Ever seen Kramer angry?

[Shadowpawn]

It ain't pretty. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T7uKvpzVXI) To think he's trying to apologize now after what he said. He deliberately did that to shock and offend and had the mentality of a racist when he said those things (one of first things that should be noted is that he said "we" meaning he had already categorized himself into a racial group.)

Being angry is one thing, but to spout racial tirades with the intent to mock is another.

[Moo2u]

For what it's worth he appologied on the Late Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UR4sysYE3A). Seeing Jerry support him really makes me feel like he didn't mean the things he said. I mean, Jerry's worked with all kinda of people from all nationalities, and he's very openly talks about this kind of thing, so if he's supposing his friend for over 10 years, I'll believe him. I mean it was hatefull what Michael Richards said, and uncalled for, and sadly, what little career Michael Richards had will disappear after this, but he was acting big on stage for the crowd being "extreem" as he is, and on the Late Show he's obviously very torn up.

The hekler is the comic's #1 enemy, and he dealed with it in the worst possible way. He not allowed to perform at that club again, and I doubt at many other clubs.

If you think he's acting on the Late Show, and still want to call him a racist, that's fine, but the man can't do sirious acting; he's all comedy. I believe his appology is sincear.

[ABDUR101]

Honestly, hecklers are something you have to get used to if you're performing infront of a live audience, however, you either ignore them, or you add them into the 'act' and turn what they're saying back on them. Generally if you make a subtle wise-crack about them, and make the gesture in their direction(acknowledge where they are at in the crowd), everyone else gets a laugh and if it's on tape, you get a chuckle out of it too without having to really hear what the hecklers were saying.

In this scenario though, I think he was going way out there to make a point. In there, from what I saw, he was making a point, it's not a right to sit in a club and enjoy a show, and if you're the kind of sleeze that goes there just to be a dickhead, then you should be called out on it. I don't think he meant it as a racial slur, but as a wake-up call, like hey, asshole, respect where you are and who you're with, because it wasn't too long ago that this would have happened to you.

I still like Michael Richards, honestly I was surprised that he exploded and lost his cool, and I was really expecting him to roll with it and come out grinning ear to ear with a punch line. And in the end, I still laughed at what happened. Even if he were screaming and using a derogatory homosexual slur, I'd have laughed, just because the heckler was still being called out on it.

The thing is, the black people in the crowd, and pretty much everyone else, was like "oooo he said the N word". Are we in kindergarten? So what? It's not like he was saying "ok all the black people get out, you're all *blah blah* " He was calling one guy out, and the way he used the term is how the term gets used here. The "N" word is a put-down to anyone and everyone, if you're being an ass, being ignorant and rude and out of line, then you get the "N-bomb".

So when he says "Throw his ass out, he's a *blah*", thats what he's getting at. He's some twit who came into the club, not even intending to sit down and enjoy the show for what it is, he came in, wanted to be an ass to show off to whoever he was with, and the little twit got called on it infront of everyone. Even if Michael had put him down in an entirely different way, without the N-word, he'd have prolly flipped out and kept being disruptive.

[Shadowpawn]

I'm not saying he's a racist for saying the word Nigger but the way he delivered it was racist. He could have did any number of things to get back at the heckler (i.e. make fun of his clothes, social status....whatever.)

But the fact that the first thing that was one his mind to get revenge on him was to make fun of this race makes me wonder what mindset he's really in. It's not a normal thing to call someone out based on their race for whatever reason. As you can see the heckler didn't resort to racial slurs until after he himself was assaulted with one, he was just calling Richards not funny.

What Richards did thought wasn't him calling out the heckler but looking for a mode of power. It was his bizarre way of saying "Hey look, I'm on the stage here buddy, I'm the one people came to see and you're some twit paid to be here." He wanted to debase this guy by calling out something that really can't be helped or changed. I guess because I'm black I have to be grateful that I'm here now and not born 50 years ago when lynching a man and taking a place next to his corse was cool? Forgive me, I guess I'll just throw out slave revolts, economic factors, abolitionist, civil rights movements and protests out the window because it was done on the white man's whim. *bows and kisses Teddy Roosevelt's boots.*

Give me a break, that's like Germans addressing Jews living in Germany "Hey, you best give respect boi or seventy years ago we would have had you're asses gassed and raped your women!" Or let's take a more recent simile: It's like Osama making a tape to address Americans "You better take me seriously or I'll send more planes to bomb your asses!" (Oh wait, he DID do that...didn't he?) It the heckler was that much of a problem they could easily get security to get the guy out, it's not Richards job to deal with hecklers.

Again I'm not calling him a racist but they fact of the matter is he was in a racist mindset when he said it. He assumed that the heckler looked at him as "the man" and he got this assumption that he should play off that stereotype. It was a prejudge move on his part, on that may have screwed him over for a while. As for his apology, I even think he's being sincere.

The AP reports that he was allowed on the night following the incident because he said he was going to apology on stage. He didn't, so now with him banned from the Laugh club until he makes a public apology and this fiasco hovering over his career like a black cloud he figured he might as well apologize for his done or else he doesn't eat.

[ABDUR101]

Why does it always turn to some big race issue? So what, he used the N-word. He's not trying to put down black society, I doubt we'll see him at the next KKK or Aryan Brotherhood meeting. It was a slip of the tongue and bad judgement.

"Racist mindset", you're still calling him a racist. There is no such thing as 'racist mindset', you're either a racist, or you're not.

I get called all kinds of white derogatory names, and often get labelled a "jew", not to mention sexual orientation slurs and, everything else, funny enough even the N-bomb. The truth of the matter is, if you're getting actively offended and thrown off-center all the time by these words, you need a thicker skin and need to get a grip. Everyone needs to learn how to laugh it off by now, whether the words are said out of hate or out of ribbing by friends.

After all, laughter, is the best medicine.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2006-11-22 11:27, Shadowpawn wrote:
It the heckler was that much of a problem they could easily get security to get the guy out, it's not Richards job to deal with hecklers.


Actually, it is Richards' job to deal with the hecklers. When a heckler makes himself known, it's the comedian's call on whether or not the offender gets thrown out. He can either try to say something to shut him up, or he can have security grab him and drag him off.

There is a movement that's thus far failed to be popular, to disengage the meaning from this "N-word" of which we speak; and with good reason, I think. It's an offensive word, but no one really understands why, at this point. Let's look at the facts on it:


It refers most particularly to a black slave, a group of American citizens that were looked down upon more than any other in American history.
Used by in racist remarks, whereupon it comes across as a suggestion that the target is of a lower social class than any other; possibly also suggesting that the target should be a slave.
Used by some black people, especially young males, to vulgarly express brotherhood to eachother.
Used by some other black people to differenciate between black people who have made something of themselves from those who've only served to strengthen negative stereotypes.


I figure that if it is to remain an offensive word, then that last meaning should be adopted; let it be a reminder that there are plenty of idiots out there that are spoiling it for everyone.

Personally, as a white person myself, I'm getting tired of not being able to randomly start a conversation with a black man on the street, even for something so simple as to ask for directions, without worrying about whether or not he's going to get the false impression that I'm a racist. People jump to that word way too easily. Everyone's just, "He hates black people!" or "He hates Jews!" or "He's racist towards illegal immigrants from Mexico!" I'm thinking, "Dude, just shut up." I'm tired of anyone giving a shit about what a person's stance on another's skin color and heritage is. This needs to be an issue that we stop concerning ourselves with.

[Zelutos]

He said he tried to "Jujitsu" it >_>

[Rion772]

On 2006-11-22 11:27, Shadowpawn wrote:
I'm not saying he's a racist for saying the word Nigger but the way he delivered it was racist. He could have did any number of things to get back at the heckler (i.e. make fun of his clothes, social status....whatever.)



No. Maybe you don't get it. Using the "N" word in anyway is racist. I don't care how you use it, it is a deragatory (sp? I'm retarded, I know) term. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of what you wrote. But any use of it is racist. Even if you call a white person a... "N" it's still racist and insulting. Seriously.

Next. No, you are not either racist or not racist. Everyone, deep down is racist in some way. Only a very very miniscule number in our american population is actually 100% non-racist. I don't care if you say "NO! YOU LIE! I'M NOT RACIST!" well I say bullshit! Just because you think you aren't racist doesn't mean you aren't. Nearly everyone is racist in one way or another and in one degree or another. Honestly, I will admit it, I am somewhat racist. I don't use the deragatory terms but I do stereotype (racially, obviously, this IS what we're talking about) sometimes.

But whatever, I have african-american, korean, korean-american, japanese, spanish, italian and french friends. They know sometimes I joke around about their race, they do the same to me, we all joke about it with eachother and laugh. It's never serious, always just meant for humor. Of course, sometimes we let things slip out (like Kramer.) But just because one famous person says it why the hell should it be so apalling (sp?). If you walk into the middle of time-square and scream the N-word everyone will probably look at you funny, and you just walk away (if you don't get shot, haha). If someone says it on t.v. it's such a big deal though.

So, just because he makes a lot of money, and says a vulgar, racist term he's a bad guy? No. If you think that well, have fun being a judgemental douche. Honestly, I think if people judge someone as bad or racist, etc or whatever for making one stupid slip up, we need to judge ourselves first. We're just looking to point fingers at people and start labeling them and insulting them because we're insecure about ourselves. That's how I've always felt about things like that. If you look at someone, poke and prod at all of their flaws, judge them by that and insult or think bad things of them (verbally and mentally) you are really just insecure about yourself.

So what, he said one bad word, doesn't make him a racist or bad guy. Everyone has said, typed, thought, or written the N-word atleast once in their life (... In general, I'm not talking about children here.) We just need to shut the hell up about it and move on. As all (I'd hope...) of us know Carlos Mencia has his own show... The Mind of Mencia. All of his jokes are racist and yet people laugh at his jokes, A LOT. No one really cares that he says it. But if someone like Kramer says it... It's a big deal. Now, ending on this note; America needs to stop judging people so critically. Stop making a big deal that some guy says the N-word, grow the fuck up. Seriously.

[ABDUR101]

Rion, the end point you're making is good, but you really contradicted yourself afew times there buddy. You start off strong against using the "N" word and that if you use it, it's racist and insulting, then you go into how you and your friends make fun of each other's races, and then at the end you say using the "N" word is no big deal.

Overall, the world needs a nice strong cup of Shut the Fuck Up. It's a word, and if you're thrown off center over a word, maybe you're insecure about yourself enough to let that word really mean something. It's one thing to keep things PG-13 when it's necessary, but come on, when is life PG-13 anymore?

[Shadowpawn]

On 2006-11-22 15:16, ABDUR101 wrote:
Why does it always turn to some big race issue? So what, he used the N-word. He's not trying to put down black society, I doubt we'll see him at the next KKK or Aryan Brotherhood meeting. It was a slip of the tongue and bad judgement.

"Racist mindset", you're still calling him a racist. There is no such thing as 'racist mindset', you're either a racist, or you're not.

I get called all kinds of white derogatory names, and often get labelled a "jew", not to mention sexual orientation slurs and, everything else, funny enough even the N-bomb. The truth of the matter is, if you're getting actively offended and thrown off-center all the time by these words, you need a thicker skin and need to get a grip. Everyone needs to learn how to laugh it off by now, whether the words are said out of hate or out of ribbing by friends.

After all, laughter, is the best medicine.



You know it's not even the word that's offending me or other people I think. It's the way eh started his rant, "50 years ago...blah blah...upside down w/pitchfork." Wait wait wait, run that by me again boss what would happen, did you just say wii?

And yes by racist mindset I am calling him a racist, just at that point in time. It's not as simple as either or, it's possible to indeed feel various racial overtones without in fact being a racist. It depends on how you grow up and the stereotypes that you are exposed to. You may think, oh let's say, all Asians are good at math.

Now you may think that because you were brought up with that idea in your head. You don't know any better because that's the way you were raised. It's a prejudice mode of mind, but that doesn't make that person a bigot, just ignorant.


On 2006-11-22 15:17, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

On 2006-11-22 11:27, Shadowpawn wrote:
It the heckler was that much of a problem they could easily get security to get the guy out, it's not Richards job to deal with hecklers.


Actually, it is Richards' job to deal with the hecklers. When a heckler makes himself known, it's the comedian's call on whether or not the offender gets thrown out. He can either try to say something to shut him up, or he can have security grab him and drag him off.

There is a movement that's thus far failed to be popular, to disengage the meaning from this "N-word" of which we speak; and with good reason, I think. It's an offensive word, but no one really understands why, at this point. Let's look at the facts on it:


It refers most particularly to a black slave, a group of American citizens that were looked down upon more than any other in American history.
Used by in racist remarks, whereupon it comes across as a suggestion that the target is of a lower social class than any other; possibly also suggesting that the target should be a slave.
Used by some black people, especially young males, to vulgarly express brotherhood to eachother.
Used by some other black people to differenciate between black people who have made something of themselves from those who've only served to strengthen negative stereotypes.


I figure that if it is to remain an offensive word, then that last meaning should be adopted; let it be a reminder that there are plenty of idiots out there that are spoiling it for everyone.

Personally, as a white person myself, I'm getting tired of not being able to randomly start a conversation with a black man on the street, even for something so simple as to ask for directions, without worrying about whether or not he's going to get the false impression that I'm a racist. People jump to that word way too easily. Everyone's just, "He hates black people!" or "He hates Jews!" or "He's racist towards illegal immigrants from Mexico!" I'm thinking, "Dude, just shut up." I'm tired of anyone giving a shit about what a person's stance on another's skin color and heritage is. This needs to be an issue that we stop concerning ourselves with.



It shouldn't be primary Richard's job to deal with the heckler, that's the point I was trying to get across.

As for the use of the word Nigger, it reason why it's so offensive because...well the first two reasons you
stated. That's kinda sad because of people were educated on the proper use of the word Nigger (which is used to describe a person with is ignorant (ignorant as in "without knowledge of")) the word itself would become less severe. However, there really isn't much of a reason to use that word for either application because there are other ways of saying and expressing that same idea out there.

And o.O @ that last bit there Meira. I don't think most black people (like myself) would assume ANYTHING about you because your skin color. You do have a good point there at the end, this is something that we should stop concerning ourselves with. However we shouldn't be as open and free this type of subject where we're at the point that we could make jokes about the holocaust and 9/11 as icebreakers to conversations. There are just some limits to what you can say and how you can say it.


On 2006-11-22 20:40, Rion772 wrote:

On 2006-11-22 11:27, Shadowpawn wrote:
I'm not saying he's a racist for saying the word Nigger but the way he delivered it was racist. He could have did any number of things to get back at the heckler (i.e. make fun of his clothes, social status....whatever.)




No. Maybe you don't get it. Using the "N" word in anyway is racist. I don't care how you use it, it is a deragatory (sp? I'm retarded, I know) term. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of what you wrote. But any use of it is racist. Even if you call a white person a... "N" it's still racist and insulting. Seriously.




I think you misunderstood me, the part in the video that deemed a racial issue wasn't the part where he said Nigger, it was the whole pitchfork rant in the beginning. There really wasn't a need to go there, at all. I think we all know the word Nigger is a racial slur and hot topic...one this topic has dragged on since the second post. The issue is not even about that word, its' about his ENTIRE rant and how he delivered it and his overtone.

[Daikarin]

I don't know exactly the details of what happened, but he's apparently feeling shit over this. Someone catches him slipping a word he shouldn't have said, and all hell breaks lose, focusing on him, on what he said. The guy is sorry. The guy tried talking with them. He's having a hard time. You, who hate the guts of the man who used the 'N' word without wanting to. What can he do to make you forget it? Death penalty? For crying out loud.

Haven't we all said stuff we regret? Stuff that offended people? You catch a guy on a bad day, even saying some stuff that yes, are not justifiable. But what do you want? Beat the guy up? Call him the white equivalent? What more can the guy do, that he hasn't already done?

"Let he who hath never sinneth, throw the first stone."

(Or something)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Daikarin on 2006-11-23 03:21 ]</font>

[Dangerous55]

I am not defending what he did but nobody said a word about the black guy calling him a "cracker", and "white boy". I don't get it? If it was the other way around and the black guy said cracker first then Richards called him a nigger, the reaction would be the same and that is bullshit.

If blacks can use it so can everyone else, if not, guess what that is...

[Shadowpawn]

On 2006-11-23 11:23, Dangerous55 wrote:
I am not defending what he did but nobody said a word about the black guy calling him a "cracker", and "white boy". I don't get it? If it was the other way around and the black guy said cracker first then Richards called him a nigger, the reaction would be the same and that is bullshit.

If blacks can use it so can everyone else, if not, guess what that is...







Actually, the heckler only called him a cracker and white boy only after the fact that he was called a nigger. Of course no one is going to say anything about that because it's a natural reaction to try and injury someone in the same matter. Also it's not a matter of "blacks can use it so can everyone else or else that's a double standard! olololo111!" that's really not the case here. It's the way the word was used during his rant.


On 2006-11-23 03:20, Daikarin wrote:
I don't know exactly the details of what happened, but he's apparently feeling shit over this. Someone catches him slipping a word he shouldn't have said, and all hell breaks lose, focusing on him, on what he said. The guy is sorry. The guy tried talking with them. He's having a hard time. What can he do to make you forget it? Death penalty? For crying out loud.

Haven't we all said stuff we regret? Stuff that offended people? You catch a guy on a bad day, even saying some stuff that yes, are not justifiable. But what do you want? Beat the guy up? Call him the white equivalent? What more can the guy do, that he hasn't already done?

"Let he who hath never sinneth, throw the first stone."

(Or something)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Daikarin on 2006-11-23 03:21 ]</font>


Meh, I just isn't a point in apologizing now. What's done is done.


You, who hate the guts of the man who used the 'N' word without wanting to.

olo, That's the exact manner Arcadia from SMT:N speaks. >_>

[Dangerous55]

On 2006-11-23 11:43, Shadowpawn wrote:
Actually, the heckler only called him a cracker and white boy only after the fact that he was called a nigger. Of course no one is going to say anything about that because it's a natural reaction to try and injury someone in the same matter. Also it's not a matter of "blacks can use it so can everyone else or else that's a double standard! olololo111!" that's really not the case here. It's the way the word was used during his rant.






Where did I say "ololololol", what am I a fucking dickbag?

The point I was making, and what is true, is that if they called him a cracker first and he said nigger he still would be boiling in shit.