To Element, or not to Elemet?

[DizzyDi]

Non-Elemental
Pros
- All your weapons are good for any situation

- Cheaper

- Not using up half your inv. space just so you can have a whole buncha elemental weapons

Cons
- Not as much damage output as an elemental hunter

Elemental
Pros
- Potential huge damage out put

Cons
- Expensive! Having to synth the same weapon over and over just to get each of the elements

- Takes up a good deal of inv. space

- A lot of switching


So what do yous guys think? Its just a question I've been pondering over. Its a pain trying to gather weapons of every element, espcially ones with a good %.

[Ronin1of47]

i voted for elemental hunter.
i like to make a differnt weapon of all elements max out its photon and pick a new weapon to synth and max out.
just me though

[Flunky]

Elemental all the way.

Unless you've got horribly low element %s, an elemental weapon with one star less rarity can cause more damage than a rarer weapon. Considering the price jumps in weapon rarity, this means that along with grinding you'll be able to dish out considerable damage with elemental weapons.

I always keep one weapon of each element. There was a time my only 4-star weapon left was my ice dagger- however, it would still cause more damage to fire enemies than an equally upgraded (4 grinds) 5-star weapon of the same company and a neutral element. The old dagger had 18% ice element, which is on the lower end of what's out there.

The only thing missing in that scheme is the factor of ATA, which will be lower in that case.

It would still be cheapest to get -one- powerful weapon and do a little less damage than it would be to get a bunch of cheaper elemental weapons, but the elementals also add a much greater PP pool and versatility- after all, you can use a different weapon in each element and thus can have both elemental and situational advantages. It helps to plan ahead which weapon will be what element based on the common types of enemies you encounter with that element's strength.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Flunky on 2006-11-18 23:21 ]</font>

[Brian777]

i voted for elemental as well.

i dont synth each element for a weapon, since i feel that a handful of different elements get the job done. Earth works well against most things, and ofcourse i keep a lightning, and light and maybe dark.

that way you dont crowd up your inventory, and you can deal more damage to most enemies over a non-elemental weapon.

[Fin]

Element for me as well. If you don't have the right element.. I haven't seen much of a penalty for using the "wrong" one (as long as you don't use the same element as the monster) so it can't seem to hurt.

[Thoridan]

Im gonna say non-elemental. And when I casted my vote I considered the future of PSU. I'm pretty sure, with how hard it is to make mesta, the economy is going to stay relativly stable...and S-Rank high level weaponry is going to be pretty darn expensive. That being said; I feel it is safe to assume that not many people are going to want to be buying multiple elements. In fact, I would even bet that in the future with S-Rank weapons...non-elemental would be a bit more expensive. =


EDIT: But as it stands now, since most people use 5* weapons having multiple weapons is afordable and is the best choice.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Thoridan on 2006-11-19 05:25 ]</font>

[etlitch]

There's no reason not to go elemental once you have a good amount of m in your inventory at later stages.

They won't take your inventory space, since you don't carry all your elemental weapons with you whole the time. Just bring the ones you know that the mission you're about to do has enemies weak against.

Using them against opposite element monsters grants a bonus of (elemental value +7)% damage. Which means a simple 10% light brand would grant you +17% bonus damage vs any dark monster.

As for S-rank weapons: AFAIK there S-rank weapons does'nt even exist in JP PSU network mode. Even if they are implented, I highly doubt that they'l be much stronger if stronger at all compared to a grinded elemental 8* or 9* weapons.

Heck, I've never seen any Agrinder or Sgrinder boards at all. You can find the materials but you can't make the grinders due to missing boards?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: etlitch on 2006-11-19 05:53 ]</font>

[Thoridan]

Theyll put S-Rank in the game later...with updates. Thats why I said in the future..as in..next year maybe.

[Wrenlocke]

what if your not a hunter cause hunters are not my personal choice... I'm a ranger, and I have 10-12 guns on me at all times.... I swap out guns with different bullets for different monsters all the time.

Honestly if you over level 40 and your not doing this by now, your wrong! WRONG!



mod-edit:
user received a verbal warning for cursing. congratulations.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2006-11-20 13:39 ]</font>

[Eliash]

On 2006-11-19 00:05, Fin wrote:
Element for me as well. If you don't have the right element.. I haven't seen much of a penalty for using the "wrong" one (as long as you don't use the same element as the monster) so it can't seem to hurt.


The way elements work is that there are in pairs.

Fire - Ice
Earth - Lightning
Light - Dark

Using a Fire weapon on a Earth based armor/monster will not give a penalty. Fire on Fire would show up in negative damage. So that's why you weren't seeing any difference in damage for using the "wrong" element.

Hope that clears somethings up. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[DizzyDi]

On 2006-11-19 05:45, etlitch wrote:
There's no reason not to go elemental once you have a good amount of m in your inventory at later stages.

They won't take your inventory space, since you don't carry all your elemental weapons with you whole the time. Just bring the ones you know that the mission you're about to do has enemies weak against.

Using them against opposite element monsters grants a bonus of (elemental value +7)% damage. Which means a simple 10% light brand would grant you +17% bonus damage vs any dark monster.

As for S-rank weapons: AFAIK there S-rank weapons does'nt even exist in JP PSU network mode. Even if they are implented, I highly doubt that they'l be much stronger if stronger at all compared to a grinded elemental 8* or 9* weapons.

Heck, I've never seen any Agrinder or Sgrinder boards at all. You can find the materials but you can't make the grinders due to missing boards?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: etlitch on 2006-11-19 05:53 ]</font>


Well your points are kinda flawed in a few ways.
What if you don't know what missions you're going to do? What if you and a party are just going from planet to planet doing whatever? Then you either have to take a trip back to your room everytime you switch, or carry all your weapons with you. Not only that but with new missions coming you can ANTICIPATE what elements mobs are going to be but you won't know until you get there, so its best to bring all elements with you.
And when A-S rank weaponry DOES get released it'll be even more expensive to keep making different elemental weapons, no matter how much meseta you have its gunna put a hole in your pocket.
I'm leaning a bit more towards Non-elemental. Its just a pain trying to synth one of every element, and its just going to get harder.


On 2006-11-19 07:32, Wrenlocke wrote:
what if your not a hunter cause hunters are ghey... I'm a ranger, and I have 10-12 guns on me at all times.... I swap out guns with different bullets for different monsters all the time.

Honestly if you over level 40 and your not doing this by now, your wrong! WRONG!



This thread obviously doesn't apply to rangers, who can easily switch thier elements, no problem.

[tirith]

i go elemental and i carry 5 spears and a handgun/sabre combo on my mission
if you make you're own wpns just plan on using at least 2 diff element wpns <my bigger spears are ice and dark to deal with the dragon and svaltus>

[Bleemo]

I've put some hard thought into this.

No matter what, I usually seem to want to synth my weapons using non-elemental photons. It does make weapons more boring to look at, and is certainly less interesting when fighting(switching between weapons does have some interest value when fighting; it makes fighting a little less mindless), however, I'm tired of having to haul a load of weapons around. I figured once the expert class update comes out, I will carry 1 Dark Axe, 2 non-elemental Axes, 1 Ground Spear, and 2 non-elemental Spears. That would be it, unless I'm trying to level PA's.

There are many things to take into consideration though before making the decision to only craft non-elemental weapons. And there are, actually, many reasons to craft elemental weapons over non-elemental.

Don't look at it as having to craft a weapon of each element type, but crafting only one weapon of each type you will use most frequently.

In my case: Dark and Ground. Right now, and at least until more missions are released, I mostly fight mobs with Thunder and Light alignment. The neat thing about only carrying two elemental weapons is that, so long as the mob you're fighting is not of the elemental type of your weapon, you won't get any damage reduction. At most, only one of your weapons will be ineffective to a set of mobs in the mission.

The biggest question of this discussion, however, would be: are you gimping yourself by not choosing all elemental weapons? My response would be: yes.

It may be much more costly, and much more of a hassle, but your damage output increases greatly if you constantly switch weapons to match the mob's alignment in the mission you're running.

That being said: it depends on how many weapons of that type you have on your person. If you only have one weapon of an element type that some mobs are weak against, then more than likely you will have one or more weapons that some mobs are strong against. So when you empty the PP of your only weapon of that type, you will have less weapons to choose from. That's really where money comes in. How many of each weapon are you willing to craft.

I honestly don't want to worry about crafting two weapons of each element type, spending all of my pretty meseta. One weapon of the two types I use most frequently is enough for me. Keeps my inventory small, much less of a hassle, and allows me to spend money on stupid things.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-11-19 11:36 ]</font>

[Fin]

On 2006-11-19 07:49, Eliash wrote:
Using a Fire weapon on a Earth based armor/monster will not give a penalty. Fire on Fire would show up in negative damage. So that's why you weren't seeing any difference in damage for using the "wrong" element.

Hope that clears somethings up. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Oh okay. that's what I thought, but didn't have much evidence to back me up http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif In that case then, I would definitely pick element, having the correct one for the monster would just be an added bonus XD

[verc]

Ever been in a party where the hunters are high level but they suck and do like half the damage the forces are doing, and never do any PA cause they only have like 2 or 3 weapons? And everyone calls them a noob when they can never switch elements to fight a mob? Yet they are still in the draw for items and end up getting rares?

Yeah, that's the non-elemental hunter right there.

[Ravennittes]

Even elementals do less than a good force. In other words, hunters are the world's best meat-shields, i mean distractions one could ever hope for. They even go beast once in a while too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif. A good party for the new moatoob missions would be 3 or 4 beast hunters a force and a ranger, preferably the elemental hunters cause that means I have to cast less so it costs me less. It helps if they don't complain/scream like little girls when they are on fire and run in circles around be 'till I reverser them. Enough of this rant, my point is, an elemental hunter is by far more effective than a non element which is better than a mis-matched elemental hunter who is using the fire on fire kinda thing.

[Neith]

I'm a mainly non-elemental hunter, for a few reasons:

- Meseta. I'm having to save money for the next update, as I'll need a lot of new equipment. I just don't have the money to go about synthing up 3 or more of the same weapon. Player shops are too varied in price for the most part.

- Space. I have half my item pack full as it is, and I pack a variety of weapons (Spear, Sword, Twin Sabers, Saber/Handgun). I like to get a good haul on missions, to make money, so I need to keep my item pack with a fair bit of space.

- Partner Machine. I'm raising a PM that isn't a Striking one. Therefore, my melee weapon success rates won't be too great for synthing.

I do use elemental weapons, but most are either lucky synths, or from player shops that were cheap (which seems to be incredibly rare now).

I think as long as you do your job right, it doesn't matter a great deal. As stated, they both have drawbacks. I find manual switching through the item pack very slow, so I avoid it if possible.

[Grand_Rider]

Elemental.

Having a weapon for every eventuality is far more lucrative than constantly using the generic glass. The game encourages us to synthesise different weapons, the benefits of doing so are too obvious to ignore.

Obtaining and maintaining all those different types of weapons is not easy or cheap, yet it’s an expense I believe is necessary for optimum results. It’s a process, which escalates in difficulty as you go up in rank, however in return for your dedication and meseta you’re rewarded with superior equipment.

The endeavour is supposed to be time consuming.

[Randomness]

When the mobs like to show up in opposing elements, like fire and ice at same time, non-element is best.

[SabZero]

So, does an ice wepaon do less damage against ice monsters than a generic weapon?

[Neith]

Yeah, you get reduced damage if you attack a same-element monster. For example, my Lightning Ryo-Palasra only do 10 damage to Vahras in A-Rank.

[SabZero]

On 2006-11-20 06:50, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Yeah, you get reduced damage if you attack a same-element monster. For example, my Lightning Ryo-Palasra only do 10 damage to Vahras in A-Rank.


That explains why I died last night in agata islands seed purification story mission >_< (light claw and gatling)...

[Flunky]

I'd argue that even as weapons become much more rare and expensive, it'd be better to build elemental.

Why? Because if the alternative is one non-element weapon, even just two elemental weapons is superior. Considering that you do normal damage if the opponent is not part of your weapon's 'element pair', If you carry minimum two different elements of weapon you'll always at least be on even ground, but 1/3 of the enemies (2/6 elements) you'll do a good deal of bonus damage to.

Even as you get to the super-high prices of the top rank such, if it's anything like the difference between 4* and 5* (or 3* and 4*) then a 7* elemental weapon can do more damage than an 8* nonelement against the elemental weakness. My strategy is to always build element, but each new weapon I replace the oldest weapon's element. So far it's worked like a charm, and in my small amount of testing my newest fire weapon is not as good as my now-oldest earth weapon against lightning opponents.

As for inventory space, yeah it's kinda a problem. I currently use 6 sets of weapons (one for each element), but they're all gun/blade combos. In other words, I'm carrying around 12 weapons minimum. That, along with the two SUVs and soon-to-be-had other extra slot for when I'm done charging for a boss, means that I won't have as much space. However, I've found that I only really hit my space limit if I'm doing lots of planet-hopping without stopping by my storage or if I just happen to end up with a whole slew of boards.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Flunky on 2006-11-20 09:45 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

My PM's not so good at making Striking weapons, so as a hunter I built and ground up a LOT of C-level weapons in order to have full element sets. Then I leave most of them at home. You only need two or three elements on any given mission path... usually I don't have to bring anything that isn't assigned to the action palette from the get-go.

For 5* weapons I make, I keep trying non-element until I get one just to have an accurate weapon for all occasions. All remaining board uses, I try for elemental alignments and hope I luck out.

[Guilty-Mirage]

Elemental.

There is no other option.

[SabZero]

What about elemental on armor - sorry if this is a really dumb question, but I must be sure XD
Does a foo armor resist to foo, or to foos opposite? Logic would tell me that a fire armor would resist ice better than fire *shrugs*

[DizzyDi]

Foo armor resists foo, and takes extra damage to foo's opposite.
Enemies that are foo do damage of foo element, even if it just a normal physical attack.

[Metempsychic]

On 2006-11-21 06:41, DizzyDi wrote:
Foo armor resists foo, and takes extra damage to foo's opposite.
Enemies that are foo do damage of foo element, even if it just a normal physical attack.



Best. Explanation. Ever.

[lavosmanx]

I could only see the potential in this if you go to an element dominated area. What if you had the potential to find rare weapons but couldn't because your worried about every kind of element? Here is a few pointers IMO...

Take a few runs into every mission and see which elements dominate the area. Then you should consider bringing only those weapons along. That way you don't waste your space on elemental weapons you dont use anyway.

[Schubalts]

I vote non-elemental. I'd rather only need one weapon of each type I use and save meseta for other things, than have multiple weapons of those types and be poor. Not to mention being able to fight any monster without a penalty, by using a non-elemental weapon. And no, I don't run out of PP because I actually use regular attacks.

[Reiichi]

Weapons are situational. Relying on only one in all circumstances is inefficient. Likewise the same can be said about elements. They are situational, but relying on only one (neutral) is inefficient.

As it's been said, having 2 weapons of different elements almost guarantees that you will do 100% damage. If there's a fire monster, don't use a fire weapon. Anything else will do. To be extra safe, have 3 weapons. If fire and ice monsters spawn together, use a neutral element like dark (which just might be useful for the boss!) and attack everything at 100% damage.

Having more weapons eats up more storage yes, but it also allows you to spam your PA more. This can be good or bad depending on the weapon and the PA. Please do not spam single saber PA's to scatter monsters all over unless they are large monsters. Say you had one weapon for each element.

1 weapon will do bonus damage
1 weapon will do decreased damage
4 weapons will do normal 100% damage

6 weapons = 6x the PA spammage.

PA will out damage, flinch, knockback, and crowdcontrol more than your normal attacks.


Now what about price?
The advantage of elemental weapons is that you don't necessarily need the top of the line weapon unless you are severely hurting in ATA. C weapons are cheaper to make, cheaper/easier to grind, and with an elemental bonus very likely do more damage than a +1 5* non-elemental. You could buy a whole set of elemental 3* weapons to grind for the price of a 5* non-elemental. Or make them yourself, and with a decent success rate (75%+).

Spamming PA's is more fun, and colorful weapons are nice to look at. Seeing yourself do higher damage is another plus. The only real drawback with elemental weapons is storage, and that would be maybe 5 slots on average. So you'll have to remember to dump your [B] dimate boards at the NPC between runs.