Hunters playing the Ranger?

[Munki]

Okay, maybe I am the only one that has noticed this, or maybe I am just unlucky enough to play with this style of player.

I seem to run into hunters that use a handgun as their main weapon all the time. They may occaisionally switch to a melee weapon, but they use a gun primarily. The only reason I have a beef with this, is I play a FOnewearl. Too many times do I find myself running away from Boomas / Sharks and so forth and rarely get to cast spells. I guess I am just bitter since I rarely find people that are willing to tank.

I don't expect all this extra 'in the line of fire' work to go unrewarded. As a Force, I make sure it is my buisness to make sure that people are healed as soon as they get hurt bad, and revived if they die. If somebody drops, I wade into whatever mess they were in to try and get them back alive as quick as possible. I also try and keep people buffed up with Shifta / Deband. So it's not like I am asking warriors to tank and take all the pain while I reap benefits.

Part of this probably comes from the item hogging though. People aren't as willing to tank, as they are afraid said force is gonna run around and steal items while they fight. Sigh. n00bs seem to ruin it for everybody.

Anyway, if you ever see me online (ChibiMunki), be assured that I will back you up, and won't go stealing items behind your back. As long as we can work as a team!

[TeamPhalanx]

I do apologize. When we're out of our league (say lv 80 and in ultimate mode) we're not too confident and rely on guns. We also tend to turn all yellow when up against anything that can use megid.

If there's only one HUnter on a team, and he/she is at a good level and is still using a gun weapon that's pretty low...

Most of the time you should see a HUnter switch to a sword/partisan when need be... If it doesn't happen, I do hope you have a RAnger on the team with a shotgun.

[FluxGryphon]

I play offline in multiplayer with a friend, and when we play together I tend to tank rather than use a gun. Our current team is a HUmar and a RAmar and since he's got the long-range fire power, I smash the crowds with sabers and partisans, using the occasional knife for single-smashing. But when I play alone, I use my guns because it's more efficient most of the time.

It seems to me that you haven't had the luck of finding players that understand team tactics. PSO is a wonderful game in that you have an active role in evasion and movement. If you're going to survive, you're going to have to be smart. This makes for a variety of strategies that mainly depend upon the situation. I enjoy herding a bunch of sharks, boomas, or dimenians and smashing them all down with a powerful partisan. I also like defending my comrade(s) and healing them when they suddenly have less than half HP. It's great for the ranger to paralyze guys with a varista (or whatever rare rifle he has now) and send me in to finish the buggers off. After all, to get any amount of XP all you have to do is hit the beast once. Whoever gets the kill gets a little more, but that doesn't matter as much when you trade off, or one player or the other is behind in XP.

I don't ever condone item-hogging, but unfortunately it is an easy practice. Ideally, when you're playing with people you don't know that well, the rules about money and item-divison would be made clear beforehand. But some people are just selfish idiots. While I haven't played online with PSO, I have with other games (e.g. Diablo II, Neverwinter Nights), and it is invaluable to find honorable people to play with. It is an unfortunate fact of online gaming that there are stupid people out there. (Hell, that's a fact of the internet and the world in general.) The task is to figure out how to deal with them.

[M_BlackHawk]

When I play, I try to stay with melee weapons. My favorites are partisans. However, against De Rol Le, or Dark Falz, I do use either a handgun or mechs (God, I hate mechs..too low range and bad atk.)

If you see a HUnewearl named Lara, that's probably me. I'll be glad to hit a game or 2 with ya..but I'm only lvl 20 at this point in time.

later

M_BlackHawk

[Kent]

I don't know about Episodes 1 & 2, but in the Dreamcast versions, Hunters did better with handguns and mechguns than rangers because of their far superior ATP.

With my HUmar, I'd always bring along a Varista as a sidearm in case I needed to make a ranged attack (like hitting Falz's 2nd and 3rd forms on Hard and V. Hard, or shooting down traps or Canadines).

[z3r0-]

I am I HUmar that used a gun. It was a draw auto gun +12. Used it from the caves to dark falz that switched for a saber untill I got my booma claw than flowens and now MUSASHI! Well anyway using a gun with hunters is cool because you do alot more damage that moronic rangers but its kinda panzyish because you have the most health and you should help. Hunters should only use guns when they have to, such as agains falzes 3rd form. (I used musashi but a good gun is better) Hunters have the highest HP, DEF, and EVASION (forgot abreviation(sp?)) and also get the most damaging weapons. Thereforth they are tanks and shouldent use guns unless they have to. Anyway a hunter weapon will always be better than a gun of eaqual or slight higher strength.

[TeamPhalanx]

RAcast/RAcaseal have the most HP...

[z3r0-]

wtf? A gun user has more HP than a tank?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: z3r0- on 2002-11-22 20:27 ]</font>

[TeamPhalanx]

Well... A RAcast is pretty much a tank. I mean, look at him - He's a freakin' huge metal bot that uses guns.

[faceless]

if HUnters weren't supposed to use handguns, they wouldn't be able to equip them...

[DirewolfX]

I think guns are more efficient for Hunters in the mid-levels, until they start getting better Partisans and Swords... and learning how to use them.

My HUnewearl always keeps a variety of weapons on her depending on the situation: Partisan for crowds of Boomas/Sharks/Dimenians; Slicer for Dragon, Vol Opt (form 2), Gilchics/Dubchics, Canadines (with the red one), and occasionally an ordinary crowd; Handgun for Canadines (lone), Dubchic controllers, De Rol Le, Vol Opt (form 1), Dark Falz (spikes, form 1 and form 3), and whenever I feel like shooting something at range; High-damage single target weapon for Dragon (when head is down), De Rol Le (when head is on raft), Falz (form 2) and any of the various bigger, non-swarming monsters.

[Brundidge]

I'll admit I use a fill raygun sometimes for those special occassions but mainly I have a yamato/vyaja/rappy fan in my inventory cuz I like to role play my character class of the HUcaseal. Plus I feel more confident using slicers now for me to move on from using handguns.

[Ian D]

I'm the opposite, I'm either using my Crush Bullet or charging the opposition with a Partisan.

(As a RAmar.)

[ABDUR101]

hmmmm, option of being surrounded by enemies that can deal massive damage and knock you off your feet, with very high chance of missing them atleast once in your combo attack, thus causing you to be knocked down and surrounded again.

Option of using a Varista(or other nice handgun-type) and shooting the big nasties from afar as they follow you around the room.


Sorry, I'll take my HUcast with a Varista that draws the attention away from the other players. If you're rushing into a room and being targeted first, while the Hunter stands back and shoots from afar, then yeah, thats your fault. Hunters first, Rangers Second, Forces last.

Switch Rangers and Forces depending on how you play, you might want them in between for better coverage.

As long as they are using their hand-gun types to the best of their ability, and still drawing most of the enemies attention(which is the purpose of them "tanking" in the first place, to be targeted first while the other classes are back far enough away from the first wave of enemies), then they are doing their job perfectly.

Personally, some people I play with won't heal you properly. Numerous times I've had to heal myself while up close fighting because the forces were busy shooting foie at something.(In the middle of the fight, mind you, being surrounded by everything that spawns)

I'll take a Hunter that uses a handgun for safe distance than a Force that sits in the thick of battle not taking care of his/her role of support.

..and I'll take the handgun-type distance because online I can watch over everyone better. If we're in close, I'll use a nice multiple-hit weapon like a Dragon Slayer, if we're in an open area, I'll switch to a Varista.

It all depends on how people play the game. I think the Hunter is multi-purpose really, expecially the HUcast. Don a nice hand-gun type when needed(like taking out traps and enemies from afar) and a nice Hunter-type weapon for close-in attacks.

Just depends on the play style really. I'd rather see gun-toting Hunters than some other things. =)

[Alisha]

Hunters have the highest HP, DEF, and EVASION LOL............. NO!!!!!!!

racaseal has the highest dfp and ramarl has the highest evp and phalnax already covered the hp issue

[Etrigan]

Tactics schmactics. If someone paid for the game, the bba and the HL, they can play however they want to.

[Brundidge]

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif^
that pretty much sums it up and more understanding.
We pay to play and we play however we want.

[Maelkith]

humars and hunewerls can rely on techs to bring down mothmants, canadines ect. but android hunters have to cary a gun. any hucast or hucaseal that has played the mines has to learn to use guns quick. some find it efficient enough to stay a gunner.
my weapons carried are always a sword, pistol and mechgun. mechguns come in handy against hildebears and belras. pistols are really good for traps, dark gunners, nano dragons, dub switch and garanzs. best weapon for the job makes a good hunter- not dedicaton to melee weapons.

[Wewt]

On 2002-11-23 11:28, Etrigan wrote:
Tactics schmactics. If someone paid for the game, the bba and the HL, they can play however they want to.


I'd love to see you say that again when you do more of Challenge mode.

[EDarkness]

Heh, heh. This is a funny topic. What I find funny about the whole gun situation is that the damage from guns is determined by ATP. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. This means that Rangers on the whole are weaker with guns than Hunters. How the hell is that supposed to figure? Anyone who know anything about guns knows that just because you're the most beefiest guy on the planet, doesn't mean you do more damage per shot. Accuracy and bullet placement determines the amount of "damage" someone is gonna take. What's the point of making ATA so damned hard to raise if it doesn't affect the actual damage done? It's silly. I thought they fixed it in this version of the game (GameCube) but they haven't. Hunters are still better with guns than hunters. So what Hunters can't use Rifles and such. When a Ranger and a Hunter who are the same level use mechguns it's the Hunter who does more damage. Something is just not right about that.

Anyway, anyone can play however they like, but there is a serious balance issue that Sonic Team needs to address.


-EDarkness

[OwenHimura]

well im level 120 and i dont need a gun unless i fight the ob lily no need to use a gun when your a comfortable level.

[Sedric]

Androids need to carry gun anyway, and the reason has been stated above. And I remember reading someone's opinion in the past that since androids have limited healing items, they need to minimize taking damage, thus using guns often is necessary.

Actually, if you think about it, every class needs to carry the gun. Even the techs of HUmar and Hunny can be insufficient to do the long-range job. And for Forces, well.... they would normally have no use for it, unless they wanna save some TPs by finishing off dying enemies, or they found a good heart-series gun. (good way to refill TP occassionally)

But seriously, even so, HUs will generally do far better with their set of weapons than guns.... So unless that palyer has a really valid excuse for playing Ranger with a HU, (i.e. his/her current gun is far more powerful than his/her current melee weap) that person should play RA instead.

And for ATP affecting gun damage instead of ATA: well, PSO is sci-fi fantasy, not based on real stuffs. And ST can make it whatever they wish to make it as. So a big buff guy with gun will deal more damage than a professional marksman. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif But aren't you glad the big buff guy misses many more shots compared to the marksman???

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sedric on 2002-11-23 19:57 ]</font>

[Munki]

Hmmm...

I guess my original complaints are more around the people that are willing to just shoot at the pack of creatures chasing me around the room, as opposed to running up with a Partisan or Sword and really getting their attention.

If they did that, then I could turn around, get off a few spells, and before you know it, the Force and the Hunter have turned that pack of Boomas into finely ground Monster Meat (good with Heinz 57 I hear).

I agree that people can play however they want, as they are paying for it, but by the same token, I could be an item stealin punk, or a duper, or whatever. I did buy the game, right? I know that the other things I listed can detract from others enjoyment, but isn't playing online in a MULTIplayer game as a Lone wolf, with a "I don't care bout my team members one bit" type attitude detract from other's enjoyment as well? I say it does. I guess my point is people should be courteous and try and play as a team. I know there are 'bad' forces out there with some lame habits (trying to melee when they are out of their league, being item stealers, etc.) If I am gonna be the support member of the team (as that is my predescribed role as a Force), then I feel it is only fair to feel that the Hunter should be his role and get up and hack up the baddies and help to keep them off of the 'weaker' members of the team.

I agree and understand (I have a Hunter character as well after all) the necessity of using a hand gun at times (they rock for detonating your own traps http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif), I feel that making this your primary weapon while in a group is not exactly fair to the other players. I mean, as a Force, I can use a handgun to try and kill guys, so I can save on TP and meseta, as well. So what if I do piddly damage and I am not really contributing to the team at all. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, I didn't really wanna turn this into a whine session, sorry bout that. All I guess I was saying (originally) was that I noticed this a lot, and didn't know if this is a common tactic now, or if I just have had lots of bad luck.

lol, as a result of this (and the TANK thread) I have decided to make a RAcaseal tank now. Look for her online (name Fei Chi Yun).

[RellikTakahashi]

Why would they make Rangers with the Highest HP? Their just cowards who run from fights and shoot at distance. Hunters should have the highest seeing how they fight upclose.