Beast Wartecher: Viable or just plain stupid?

[BlessedRavenX]

Hello,

I was wondering if I should go Wartecher with my beast. I feel that combination would be strong, but im having second thoughts and I need a second opinion. So far this is my pallette plan for this unique combination(please note that all of this was done in extra mode):

Twin Daggers
?/Dagger
?/Wand(Resta/Giresta)
?/Wand(Jellen/Zalure)
?/Wand(Rabarta/Gibarta)
?/Wand(Shifta/Deband)


Back up palette:
Twin Daggers
?/Dagger
?/Wand(Resta/Giresta)
?/Wand(Megiverse/Megistar)
?/Wand(Jellen/Zalure)
?/Wand(Nosmegid/Ramegid)

The question marks are there because I dont know if I should put a handgun or a card there. Also, I managed to do some wierd glitch involving Nosmegid. I pretty much pallete switched into my daggers while the ball was still out there, i could still do my dagger comboes, but I couldnt do my PA's unless I released triangle(I set Nosmegid on Triangle). Keep in mind that I only did this three times so far, and you have to be very quick on the ball to do so.

[-Crokar-]

i dont about anyone else but i beleive wartecher is a great class. really great if your soloing. have the buffs that raise your stats up. i would of been a wartecher but i like double sabers so im going figunner



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Crokar- on 2006-11-28 10:05 ]</font>

[Cross]

I think your biggest problem when trying to do Beast Wartechter is that Wartechters have horrible ATA; it's seriously only better than Fortechters, who don't need ATA in the first place. Coupled with a Beast's naturally horrible ATA, and that you're probably going to be trying to melee a lot, I can imagine getting a lot of frustrating 0s whenever you attack anything remotely appropriate for your level.

If the ATA isn't an issue, you should do relatively okay with it.

[-Crokar-]

isnt there the spell that raises ata. and you could always use an arm unit to raise ata

[Freedom]

if u do wartecher beast solo...most likely leo and ur PM will do the bulk of the dmg and u'll be a healbot, so i dont really see the big problem in terms of ATA o.O

[panzer_unit]

A beast's preferred job is ForteFighter, right? I'm sure the game works out okay for those guys. WarTechers aren't a whole lot less accurate than ForteFighters... it's like 80% vs 100% for ATA... and WarTechers can make up for anything they seriously can't hit by using attack spells, or bows w/o linked skills, etc.

[AlphaMinotaux]

beast wartecher is viable and works. Just because it isnt the BEST race/job combo doesnt mean you wont be great at it.

[-Shimarisu-]

Ah, I think you'll be needing Tenora double daggers.

Oh yeah, trust me on that.

Your buffs are sure gonna make up for your ATA loss too, ESPECIALLY on solo, and ESPECIALLY if you already play naturally like a Beast, as Leo would say "From behind!"

EVP is 0% from behind.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-11-28 17:30 ]</font>

[McFresh_Bot]

I hope it's viable, i'll be facing a similiar situation with my cast wartecher

[BigKevSexyMan]

Low TP doesn't mean much if you just plan on buffing. But if you really want to enjoy the Wartecher class you'll need fairly decent TP. Head units outta help out a lot, especially if you're going cast.

[Magician]

That's what I intend to be, should be fine.

Twin Dagger x3
Handgun/Dagger
Handgun/Wand (Resta, Reverser) with Giresta on backup
Handgun/Wand (Shifta, Deband)

Forget offensive techs, leave that to fortechers, and welcome to healbot land.

[EphekZ]

It'll be fine, but Really just grab two wands.

Resta/reverser(way more important than giresta as you can just use moons)
jellen/zalure/shifta/deband wand. Shifta and deband you only need to use sometimes. while J/Z you need for enemies. So you could do one thing: have a s/d wand in equip, but not added to pallet, or just switch techs real quick use s/d then switch back.

Then you can use more melee weps or perhaps a BOW =)

edit: taking another look at your wand techs. DO NOT use dmg techs. The point of wartecher isnt to do dmg with your techs, it's to support yourself and others when there isnt another Fortetecher.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkgunner on 2006-11-30 10:51 ]</font>

[AngelLight]

Actually go with Nozu techs when you're soloing as a Beast Wartecher and are using npcs. I like your dark knight build personally. That coupled with judicious use of buffs and debuffs and you'll be on the road to success. Just keep in mind you'll need some beefy stats to really make megiverse work for you. Still, Leeching is a sound stratagy for someone who will be meleeing as well.

edit: Obviously have resta as well but keep Giresta to cover your megistar hp drain. keep reverser on backup and ready to go. Above all keep your techs properly leveled.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AngelLight on 2006-11-30 11:11 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

Beast wartecher is fine, here's why. Well, first off, look at the vast difference in stats in these races, at level 50, level 1 of wartecher. All male, female will be just a little different.

Human: 1140/307/111/361/71/285/85
Beast: 1384/350/91/213/74/254/60
Newman: 1069/267/120/438/65/308/136

where stats= HP/ATP/ATA/TP/DFP/EVP/MST

Now just because a beast has HALF the TP at level 1 wartecher does not mean they get HALF the tech damage. You need to consider your units and equippable wands. A female beast wartecher at level 40 can equip very respectable grinded GRM 5*s. I'm not including cast in this argument because they get seriously gimped in this respect, not being able to equip 5*s til much later.

You need to GRIND your wands. Grinded up 5 ang 6*s are better than none grinded A rank 7*. Not many people will grind 7* far. So you already have access to very respectable weapons. With this additional damage, you can hit for 2/3rds the tech damage of a newman wartecher or more. And bear in mind you'll only be using offensive tech on melee resistant enemies.

Then you have dark tevhs. Dark techs do more damage depending on your remaining HP. Now look at that chart. You're leagues ahead of newman there.

Now the OTHER reason I think only human and beast wartechers are viable is ATP. Newman ATP is much lower. Of course you can add to this with grinds and units, and make it RESPECTABLE AND USEFUL, but their tech damage is still going to outstrip it, meaning I'd be thinking "Why am I wartecher, and not Forte?" The only monsters worth hitting with melee on a newman wartecher would be tech resist monsters.

THERE ARE FAR LESS TECH RESISTANT MONSTERS THAN MELEE RESISTANT.

Now think of your buffs. You have respectable ATP. It's 75% of base at lvl 1 of the job class, compared to 110% at lvl 1 of Fortefighter. So it's 2/3rds as good, at BASE. Now add on weapon ATP. Suddenly it gets better than 2/3rds as good. Now add on buffs. Suddenly you're a LOT more useful in solo and more useful in parties if the party lacks a force. So not only is this not a mediocre choice for a beast, it's a very GOOD choice.

ATA wise, every wartecher is gimped as all get out. Every wartecher of any race is not going to hit in S rank without emplying evasive tactics. With your incredibly high evasion, getting in the fray and skirting round monsters to get behind the back where THEIR EVP becomes zero is no big issue. With every race suffering in the ATA department as Wartecher, you MAY AS WELL be a beast, if you're used to attacking "From behind!"

So:

Unlike cast, low beast TP is high ENOUGH to equip good wands fairly early.
Unlike newman, their ATP is useful over their TP in MOST scenarios.
Their buffs have equal effects to the above.

Human is another good choice, but I could argue this all day, I honestly believe that if you're going wartecher:

Human=beast>cast>newman.

The extra ATA of cast just does not make up enough difference to be worth it if you're still skirting about to hit shit in S rank. Trust me.

And newmen will find themselves resorting to tech a lot, so much so that IMO they should go forte.

Just my opinion, but I have a beast wartecher on JP.

[Gamemako]

You did calculate in the race/class combo bonus, right? Humans and newmans get slight stat bonuses for Wartecher. Beast only gets bonus for fortefighter.

And seriously, you should be attacking from behind by now anyway, since beasts suck at ATA. Also, 80% of the newman's natural ATA bonus leaves them pretty decently off for wartecher (better off than a beast fortefighter for accuracy, you know!). And beasts also have the lowest EVP and thus end up with the smallest boon from the wartecher's bonus.

Also, shima, don't mistake the newman wartecher's versatility for a weakness. He may do less damage per attack, but he also doesn't have completely useless techs like a beast wartecher. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Come join me and my newman wartercher when expert classes appear. I will enjoy proving you wrong. <3

[-Shimarisu-]

Yep, the race bonus is added. And once again, beast wartechers techs are not useless.

Half newman's at base. Yet still enough to equip powerful wands. So you can add on that bonus.

Let's say you used my +4 W'gacan. It's +400 TP. So that beast wartecher's TP is now 613, and yours is 838. In other words, the beast's wartecher's techs do 3/4 your damage. If you're telling me that's a huge difference, you're very wrong when you factor in the dark techs which we'll be getting later, and also the fact that beasts are much more powerful ATP wise.

You really ARE wrong, because you haven't put it into practice yet. I have.

[Gamemako]

You have a newman wartecher? Really now!

And newman wartechers do 5/6 of the melee damage of beast wartechers. So what does this prove now?

The fact that people get through live completely oblivious to it is proof enough that experience is not knowledge.

[-Shimarisu-]

No but I have played with a lot of newman wartechers and they do not do near the damage I do.

A lot of people picked it over beast cause of the perceived balance. But gimped ATP is a lot more noticable than gimped TP.

The ATP bonus on daggers is low. The TP bonus on wands is much higher. Meaning the gap is closed a lot better than with ATP based weapons.

Human really is a better choice than newman, for the balance factor. Beast is a good choice for a DIFFERENT way to play.

Also you forgot the bonus of having a power nanoblast coupled with high defense and evade.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-11-30 20:59 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

If you grind a daga ripa, you're looking at +320 or more ATP.

Twin daggers is a different story: aldaga ripas have 150 ATP. That point is yours, feel free to take it and run.

//EDIT: And to use your logic against you: "Gee, I'm doing so much damage with this nanoblast, I might as well be a fortefighter."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gamemako on 2006-11-30 21:07 ]</font>

[MaximusLight]

You know I think this is a prefectly viable idea.
A beast hunter would just have more base focus on the hunter aspect and only slightly below (compair to casts and humans) in the force part. Since Wartecher is the opposite focus, it should balance out very nicely

[-Shimarisu-]

Daga ripa grinded to +10=+345 atp.
aldaga ripa=+201 atp.
+10 W'gacan=+505 TP

Nanoblast=not your entire focus of attack, is it?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-11-30 21:16 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

Anything is possible in PSU. That's part of the game -- be what you want.

Another thing, shima -- you can't use bows or crea weapons. RAWR. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

//EDIT: Techs aren't your focus of attack either unless you're a fortetecher. Lawl.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gamemako on 2006-11-30 21:21 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Gamemako, I think the stat bonuses may apply whenever the job levels up, mistake me if I'm wrong. I do hope that a Newman Wartecher is a viable option though, thats what I'm going for with my male newman. I really like the HUnewearl and I always wanted to play a HUnewm, so I thought that this was the best way to go. Wartechers wouldn't die in one hit like Fortechers, so I think I might wanna give it a shot.

[Gamemako]

Shiro, the stat bonuses are supposedly added directly to the class modifier. For example, a base WT 10 is 130% HP, while a newman or human gets a 133.8% modifier. If it were added 10 times, that would be insanely unbalanced (168% HP? A beast Figunner would run scared at that newman's beastly HP!). Obviously that's not going to be the case.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

oh, i see, thanks. anyway, I'm hoping you're right about Newman Wartechers not being a bad idea.