Kid gets tasered. People go crazy.

[Shattered_weasel]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5g7zlJx9u2E

A link of come High School kid getting tased a few days ago. Now after reading many of the posts from other people and responses from people I really don't know I want to see what people that I have an idea of how their mindset is responses.

I personally think that the kid got what was coming for him. I mean after you are asked by library employees once to present an ID and you don't you are tresspassing. Instead the library gave him another chance and he still refused. That is when they called the cops into this. Now apparently when the cops came he was leaving. Maybe this was because he saw the cops and thought "O SHI-" or maybe he was really leaving but according to all the news reports I have read they have said that one of the officers had grabbed his arm. Another maybe thrown into this would be the officer was trying to get the boys attention and what not.

Now after the boy's arm was grabbed he started to get loud and disrespectful. One thing everyone knows is you don't yell at police. I have had my run-ins with the law a few times in my life. EVERY TIME (except twice) I was in the wrong and I was able to talk my way out of it easily. By being polite and talking in a level tone. Of course this is not what he does.

After he goes crazy from the cop grabbing his arm they attempt to subdue him and force him out for real. Now he goes limp and will not comply. This is when the movie kicks in (I think). After the officers tell him to stand up more than once and he still does not listen they taser him. After the tasing is done he is still able to resist after being dragged a few feet (and shouting somethings about the Patriot Act and what not). He still does not comply and get's tasered again and dragged. Again and dragged. Again and then it seems like he is able to walk and that is the end.

Now everyone is going ape shit about this being police brutality. I have to disagree. Many of the things that were done were in the policy for use. Such as the taser.

UCPD policy on Tasering

The UCPD's policy on Tasering calls Tasers a "less lethal device," and says that "Although not absolutely prohibited, officers should give additional consideration to the unique circumstances involved prior to applying the Taser to . . . Individuals who are handcuffed or otherwise restrained." According to the policy, besides dangerous animals, it is acceptable to use Tasers on violent or potentially violent, physically resisting or potentially physically resistive individuals. The "Drive Stun" capacity is appropriate "to eliminate physical resistance from an arrestee in accomplishing an arrest or physical search."

From Wikipedia

Some others say that he might not be able to move because of the taser. This is another thing that I have to disagree with. This kid looked more worried about becoming a martyr then telling the police that he can't move. Words such as "Here's your Patriot Act" and "Fuck Off" were spouted before he even stated that he had a "medical condition".

Also in the video the officer says stand up 23 times before tasering him a second time. This should be enough warning to know that either your body does not work. Hell after the second time they give the kid a shock they give him 1 min and some odd seconds to get the fuck up.

Now to the one part of the thing I disagree with. That is why was he not dragged out without the tasing. I mean if you look at COPS (the show) they get physical and pull the asshole around. I wonder why they didn't do that. (Another) Maybe could be that they didn't want to roll around the ground with some kid and hurt both him more and themselves. This could be a reason.

In the end though I was dissapointed to hear that Keith was not on my side http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif. O well. Maybe next time sexy.

[KojiroAK]

Are there reports this guy was on drugs?

It sounds a little bit like he was.

And they didn't know if he had a gun or a knife.
Or was there a metal detector at the entry?

[PJ]

What annoys me is how we're baby-proofing our whole world for everyone. That includes punishment for doing something wrong.

Problem is, as I've learned, sometimes you NEED a smack to teach you a lesson. How do most of these kids know they've done something wrong without fear of a reaction like that again, if there is no reaction to begin with?

So, the cops did their job, and they did it damn right. That kid is an idiot. So many warnings, he had what was coming to him.

[Shattered_weasel]

On 2006-11-18 04:24, KojiroAK wrote:
Are there reports this guy was on drugs?

It sounds a little bit like he was.

And they didn't know if he had a gun or a knife.
Or was there a metal detector at the entry?



I doubt that either of those are true. Although I have heard the drug part more than once.

[geewj]

On 2006-11-18 02:27, Shattered_weasel wrote:
Now to the one part of the thing I disagree with. That is why was he not dragged out without the tasing. I mean if you look at COPS (the show) they get physical and pull the asshole around. I wonder why they didn't do that. (Another) Maybe could be that they didn't want to roll around the ground with some kid and hurt both him more and themselves. This could be a reason.



COPS is kind of extreme. For the most part they just want you doing what they say. No reasons to needlessly risk wrestling around with the guy if you've got him on a non-lethal leash. In their line of work they can be dealing with anyone, so you have to take percautions to keep yourself safe.

[Kizaragu]

[b]On 2006-11-18 02:27, Shattered_weasel This kid looked more worried about becoming a martyr then telling the police that he can't move. Words such as "Here's your Patriot Act" and "Fuck Off" were spouted before he even stated that he had a "medical condition".

Quoted for truth.

I personally don't know what happened before the video began, but I feel there actions were justified. How many warnings does one person need before they take a hint!?

*Gets tazerd once.*
Big scream then claims he said he'd leave.
Instead he decides to go on a long rant about the Patriot Act because he can. Thoughts about really leaving are clearly not apparent. People are crowding round to watch and he's the center of attention. Why would he leave?
"Hey! I'll be the talk of the village. I'll be seen as a man fighting for the greater good. May even get on the news. Chick dig that."

These guys have tazers. They've just used it on you and ARE CLEARLY not messing around.
"Get up. Get up. Get up..."
More rants from senior dickhead.
"Get up. Get up. Get up or we'll use the tazer again."
More ranting and then after more warnings, they tazer him again.
His reply? "I said I'd leave." and then MORE RANTING. Ha!
The problem is, they were willing to go through with their actions, yet he wasn't.

To sum up my post as a whole, I have this to say:
Get off your high horse you attention seeking emo bastard. You deserved it and are ironically, the sort of nutter they have these tazers made for.

[DLShAdOw]

The dumb part was that all the students were standing around saying "don't taser him!!"

I would have been yelling "You retard get the fuck up if you don't want to get your ass tasered again!"

lol on the youtube page there was a link to the schools newspaper, this was a quote from one student:

"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."

lol it's a shock.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DLShAdOw on 2006-11-18 13:57 ]</font>

[Sgt_Shligger]

Punk deserved it. You don't f' with cops. Cop tells you to do something, you do it calmly and promptly.

That tazer is there for a reason. . . Would the kid have prefered to get maced? Whacked by a billy club? Shot?

[Otis_Kat]

He had it coming, plain and simple. Kids these days have been conditioned to the fact that most of the time, they can get away with anything, and when it comes time they don't they go apeshit and call harassment and the such.


Sadly, no newspaper or other media would be able to express their true opinion(if they thought the police's actions were justified) because of the backlash from all the nutcase people who are out to "protect" everyone, even if they were in the wrong.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Otis_Kat on 2006-11-18 15:57 ]</font>

[Wyndham]

I once had a problem with two policemen. when I was ill, they threatened that unless i walk calmly to the hospitol, that when i was discharged, they'd arrest me. I wasn't stupid enough to disagree.

[Zelutos]

I would have stepped in and showed those coppers what's up. For all they know, he couldn't get up cause they tasered the hell out of him.

[Scrub]

On 2006-11-18 17:30, Zelutos wrote:
I would have stepped in and...



And you would've gotten tasered too.




On topic, serves him right, haha. Heaven Forbid the police try to do their job.

[Dangerous55]

Who the fuck goes to a library?

[Scrub]

On 2006-11-18 18:46, Dangerous55 wrote:
Who the fuck goes to a library?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/GreyPhantasm/brainbig.gif

Only nerds.

[Shattered_weasel]

On 2006-11-18 17:30, Zelutos wrote:
I would have stepped in and showed those coppers what's up. For all they know, he couldn't get up cause they tasered the hell out of him.




On 2006-11-18 02:27, Shattered_weasel wrote:

Some others say that he might not be able to move because of the taser. This is another thing that I have to disagree with. This kid looked more worried about becoming a martyr then telling the police that he can't move. Words such as "Here's your Patriot Act" and "Fuck Off" were spouted before he even stated that he had a "medical condition".



On top of this the Taser was set to "Drive-Stun" which is the low setting on a taser.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shattered_weasel on 2006-11-18 20:01 ]</font>

[Otis_Kat]

Plus stepping in their way at that point, or really any point, will have legal consequences.

[Blitzkommando]

On 2006-11-18 16:27, Oran1324 wrote:
I once had a problem with two policemen. when I was ill, they threatened that unless i walk calmly to the hospitol, that when i was discharged, they'd arrest me. I wasn't stupid enough to disagree.



Depending on the disease you can be charged for not following the directions of a doctor. I know mono is that way in that you are creating a public endangerment. It's similar to having sex and infecting someone with a lethal disease in that if the person doesn't tell their partner beforehand the partner can have the person who infected them charged for murder.

As for the kid, he got what was coming to him. He was acting as ignorant as he was stupid and paid for it. Whether or not one of the officers grabbed his arm or not he shouldn't have done what he did. They wanted his attention and got it, but unfortunately for both parties involved the kid was stupid and decided to 'rebel against authority'. The fact that the library had to even call the police in the first place should be a clue in that this was probably inevitable with the kid, it just might not have happened then but at some later date but it most likely would've happened. Maybe spending some time in the slammer will wake the kid up, but I somehow doubt it.

[Kent]

Hmm... When I saw "kid gets tasered," I was expecting to see a normally rowdy and unpleasant child, get zapped... But see this, instead.

It's a well-known fact that police are exceptionally prone to power abuse. I don't know the whole story behind this, but the whole quip where the cop threatened to taser someone standing nearby, makes me think this is more likely of a case.

[Sord]

On 2006-11-18 02:27, Shattered_weasel wrote:
Now everyone is going ape shit about this being police brutality. I have to disagree. Many of the things that were done were in the policy for use. Such as the taser.


just because something is in the policy, doesn't exactly mean the policy itself is right (though what is "right" is mostly opinion and debatable) That's why the US has the supreme court, to nullify amendments that are against the constitution (in theory anyways >_>) Granted, the guy certainly can't plead ignorance if he really was a student there. By joining he agreed to abide by their rules. I'm just pointing out that because something is in an official policy doesn't mean it is right.


On 2006-11-18 02:27, Shattered_weasel wrote:

Now to the one part of the thing I disagree with. That is why was he not dragged out without the tasing. I mean if you look at COPS (the show) they get physical and pull the asshole around. I wonder why they didn't do that. (Another) Maybe could be that they didn't want to roll around the ground with some kid and hurt both him more and themselves. This could be a reason.


as geewj said, the COPS show is a a bit extreme. Which, of course it is. Nobody is going to bother watching a show where cops come in and the person being arrested quitely complies and nothing major happens. What's more, considering the fact that thousands (probably millions) of crimes are commited each year, only a very small amount of that gets to land on shows such as COPS. On top of that, many videos are recycled, especially between diffrent shows that share the same point. At times the videos might even be a few years old. All in all, I would say that isn't the best comparison, though your initial point about less harm is valid, but only depending on how the person reacts to being tasered. That can vary from person to person.




Anyways, now that I'm done with my normal habit of pointing out technicalities... Personally, I don't exactly like the fact they used tasers, but it isn't something I will reject. The phrase "Stand up or we'll taser you again," does actually sound a bit like an abuse of power. The guy is just sitting there, doing no physical damage, granted he is yelling his head off, but not hurting anyone. I really would prefer weapons that use pain only be used when there is actual physical aggresion or hint of it.

For starters, I doubt you are going to be in a perfect state of mind if you have just felt several thousand volts shoot through your body. I've never had it happen, but somehow I think it would really hurt. That much pain can release some serious chemicals in your brain that won't exactly allow you to process things straight. In some instances (though not in this case) it can send a person in shock, in rare cases it can kill.

For those that argue the fact that he started to try and make himself out as a martyre or attention whore, there is an argument against that to. Try having someone shock you with 60,000 volts and see if you can keep from creating some complaint to not be shocked again despite you are being threatened repeatedly. Yes, the guy could have complied and gotten up and walked, since we know he could walk near the end after several shocks, but once again, when you are dealing with that much pain, you don't think straight. Not all humans instinctive action to pain is to immediatly cooperate. Most of the time, in both humans and animals, it is to resist whatever the source of the pain is (in this case the cops.) Especially if you feel you have been wronged.

As I said before, I don't like tasers being used in such instances, but I will tolerate them. In the mean time though, I suggest better, less chaotic solutions be researched. If you could develop a sedative that doesn't have harsh side-effects and is effective, then I would go with that. If you shock or shoot a guy you're going to have noise and possably some screaming, which leads to everyone huddling around and checking out what is going on, their presence possably making the situation worse (especially if the criminal is violent, and even worse, armed.)

Lets say you used it in this situation. Instead of the first taser, the man gets tranqued with an air or spring loaded gun. The man might not even realize he has been shot since little noise is generated and needles don't excruciatingly hurt. If he does realize he has been hit, then he might have a little time to mumble a resistance before going numb and passing out.

Hardly any noise would be generated, half the school would not be out of their seats and classes. Since the guy is numbed or knocked out, he can be picked up, moved, or dragged without worry of resistance and harm.

Sure, it will take awhile to make something like that, which is why I don't raise a fuss about tasers being used, but ultimately I think that is what should be strived for. Even if you don't care about the criminal, the lack of attention it will create is healthy for the people in the surrounding area.

Another reason that sort of ties in with the less attention thing:

though its ocurence is only currently theoretical, a full resistance from the spectators could occcur. As everyone who watched the video heard, many were saying "they can't do that!" or "this is wrong!" etc. etc. Now lets say this starts to happen to much, and the students get fed up with it. Then they might actually start helping the guy, and even attack the cops as a group. In that case, those few cops would be royally fucked even though they were just trying to do their job. However, if no one heard what was going on, then guess what, no one is there to complain and riot.

If you still want the criminal to be hurt, then we'll just let the excruciating headache of a hangover slide through testing *sly grin*

[Shattered_weasel]

On 2006-11-18 22:31, Kent wrote:
Hmm... When I saw "kid gets tasered," I was expecting to see a normally rowdy and unpleasant child, get zapped... But see this, instead.

It's a well-known fact that police are exceptionally prone to power abuse. I don't know the whole story behind this, but the whole quip where the cop threatened to taser someone standing nearby, makes me think this is more likely of a case.



I think it is time to learn the back story.

This was one of those rowdy and unpleasent kids. On top of that have you ever arrested someone while being yelled at to see your badges and to stop what you are doing by 15-30 people. Yea, these threats they made were also inside code seeing as how what they were doing was disrupting an arrest.

As for Sord. The use of the taser was mainly because the kid was becoming violent. He was not complying to what the cops wanted him to do so they made him do it. The hard way. Also cops have to go through a training before they are able to use Tasers. One that involves them getting tased themselves. So more than likely they know what tasing does.

Also I agree that if they could make some sort of tranq that would work out better.

More News from other people that were there.
1. He had his ID on him.
2. He WAS NOT leaving. He was sitting down when the cops got to him.

[Dangerous55]

Tranqs? Heck no, thats some 1984 stuff right there.

[Shattered_weasel]

1984? Hell no, that's some porn stuff right there.

[Sord]

On 2006-11-18 23:08, Shattered_weasel wrote:
As for Sord. The use of the taser was mainly because the kid was becoming violent. He was not complying to what the cops wanted him to do so they made him do it. The hard way. Also cops have to go through a training before they are able to use Tasers. One that involves them getting tased themselves. So more than likely they know what tasing does.

well, now that you give more of a back story, yeah, go ahead and taser the guy. It's just the camera really doesn't give a good view of the guy. I'll admit I was to lazy to check out background stuff, which is kind of hypocritical of me since I'm so technical about everything else. So... *shrugs*

although the cops undergo tasering themselve (I actaully have seen this, they were showing it back when everyone threw a fit about tasers in schools,) they are already aware that they are at least going to be hit, even if they do not know exactly when. They also know that should anything really serious develop, doctors or staff with medical training are usually on hand.

Now maybe if they scheduled random attacks by officials disguised as attackers... *another sly grin*

In all seriousness though, the cops do deserve credit for undergoing the taser. Morally it adds to the "Don't do to others what you wouldn't do to yourself," and they are aware of how much pain they could be dishing out. Just not the exact mindset, which is probably just me getting technical again.

To any of those who don't like cops or think they are to brutal, you try spending several years of service in a job where your life can be threatened every day and you could die with a flip of a switch or the pull of a trigger. Chances are you would be jumpy to, and would want to get any situation under control, even if it means completely immobolizing the criminal in a way that seems brutal. Granted, yes there are cases where there is a serious issue, but this, like COPS, isn't actually the norm. It is just what sells in media so it is the majority of what you are going to hear unless you actually go out and veiw things for yourself.

Hell, it is off-topic, but here's a story of just how bad the news can be. Our local branch of Fox News has gotten several complaints over the years about showing almost nothing but bad news. So, what does Fox do? They ask residents to send in news of good deeds and such. So, basically unspoken, they aren't going to spend time or money finding it themselves. Apparently that just isn't profitable.



After posting this I decided to go ahead and read up on it myself, as well as browse youtube a little. Well, apparently the students had a rally, pretty decent size to. Naturally, there are clips. I also have a pdf of the official campus policy on tasers.

pdf of Taser Guide (http://www.dailybruin.com/documents/2006/11/17/taserpolicy.pdf)
The only thing in this that possably puts officers in the wrong is that they should "give additional consideration" when using the taser if the person is already handcuffed or restrained. But it does not say they can not use it because of that. Everything else they used it for is well within the policy.

Daily Bruin's Taser Rally video (http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=39014)
Daily Bruin (http://dailybruin.com/news/home.asp) is the school's student newspaper. Feel free to jump around there and read up on the subject. They give info on what happened, as well as student views on both sides of the argument.



youtube user's page where five clips of rally can be accessed, you can't miss 'em (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=uclastudent2008)


remember how I said theoretically students might get fed up and go against the police? well, it sorta happened, didn't escalate to anything major though. after the rally the people marched to the local station. This quote is from the student paper's site (the first video's source)


About 400 students rallied on campus today at noon, and then marched to the UCPD station.

When they reached the station, UCPD officers closed down the station, locking the doors, turning off the lights, and dressing in riot gear.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sord on 2006-11-19 01:56 ]</font>

[astuarlen]

I don't really feel like repeating what others have said re: taser boy, but I agree with Dangerous about the idea of tranquillizers; that kind of thing seriously disturbs me. :<

[EphekZ]

Dont know if this matters much, but There's a rule for the library; before [insert time here] you dont need ID, but after that time you do. So apparently he was there before that time so I think that's where some of the refusal to cooperate came from.

[Shattered_weasel]

You need an ID after 11pm because homeless people would come in and sleep there. Also this is the Kid's 3rd year there. So this means he has no excuse for not knowing the rule.

[Shadowpawn]

On 2006-11-18 18:07, Scrub wrote:

On 2006-11-18 17:30, Zelutos wrote:
I would have stepped in and...



And you would've gotten tasered too.



Funnest non-FKL comment I've seen all day.

[AC9breaker]

wtf & lmfao @ white kids threatening cops


How cheeky!

[Ryudo]

It was on drive stun mode, it's weak, it hurts less than a punch and he screamed like such a little bastard, if I was there I'd have run over and beaten the shit out of him myself for being such a pussy