands or staves in network mode. Classes offline have different restrictions online.

[DonRoyale]

That's why we carry 20 mates, then.

"Look at me, I'm fighting this big important enemy that'll kill everyone if I don't kill it!"

"Oh, but wait, I'm gonna die! I have 20 mates, but you should heal me, even though you're busy!"

"But I'm on the other side of the arena!"

"STFU AND GET OVA HEAR NAO!"

See, that's common, stupid, and pointless.

Yet nobody gets the fucking picture here. Forces have another role, too ya know, it's called NUKING. Just because I'm on the other side of the arena, taking care of whatever I'm doing, doesn't mean I should come to you.

Oh, and when you die, I'll say "Well that's what you get for spamming your PA in a fruitless attempt to look cool in front of your stupid friends."

God, shut up, you all make me sick to my fucking stomach.

And isn't it funny? How every single reply that defends Forces are from people who've actually PLAYED THIS GAME AND KNOW HOW TO PLAY IT WELL (myself, Skuda, and PJ to name a few)?

And isn't it funnier althemore when those who insult Forces for 'being lazy' are the n00bmars of PSU? Isn't it funny? I certainly find it funny.

No, not funny. SAD.

SHUT UP.

[PMB960]

I think the problem is Forces are getting kicked because 5 people go left for S-rank then one guy goes right gets killed then boots the force. Or every one is on the left of De Ragan and the one guy on the right gets killed and boots the force. Not too many people have been that bad but alot of people tell me to heal and then keep running as if they think forces can run faster than any other class. Even when telling people to gather one idiot usually runs off without everyone and has about 10 hp left. And no its not anyones job to heal otherwise you would get exp for it. If you talk about jobs then I can boot hunters for using guns or ranger for using swords because its not their job. My job is to be a cashier in a store. Unless you want to pay me to be your personal healbot you better make a pure tech PM.

[BloodDragoon]

Only thing I find funny here is someone that according to their sig never played this game in network mode let alone A rank missions in Neudaiz assuming they know everything about what happens in multiplayer on missions.

There is such a thing as a lazy force, there is also such a thing as a lazy hunter.

Currently in network mode only Forces have access to Technic's period.

Mates heal half as much HP online as they do offline.

No one here said a force couldn't nuke, however they do imply having enough common sense to know when to nuke and when to heal.

Primary reason these topics keep popping up IMO are due to people who only ever see 1 side of the discussion.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-17 22:54, SereneShadows wrote:
That's why we carry 20 mates, then.

"Look at me, I'm fighting this big important enemy that'll kill everyone if I don't kill it!"

"Oh, but wait, I'm gonna die! I have 20 mates, but you should heal me, even though you're busy!"

"But I'm on the other side of the arena!"

"STFU AND GET OVA HEAR NAO!"

See, that's common, stupid, and pointless.

Yet nobody gets the fucking picture here. Forces have another role, too ya know, it's called NUKING. Just because I'm on the other side of the arena, taking care of whatever I'm doing, doesn't mean I should come to you.

Oh, and when you die, I'll say "Well that's what you get for spamming your PA in a fruitless attempt to look cool in front of your stupid friends."

God, shut up, you all make me sick to my fucking stomach.

And isn't it funny? How every single reply that defends Forces are from people who've actually PLAYED THIS GAME AND KNOW HOW TO PLAY IT WELL (myself, Skuda, and PJ to name a few)?

And isn't it funnier althemore when those who insult Forces for 'being lazy' are the n00bmars of PSU? Isn't it funny? I certainly find it funny.

No, not funny. SAD.

SHUT UP.



O ok I'm sorry I diddn't know 3k of mates is wroth less then you ripping out a wand and healing maybe spending 28 mesta on healing me? Instead of me saving them for when I need them? You fail pick another class, go die

[Ruby-chan]

Speaking of other sides of the equation, I have a force too. I use a staff and put Radiga, Diga, Foi, and Resta on it. Haven't had many problems yet. In fact I'm always happy to heal to help level up the resta tech.

[Vorpal]

Lol, everyone is treating forces as slaves. Let us play however the hell we want. {As long as legitimate lol, and not being annoying/a jerk}



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vorpal on 2006-11-17 23:32 ]</font>

[watashiwa]

On 2006-11-17 22:42, EJ wrote:
The only reason that the hunter is on the other side of the area is probably because they decided to be rambo and try to take on a mob by themselves. And there no way I'm going to chase someone down for their stupidty.



.. or, you know, the monsters don't match up on everybody's client. It happens all the time.

You might see a person swinging at air half way across the room but the damage is landing on a monster right next to you.

[DonRoyale]

On 2006-11-17 23:10, BloodDragoon wrote:
Only thing I find funny here is someone that according to their sig never played this game in network mode let alone A rank missions in Neudaiz assuming they know everything about what happens in multiplayer on missions.

A person's worth at a game is never determined by their level. If you ask me, I'm probably a better player than 95% of the people who've posted in this topic. But whatever, I'm not here to brag about how I have more brain matter than most people, I'm here to clear up issues, express my opinions, and flame noobs.


On 2006-11-17 23:10, BloodDragoon wrote:There is such a thing as a lazy force, there is also such a thing as a lazy hunter.

That goes without saying. Of course there's gonna be one instance where the Hunters are hard at work while Mr. Lazy Force is at the other side of the arena picking his nose. I'm just saying that people think that just because they can't cater to their every whim, that they can't bow before you and heal you every 2 seconds, and can't heal even the slightest wound, THAT SOMEONE IS A LAZY FORCE. Gawd, if you don't want to see n00bish forces, then get the fuck off the first two universes. Plain and fucking simple. >>


On 2006-11-17 23:10, BloodDragoon wrote:Currently in network mode only Forces have access to Technic's period.

At least I'm willing to admit that's where I'm mistaken, glad you managed to clear that up.

ST better update techs and whatnot soon, I don't want multiple topics of this nature sprouting left and right, it's just bullshit that's caused by ST's obvious laziness in updating our shit. >>


On 2006-11-17 23:10, BloodDragoon wrote:Mates heal half as much HP online as they do offline.

Knew that. Your point? Sorry to be abrupt, but mates heal HP regardless. You use them when you're in a tight situation, so I can break from the group to heal you. As much as I'd like to support, I can't always. That's what mates are for, dude.


On 2006-11-17 23:10, BloodDragoon wrote:No one here said a force couldn't nuke, however they do imply having enough common sense to know when to nuke and when to heal.

Again, that goes without saying. I'm just saying that people think that the ONLY thing Forces are for is to heal. It's ignorant, stupid, and downright SELFISH. You want to be selfish, you don't get my help. I'll stick with the people who can play this game in a civilized fashion, thank you very much. You selfish noobs can go rot in a ditch for all I care.


On 2006-11-17 23:10, BloodDragoon wrote:Primary reason these topics keep popping up IMO are due to people who only ever see 1 side of the discussion.

That's where I must point out that you are mistaken. I've never take sides. I balance the scales. Why? Because all people see us as are to be there for you. We only live to serve. Yeah. Fucking. Right.

Oh, and to the guy who was idiotic enough to flame me: I have been playing a Force for 2 years now. I think I know by now how to properly play one, so I'm not the one who fails at classes.

And I'm not the one who fails at spelling or grammar either >>

[Genobee]

Then SOLO if you wanna play how you like, don't go into a group and not be support as a support class.

[Rider]

Because they have the ability to heal.

[watashiwa]

Well, I play in Universe 1 all the time.. and sometimes I play as a FOcaseal.. I don't seem to have any trouble both supporting the party with Resta and Reverser while occasionally casting an offensive technic from time to time...

It really isn't that hard.. if you're a force and find managing both support and offense at the same time difficult, then perhaps being a Force is not for you. As stated in the description of the class, they're for advanced players... You'd be better off with a one track job like Hunter or Ranger.. Pure damage. (Well, maybe Ranger might even be difficult for you because you need to learn when to use diferent elements or status effects..)

[Vorpal]

I heal, but I can't play to my prefered style since Expert Classes are not out.

And you continue to make it sound like we need to walk next to you and resta every milisecond lol.

[Vorpal]

I've managing both very well xD, except maybe boss fights, where it's too easy to get OHKO'd. I glady heal nearby players, and I walk around when needed, but Rambo-style Hunters get on my nerves sometimes lol.

[Kit630]

Is it more lazy to rely on a Force to heal you, or is it more lazy not to run over to someone who needs it while fighting a boss? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Rhetorical question.

[Vorpal]

Heh. Since of a Force's puny HP, it's easy to get One-Shotted. Unless they're near and the boss isn't about to nuke me with flying balls of omega fury, I'll heal.

[Kit630]

Thats what I get for posting a response to something on page one. Damn, long thread ;3.

I think it depends on the Force. Some are willing to take risks, others prefer to sit back and shoot fire. What I hate is the ones that dont even heal after a wave of monsters. I don't expect the force to heal me in the brink of battle, but with my force I at LEAST heal at the end of each wave of enemy. And if you can keep track of everyone's HP, why not heal em? I guess I'm used to WHM from FF11... Some people can and some people can't. It depends on the force.

[BloodDragoon]

On 2006-11-17 23:43, Vorpal wrote:

And you continue to make it sound like we need to walk next to you and resta every milisecond lol.



I'd honestly leave and find a new party if they were that bad lol.

Though I've been noticing a sort of trend in the damage I take as a hunter seems to be based mostly on the number of people in my games. Dunno if it's just me or not.

Solo and 4+ people I take very little damage even on A rank missions (albeit progression is slow soloing but I'm not burning items to do it.)

2-3 people in game I tend to take alot more damage than usual and all I can figure on the cause of this is unlike soloing I don't know how much damage each monster has taken, where they landed from a PA, etc, while the damage output isnt high enough yet to clear the room fast enough for the first part not to matter.

I'll admit on A rank missions with a force in the party I usually take a couple extra hits intentionally here and there for no reason other than charging my SUV gauge faster. But I limit that to fodder enemies like Ageeta, Polti, Badria, etc...

As it stands now a force in most cases on A rank missions will need to deal damage while keeping an eye out for when things suddenly go bad such as someone getting caught in the AoE ice attack from a Kamatoze. They should be able to focus a bit more on damage output later when expert classes are added and there will be techer hybrids to lighten the healing/support role a bit.

[BloodDragoon]

On 2006-11-18 00:01, Kit630 wrote:

I guess I'm used to WHM from FF11... Some people can and some people can't. It depends on the force.



WHM heal? Funny I leveled it to 37 without ever casting a cure spell. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[BooChan]

This again?! Dood! You picked class you play the class how it is supposed to be played. Its all selfishness really. And wannabe intellectuals just wanting to play devils advocate. I haven't played with or partied with many selfish forces. Most of them took the time to heal. Even though a few were healing themselves and I just happen to be around them at the time. We also got emo force players who don't like being told what to do or sensitive when they are being ordered to heal. Forces are a minority online so quite a few force players are jerks on principle alone. Because they want to play how they see fit and not according to the class itself. A noob player whether they are a hunter,force,or ranger is still a noob. So hating on a class because of some players poor play or lack of experience is just stupid.An experienced hunter always carries mates. An experienced Force always has rrsta equiped for quick use.

[Nietzsche]

I can't belive this is even a real debate.....

if you can't manage to DD and heal once or twice a room i wish you the best of luck online i seriously do
if you can't at least take basic care of your hp with mates without depending on a force same thing
oh and people keep mentioning that ranger and force spend so much on photon, i pretty much pa spam like its my fucking job and i stick pretty close to pp charge cost with my ranger friend
also megid one shotted me tonight in a C mission and i nearly shat myself

the end

[BloodDragoon]

On 2006-11-18 00:14, BooChan wrote:
This again?! Dood! You picked class you play the class how it is supposed to be played. Its all selfishness really. And wannabe intellectuals just wanting to play devils advocate. I haven't played with or partied with many selfish forces. Most of them took the time to heal. Even though a few were healing themselves and I just happen to be around them at the time. We also got emo force players who don't like being told what to do or sensitive when they are being ordered to heal. Forces are a minority online so quite a few force players are jerks on principle alone. Because they want to play how they see fit and not according to the class itself. A noob player whether they are a hunter,force,or ranger is still a noob. So hating on a class because of some players poor play or lack of experience is just stupid.An experienced hunter always carries mates. An experienced Force always has rrsta equiped for quick use.



Nah, an intelligent hunter carries mates. An experienced hunter carries life insurance. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[BooChan]

LMAO.That should be my sig.

[DoubleJG]

Because players are lazy about using their mates. Simple.

[BooChan]

Not the people I've party with. I burn mates like crazy during A rank missions.

[Kalier]

i love my force(as i've said before), and while i do a good job keeping people's health up if they aren't across the room, i'm not gonna heal someone who's yelling at me for a heal.

I'm doing my job, damaging things, occasional status conditions, removing status problems, and healing, i don't need some asshole who can BARELY play their character, telling me how to play mine.

I buy monomates on my force, AND dish out 400-600 meseta for recharges, at level 29. there's no reason a Hunter, who's been getting healed consistently before he drops into the yellow, needs to yell at me to heal his lazy ass when he can pop a mate, or come find me instead of standing in the middle of 4 mobs getting hit still.

That being said, while i -do- keep people healed(and actually make it my priority), it should not be EXPECTED of forces to heal you, ESPECIALLY when you are completely capable of healing yourself. it's lazy, and on top of that it's highly rude to tell other people how to play their character, especially when they were probably on the way over there to you.

While yes, currently forces don't have a big selection of techs available to them, in the near future they will. you'll have support forces who buff, debuff, heal, and you'll have forces who do considerable damage with their techs, especially as you get upon higher level areas.

Forces are NOT your personal healbot. if you want that, get Lou, and have her get injured to the yellow and she'll pop out a rod and start healing. if a force doesn't want to focus on healing, that's their choice, just like a ranger who steps in to melee, or a hunter that whips out a handgun and shoots things from a distance to -not- get hit.

granted, a force who never heals really needs to reevaluate their class choice.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kalier on 2006-11-18 01:11 ]</font>

[Bones2]

What the hell is wrong with you guys?FOs should be healing.You dont hear Hunters complaining bout having to attack things.FOs can do something other people cant so they are expected to do it.i guess Hunters shouldnt be dealing out large amounts of damage cause other people expect them to.

[Mystil]

On 2006-11-17 18:01, Zeta wrote:
Because they have the ****ing spell!?

What kind of idiotic question is this? Resta...Nah, I'll just use a Monomate.

Bloody hell. If you can, you should.


ROTFLMAO...I said the same thing to myself when I read the title.

Come on people D:, if someone is being a meanie to you just let them drop. It changes thier attitude VERY quickly.

[Shigecki]

If you die in a game with a force in it, it's not because of the force, it's because you died. I didn't read anywhere in this entire post where someone who played a force said they will never cast resta. If it was said, then where?

This is what I came to understand from this thread:

Nonforce player: forces should use resta all the time.
Force player: we will cast resta, but you should also rely on your mates.
Nonforce reply: why wouldn't you use resta, you have it. Why don't you want to use resta?
Force reply: I will use resta, but you do have mates, and you might need to use them.
Non force reply: you're just being lazy, you have resta, why don't you want to use it? That is you job!
Force player: I will use resta, but sometimes you need to heal yourself.

Get what I'm saying. No where in this post is anyone who plays a force saying that they will never use resta, just that it's not their job to heal every scrape and bruise. It's no longer their job to make sure the whole team is taken care of. It is up to each player to take care of theirselves. They will be helped out by the force if it is possible.

Gone are the days of PSO. This isn't PSO. I played force for around 500 levels in PSO, but those days are gone. No longer can a force go into a room, hit every enemy in the room with J/Z and get their exp from that and take care of the others. Forces need their exp too!

If you need to tell someone to heal you, it's probably too late, and you're dead. Not the forces fault, but your fault for not paying attention to your stats.

Again, no one that plays a force is saying that they won't heal you, they're just saying that you might need to heal yourself sometimes.

For the record, 43 level hunter, 20 level force. I never rely on anyone to keep me alive. That's my job.

[Nixia]

On 2006-11-18 09:24, Shigecki wrote:
If you die in a game with a force in it, it's not because of the force, it's because you died. I didn't read anywhere in this entire post where someone who played a force said they will never cast resta. If it was said, then where?

This is what I came to understand from this thread:

Nonforce player: forces should use resta all the time.
Force player: we will cast resta, but you should also rely on your mates.
Nonforce reply: why wouldn't you use resta, you have it. Why don't you want to use resta?
Force reply: I will use resta, but you do have mates, and you might need to use them.
Non force reply: you're just being lazy, you have resta, why don't you want to use it? That is you job!
Force player: I will use resta, but sometimes you need to heal yourself.

Get what I'm saying. No where in this post is anyone who plays a force saying that they will never use resta, just that it's not their job to heal every scrape and bruise. It's no longer their job to make sure the whole team is taken care of. It is up to each player to take care of theirselves. They will be helped out by the force if it is possible.

Gone are the days of PSO. This isn't PSO. I played force for around 500 levels in PSO, but those days are gone. No longer can a force go into a room, hit every enemy in the room with J/Z and get their exp from that and take care of the others. Forces need their exp too!

If you need to tell someone to heal you, it's probably too late, and you're dead. Not the forces fault, but your fault for not paying attention to your stats.

Again, no one that plays a force is saying that they won't heal you, they're just saying that you might need to heal yourself sometimes.

For the record, 43 level hunter, 20 level force. I never rely on anyone to keep me alive. That's my job.



I love you! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

QFT

[Alisha]

it just occured to me that people reading this topic might get the impression that i play force when i dont. i play hunter and ranger and dont like depending on others i try to be as self sufficient as possible. i was unaware that mates heal less online but that doesnt change much from my perspective. i actually think at high levels gi resta may heal more total hp than resta. love that regen effect on it.

[kevington]

I use a Force, currently level 43. I usually play with a regular group, but I decided to start an open game (all items set to In Order, of course) on Moatoob. We did the first A mission and eventually the boss. Boy am I spoiled with how good my group is. These guys would just let themselves die and shout out "I'm paralyzed!" "I'm poisoned!" every time anything would happen to them. Oh and how can I forget "Heal! HEAL HEALLL!" It would have been physically impossible to get to everyone every time even if I weren't trying to get hits in on the enemies myself. It was ridiculous. They would act offended every time I didn't switch out my weapon to cast Reverser on their being poisoned. If I can get to you, I'll reverser you out of being stunned or frozen, but poisoned?! It's just not that big of a deal.

The last and most absurd straw came at the boss. The hunters were crying that I wasn't using my bow enough yet couldn't comprehend that every time I pulled it out for first person mode there was a strong chance I'd be stuck then killed by tornados. A level 50 Beast hunter let his health go down to a tiny sliver, so I'm chasing him all over the map while dodging tornados, and he's RUNNING AWAY FROM ME! He died. Then he finally speaks up and says "well, I was dying and no one came to heal me." I should have booted his ass, but I didn't.

Anyway hunters, carry mates, carry antimates, put them on your pallette and use them. If you want me to Revereser you, start carrying Sol Atomizers and heal ME every once in a while when I get stunned. Oh, and saying "thank you" once out of the 200 times I heal you in a game would be appreciated. Thanks, your friendly neighborhood Force.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kevington on 2006-11-21 15:31 ]</font>