Guide: Protranser class

[panzer_unit]

I'll try and keep this post up to date for info and advice on playing a PT.

Part 1: Introduction
The Protranser job grants access to the signature weaponry of ForteFighter and ForteGunner, along with Bows (thx 5 force ranks) and improved trap effectiveness. I like to think of it as a support-weapons version of FiGunner.

There's apparently no point to giving the character tremendous versatility and interesting gear without challenging them to use it all... Protrancers have below-average stats across the board and especially low ATP (2/3, give or take) compared to any other fighting class. If you want your character to mean more to the team than "that guy who blew our S rank" you will have to use your head and focus on getting the maximum effect out of everything you do.

Something I've noticed about rank progression in this job:
At starter ranks, you have HP comparable to a Force and the only high-rank weapon you'll be able to use will probably be a bow (e.g. Force's weapon).
At mid ranks, you have HP comparable to a Ranger and with your job ATA modifier maxxed your character can finally equip and use the full variety of heavy Ranger firepower with some authority.
Closing in on max rank, you finally have HP approaching a Hunter... and enough ATP to start using some of their heavywieght stuff.

People who don't play the class might need to forgive PT's for getting a little too excited when they're getting close to ranking up. Every rank makes a HUGE difference in what they can equip and the difficulty of missions they can get back into after starting game progression again almost from scratch.

Part 1A-2: updated playstyle notes
Coming back to the class after knocking off 10 ranks each on Fortefighter and Fortegunner, the most efficiently it seems to go as a Protranser is when you walk into fights as a support gunner, and once you've got your DOT's applied - usually by bow, handgun, maybe grenade - pull out a heavy melee weapon and play to the strengths of the statuses you're applying. Tight integration of traps, firearms, regular melee, and melee PA is required to come anywhere close to compensating for Protranser's poor deal on PP costs and regen.

Part 1B: Race Choice

Humans - Humans are "good" at everything, like over 9000. Great Protransers.
Seriously: Humans get a small stat boost as Protransers (as with all hybrid jobs)... they have nice EVP, giving them the best deal on defensive stats since the class offers good EVP from the start while DFP is progressing from "really low" to just "low". Humans will also get any given ranged weapon a rank or a few levels before Beasts, which is a competitive advantage early on. On the downside, humans are going to be behind for melee equipment progression. They still end up with 7* axes so at least the story has a happy ending.

Casts - Casts have the best progression for ATA and aren't bad for ATP. They're the first to see high-rank firearms, including lasers and the all-important grenade launcher. They should also meet requirements for melee weapons earlier than humans to make up for getting the most raw of deals on their defensive stats initially.

Beasts - Beasts are the first PT's to get their hands on an Axe, and probably more importantly they'll meet requirements for all melee weapons sooner than other races as they're progressing through ranks to start... which will also help offset any ATA problems they have. While they're trailing the pack for ranged weapon, even Beast PT's will get their hands on lasers and grenade launchers by the time class ATA maxes at rank 6.

Newmans - I want to be nicer, but I think newms would just be way better off as a GunTecher or ForteGunner, because they'll be even farther behind humans for the melee side of the Protranser job. Go for more ATP with the same weapons you would actually be using as a PT, and more elf-friendly defensive stats.

Part 2: Starting Off
This is about as far as my experience with the class goes... just combined suggestions / notes / wishlist. I got my character started on release day, so I was lv49 with max ranks in Hunter / Ranger and a good number of skills as high as they could be for basic classes. On the other hand, all our stats get knocked pretty flat by the steamroller that is Protrancer rank 1 so I assume things aren't TOO different when changing to the job with a lower-level character.

* spend time training with PT weapons (especially bow) as you're earning requirements. You will want as many usable skills as possible at lv11+. If you're going to go to 10 on hunter or ranger, try getting some to 20. You're going to need every advantage you can give yourself.
* spend the money to buy full stacks of every trap. Why not? You aren't going to be spending it on high-end weapons any time soon. Full stocks will give you some toys to mess around with and figure out which types are keepers, and meanwhile your team will be like "ooh protranser" when you light up Salvatus or something.
* don't get rid of your better low-end weapons as you're progressing through basic jobs. My lv50 Cast can only handle 4* swords & fists & shotguns at rank 1 and I'm not sure if rank 2 is going to give enough points to make a difference. I think I can go as high as 5* bows, and 6* or maybe better for handguns and sabers.
* be really careful about your HP total! Protransers start off really low. When you're on your own remember your shotgun for incapacitating some of the opponents to reduce risk... and don't forget your bows and high-level PAs when tackling large monsters.
* If you're in over your head for difficulty, the defense negation on Bow and ATA on knuckles should give you at least those as usable weapons.
* I find the class to be a lot of fun for soloing, when I'm willing to swallow my pride and do C's or early B's. The combination of shotgun and sword is just brutal against monsters with low enough DFP/EVP stats to make them effective. Scatter some paralysis / silence / burn around and bat cleanup with Tornado Break. The large degree of multi-hit these weapons offer and high ATP on the sword make for fast status effects and high damage output when you add it up across the group.

Part 3: High Ranks
* ATA maxxes at Rank 6, at twice the starting value so you should get whatever guns you're due for by then (or you're waiting for character level to get you there).
* Lasers and Grenades are damage-multiplier weapons on par with Shotgun and Sword, if not better. I think it would be pretty unwise to ignore them in favor of sticking to gear you're already trained on.
* You can buy a lot of traps for the equipment and PP cost difference between the crap gear we get and the high-end weapons that are available.

Part 3.5: Rank 10
The set of weapons you're going to end up skilled with is with few exceptions the full set of S rank weapons usable by both Fortefighter and Fortegunner. You can switch to either job for much more efficient leveling of specific PA skills. I found picking up some skills for the remaining S-rank weapon classes (Rifle - Killer Shot as gunner, Claw and Twin Claw skills as fighter) made these classes feel "new" enough that I really enjoyed working with them rather than feeling like a "gimped" Protranser.
* when going gunner, you're going to want to get your handgun and grenade skills at or very close to level for SE3 so you can help status large monsters without learning a ton of rifle PA's you can't use as your core class, or blowing through stacks of traps all the time.
* as a fighter you will have a LOT more ATP, making multi-hit weapons like knuckles and claws more of your main offense. Oh, take time to enjoy seeing 2k damage crits on those Axe PA moves.

Part 4: Tactics
Over the last couple days I've gone from really disappointed with my character's stats to feeling like he's pretty bad-ass, white numbers when looking at ForteTecher attributes or no.

* Just because of poor HP I spend a lot of time hanging out with the back-ranks guys, shooting my bow to support the hunters. What's nice about it is that I'm in good position to whip out my sword or knuckles and kick monsters who come after us back into the melee up front.
* If you're going to use traps or lasers or grenades on mobile mobs, look for natural chokepoints where a lot are going to get stuck in the AOE. Doors, halls, bridges, protruding corners where monsters are going to bunch up on as they squeeze around. Tell your party what's up in advance so melees don't blitz the spawn points and screw up your nicely organized plan.
* If you're with other advanced-job characters, bear in mind that mid-level bow, rifle, or technique hits can status large monsters... you can cheapskate on traps to save them for when it's really important to get your status on immediately.

Part 4B: Specific Weapons and Tactics
Axes - When you finally get these, you're in for a treat. The high ATP goes a long way towards making up for class shortcomings against single targets.
* The basic axe attack is REALLY SLOW, like you'll think "wow I'm really whipping this sword around". Not good against moving mobs at all unless you luck out and tag something with the knockdown hit. You can start a PA very quickly after one normal swing, which is a nice free damage boost.
* Anga Redda is just crazy for damage output over the first 2 attacks in the combo. A little help with crowd control will let you plow into two targets pretty consistently.
NOTE: Anga Redda should be called Kill Bil. The full combo will start a spin with the launch at the end of the second move, and the third move power-hit is timed just right to cancel it. Just don't miss!
* Anga Durega is a really good utility move with a fast and very controllable knockback hit, followed by the really powerful jumping hit... you should only spend the PP on that if you've got other targets nearby to lock on to. Normally you knock things out of reach with the first move.
NOTE:The full combo flattens large monsters in no time, you start by knocking them over, then pile on the rest of the combo just in time to knock them over again with the last hit in the series. The third hit is terribly ineffective against mobile opponents because the attack area is tiny
* you can equip two axes on the action palette and quickly switch between Durega for knockdowns and Redda for damage output

Grenades - I just got hold of a launcher and LOVE IT. Grenades knock down everything they hit. It's great support for your melee guys up front, especially since you don't have to put your neck on the line to do the effect like you would with a melee PA. Grenades can also fire over terrain obstacles, like down into rooms from the safety of balcony-type areas, for great team support and high amusement value. While the weapon type doesn't have great accuracy, after a while you will be able to hit pretty easily in S missions even with low-level skills linked (a significant ATA penalty).

If you're doing a LOT of knockdown support you might prefer to unlink your skills in order to conserve PP and boost ATA.

NOTE: grenades level up VERY QUICKLY if you're in a mission that presents enough good targets for them, and carry stacks of photon charges to keep your weapon fed. Tunnel Recapture features tons of Kogs and Duras, Desert Goliath features tons of Grinna Bete. Your PA levels will thank you, your teammates will thank you.

Lasers - great ATP and ATA, plus they hit everything in their path. Keep an eye for narrow terrain like bridges and halls, as well as spawn formations for mostly-immobile enemies like Gohmon or simple pack hunters like Ageeta. If you can position and aim quickly (use 1st person for the most finesse) it's possible to do damage at an insane rate with one of these. Lasers have no stopping power whatsoever though... for a change you're going to be the guy asking the team for some support.
NOTE: when you start getting swarmed by all the targets you're owning you can quick-switch to a second (identical models) cannon, with Maylee Prism. Send the enemies flying and move a bit to line up for going back to elemental damage. Or of course you can save the palette space and PA frags and pull out some awesome melee.

Knuckles - knuckles big statistic is ATA. They're great for accuracy, making them indespensible at lower levels. Their Photon Arts will look awesome and serve you well even when you're using other weapon classes heavily:
* Bogga Danga goes through a multi-hit flinch, then knockdown/knockback, then an acrobatic leaping attack with more knockback.
NOTE: The third move deals incredible damage (think Dus Daggas or better) if you can catch a large creature with the handspring at the start and then crash down on it with the pounce as well.
NOTE: The full combo has 2 knockback moves, letting you scatter 5 targets in rapid succession. Great for keeping crowds of Go-Varha from eating your techer.
* Bogga Zubba is the melee version of your grenade launcher. You can start the attack from a bit of distance (e.g. outside Kogg Nad's spikes) and it's great for knocking things over quickly.

Swords - huge ATP and surprising reach. If there's more than one monster around, Sword is the best weapon available for regular attack damage output. High ATP weapon + up to 3 hits per swing, nothing else compares.
Spears - another weapon with great ATA, ATP and reach... though the AOE is very narrow in front of you. I find the range hard to use defensively, since the attack animation moves you forward a good bit.
*How you deal with these weapons is up to you. Both have a sweep PA (Sword's is probably better) and a multi-hitter (Spear's is definitely better) ... Keeping each weapon type for just what it's best at means maintaining two collections of weapons. You can focus on one class of weapon and quickly flip between the different moves, but that leaves you with a second-best PA one way or the other.

Shotguns - aren't the powerhouses they are for higher-ATP classes, but are still one of your best per-hit damage weapons. More importantly they also land status effects really quickly when you're hitting with 4 or 5 bullets at a time. The ammo lasts almost forever too. A great weapon for making a Hunter teammate's job easier.
NOTE: Barada Maga is a perfect PA frag technique for Protransers. Fortegunners have way more ATA and don't need to debuff EVP, Fortefighters don't have shotguns and can't debuff EVP. You've got shotguns, you have reasons to debuff evade. So do it. NAO!!

Handgun and Saber - We all picked up Protransers for the huge array of exotic weapons, right? Why am I writing about the most boring, generic, form of attack available? Being boring doesn't make things any less awesome. Also _nobody_ uses handgun and saber any more making it exotic and mysterious all over again, like going to a hamburger joint in Japan.

Handguns are great SE weapons and do excellent damage at level 21+. Sabers have amazing ATP, and Rising Strike is a very cheap PA with excellent crowd control and a high damage modifiers. More important is what these weapons can do together with no weapon switch time at all. With skilled use of PA, melee lock-ons, camera control and first person view, you can be attacking targets all over the place in extremely rapid succession with a combination of status effects and damage output that will leave both fighters and gunners (and even Fighgunners, no top-tier gun skills for them) feeling a little jealous.

In S2 difficulty missions there are times you're going to NEED to stay mobile too and these are your only option.

NOTE: Once upon a time I actually made a joke about someone ignoring Protransers awesome weapon options, that they were the worst handgun-and-saber fighters of all the advanced classes and hence sucked ... I totally apologize to everyone. It is impossible to say something more wrong.

Trap SE's - Mobs with a Shield icon take half damage and are highly resistant to status effects. Traps are the best or only way to deal statuses to these guys, and well worth it if a group show up because they can be incredibly tough and do a ton of damage. Note that traps can not inflict statuses to which the creature is outright immune, e.g. burn and silence vs mechanical enemies.
Status traps in the right situations can save lives, particularly confusion/silence against large groups of tech-using creatures, or shock against large groups of physical attackers. These conditions don't last very long, but it is enough for the rest of your team to get a foot-hold in a fight for crowd control and/or inflicting additional SE.
Dealing a DOT quickly with a trap when you see a good target come up, as opposed to trying to tag it with a ranged weapon, can make battles dramatically shorter. You're free to switch to your most effective weapon available (pure damage and/or physical crowd control) rather than plugging away with non-elemental bow for the time it takes to land your SE.
Changes along the way have made damage traps (while you've got them) a protranser-specific option for putting a large amount of hurt very quickly on a monster, even multi-target bosses.

More useful trap info
Regular traps are SE1, trap G's are SE3. For the main DOT traps it breaks down like this:
Burn Trap = 10% damage in 10s (2%/2s x 10)
Virus Trap = 25% damage in 20s (5%/4s x 5)
Burn Trap G = 20% damage in 10s (4%/2s x 5)
Virus Trap G = 35% damage in 28s (5%/4s x 7)
* Virus Trap beats Burn on both total damage and rate of damage. These things are great for taking on single large targets, supposing you can catch them with the simple time-delay detonation.

Damage, Poison, and Silence traps will launch monsters in the air. The durations on most status traps are so short that straight-out knockdown is almost as good when it comes to incapacitating targets... they also work on (most, maybe not Kamatoze) large monsters, which are routinely immune to shock / silence / confuse.

Sleep Trap G give a fairly long-lasting incapacitation effect, 12 seconds, however the effect is also broken by any weapon hit.

Part 6: Research Topics
* More details on equipment available by level and race. Other advanced jobs don't have to rank up before they get to play with new toys (or even their old ones from basic classes) ... I've added a list for it but need tons of help filling it in.
* Managing your action palette. Most of the ProTranser's hardware is special-purpose. There aren't enough slots on the palette to have one of everything armed and ready for switching. Suggestions on how to organize your options are welcome.
* Why Don't My Grenades Land SE3 On Large Monsters. My bows were statusing large creatures, with some difficulty, at SE3. I've seen fire grenades proc on Kamatoze, but haven't infected a Kogg or Dura yet with my dark ones.

Appendix A: Equipment Progression
... or How Long Until I Can Get My 'leets On?
Cast M
51/PT1 - Shigga Amza (105 ATA)
51/PT2 - Calibur, Rivet Gloves (232 ATP)
53/PT3 - Gur Neda (151 ATA)
56/PT3 - Ascalon, Graters (268 ATP)
61/PT6 -or- 62/PT5 - Ank Tomho (339 ATP)
64/PT8 - Caliburn (381 ATP)
80/PT10 - Rabol Asted (110 DFP)

Human M
40/PT2 -
4* melee weapons except some Tenora
4* Shotguns, Longbows, Alteric
4* Megaline shield
6* GRM sabers
7* Handguns

45/PT4 -
7* Laser Cannon

60/PT8 -or- 61/PT7
7* Axe

Beast F
56/PT6 (best estimate) -
7* Laser Cannon
7* Grenade Launcher

58/PT6 (best estimate) -
7* Axe
1* Crazed jealousy from other PT's

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-07-04 09:04 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-08-24 22:57 ]</font>

[Fleur-de-Lis]

With my little experience, I can only offer newbies like me advice on what not to do. I haven't even hit a LV capable of switching to Protranser, after all.

Hunter: I pretty much stuck exclusively with the Knuckle and Spear PAs, soloing and draining all my C Rank weps with as many hits as quickly as possible. In the 5 Hunter LV before I switched to Force, Dus Daggas hit LV17 and Bogga Danga hit LV15. Jagdpanzer's tip about Swords sounds good; personally I just don't care for them.

Ranger: Here I use Handgun/Dagger combos and Shotguns (I know, a Ranger who doesn't use Twin Handguns or Rifles, for shame!), focusing on Shotgun Bullets almost exclusively. In the first two Ranger LV, Barata Riga hit LV11 and Barata Diga hit LV8.

Force: This is where I screwed up and spent way more time and money than was necessary. Mainly all I did was Resta/Reverser parties and got those Technics up pretty high. On the plus side, I can always switch back in the future and be a viable B- or possibly A-Rank medic while raising Technic LV.

Given the OP plus a lot of the reading I've done regarding the Protranser, I'm probably going to stick with Ranger until all my Shotgun Bullets are at least 11+, then go to Hunter to get the PAs to 20, then go to Force to work Bow shots until I hit base LV50 or so. I might change this based on future posts, but those are my newbie tips for now.

[SolRiver]

Few other tips:
Search trap prices in player shop.

Search info on how to use every class, and the mechanic behind it.

The moment of changing into protranser, think of it as dividing your current lv by 2. If you had been playing A, you would do better in B. If you had been doing B, you fall into C. This is of course, considered for solo cases.

[panzer_unit]

I never thought about this before, but holy hell are swords ever underrated... for their basic attack at least, e.g. when you're trying to go easy on PP a bit.

To start they've got high ATP for a melee weapon. That's a BIG DEAL for Protrancer where you've got so little of your own for elemental %'s to work their magic on, and then enemy DFP to overcome.

More importantly, in the right situations for a sword each swing is going to hit 2-3 things... realizing that you're throwing out up to 9 hits per combo like that puts the rapid-fire melee weapons into a whole new perspective for me. Lower weapon damage and only 6 or 7 hits? No thanks.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2006-12-12 13:02 ]</font>

[Rizen]

Very nice! Glad to see a guide for Protranser being made. Keep up the good work and I will help with any info I gather as I level up my alternative character.

Pretty much everything I have on the top of my head has already been said. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif
Small error in your topic header tho http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[panzer_unit]

That's the Canadian spelling ^_-
... oh good, I can fix it on my own

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2006-12-12 14:06 ]</font>

[Rizen]

Oh? Forgive me then. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Dhylec]

Nice, sticky-listed. Keep updating it. We can use more guides around here now that there are more content to the game. ;]

[panzer_unit]

Hitting level 52/PT1 (M Cast) let me use Shigga Amza again. Man am I ever glad to have those back.

I pulled out my whole supply of special traps that I'd been dumping into storage since before the update and started messing around. The "deal" seems to be as follows:

Damage Trap G - 250-ish damage to multiple strike points on large mobs + juggle.

Status Trap G - 100% chance of status for up to 3 targets. Shock, Sleep, Confuse seem to be disappointingly short. Like set off the trap, change to bow and fire 2 shots... status is over. Burn, Poison, and Virus have reasonable durations.

... I noticed Virus doing 600+ damage per tick to a Kogg Nad in Valley B, Poison and Burn were significantly less damaging when I tried those. So not all DOT's are created equal.

[Alisha]

On 2006-12-12 13:01, panzer_unit wrote:
I never thought about this before, but holy hell are swords ever underrated... for their basic attack at least, e.g. when you're trying to go easy on PP a bit.

To start they've got high ATP for a melee weapon. That's a BIG DEAL for Protrancer where you've got so little of your own for elemental %'s to work their magic on, and then enemy DFP to overcome.

More importantly, in the right situations for a sword each swing is going to hit 2-3 things... realizing that you're throwing out up to 9 hits per combo like that puts the rapid-fire melee weapons into a whole new perspective for me. Lower weapon damage and only 6 or 7 hits? No thanks.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2006-12-12 13:02 ]</font>


to bad the male version of the sword combo blows if you do the full 3 hit string. it has huge recoil at the end compared to the female one http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif actually it seems like every combo where the female version is different its also better perhaps to make up for the atp/ata stat difference.

is there shock traps? i'm wondering if maybee damage traps are earth element.

[panzer_unit]

I tend to 2-hit with fists and swords because you're right on that the last hit is something of a liability. I'll only use it from safety, otherwise it's better to take the really fast recovery and reposition. It's not like PSO where the later hits in your combo are more accurate or anything so it's not a huge loss when you can't get them out.

I would expect silence traps are Earth element, damage and burn both look pretty firey of course... I haven't tested for element bonuses on Damage Trap damage.

BTW M Cast lv53/PT2 exactly meets requirements for GRM 5* melee at 232 ATP. That's the second level/rank combo that's exactly met the requirements for a weapon.

[Alisha]

do damage traps still knock enemies up online? i've seen nobody mention that in any protranser topics that why i ask.

[panzer_unit]

Unexpected pregnancy jokes aside, yes damage traps still flip monsters. The problem is that it doesn't seem terribly useful since you can do the same thing a lot of the melee PA's (1st hit with Rising Strike, 2nd with Bogga Danga, 3rd with Tornado Break) repeatedly and practically for free. Really, re-stocking traps from the NPC should be on par with recharging PP (use traps whenever possible) or at the very worst purchasing the amount of 'mate you would save bu using a trap to avoid being hit (use traps whenever you're without a Fo). As it is, a single G trap would have to wipe out an entire A rank encounter or an entire block in C rank to justify costs vs loot and rewards.

Damage traps are justifiable against Kogg Nad since the spikes can trigger EVP and screw up your PA... and Kamatoze because if you don't flip 'em you are very likely to get smoked by the Nosubarta they're 99.9% likely to hit you back with... supposing you have a huge number of melee characters who are waiting on that safe chance to rush and pile up the damage.

[AC9breaker]

I doubt damage traps are fire based, but I might do some tests later on tonight to verify it for myself. If Damage traps are neutral, then I would also assume that silence and poison are both earth elemental.

Actually I've found damage trap to be pretty useful and I speculate they will be even more useful once we gain access to Axes. A strategy I've been contemplating is knocking down the enemy then taking adavantage of its recovery period with a hard hitting weapon. If you notice, just about all of Protransers weapons are hard hitting. While saber and knuckle PA's can knock enemies down, its kinda hard to switch to weapons fast enough & get a good string off. Meanwhile, with explosion traps, you could potentially, knock enemies down, switch to axe while you position yourself behind them then unleash a combo, PA Shotgun blasts, or whatever intill they regain their composure.

Also, I think we should get a discussion going on the roles of traps. Lets put aside the detail of cost and talk about their effectiveness.
While traps are great and all, we should realize a few things. The amount of traps we have is limited. So therefore we should reserve what traps we decide to use for the appropiate situation. Burn, Virus, and Poison traps. Obviously these should be saved for the Huge mobs. Tenghoghs, Kogg Nadd, etc.

I think Damage traps would serve nicely in mage enemy formation. You could throw down a trap in the middle of the formation and blast them all across the screen making it safer to take them out individually for the close combat specialists in the groups or yourself. I've yet to use shock and Silence traps and I've still to make up my mind on freeze traps.

[Neith]

I was in a party with a Protranser last night, and nearly died when I saw how much G-Traps annihilate enemies. 600+ every few seconds to Tengohgs is sick. We NEED more Protransers, dammit.

[panzer_unit]

I get a normal (e.g. bad) weapon-switching lag... both going from weapon -> trap and trap -> weapon... so there's no more advantage flipping a monster over with a weapon skill then changing weapons to pile on the damage, vs flipping a monster over with a damage trap. Personally I go sword. The third swing on Tornado Break can knock large monsters over (and farther than usual lol) and you can get in there for 2-3 hits and another full Tornado Break combo so the last swing hits just as they're on their feet and ready to be knocked over again. Just hope the effect goes off... it's not 100% in my experience.

I guess if you're packing the right variety of traps you could have enough to mess up every large monster you see in a mission. Let's take nasty casters as an example: you could use Silence, Freeze, and Sleep traps ... maybe some Confuse, it seems effective but I've only dropped on packs of enemies ... making a total of 15-20 ways to shut up a Jarbra for a while. On the other hand it takes so long to beat those guys up, I wonder how many you could get through if your plan was just to totally stop it from casting while other people do the damage.

I wonder: maybe it's enough to get started with a fast status from a trap (sleep, say) then start working with Ice and Earth bow skills to alternate between freeze and silence.

Note that early in the PT job it's DANGEROUS to be up close trapping Kamatoze and Jarbra, thanks to the awesome tag team of super low HP and awful MST. Maybe it's wise to highly suggest Gi-Senba for missions where you're facing a creature with that persistent Barta spell.

[Cav]

For referense Virus is 5% hp every 4sec for 32sec, burn is 4% every 2sec for 10secs and poison is 2% <.< didnt bother getting the times. I would only recommend using traps on large annoying mobs if you value your wallet at all.
fire bow 21+ is really nice too, lvl 4 burn is definately hax and trap saving. took me one day of skilling bow to get 21 so it's not like other ranged weapons.
Only G traps are really worth it imo. Since normal traps only hit one mob and aren't instant. G traps have 100% lvl 4 status while normals have lvl 2 status.
Also, carry scapes as PT1, >.> with <700 hp you had better.

[Genoa]

IMO, I think Protranser is a horrible class to rush into if you just hit HU 5, RA 5, and FO 5 only. Now i'm definately not bashing Protranser... Infact someday I plan on making my M-Cast go Protranser. But for the easiest Protranser development... I think i'm going to max all all the bullet levels I have as Fortegunner (for the guns that Protranser can equip) and switch to Fortefighter and max out all the melee PA's that Protranser can use.... By then i'll be a high enough level to do decently run S rank missions. This will be the time to go Protranser and wear all the lower grade equipment I've collected on my long voyage towards PA perfection. I have no shame in doing lower grade runs for faster mission points to secure the safety of the party and the rewards of others. We all have friends that we fly by in levels, why not still be able to join them with crippled lvl.1 Protranser stats?

I'm all for Protranser, but try not to do things way over your head in a party who really admires the S rank <_> ... (almost every party admires S rank...)

[Rizen]

I do agree with MegamanX here, dont rush into Protranser. I rushed Protranser on my alt and made the change at lv 27ish I believe. I had a hard time adjusting to the change of very low stats with underlevel'd PAs. For the most part, I was able to hang in on missions using bow but other than that I was doing 0 damage or almost getting 1-shot any given enemy. I had to retreat to low level C rank missions until I was able to level up my PAs and use better equipment. If you wait til you are higher and/or plan out your Protranser the change wont be as harsh.
Currently Im lv 40 Protranser 2 1/2 with my main PAs from 16~22ish. Im able to melee in A rank missions now but I have to be careful of the heavy hitters like the Buls in Moatoob. I mostly use Swords, Spears, Shotgun, and Longbow. Getting Tornado Break to lv 21 is well worth it, the knockback from the 3rd attack will save your hide if you get surrounded. As far as traps, you only really need to use them for the more annoying enemies that have high HP, high defense/evasion, or just need to die quick.
As far as grouping, if you dont have a group you are familiar with, going one rank lower than what you normally would to be safe. S/A rank missions can get nasty if the group doesnt know what they are doing, resulting in you being in a tough spot if you need help. B/C ranks are a bit more forgiving than the other two. If you got a group you run with on the daily basis, keep at your normal pace. Your team probably knows how you play by now and/or be more friendly for helping you adjust to the new role.

Hopes this helps a bit.

[rena-ko]

a few thoughts about the issue...
job level 1: 50% HP
job level 2: 60% HP
job level 3: 70% HP
job level 4: 80% HP
job level 5: 90% HP
job level 6: 100% HP
job level 7: 105% HP
job level 8: 110% HP
job level 9: 115% HP
job level 10: 120% HP


overall, very lousy stats. some of them get out of the sub-100% range (based on raw stats) around level 6. before that, it will be tough.

[Rizen]

Well considering how Protranser start with 50% and end with 120% (third highest max %HP of the expert classes if I remember), I think its pretty amazing.
It is pretty lousy at first but Im looking forward to lv 4 Protranser, I can start using some more of my B ranks and hopefully Launchers when I level up base some more.

[panzer_unit]

Rizen: can you post level and rank when you get access to anything particularly cool? It would be nice to give people accurate equipment-progression expectations.

[AC9breaker]

I think what an aspring protranser should do first is, get the best Shotgun/Bow/Handguns first, then switch to Protranser as soon as possible. Reason being is, When you first start playing protranser, No way in hell can you even think about jumping to the fray with your low hp. Its ricockulous how low it is, My cast is 47 now with 60x hp. Even on C rank Neudeiz mission have enough of a threat to kill me if I'm careless. So to better benefit the team you should stay in the back. While your at it, you can be leveling up you Bow PA or Shotgun. I think it would be good to have shotgun level to 20 before you switch too.

Since these advance jobs require alot more experience points then the basic job, you can imgaine that you'll be in the back for quite some time. So it best to start getting the protranser level up while your still low level and need money then when your higher level and don't need money. At the moment I've been doing Agata Relic B runs as protranser, I'm also learning alot about traps and situational awerness and leveling up my Bow Bullet Arts.

[panzer_unit]

The ATA requirements on Bow, Handgun, and Saber are nice and low... getting the best weapons you can in those classes after changing to the new class is a good idea. The class definitely shoo's you into a back-ranks sniper for the first while. Shotguns are hard to work with early on since they're hit by the triple whammy of low level gear, poor ATP, and poor ATA. I'm starting to get back up there for damage, hitting between 60~80 per bullet makes it my best DPS weapon even vs bow.

Even at PT2 I'm starting to get up close and personal with monsters in S rank missions as I gain confidence. Largely it's through shotgunning or melee PA combos so I'm still not in much danger of soaking up hits... if anything I should really use my bows a lot more. Right now I'm mainly pulling them out to burn large mobs or save drain on my shotguns.

[Rizen]

Well when I get home I can tell you the exacts but I will try do some without looking.

Being Human M at lv 40 Protranser 2, I have roughly 176 ATP, 94 ATA, and 38 DFP. I'm beginning to be able to use most 4* Melee weapons (Can't use some Tenora Works still) but can use 6* GRM Sabers. As far as Ranged weapons...I can use 7* Handguns (I believe), 4* Shotgun and Longbows (But able to use Alteric *score!*). For armor, Megaline 4* armor.

So pretty much if you like using high rank weapons, stick with GRM and Kubara weapons (both have low requirements for usage) and Saber/Handgun.

When I get home I will confirm what I said in this post.

Edit: Made a few corrections: 38 DEF 94 ATA

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-12-18 18:59 ]</font>

[AC9breaker]

Yeah I think the Kubara weapons are perfect for Protranser. I think I can use Shigga Damduc now. Currently working on obtaining it.

[panzer_unit]

I am _loving_ my new toy: Gur Neda. It's not terribly practical, but has its uses for sure...
launch some shots on ranks of ranged attackers and then move in while they're getting back up
keep knocking large mobs over to make life really easy for your pals in melee

I may start leveling the skills for it while guarding lowbies on easy missions at some point... but for the meanwhile I'm leaving it unlinked for high-rank missions in order to get full accuracy. All I really care about is providing my team with the long-range launcher effect.

[panzer_unit]

Here's a question for anyone with a higher-rank PT... once you can start equipping Grenades, Lasers, and Axes there are far too many options to put in the action palette, and that's ignoring having duplicate weapon types (e.g. fire shotgun + ice shotgun for fast switching)

A lot of the equipment available is pretty distinctive, but there are some functional overlaps. I'm looking for ideas on what to have ready and when.

Actually, thinking about it more the weapons group up well enough. Then it just comes down to picking the better tools for your mission or team from each category, and how many.

Shotgun vs Handgun & Saber ... effective status effects + direct damage
Axe vs Knuckle vs Spear ... single-target melee, tradeoffs in which PA hit has knockback
Sword vs Grenade ... both have AOE & knockback effect
Bow vs Laser ... accurate ranged attack, single vs multi-target

[Rizen]

I was just reminded to post something....Humans do not get bonus from Protranser according to PSU Bible. This makes me /cry but I dont mind, didnt pick Human for Protranser for stats anyway.

As far as whether which weapon is better...I thought I might just post my opinion.

Shotgun vs Handgun/Saber: As much as I love shotgun, I would pick Handgun/Saber. More flexible and able to go first person. Also can very easily switch between melee and range in a second. On top of that, Handguns and Sabers have very low requirements for usage allowing you to use them at lower levels.
Axe vs Knuckle vs Spear: I cant say much for Axe but I would choose Spear out of this category. Spears alot more distance than Axe and Knuckles allowing you to keep a bit a range from being hit. Also the Spear PAs are very flashy. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
Sword vs Grenade: Cant say here....Both are very slow and leave you open, one is melee and one is ranged, one is doesnt require much aiming while the other one requires alot of aiming. If you like to be upclose, choose Sword, if you like being at a range, choose Grenade.
Bow vs Laser: I would choose Bow here solely for the purpose of SE 4. I would still use Laser because...c'mon it looks badass XD

[AC9breaker]

As Rizen has pointed out, they both have specific playing styles, so it comes down mostly to preference and what the situation calls for.

[panzer_unit]

After some more thought....

Hunter support: Shotgun, Knuckles, Grenade, Bow... emphasis on dealing fast statuses and kicks/knockdowns. Bow has great stopping power and statuses for firing into melee.

Force/Ranger support: H&S, Spear, Sword, Laser... saber FTW when you need to get a leader mob away from your force. spear and sword can do longer PA combos without booting the monster and messing up people's aim. Lasers can deal awesome damage to grouped enemies, and your team won't be messing up the formations with PA hits as much.

[KiteWolfwood]

At the moment I am a 48 Cast. Eventually I plan on being a Prontranser. But that is still a long ways away since I am trying to get my base level higher so that when I do switch I will have least a little better survivability. Also I am working on getting myself a stock pile of meseta built up that way I can pimp my self out with what I would need as a Protranser. Protransers really are a underestimated class. Specially since it looks like Expert type levels will go up to level 20. I am curious what a level 20 Protranser will looks like.

[panzer_unit]

I'd expect us to stay about where we are, balance-wise; we'll probably end up with somewhere between 70~80% the total ATP you would see from other fighting classes.

Last night was a ton of fun for me, running around in lower-level Forested Islands and Grove of Fanatics skilling up on laser and grenades. Gohmons are great targets for both weapon types since they're relatively stationary, and Kamatoze are huge suckers for grenades. While the enemies in Grove are very mobile, you can use the halls and doors to awesome effect. ... now all I've got to do is keep a tight leash on the hunters I bring so they don't scatter my targets all over lol.

[thefixer]

gotta love chinatown

[AC9breaker]

i would recommened picking up an Alteric Bow and grinding it to at least +7. Its really a great bow for Protranser what with is low requirements. You wont be able to use a Grende Launcher till at least level 52. Hopefully by then you'll have protranser to 3 if you start now. I've yet to mess with Cannon but I can finally equip one now as level 51 (3) Protranser cast.

[Rizen]

I been debating for a long time, which would be better to stack up on: Defense or Evasion? Personally, I would go Evasion but after a bit I been thinking about how Defense would work. If you get more evasion, that means more dodging and less damage (0 dmg). On the flip side you will be interrupted in between attacks alot. If you go defense you also get less damage (aside from max dmg taken with low defense), but how much defense would help you from taking massive damage?

[etlitch]

S-rank Things sometimes deal 200+ dmg on my figunner. That means that you'l need 1000 DFP to cover those 200 dmg, plus the DPF that my figunner already has.

DFP, you can't really stack it so much that your char becomes a walking tank.

EVP stacking basicly means that you'l need a class that starts out with high EVP, fortecher is out of the suggestion since it needs DFP to prevent it from getting 1 hit, which leaves you with wartecher.

Really, as a protranser I'd reccomend you to avoid stacking a single defence stat - try getting something in the medium. Probably a GRM armour since PT has the same MST as any melee class, but much lower maxHP.

[Rizen]

So pretty much stick with what I have (Gigaline with soon to add Mega/Wall).

[AC9breaker]

Yeah, I would go against stacking on defensive stats as well. They're all ready really crummy and don't get much better with levels. I would either go with HP, Atk, or Acc.

[Rizen]

Well, dont have to worry about HP, Atk, and Acc since they are on different Body slots. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif
I just got lv 45 and 50% through Protranser 3. If I am correct, I will be able to use Cannons and Grenade launchers when my class level goes up.
All my equipment is pretty much B rank now and I can use 5* guns and bows now. Thats it for now.

Oh, and Im using a Gigaline. And I use A rank Saber Jitseen and A rank Beamgun.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2006-12-23 20:31 ]</font>

[Pottle]

Hi hi, I'm a M-Newman: level 60 base, (3) Class Protranser and... well, my character still sucks! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
Loading up on tons of traps is the only way I seem to be helpful in most S rank parties. My Laser and Grenade Launcher damages are abyssmal, but my Bow damage is great. Since I dont have to worry about tagging everything to get exp, I usually concentrate on setting off traps on big HP enemies then deal status inflicting attacks on enemies with a bow. Works out fine, looking forward to the stat boosts in the class rank ups!
In my opinion, if you're a beginner Protranser, stick to a support style tactic while in parties. Even now, my HP still sucks so I usually rush to the back ranks after setting off traps. With the HP boosts later though I won't have to worry so much about running and hiding! Good luck all you fledgling transers and keep up the good work vet transers! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Rizen]

Just hit Protranser 4 at lv 46 and man look at those stats grow:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Phantasy%20Start%20Universe%20Online%20Pics/Psu2006-12-2510-19-03-32.jpg

So close...yet so far...
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Phantasy%20Start%20Universe%20Online%20Pics/Psu2006-12-2510-28-51-59.jpg

Still 8 ATA away from using Grenade Launcher...me = sad. *paws at window of Laser Cannon*

[Sgt_Shligger]

Hmm. . . I wanna try out protranser but my newman is already level 41 >_>

I've got rangers 6 and force 3 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Is it still feasible for me to switch classes so late? I'm currently Guntecher 3. Should I suck it up and make a new character for this or should I just stick with my main?

[AC9breaker]

If your guy is 41, I'd say do it now. Right now your probably still doing alot of A ranks, which isn't too bad. But once you get to the point where your mostly doing S ranks its gonna be tough those first 3 levels of Protranser. Just make sure you find yourself a really good Bow that you can equip when you switch and check your ego at the door.

[Rizen]

Its a beauty....
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Phantasy%20Start%20Universe%20Online%20Pics/Psu2006-12-2619-17-54-39.jpg

Heres my stats at 48
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Phantasy%20Start%20Universe%20Online%20Pics/Psu2006-12-2620-50-26-64.jpg

[Zato-2TWO]

Hi, I'm a level 30 Caseal Ranger 5/Force 4, and I have a question about the long and perilous journey that is the Protranser's class requirements.

Would it be better to switch straight to PT once I hit Hunter 5? The way I see it is that I want to start leveling up the PT's expert type levels early so I won't be quite as stat-slashed as I would be if I switched to PT1 at a later level.

Also, what's the best way to rack up mission points to burn through the basic classes? Being a Cast Force inspires murderous tendencies! =O

[Gen2000]

The fastest way to rack up mission points for Basic Classes lv.5 would be De Ragan C Speed Runs, you can easily find them on the Mission List.

There are some better options but factoring in the effort to the right group and the fact that De Ragan C SRs is tired, true, and seems to be the standard in powerleveling Basic Classes you can't go wrong with that. You can get 3-4 Type Levels in one day with the right speed run party.

[AC9breaker]

If your looking to rack up mission points fast, I would recommend going to Agata Relics on Universe 1. You're almost always sure to find a group doing B runs there also, you can make some good money there get plent of mission points. 18 I think for B, which would help. As for switching to Protranser asap, Make sure you got the best Ranged weaponry you can equip first. It would help also if your bullet arts where leveled some as well. But as long you got the best Ranged weapons you can use for your character, your good to go. Once you hit protranser 2 and 3 you can start considering looking into Melee weapons.

[rena-ko]

might point out that the (im)perfect bible has a typo and that humans get a 3% race bonus after all for protransers. now to check if newmen get the bonus as promissed in the bible...

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2006-12-28 05:58, rena-ko wrote:
now to check if newmen get the bonus as promissed in the bible...



No, they do not. :-/

[panzer_unit]

Bump with some info about traps: seems from playing a lot of Lab S on the holidays that only PT's can affect leader Jarbas with Virus G traps. My ForteGunner friend tried a bunch and apparently can't. I can't burn the things with my SE4 fire bow skill either.

So, things to remember:
1. Leaders have some sort of SE immunity, try not to waste time trying normal status attacks
2. Protranser traps ignore this, this is your chance to represent for the class... hit the mobs that count where it hurts

Research: lower-type leaders... Vandas, Varharas... I think these guys get the same status immunity too, do they require a G trap or will regular ones also proc the effect?

[Wheatpenny]

Nice Guide I am gona suggest this to my friend who is a protranser.

[panzer_unit]

Thanks! It's a tough job, I figured the new recruits could use a hand.

About traps / statuses / leaders again... I virused a Go Varhara leader using a regular Virus Trap. If memory serves I can't do ANYTHING to those guys with a bow, so the same class bonus for trap use is probably in play.

That said, I totally forgot how hard regular traps are to hit with. What a pain. I'll stick with G and deal with single mid-size leader enemies the old fashioned way.

[Zato-2TWO]

I was just going to ask about how we Protransers felt about the Fortegunners being able to use all of our advanced traps, despite their overwhelming advantages over us. But now that I see we can SE leader monsters and they can't, it looks like Protransers just one-upped them! Go Protransers!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zato-2TWO on 2007-01-03 10:53 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Yeah. Fortegunners also don't pwn in melee like we do. PA c-c-combo! for the win.

EDIT: I'm serious about that, too. Wait until you're trying to train laser; you always end up getting surrounded by the little gits you start off shooting... there's nothing better than a big PA combo to set them straight.

Before the advanced class update I went to 5 on all classes, then back to Ranger to 10, then back to Hunter to 8... the thing that hurt most as a ranger was the lack of hard stopping power. Except for dropping freeze on a mob or catching monsters with a grenade at the right time they're no good at stopping a monster from going wherever it wants. They're great support for hunters, but have it rough when it comes to keeping mobs off of the back-ranks attackers.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-03 13:01 ]</font>

[Talomis]

Hey, just wondering what PM you would suggest using for a protranser, and also what items needed to create said PM. Thanks in advance!

[Zato-2TWO]

Woohoo! Got to Protranser at lvl 37!

Question for all you pro-transers out there: How do you balance your trap budget? I go through something like 7.5K worth of traps during a Mizuraki S run, but I think there should be a way to stretch the budget a bit more.

[AC9breaker]

Well the key is to use traps is only at critical moments and only bringing the right traps for the job. Protranser really takes the name literally since, you have to know what level layout you have, what enemies spawn where and which will be the most difficult to deal with, also who is immune to what status effect. For example Lab Recovery, everyone knows about the last room. So you should prioritize your enemies. Also, don't just limit yourself to G traps. Regular traps work just as fine however, due to their limited range getting them off is bit tricky. I find that, they work best on bigger, slower enemies. Intill, you find a way to make lots of monies, I would recommend using traps sparingly.

[panzer_unit]

You can easily go broke if you're a heavy trap user as a PT. Remember that your specialty isn't variety or volume for traps! All ranger-hybrid classes can use basic traps, and ForteGunners can use all the same traps as a you. Where we come in specifically is status traps against leader type mobs that seem to be immune otherwise... you're looking for quality trap usage, not quantity. Currently I carry a stack of Virus G traps for S rank missions, and I'll only use them when I can hit a couple of leader types. That alone is enough to make a difference in mission completion times and risk levels.

Everything else I figure I should be able to deal with through SE4 bow attacks or pure ranged/melee damage.

For everyone's information, I saw a creature hit simultaneously with Virus and Freeze statuses last night. I thought they were mutually exclusive. I've never seen anything take Freeze and Burn at the same time. I wonder if the two DOT's can stack now?

[AC9breaker]

Well, Freeze and Burn are opposite elements, but I have seen it before. Most likely it was just a glitch. Also, poison and virus stack.

[Gen2000]

On 2007-01-03 12:45, panzer_unit wrote:
Yeah. Fortegunners also don't pwn in melee like we do. PA c-c-combo! for the win.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-03 13:01 ]</font>


Rangers can use Spears, Daggers, and Sabers even though melee weapon using RAs has died down since the first few months of release date and of those only Spear is the only important weapon for the topic at hand. Even with a lv.10 Skill cap, the Spear PA is great even at Combo 1 and RAs can take advantage of that power increase of the extra 9 levels. Since fGs actually have more than 115-160ish ATP than PTs they will be doing more damage with one than a PT.

Maybe at a lv.30 PA the PT will come close or start to slightly outdamaging a fG using the same weapon because of the 29 levels of additional attack bonuses they can get compared to fGs 9 but it's hardly a pwning in melee combat that PT will be doing compared to them if it came down to that.

But like I said a melee using RA is rare, and for good reason since the Rifle or lv.21+Xbow/Shotgun for them is 10000x better for damage output and if they want to spam broken Skill PAs they would go fF or Fighgunner instead.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gen2000 on 2007-01-05 08:48 ]</font>

[AC9breaker]

He wasn't referring to damage output, he was talking about versatility.

[panzer_unit]

I'm referring to damage output, never mind versatility or support capability.

The later moves in a PA combo have more hits, more targets, and higher damage modifiers. For Dus Daggas specifically a fG with lv10 skill (170%) would have a little more listed ATP than a PT with lv30 (190%) ... but not enough to make up for the second and third PA combo moves dealing at least 50% more damage than the first.

[Gen2000]

Versatility wise, the first part of Spear PA is enough for mass AoE damage and crowd control. Asking for any more you need the likes of Twin Sabers or Twin Daggers (both which the fG or the PT can't use). And actually the 3rd of hit of most PAs are weaker, example Combo 3 of Spear and Twin Dagger is noticeably weaker than the Combo 1 and 2. It's better to just spam the first two Combos in most cases.

Combo 2 doesn't hit any more targets than Combo 1, so repeatedly spamming Combo 1 of Dus Daggas can get the same effect as Combo 1 to Combo 2. The reason to go to Combo 2 is more damage during the spam session. Doing Combo 3 is basically just for the knockdown or just showing off (usually the latter in most cases I see).

Like I already said anyways, the lv.30 PA Skill Cap would probably help the PT maybe catch up to the Spear using fG but wouldn't exactly be pwning them, in versatility, support, damage, or whatever else thrown out.

[AC9breaker]

There's more to it then just puttting out numbers. While Dagger and spear 1st tier get the job done so to speak they don't have much stopping power. 3rd tier for Spear is useful in that it trips enemies without sending them flying halfway across the room. You also gotta remember that there are plenty more of PA's that are yet to be unlock which seem to be very capable of attacking multiple enemies multiple times. Also, while spear is alright in mass crowd control, it doesn't help in giving breathing room when surronded like 3rd tier sword PA. You can expect to be hit alot more times by a pack of volfu just spamming the 1st PA of spears, then if you where spamming all 3 Sword PAs. Plus your missing out the point that Protransers use Axe which Spears can't compare to damage wise. Maybe a beast fortegunner using spear could out pace a cast Protranser using axe, but a beast fortegunner? Thats just asinine.

[panzer_unit]

You're trying to argue that a small class ATP advantage is more damage, more support, and more versatility than full PA skill levels and access to swords, knuckles, and axes in addition to spears? Please tell me how that's makes any degree of sense.

Even taking everything you said about the spear PA at full value, repeating the first two hits in the spear PA does better damage for me than repeating just the first. 5 hits in the same time or less than it takes to do 4. Honestly though I expect the last hit on Spear to be at least on par with the second for damage e.g. a good bit better than the first... all the major melee classes have Spear available, it would be retarded to trick all those players into leveling the weapon to 21 just to ditch it because it gets a flat tire compared to all the melee weapons that have awesome final moves.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-05 12:31 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

Sorry to butt in - I have a question, not a comment. The higher level (30) for the Protranser makes all three combos of the Photon Art skill more likely to hit, is that correct?

If that is the case than the PT needs the level 21+ to hope to compete as their ATA is low until Job level 6, right?




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-05 14:22 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Sabers and Knuckles have great ATA for melee weapons, Bows for range.

You'll get a lot better as you go through early ranks. Besides making huge gains for ATA on your own, you'll be progressing through ranks for melee weapons and getting more ATA from that as well (which is probably a big deal for Beasts especially).

I'm not sure where you would want to start working with low-level Sword PA's as an example of a big accuracy penalty... I never had any as a PT, and also I've got a lot of natural ATA as a male Cast.

Hmm. If it means anything, I've got low level Grenade skills (crap weapon accuracy and around 50% ATA from the skill) and started hitting most things pretty reliably in S missions at rank 5. For non-casts maybe the rank 6 estimate is good.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-05 14:38, panzer_unit wrote:
Sabers and Knuckles have great ATA for melee weapons, Bows for range.

You'll get a lot better as you go through early ranks. Besides making huge gains for ATA on your own, you'll be progressing through ranks for melee weapons and getting more ATA from that as well (which is probably a big deal for Beasts especially).

I'm not sure where you would want to start working with low-level Sword PA's as an example of a big accuracy penalty... I never had any as a PT, and also I've got a lot of natural ATA as a male Cast.

Hmm. If it means anything, I've got low level Grenade skills (crap weapon accuracy and around 50% ATA from the skill) and started hitting most things pretty reliably in S missions at rank 5. For non-casts maybe the rank 6 estimate is good.




You seem to know so I'll ask question #2: which PAs (bullets/skills) suffer the most in terms of accuracy penalty besides Grenade Launcher? Are there any that stick out in your mind as good PAs for accuracy?

I ask as I have a Beast, and anything to increase his accuracy is appreciated.

[Gen2000]

On 2007-01-05 11:47, AC9breaker wrote:
There's more to it then just puttting out numbers. While Dagger and spear 1st tier get the job done so to speak they don't have much stopping power. 3rd tier for Spear is useful in that it trips enemies without sending them flying halfway across the room. You also gotta remember that there are plenty more of PA's that are yet to be unlock which seem to be very capable of attacking multiple enemies multiple times. Also, while spear is alright in mass crowd control, it doesn't help in giving breathing room when surronded like 3rd tier sword PA. You can expect to be hit alot more times by a pack of volfu just spamming the 1st PA of spears, then if you where spamming all 3 Sword PAs. Plus your missing out the point that Protransers use Axe which Spears can't compare to damage wise. Maybe a beast fortegunner using spear could out pace a cast Protranser using axe, but a beast fortegunner? Thats just asinine.



Like said only the Spear is the weapon of topic at hand since the only good weapon that's comparable for both the fG and PT. Combo 1 has good stopping power since all of its hits flinches, I used to use Atk > PA all the time as a beginner Hunter on De Ragan A runs all the time to recieve next to no damage at all from the mobs because of flinching/stopping power of just Combo 1. I didn't need breathing room because the enemies couldn't move or counter-attack anyways, crowd control took priority over slinging the enemies into the seperate corners making for faster kills.

Speaking of Volfus, it's not even a question of Combo 1 Spear PA not causing them to flinch (which it can) but if you get smacked around by Volfus trying to flinch them it's because you're not aware that they can go into states where they can absorb any type of hits as long it's not a launcher or knockback. You can still flinch and keep them in check, just have to be smarter about it.


panzer unit wrote:
You're trying to argue that a small class ATP advantage is more damage, more support, and more versatility than full PA skill levels and access to swords, knuckles, and axes in addition to spears? Please tell me how that's makes any degree of sense.


I wasn't arguing just commenting how you mentioned the PT pwns fGs in melee which is not the case if fG even with a lv.10 cap can do more than a PT using the same weapon with a lv.30 cap or the difference is so small in the end it's not exactly what one would call pwning. I don't think 110-160ish ATP difference is small difference either when comparing.



Even taking everything you said about the spear PA at full value, repeating the first two hits in the spear PA does better damage for me than repeating just the first. 5 hits in the same time or less than it takes to do 4. Honestly though I expect the last hit on Spear to be at least on par with the second for damage e.g. a good bit better than the first... all the major melee classes have Spear available, it would be retarded to trick all those players into leveling the weapon to 21 just to ditch it because it gets a flat tire compared to all the melee weapons that have awesome final moves.


Have you seen and compared the damage 3rd Spear PA for yourself? I don't really like it either but that's how it is, I especially noticed with the Spear PA because I used it a lot and the damage difference of Combo 3 compared to Combo 1 and 2 is noticable. This also applies to Twin Daggers (another spam worthy melee PA), it could apply to some more melee weapons but I don't remember differences of each Combo of all melees, if any, offhand to say so. There are few situations where Combo 3 on melee combos can be useful like on big guys like Jarbas since they can't be thrown around but for general mobs it slows down DPS/killing time since it knocks them everywhere.

[AC9breaker]

A class monsters aren't the same as S class monsters. If thats the case then we should just talk about Saber and Handgun because its easy to flinch anything thats under S rank. But back to the point, while the 1st spear combo is as great as it is, it has a slight recovery period which will leave you open for attack by other enemies in the vincinty and the same monster you just attacked in S. Also, the point of breathing room was more towards soloing and low member parties. I'm sure if we where in a party we would both reposition ourselves and probably switch to a ranged weapon. (freeze shotgun myself)

Also I wasn't saying that spear couldn't flinch volfus, but they're attack pattern is very similar to that of savage wolves from PSO in that they like to circle you; Therefore a weapon that only strikes foward like spear, is limited in dealing with a large spawn of these enemies where as a sword can attack and hold volfus no matter which direction they decide to come at you.

[Gen2000]

I just used the A class monsters as an example to show how a lowbie HU who has yet to get Combo 2 ( and too low level for Srank) can still own simply because of how good the Combo 1 of Spear PA is, I'm quite aware of flinching differences. I have experience vs. Srank monsters using a Spear with my fF and the owning effect is the same..just even more so now that I can use Combo 2 as well (and 3, but 1>2 is all I need).

If you get hit during the recovery period of Combo 1 Spear PA, you're using it wrong. I've never been hit by other enemies when using it and especially by the same enemy when using it unless I didn't move at all for whatever reason or did the PA at the same time an enemy was hitting me (which isn't even a specific Spear PA flaw itself, as that can happen with any weapon).

It's not that hard to gather Volfus in spot in front of you, their A.I. isn't that advance.

[AC9breaker]

I didn't realize you said hunter, a hunter has significantly more atp then a fortegunner also, now your talking about fortefighter, different then fortegunner and ranger altogether. Their huge atp bonuses plays a significant role in flinching as it seems like flinching is based on amount of damage delt. Heck you could totally keep an enemy immobolized with axe if you're acc is good enough and timing right. But this is deviating from the main point which is Protranser being superior in melee combat then a Fortegunner.

As for the volfus, your right. Its not hard to line them up, but it is troublesome sometimes to actually herd them into a group when everyone is doing their own thing. Since spear is so direct and volfus like to suddenly jump at times, you can expect quite a few misses.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-06 06:52, Gen2000 wrote:

Have you seen and compared the damage 3rd Spear PA for yourself? I don't really like it either but that's how it is, I especially noticed with the Spear PA because I used it a lot and the damage difference of Combo 3 compared to Combo 1 and 2 is noticable.



I finally got Dus Daggas 21 last night. 3 hits and 3 targets is the best I've gotten, for only a little less damage/hit as the first step. By my counting that's 150% base if there are only 1 or 2 mobs to hit, 225% if you catch a third. That kind of per-attack damage advantage (plus the knockdown) sounds like a pwn to me. If fG's want to feel big about their damage compared to PT maybe they should stick to guns, no surprise IMO.

When you get it out that is. The middle step in the combo doesn't have a strong enough flinch to guarantee you're not interrupted, solo at least.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-07 08:42 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Research note: you run into Crown Ollakas quite a bit in Demons Above S. They seem to take statuses normally so the Crown alone has no effect on status resistance. Maybe it's the Shield modifier that blocks normal SE's?

[-_Tao_-]

I am finialy getting diluted in wepons. I tryed to stay away from it, but as the new weapons got cheaper and cheaper/ sometimes givin to me I decided to give them a try. Then I had to go fetch the photon art for the wep. Now I am all over the map with what I want to do.I think you got to make some decisions.... some tuff ones. But what kinda pr0transer do I want to be. What is my specialty. If you dont stay focused... and your all over the board, you become diluted and useless. Your traps are not going tobe able to carry you threw all the time, exspecialy when S rank comes out.

Stay focused and level your skills/bullets

Human Pr0transer level 60/9

30 pistol freeze shot
30 arrow freeze shot
30 rising strike
28 arrow fire shot
30 spear pa

and a BUNCH of crap....

stay focused

[Zato-2TWO]

I dunno, I feel as though I'm going to be using traps even once all the new content is released (Virus Grenade...*swoon*). If anything, traps are what make me useful in an S-rank run (ask anyone who's partied with me =P). Nothing like getting to the last room of Lab S and having a whole lotta Virus (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Zato-2TWO/psu20070108_113527_000.jpg) to share.

But I think I'm going to specialize as an SE Protranser. It's really fun to just go around and bomb everything with status effects (anyone who's done Mizu S with me knows I'm prone to charging headlong into a trio of Olgohmons to lay out a Silence G trap). I'm glad to know I'm getting exactly what I wanted out of the Protranser class...except that I still can't use cannons or launchers yet =O.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zato-2TWO on 2007-01-08 10:00 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zato-2TWO on 2007-01-08 10:01 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Hmm.

All my melee PA's except Saber are level 21+ ... it was dedicated effort for Sword and Knuckle to make sure they leveled first. Spear ended up there on its own much later, from use as rapid damage output on large mobs. I use sword so much in everyday combat it's nearly level 30 now despite trying to level every other form of attack more. I actually don't know how I would get by without it.

The most important level 21 shots to me were fire on bow & ice on shotgun, but I'm glad I put the work in to make sure all the rest were at least level 11... they can keep up in difficult missions when elements are in their favor, and eventually they'll hit level 21 if runs that need them become really popular.

I'm starting to feel that I won't be putting much work in on Lightning Bow and Earth Shotgun... the thing I usually want to do when silencing a caster is chase them down, and bows aren't effective at scattering statuses on small mobs as is the usual way Paralysis is used.

I'm not putting any effort into leveling my new Laser Cannon PA's at all. The weapon still does pretty crazy damage just through how many targets it can strafe at once. Grenade bullets I bought just for the sake of having them... I practice 'em when it's convenient to do so, but use the weapon with no skill linked in hard missions to reduce ATA penalty and make it more efficient for knocking mobs down. The built-in special effect is good enough for me.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-08 07:42, panzer_unit wrote:
Research note: you run into Crown Ollakas quite a bit in Demons Above S. They seem to take statuses normally so the Crown alone has no effect on status resistance. Maybe it's the Shield modifier that blocks normal SE's?



It's the "cane" I would expect

[SolomonGrundy]

double post http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-10 10:35 ]</font>

[60Hz]

Great Guide! Here's my 2 cents...

Loving Traps my self... almost level 6 Protrans... I use all types of traps, normal and G. I focus on tickers tho, but want to experiment with others, especially confuse.

I use normal Traps on single lone enemies that pose a big threat, and Trap G's on clusters. Favorite is Virus, then poison (tho it seems i should start using burn more). Silence seems useless, Shock looks great but it's effects were weak last time i used it... Sleep? usless???? maybe in G form its worth something...

Shotgun is my favorite weapon nowadays because of its versatility - far away i can SE something and up close i deal 5* the damage (right now i'm hitting for about 400 to 500 a pop w/ status effect). I dont even use melee weapons anymore.

Bows are my secondary for long range encounters, like jarbas, where i need enough room to maneuver.

Rarely i'll whip out the knuckles or the pike (usually when all my pp is gone).

One trick i find (and this was probably noted already) is to use virus then follow up with a high percentage freeze attack (bow most likely or a ranger buddy support ya). Freeze the Jarba (or whatever) while the Virus eats it from the insides... it's kinda sad in a way... but highly effective! Try it!

[panzer_unit]

It's the shield for status resistance. Valley of Carnage: lots of Vandas with just shield... I can't status 'em at all with my bow (regular vandas only need SE2, if that, so it's gotta be a resistance instead of a SE level requirement increase too)

60Hz: hi!

Personally I just carry stacks of Virus G for killing leader mobs or sticking a DOT to multiple large mobs rather than taking the time to start burns on each with my bow. Didn't find the disabling statuses lasted long enough to be worthwhile, and Damage G only does a puny 250 damage/target.

[Cav]

"Damage G only does a puny 250dmg/target"

It also knocks down enemies, but that's only really useful for those big spikey mobs since blocking their spikes interrupts knock over PAs so much it gets annoying.

[panzer_unit]

Saber (I think), grenade, and axe. We've got no shortage of fast knockdowns.

Maybe damage traps might be good against Polhorvas, who seem totally resistant to being knocked down at S rank? I don't know if it's worth using even if its true, but it would be useful data.

[Zato-2TWO]

In parties you can make use of a lot of G traps that seems useless otherwise.

If you need to buy your allies a few seconds, lay down a Damage G and knock everyone down. Powerful enemies eating away the party's HP and driving your techers crazy from healing? Shock Trap G. Cluster of Olgohmons tearing up your Beast Fortefighters with waves of Barta? Silence G.

I've yet to find uses for the Sleep Trap, since it only lasts for one hit. I could imagine uses for it while soloing (setting up for a more potent trap), but in parties the combat gets rather chaotic, and your trap usually wears off after a stray AOE lands in your space.

[60Hz]

I saw the Virus/Burn/Poison info earlier how they tick according to the percentage of the enemies total hp. I had actually thought this was the fact, but are those percentages effected by your level? (class or character) and do Protransers get a bonus to the percentage? I know we get bonuses but what does it all mean... bonus to what i guess is my question...

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-10 12:22, Zato-2TWO wrote:
In parties you can make use of a lot of G traps that seems useless otherwise.


Confusion is a good multi-purpose status trap. You can tell because it's not one of the statuses we didn't start with access to. Making monsters attack eachother deals with everything... positioning, their attacking etc. and beating on them doesn't break the effect.

I've been told sleep lasts a while if you leave the mob alone. Even after the skills update Sleep's the one status we can't just drop on a bow or shotgun and do ourselves.

60Hz: the one thing I think we get on traps is the ability to put statuses on monsters who get the Shield upgrade. They're immune otherwise. You'll always need traps if you want to seriously mess with those guys (they take half damage and often hit a lot harder as well) ... though a well placed grenade or tornado break will always buy time for your teammate in a pinch.

[Cav]

On 2007-01-10 11:39, panzer_unit wrote:
Saber (I think), grenade, and axe. We've got no shortage of fast knockdowns.

Maybe damage traps might be good against Polhorvas, who seem totally resistant to being knocked down at S rank? I don't know if it's worth using even if its true, but it would be useful data.



Out of all of those only grenade hits more than 2 enemies and it isn't instant, but besides I said it wasn't really good except for the Kog Nogjkdljslkjf spikey things that interrupt alot with the spike damage aura thing.

[SolomonGrundy]

Confusion is a good multi-purpose status trap. [snip]


Are ProTransers the only ones who get confuse traps? :-/


60Hz: the one thing I think we get on traps is the ability to put statuses on monsters who get the Shield upgrade.

Don't spells take them down pretty quick? not via SE, but via pure damage? (I know they take redcued melee damage.)

[panzer_unit]

ForteGunners get all the same traps we do. They have something less than a 100%-even-to-leaders apply rate tho.

I'm not sure about those shield mobs, I don't cast spells. What I do know is that they always live long enough for the virus SE to do its full damage... nobody's out-pacing them badly enough to make them a waste that I've seen.

[biggabertha]

it's interesting to see the game's description that Protransers have more powerful traps but other than guaranteed status effects, do the status effects actually become stronger themselves or are they just more accurate?

For example, Burn traps deal something like 2% of the total HP a creature has, is this a higher number for Protransers or do we, as Protransers are just able to hit anything with our traps? (Anyone fancy trying it on a boss when they hit Lv 10 Protranser?)

Does anyone have access to a Fortegunner and a Protranser so we can compare the damage from a damage trap? If there is any at all? Or is it affected by some of your statistics (such as your base ATP)?

[Cav]

Sadly, traps do not hit boss mobs (mobs with cutscenes) although 5k virus trap tick would be amusing <.< it'd be too easy. Kill any boss in 64 seconds lol.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cav on 2007-01-10 20:58 ]</font>

[AC9breaker]

One thing people have failed to mention is that Protransers have the ability to land a SE 3/4 with the regular 100 meseta traps.

[panzer_unit]

Guys I wouldn't mind any impressions of the new PA's coming out on friday... especially when people get up to lv11. I'm working on a new section covering melee options.

Sword / Tornado Break - excellent crowd control with a long flinch lock-down and then knockback if you need it. Solo, I go for regular hits until I need to stop someone from hitting me, then bust out the full Tornado Break PA. It's more damage for PP spent than half-assing it and buys time to deal with additional mobs or just standing there to regen some PP while the guys you owned walk back. Teamed up, I tend to leave the third hit out unless I'm deliberately scattering a pack (usually on the defensive for another character).

Spear / Dus Daggas - Pure damage output. Line up two strike points on a large creature and spam out the first two PA moves constantly for what looks like the best damage output. The crowd-clearing move at the end is too slow to come out, easily interrupted, and takes too long to do. Not worthwhile if you've got Bogga Danga 11 or Tornado Break 21.

Knuckles / Bogga Danga - Knuckles are a great all-around melee weapon. The first two attacks are like the Cole's Notes version of Tornado break. Flinches and then knockback, just two targets. The last move is a challenge. You can either hit something at point blank for good damage and use the flip to reposition, or you can cartwheel and flip into a group of monsters to damage them all pretty bad. Of course you're really looking for a chance to do BOTH for the ultimate win. It's pretty easy to get full hits against large monsters, making it a substitute for Dus Daggas especially if the monster is only single-target.

Saber / Rising Strike - Good for crowd control, you can play it soft with single hits or hard with the PA combo. As your only one-handed melee weapon Saber doesn't have anything really competing with it. That said, I didn't use handgun-and-saber at all until I ran out of other Ice and Fire shots to work on :/

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-11 12:44 ]</font>

[_Deliverance_]

I imagine that sleep will come in handy later. There will come a time when you will not want a certain mob running around, while the group deals with another.

Food for thought.

[panzer_unit]

We'll see. I'd be more in favor of status traps if mobs hit harder and died faster. I guess if you're wearing like 50% Fire armor in VoC it would be really helpful to knock out those ice-based tiger things almost no matter how fast they die.

That responsibility would fall equally across all of a team's gunners however... PT characters should save (some of) their traps for leaders-types where it's the only way of getting a status out.

[panzer_unit]

I went to the JP wiki sites for stats on the new PA's. I'm willing to try everything else for myself, but someone's gonna have to sell me on the new Sword and Spear PA's... they look like underpowered or overpriced versions of Dus Daggas and Tornado Break respectively :[

While it would be nice on inventory space to use swords and spears as interchangable backup weapons, everything else is higher priority for now.

[Cav]

Spear aoe PA hits twice as many times(2-1-2 iirc) as tornado break, making it broken like twin daggers.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-12 11:50, panzer_unit wrote:
I went to the JP wiki sites for stats on the new PA's. I'm willing to try everything else for myself, but someone's gonna have to sell me on the new Sword and Spear PA's... they look like underpowered or overpriced versions of Dus Daggas and Tornado Break respectively :[

While it would be nice on inventory space to use swords and spears as interchangable backup weapons, everything else is higher priority for now.



The real benefit of the spear PA is the spear itself. Why use sword when you can use a spear for crowd control? Great for Wartechers (who don't get sword, and need more power than twin daggers provide.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-12 14:29, Cav wrote:
Spear aoe PA hits twice as many times(2-1-2 iirc) as tornado break, making it broken like twin daggers.



Yeah but it costs 26 per move with a weaker weapon and damage bonus, compared to 16 for sword.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-12 14:39, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-01-12 14:29, Cav wrote:
Spear aoe PA hits twice as many times(2-1-2 iirc) as tornado break, making it broken like twin daggers.



Yeah but it costs 26 per move with a weaker weapon and damage bonus, compared to 16 for sword.



Now imagine you are a wartecher ;-p

[Cav]

On 2007-01-12 14:39, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-01-12 14:29, Cav wrote:
Spear aoe PA hits twice as many times(2-1-2 iirc) as tornado break, making it broken like twin daggers.



Yeah but it costs 26 per move with a weaker weapon and damage bonus, compared to 16 for sword.



Weaker? spear has way more ATA for a slight ATP hit. at 30 it has 10% less ATP on the aoe PA than tornado break but hits twice as much. This is like a rehash of TW 6* weapons vs Non TW manufacturer 8*. Do you want power at cost of PP eating or lots of PP without near as much power.

[panzer_unit]

Maybe I'll have a look at it later. I'm maxed on PA's right now but there are still some I'm willing to un-learn.

I think I'm not going to level the basic axe PA, I get what I want from that move (safe one-hit knockdown on large mobs, e.g. fricking Koggs) from Bogga Zuppa and look awesome while I do it.

[panzer_unit]

Let's hear it for wierd exceptions!

Grenades won't knock over Polahorvas. Bogga Zuppa will.
Bogga Zuppa won't knock over Kamatoze. Grenades will.

also edited in Knuckles and Spears on weapons/tactics



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-16 13:24 ]</font>

[nooblet]

what level of PAs do protransers have?

[_Deliverance_]

30 melee and 30 bullets

[panzer_unit]

Over 9000!

... we can only level them to 30 on melee and range right now, however.

[biggabertha]

This is most likely deserving of it's own topic but since I'm a Protranser thinking carefully and planning ahead, I want to know if it's worth having a spear or a sword at all.

For instance, if you just have a Sword, you can have both Tornado Break and Spinning Break, one used for clearing, one for lots of damage. Same goes for the Spear, Dus Daggas if for damage and Dus Robaddo is for clearing. It's probably more worthwhile to have both Phton Arts for the Spear if you can't use swords but since Protransers can use swords, we should just have both sword ones right?

Or does the regular attacks come into the ordeal? Or is it going to be carry both, they both have their uses? I'd rather limit myself to one or the other as this will save some money on the later weapons and/or the Photon Arts for them.

panzer_unit, it's interesting to know that you do have pretty much all the bullet PAs aside from the grenade ones. What would you say is the one element to have? Or should I just pick one and be over with it? I'm more of a solo-ist than someone playing in teams but I want to stand out when I'm in a team. Dark bullets for that virus? Light for the confusion? Fire for the damage? Ice for the support? Would Plasma or Ground bullets really help out siince I've got a Shotgun to deal with that? Or is a Grenade launcher purely for knocking down enemies that can't normally be knocked down and it doesn't matter what bullets are in them at all?

[SolomonGrundy]

even though the fists knock Polahorvas over...they get *right back up - not enough time even to switch weapons for an a$$ kicking..

and the Fist PA is only a single move, right? (weird).


To answer your question biggabertha: For A rank weapons, I'd have to give the egde to spears. Even with a 26% light aligned sword, I find myself using spear PAs for the multiple hits. The area effect of a spear's Dus Duggas is narrow, but you can get things to line up.

Perhaps S rank weapons will change the equation...but I doubt it.

[Reiichi]

I hear some PT say that virus and poison stack, but it's always hard to tell from when that happens. Is this for real?

Are normal traps SE 3 or 4 when a PT uses them? They feel like SE 2 when other jobs use them.

Are G traps SE 3 or 4 when a PT uses them? Basically, does your Burn G do the same tick damage as your Virus G. If the answer is yes, then it is SE 4. Other jobs I know get SE 3.

Robado is expensive as hell especially for non fortefighters. Might be best to stick with swords for tornado break large scale AoE or scattering. You can also use the Jogiri (8* sword) for the random chance to poison.

[SolomonGrundy]

incidentally, poison is an earth based attack - not sure if this means it is easier to appliy to lightnigh creatures, but...yeah.

[panzer_unit]

biggabertha: personally I'm sticking with Sword + Tornado Break and Spear + Dus Daggas... the alternatives are an interesting option but IMO the PP cost is geared towards ForteFighter. The main advantage is that you don't have to carry as many swords/spears since you can use them interchangably for crowd control and DPS. If switching between identical weapon models with different PA's linked is lag-free, fast combos would be another advantage.

I don't use normal traps at all. Our Trap G's are SE4 I think.

Solomon: the new fist PA is only one move... but it's a really good one, PP cost and damage should be comparable to most weapons 2-hit PA combos IMO.

[Rizen]

I haven't posted here in a while, so I guess I will give you a little update on my Protranser.

When the patch came out, I quickly rushed to get Spinning break, Gravity Strike, and all of the other PAs I wanted. Must say I have fallen in love with the newer PAs. Only time I switch back to my old PAs is if Im doing speed runs or they are better for the situation.

Yesterday was a interesting day. Solo'd the last room of Lab S (quite fun and rather easy) and I got lv 59. So far nothing really interesting or new yet. Im 1 ATP away from using 9* Tenora Work weapons and 10 points away from using axe! C'mon!!!! Must...level!

[panzer_unit]

How's Spinning Break compare to Dus Daggas? Dus Robando vs Tornado Break? Really worth it?

I've got both the 9* Thunder Cannon and 9* Gur Missal thanks to a gunsmith friend. About 100ATP better than the 7*, really not much difference in PP. ATA seems to be the major gain.

My 6* +9 Tenora handgun is on par with the 9* GRM for attack power, not a lot worse for PP.

GJ soloing that Lab S fight!

[Rizen]

Well, My spinning break is only lv 20 (so close to 21 ><) compared to my lv 30 Dus Daggas, but I did use it offline.

Big advantage of Spinning Break over Dus Daggas is the mobility and flexibility . With Spinning Break, you can close distance on enemies very quickly, change angle of attack, and hop on to other enemies rather quickly. Also, enemies or the points of the enemy don't have to be linear to hit multiple targets with the first two combos (hits in an L shape but only hits 2 targets I believe). As far as damage, I am not sure because I havent been able to use 7* spear yet, so I cant compare a 5* Spear with a 7* Sword. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

My Dus Robando hasnt been leveled up yet so I have to get back to you later on that one.

My friend made me a Thunder Cannon yesterday. I havent gotten a chance to use it but I cant wait. I been using my 8* Launcher most of the time (Im a huge fan of grenade launcher, they are godly for making big enemies flinch, one reason I was able to solo Lab S).

[AC9breaker]

With normal Traps for Protranser I would have to say that they are SE 3/4 I usually get them off on the Big enemies in whatever dungeon. With G traps I'm going have to say that they are SE5. Since only our G traps can place a status effect on Shield buffed enemies.

Spinning Break Versus Dus Daggas, I'm giving the choice to Dus Daggas. My Spinning Break is level 15 and even though it can out damage my spear, My spear provides more hits at a faster rate. Like You said Panzer, it a much better choice for Fortefighter or Figunners. I still love Spinning Break and plan on maxing it out though. I'm with you on 1st axe PA. I'm totally skipping out on it and sticking to the 2nd art. As it is, we get alot of crowd slinging PA's, we really don't need anymore. Plus it adds something that we protransers need, POWAH!

One final note, I wanted to talk about my shotgun. I currently have the kubara shotgun Shigga Damduc at +8 Its about 76 Atk don't recall exactly. I also have a Shigga Brada. 100 Atk. I have a Shigga Bigul at +5. Now when I compared my Shigga Bigul to Shigga Damduc the difference in damage was definetly noticable. However comparing my Damduc to Brada damage seems pretty much even. Has anyone else noticed this discrepancy and maybe any hypothesis on why this is so?


For Grenede Launcher I would recommend Light Elemental definetly. It helped me out alot in the Hive and I can see it being useful once Hive is unlocked dealing with The sorcerers.

Also, I would add Earth Launcher. Helps in dealing with Robots. When you want to keep enemies stunned, just unequip the bullet.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-17 09:11, AC9breaker wrote:
With normal Traps for Protranser I would have to say that they are SE 3/4 I usually get them off on the Big enemies in whatever dungeon. With G traps I'm going have to say that they are SE5. Since only our G traps can place a status effect on Shield buffed enemies.

I think the difference for us is success rate instead of an additional SE level. Like normal Vandas only need SE2 to hit, but their shield guys won't take statuses from anything. You could have an earth weapon with SE>9000 and it wouldn't do a thing. SE2 with automatic success? Silenced.

I found a pretty noticable difference in damage before and after grinding my Shigga Stam to +6 too, it's only like 20 ATP. I think it has to do with how far clear you are versus enemy DFP.

[Rizen]

LIGHT LAUNCHER FOR THE FTW! I love it! In lab with the large group of wolves, you unload this and watch the mad chaos.

As for the shotty, I just got the 7* Shigga Boma (anyone notice the shotguns names are onomatopoeias?). Normally I had my 5* shotty (cant remember the grind on it) and I noticed a world of difference. My damage when from like 80 to 100~120ish a shot. My friend is making me a 9* one as we speak so I can give another observation after I get it.

I envy you Axe Protransers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif I will join you soon enough!

[Cav]

On 2007-01-17 09:26, Rizen wrote:
LIGHT LAUNCHER FOR THE FTW! I love it! In lab with the large group of wolves, you unload this and watch the mad chaos.

As for the shotty, I just got the 7* Shigga Boma (anyone notice the shotguns names are onomatopoeias?). Normally I had my 5* shotty (cant remember the grind on it) and I noticed a world of difference. My damage when from like 80 to 100~120ish a shot. My friend is making me a 9* one as we speak so I can give another observation after I get it.

I envy you Axe Protransers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif I will join you soon enough!



9* shotgun, 0 damage in hakura S (1 dmg crit!)700 ATP >.>; lvl 1 light bullet, I just found that amusing.

[SolomonGrundy]

panzer_unit: I'm having grouble understanding why the 2nd PAs for sword and spear are only for fortefighters? If they are more expensive in PP, and don't do that much than why buy them? They ain't cheap.

Also, how are people soloing S rank Endrum missions with PTs? I can barely solo Mad creatures in Parnum at level 48...and I DARE not bring my NPCs along as they would get tooled. Endrum has the megid jarbras, right?

hmmm- if Vandana's are silenced, they cannot diga, AND they cannot breathe fire? Becaude THAT would be great...

Sorry, and one final question: do you guys ahve a compelling reason to be Human rather than Cast as a Protranser? Maybe for crea weapons? Are true crea weapons S-rank?




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-17 17:15 ]</font>

[Rizen]

On 2007-01-17 15:25, Cav wrote:
9* shotgun, 0 damage in hakura S (1 dmg crit!)700 ATP >.>; lvl 1 light bullet, I just found that amusing.

Yep! XD Then again, my electric bullets are only level one...bet if I pump it up and can do a wooping 10 damage!

[60Hz]

Some Bruce's Dungeon PT Strategy
I carry Freeze Trap G's, Virus and Poison Trap G's as well as Virus Normal Trap.

I use virus normal trap on all shielded vandas and on the spikey creatures (sorry forget their name) as well as on bears. If it's a mob, i follow Virus with Freeze this keeps the chaos down and any virused creature gets eaten while ppl deal with the big guys...

I follow up all virused big guys with my freeze bow (level 20+) this will freeze a big guy with in 8 shots....

There is a 3 group of vanda's on b2 that only take 2 ppl to beat, i usually run past and drop a poison G on them. Letting the two heavy hitters deal the death with a little assistance.

Burn traps have a better tick rate but i can't stack a freeze on a burn victim so i've took them out. Sleep Traps were moderately useful (maybe we'll get the jp trap boosts soon) - sleeping bears is a good thing.

Freeze shotguns are the answer for me... i'm not doing much melee nowadays... i need to train my dark bullets one day when i stop looping bruce's dungeon for 70mpts in 15mins...

[biggabertha]

Thanks for the replies, I'll definitely consider what to do with the empty slots that I have left for Photon Arts now. Perhaps sacrificing some of the handgun bullets and Grenade bullets might be a good idea since the Shotgun, Bow and Laser are looking ot be fairly useful towards the end game. That instantly frees up eight to ten slots for Photon Arts.

Has anyone tried comparing trap damage with other classes of similar level/atp? Are Protranser Damage traps more powerful than any other trap user?


A Protranser is a hybrid class combining statistics of that of a RA and a HU so humans are naturally good at having balanced statistics. Casts may have more advantage over humans when it comes to raw damage output but taking magical damage or getting through the five FO levels would most likely be irritating for most. Almost the same thing for beasts I suppose. Newmans are interesting though, I would like to be able to make a Newman Protranser except that I can't stand their ears!

As for Spinning Break and Dus Robado, after seeing what they look like on YouTube, I think panzer_unit is right that if you have Tornado Break and Dus Daggas, you won't really need them. It seems that Spinning Break is supposed to be the equivalent of Dus Daggas and Dus RObado is the equivalent for Tornado Break.

Finally, the reason why as Protransers you don't use more expensive Photon Arts is because as Protransers, we rely a lot more on them than Fortefighters yet we don't get the faster PP regeneration. It would seem that Fortefighters will have a hard time deciding on which Photon Arts to get a hold of between the Spear and the Sword. Both have their advantages and both have their disadvantages. At least they won't be hitting the 36 Photon Art limit because if their lack of Bullets and TECHNICS though. (Then again, Ihave heard that there's going to be six Photon Arts for each weapon.... In which case, Fortefighters are going to get royally shafted.)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: biggabertha on 2007-01-17 19:18 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-17 17:02, SolomonGrundy wrote:
panzer_unit: I'm having grouble understanding why the 2nd PAs for sword and spear are only for fortefighters? If they are more expensive in PP, and don't do that much than why buy them? They ain't cheap.

Also, how are people soloing S rank Endrum missions with PTs?

Fortefighters get their PA's cheaper and their weapons refresh PP faster. It's a HUGE boost to how hard you can lean on melee PA's. A Protranser could of course carry a ton of melee weapons to provide enough PP I guess... but along with all the guns, the stacks of traps, mates, etc it doesn't leave much room for loot.

Really I see the value on those moves being that you can carry fewer swords/spears total, because you can convert spears to replace run-down swords if you're leaning heavily on sweeps, or convert swords to replace spears if you're leaning heavily on single target damage. Robando probably has better DPS than Tornado Break too, for times its really important.

As for soloing Lab S, I can totally see how a PT would do that... maybe even be the best class for it. We can't melee through packs of animals as quickly as a ForteFighter, but it's about equally easy... and between the virus traps and our bows Jarbas are something of a cakewalk.

EDIT: something I forgot... I put two Graters on my palette, one with Bogga Danga and the other with Bogga Zubba (I've been spelling it wrong the whole time lol) and the switch between them is totally lag-free. There's a glow, the photon color changes, done.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-18 11:45 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

Wow! great to know about the other Fist PA! I'm envisioning knocked over Go-Varhas!

That leaves my only question - was I right about humans and crea weapons? Human PTs can use crea, Non human PTs will nveer be able to use "true" crea Weapons becasue they are S-rank?

*that would be a reason to go Human PT.

[zanotam]

so um what weaposn would be good for a future protranser? I'm just raising the ranged REQ now, but i've heard swords and shotguns are good, but i'm not sure. I've go tmost of the bow PA's at lvl 10 when i was force.

[panzer_unit]

IDK how good Crea weapons are gonna be for a Human PT. They tend to have low ATP, which doesn't really help. I guess its as simple as having both a Seva Crea and a Seva Falsan and using the heavy hitter whenever there's only one target anyway.

As for what weapons you need? Know what all of 'em are best for. Your stats won't carry you through being lazy about tactics and weapon selection, play like a pro or die trying.

ANY INFO ABOUT EX TRAPS YET?! I stopped paying attention to the update thread a while ago.

[Cav]

On 2007-01-18 14:46, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Wow! great to know about the other Fist PA! I'm envisioning knocked over Go-Varhas!

That leaves my only question - was I right about humans and crea weapons? Human PTs can use crea, Non human PTs will nveer be able to use "true" crea Weapons becasue they are S-rank?

*that would be a reason to go Human PT.



Difference is normal crea are pretty bad, such an ATP hit for one extra mob hit. While true S rank creas have good stats. (PTs own enough anyway, don't need S ranks >.>)

[60Hz]

Bows and Shotguns... Shotguns are the power houses since at high PA levels (21+) they can shoot 5 bullets into one enemy resulting in 5x damage on top of 5x chance of status effect triggering - however the level of that effect is 2.

Bows i use for their status effect, 21+ freeze bow can freeze anything short of real bosses. I freeze the S mini boss in Relics, Jarbas, Bears, spikey guys etc... its a great crowd pleaser.

For both i would level Freeze PA, then Dark then Shock. White then Fire then Earth... White seems to be good for soloing, Fire's ticks are awesome but cant be stacked with Freeze like virus can (in otherwords, my favorite tactic is to freeze a virused enemy - especially big guys)... Earth seems horribly useless... the silence effect would help on Vandas and S Vandas tho... hmm maybe i should rething the priority on earth...

Axe looks to be my new weap (yep i can finally use one) - i need to level up the PA's and see whats what, but damage looks tasty enough as it - and hey they look nasty!

[panzer_unit]

Bows are great single-target damage too. I'm leveling all the PA's just to get that sweet 30% element bonus. I got Fire, Ice, Earth so far... working on Lightning. I use my bow for shutting things up, since I can get the status quickly (don't have to run up to the target) and from a safe distance (don't have to run up to the target) vs shotgun.

Honestly though: lasers and grenades are your best ranged weapons for damage dealt. Even hitting 2 creatures with my laser outdamages a shot from my bow, without considering the difference in skill levels (lv7 vs lv21+)... grenade versus large monsters is the same story, since you can spam shots and keep knocking the thing over instead of running all around to keep hitting like w/ small targets.

[AC9breaker]

I like to use grenedes on small targets if there is a wall I can corner them on.
I find myself switching between various weapons playing as protranser. There is no one KEY weapon as Protranser in my opinion. You either use them all or Hope that your body can take it.

[SolomonGrundy]

wrt crea weapons - you guys are missing the boat. even if the ATP is 20% lower, the extra target makes swords, spears, twin swords, clean out mobs.

Damage is only dependent on weapon atp as part of the equation. The rest of the equation is PA level, and element level.

I'd rather hit a crowd or boss for 200, 200, 200, 200, than 250, 250, 250.

And the good news is, you don't have to use them...nice to have the option though

Question for Panzer: does level 21+ Ground-element bow silence Jarbras?

[panzer_unit]

Sol: It's not the same relationship across all character classes though. PT's have pretty low built-in attack power so we count on weapon ATP really heavily... like even hitting an extra target per swing, Crea Saber might be cutting it pretty close with Seva Falsan for damage and that's before thinking about enemy DFP.

I tried a number of Silence Traps when Lab S was getting popular and I don't remember them having an effect... I doubt Jarbas can be silenced, especially considering how they'd be screwed if you could.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-19 11:43, panzer_unit wrote:
Sol: It's not the same relationship across all character classes though. PT's have pretty low built-in attack power so we count on weapon ATP really heavily... like even hitting an extra target per swing, Crea Saber might be cutting it pretty close with Seva Falsan for damage and that's before thinking about enemy DFP.


I'm going to "help" (Ima number cruncher, so if I get annoying, stop me...)
Damage Formula:
Damage = 1.5^CH * 0.2 * 0.5^Guard ((PAM * AEM * Attack - random(0,variance) - DEM * Defense))

Assume no crit, a non melee resistant enemy, and we'll use an unground, level 30 rising strike, 25% element weapon, and ignore variance, and assume DEF =20. ATP will be 300 for our purposes

Seva Falsan
DMG = .2*(1.6*1.3*876-20)
DMG = ~360

Crea Saber
DMG = .2*(1.6*1.3*543-20)
DMG = ~222


So, at 2 hits vs 3, the Seva Falsan wins (less PP though) 720 vs 666 damage. Still the effect of slapping one extra Vandana to the ground should not be over looked.



I tried a number of Silence Traps when Lab S was getting popular and I don't remember them having an effect... I doubt Jarbas can be silenced, especially considering how they'd be screwed if you could.

darn it! Will ANYTHING ever shut those stupid Jarbas up?





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-19 12:25 ]</font>

[TUSCAN]

may as well join the discussion, seeing as I've been reading this post ever since it was first posted.

Dus Robando vs. Tornado Break: Dus Robando hands down. knockback is overrated and Robando hits twice on the second combo.
I don't enjoy swinging the sword normally, it's too slow. also, robando will cost less to use eventually. spear is just the better of the two, I'll use the axe for the big damage.

Knuckles are awesome but I'm saving them for my 'after everything else 'weapon

Saber & Pistol are totally underreatd. they're great for non-stop hits because you can move in quite quickly while strafing and once you're in range let loose with a saber PA, back off while strafe shooting and reposition, ect.

haven't tried axe yet, spent all my money on ranged weapons.

Shotguns are awesome. I'm currently trying to synth a nine star shotty, and I'm 0 for 2. it has a little of everything. great ranged coverage, good quality status effects, unreal point blank damage and 5 times the chance for a critical. but everyone already knows that. reccomended bullet art: all of them

Bows are my bread and butter. my +6 alteric does great damage, and the status effects save me alot on traps. get into position early and you can cover every mob that spawns. every protranser should level bow skills first, for they will help the party the most. status, damage, flying bosses, accurate, awesome! reccomended bullet art: all of them

Lasers are great for soloing. this gun is a vanda killier. can't wait to get a degahna cannon (sp?). also, people sell seven star lasers for dirt cheap because they either pick them up in the lab or don't realize you have to sneak around into position to use them effectively. reccomended bullet art: Fire & Ice, then Light & Dark

Grenades are so fun, but like every protranser weapon, they're situational. great for buying time while soloing, and obviously great for big baddies like the Kog Nadd. they're basically made exclusively for Kog Nadd's, or Drue whatevers, but like I said, they can really help clear a path in a pinch. and it's alot of fun cornering humanoid enemies. reccomended photon art: Light & Dark

as for traps, regulars get no love it seems, but I get alot of mileage out of them. bows on the little guys and traps on the big guys. works great. Trap G's are awesome when something like three tengogh's spawn. I had so many 'wtf was that' and 'that was awesome' comments before people got used to seeing light & dark status effects from ranged characters. I literally blew peoples minds with virus G's on Omnagoug S for the longest time. one time I joined a party and one ranger said in a very snotty tone 'you're a human protranser?' and then when the tengogh's spawned he was wondering how they all had gotten poisoned and I took much joy in replying with 'by the human protranser!' he didn't say anything at all after that.

best status combo: Ice & Virus, maybe with a little poision thrown in. I learnt that from Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance.

[panzer_unit]

SE4 Freeze shuts up Jarbas pretty good so long as people don't run up and break it. You'll see a lot more of that now that everyone's rocking Infect as their DOT. Doesn't prevent Freeze from proccing and also lasts longer to allow more time spent shooting ice.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-19 12:43, panzer_unit wrote:
SE4 Freeze shuts up Jarbas pretty good so long as people don't run up and break it. You'll see a lot more of that now that everyone's rocking Infect as their DOT. Doesn't prevent Freeze from proccing and also lasts longer to allow more time spent shooting ice.


Have you tried confuse? *evil grin*

[shewby]

On 2007-01-19 12:43, panzer_unit wrote:
SE4 Freeze shuts up Jarbas pretty good so long as people don't run up and break it. You'll see a lot more of that now that everyone's rocking Infect as their DOT. Doesn't prevent Freeze from proccing and also lasts longer to allow more time spent shooting ice.

Finally, someone who understands that. I kindly ask rangers to use their dark or ice, either way I have the other, and they insist on buring everything. Needless to say, Bil punches me in the mouth shortly after.

I'm too lazy to look through all 10 pages of this, but has anyone reached 70/10 protranser? Or at least 60+/10? I'm interested in switching, but I'd like to know the classes general full potential stats.

[SolomonGrundy]

I'm too lazy to look through all 10 pages of this, but has anyone reached 70/10 protranser? Or at least 60+/10? I'm interested in switching, but I'd like to know the classes general full potential stats.



Here are the classes 60/10 stats for all races:
http://i10.tinypic.com/2ik8r4k.jpg

Humans don't seem 1/2 bad to me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ShinMaruku]

Seems like they all go fine...

[shewby]

thanks

ugh such low atp



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: shewby on 2007-01-19 19:35 ]</font>

[60Hz]

Ok Tuscan: I love normal traps too, alot of ppl dont seem to think they are worth the time... weird... if you got mobs of some strong creature then yes G's are the way, but if it's one tengoh,jarba, spikey guy, bear etc... use one normal trap - save dough! the effect seems the same...

On the melee side: Axes are my new love! I love'em! Plus they PA level quickly! Wielding axe makes me want to go back to my sword...

I've tried the grenades and the lasers they just dont have the versatility of a shotgun from my point. It's easier to hit mobs with a shotty and you can then close in and get 5x the damage plus 5x the chance of the SE occuring... If grenades would hit up close i would use them more, i will be investigating the more after i've levelled my shotty PA's (ICE at 30 now YES!)...

Fire has become the step child PA i think with Virus replacing it since Virus can be stacked with freeze!

I'm loving be a protrans, we are very helpful (tho very complicated) in S-ranks and Bruce... i got Bruce down now to a science...

Trapaholics Anonymous!

Some was asking about Ex-traps any info on this outthere?

[Talomis]

Just wondering how well we solo S rank mission as higher level protransers. I'm trying to decide between my protranser or fortetecher for my main, and just wanting some of the higher level protransers input. I know fortetecher can heal and their spells are damaging and have almost the same SE(Burn, Freeze etc), but do protransers even come close? I cant seem to help thinking that the amount of SE's protransers can dish out in a short amount of time would make them awesome for soloing S rank missions coupled with their nice damage and high crit rate, just wanting some input from other fellow protransers. Thanks!

[_Deliverance_]

PT at level 29! XD
410hp 140atp 47ata(lol) 30dfp
I'm dispairingly weak atm. 3* melee/handgun and 2* bow/shotty(1 or 2 ata under 3*, so 1 character level will fix that) It's ok though. Grind 'em up to 5 or 6 and you're rockin. The best armor that I can wear that has an arm slot is Zeetline. I could go higher with a Yohmei model, but I'd feel naked without my ata arm units.

I knew it was going to be difficult going to PT at such a low level, but Bruce C is a snap. So long as I have smart people in the group, it should be np. I'm hoping for rank two by the time I start hitting mizuraki S. In the mean time, I'm going to focus on skilling my knuckle/saber/shotty skills. I'm thinking that those are going to be my bread n' butter until axe becomes available.

[AC9breaker]

I just wanted to share my trap combo with other Trappers. Burn and Sleep = OVER 9000

[Rizen]

SO THAT WHAT YOU WHO WAS BURNING DOWN MY HOUSE WHEN I WAS SLEEPING?! DAMN YOU! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I just wanted to share that...I GOT PROTRANSER 8! HELL YA! FINALLY!
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Phantasy%20Start%20Universe%20Online%20Pics/Psu2007-01-2017-08-39-48.png

And guess what...? AXE BABY!
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Phantasy%20Start%20Universe%20Online%20Pics/Psu2007-01-2017-08-24-23.png
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k54/RizenForce/Phantasy%20Start%20Universe%20Online%20Pics/Psu2007-01-2017-08-29-90.png

Pretty much I was going to be using Axe one way or another. Human males will be able to use Axe at 60/8 or 61/7 so I was a race to see which one will be gotten first.

I really dont see why Axe gets a bad rep. Its great! And I love it! Maybe its because of the speed? Or is it because Protranser appreicate weapons more since we have to work hard for them? I dunno. Anga Redda is a great PA, Im glad I got it. XD I havent tried out the other one yet, but I have it on my PA list....

Just for all you new and upcoming Protransers...Dont give up! Theres hope! Keep at it! You can win!

PROTRANSERS UNITE! (http://protranser.youaremighty.com/)!

[AC9breaker]

Aww Man, you beat me to it. I'm 3 atp shy to using my Axe. level 61. I either use it at 61/6 PT or 62/5 PT

[Rizen]

Score 1 for Humans!

[_Deliverance_]

lol Rizen ^_^

[panzer_unit]

Awesome, Riz. I'm gonna hit my level/rank for axe tonight I think.

Burn/Sleep eh? Does Virus/Sleep stack?

[Rizen]

I tried Virus and Sleep and it didnt work...Freeze and Virus works.

But seriously, we protranser need to get together and make a kick ass video to build our population. Whos in for it!?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-01-21 18:17 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I may be in for it when my female newman former Guntecher turns into a Protranser, just 3 mroe Hunter levels and 2 more Force levels and Im good to go.

[SolRiver]

On 2007-01-21 17:43, Rizen wrote:
I tried Virus and Sleep and it didnt work...Freeze and Virus works.

But seriously, we protranser need to get together and make a kick ass video to build our population. Whos in for it!?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-01-21 18:17 ]</font>


I certainly wouldn't mind helping the cause to infect the entire PSU community with PT virus.

[ShinMaruku]

Out of sheer bordem I think I might make a newman prtranser. Any advice from you guys (I know it would sound insane but I am indeed insane)

[panzer_unit]

... stockpile Ritalin. You'll need it to deal with the grind your newm needs to make to get good melee weapons available. Alternately, roll a human for it. Human PT's get really competitive stats. The race bonus means a LOT when the class stat modifiers are so low.

EDIT: if you're gonna do a demo, Riz it totally has to be with that All Your Base song.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-22 07:05 ]</font>

[ShinMaruku]

I survived Nightmare DMD this should be lighter.

[AC9breaker]

Riz, we gotta get to work sometime on that video we planned!

[Keiya]

My fortegunner is preparing me for Protransor at present. I'm laying traps only for big mobs like Svaltus/Tengoh/Kog Nadds. I'm only really using Virus and Virus G, though -_- I'm big on the dmg tick rate +added elemental damage from my currently unleveled rifle bullets. I plan to explore with the other traps but a friend tells me most of them suck pretty hard, even with added proficiency as a protransor, it's best to simply proc SE on enemies from leveled bullets instead of bothering with running up, getting crit, and wasting precious precious scapedolls.

I'm not a huge fan of the shotgun so I don't have any intention of using that very soon -_- And I'm almost pretty much settled on rolling a Human F protransor.


As far as weapons are concerned: Grinded elemental low ranks ftw? I already synthed a 22% dark and a 28% light Flourecent Bulb which I plan to put at +5
Kubara weapons will be my friend here, thankfully >.< If only my 99x Kubara wood hadn't been haxed away......
I also am farming for Crea weapons to give my Protransor an added boost. I've already got a Seva Cresa and now I'm just searching for Creasaud (Are there any Crea Knux btw?)

[Ultra]

I'm currently working on a new HU Female PT too. Only at Lvl 3 Hunter and still need the others...so it may be a while. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[AC9breaker]

SE4 Bullets can't effect Shield buffed enemies. Also, as fast and nice as Rifle Bullet arts are, they're limited when compared to Traps. Rifles have Virus,confuse,silence,shock,freeze,burn. A nice palette already but do you really want to carry around 5 rifles in your quick Select? Or have to go into your menu and rearrange your palette to use the 6th rifle you had set-up?

The item select gives you the option of 6 items. I usually have 4 Traps types arranged and either a healing item and Sol Atomizer or two healing items. Depends what I'm doing. Including the effect you're probably already gonna have on your bow, thats 5 options.

Protranser is about choices and versatility. Any race can be an extroidinary Protranser as long as they play to the Jobs strength. Which is tactical Versatility. Also, Its not that hard to run to a monster and trap them and NOT get hit. In fact, i find exciting at times running into crowds of mobs and carpet bombing them. I'm sure you know this already by now with your experiences in traps. Also,With G traps you dont even have to run up to them, make them come to the trap. Besides at Rank 10 PT has the 3rd highest HP, so you can take a hit and expect to still not be seeing red.

[Keiya]

On 2007-01-22 15:00, AC9breaker wrote:
SE4 Bullets can't effect Shield buffed enemies. Also, as fast and nice as Rifle Bullet arts are, they're limited when compared to Traps. Rifles have Virus,confuse,silence,shock,freeze,burn. A nice palette already but do you really want to carry around 5 rifles in your quick Select? Or have to go into your menu and rearrange your palette to use the 6th rifle you had set-up?

The item select gives you the option of 6 items. I usually have 4 Traps types arranged and either a healing item and Sol Atomizer or two healing items. Depends what I'm doing. Including the effect you're probably already gonna have on your bow, thats 5 options.

Protranser is about choices and versatility. Any race can be an extroidinary Protranser as long as they play to the Jobs strength. Which is tactical Versatility. Also, Its not that hard to run to a monster and trap them and NOT get hit. In fact, i find exciting at times running into crowds of mobs and carpet bombing them. I'm sure you know this already by now with your experiences in traps. Also,With G traps you dont even have to run up to them, make them come to the trap. Besides at Rank 10 PT has the 3rd highest HP, so you can take a hit and expect to still not be seeing red.


All of this I know-and for the record, I do in fact have either a pallete of all rifles, all launchers, or three of each linked to a different element.

And SE4 bullets don't stick to sheilded enemies?
That's something I've never noticed. I still take em down. But if I'm doing that on S, I'll be sure not to waste ammo and drop a G.

Traps are REALLY REALLY REALLY fun, yes. >.< Even on my Fortegunner, I just love the suspense of sticking mobs with traps.

[ShinMaruku]

Anybody has any units to help their stats or they are just goin raw?

[Keiya]

Lol not raw at all. I'm going for mostly Mega/Knight. However I'll most likely not need it. Seeing as how I'll be soloing B and C ranks until PT 4 XD

[ShinMaruku]

I use units to as I have a newman and any help would work nicly.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-22 15:43, ShinMaruku wrote:
Anybody has any units to help their stats or they are just goin raw?



we use protection http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Keiya]

My suggestion on units would be defense. I prefer lasting power over a slight increase in attack strength, but that's just me.

[AC9breaker]

If I wasn't a Cast I would go for Evasion since our Defense sucks. =(

Also, I guess I'm too used to using a variety of different weapons as a Protranser rather then just having various different elements of the same weapons. But then again, I guess its just my play style. Back when I was a Ranger, I use to carry rifle, shotgun,spear, dual pistols, and a mechgun and saber combo.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2007-01-22 06:59, panzer_unit wrote:
... stockpile Ritalin. You'll need it to deal with the grind your newm needs to make to get good melee weapons available. Alternately, roll a human for it. Human PT's get really competitive stats. The race bonus means a LOT when the class stat modifiers are so low.

EDIT: if you're gonna do a demo, Riz it totally has to be with that All Your Base song.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-22 07:05 ]</font>


well, newmans may be the last to use that axe, but at least they're the first of the fleshies to use the grenade launchers and such. I'll need some ritalin too cuz my newman may also be going protranser if I don't decide to make her a fighgunner.

[ShinMaruku]

If they get launchers first I'm good to go. Would be worth it. And rather silly looking... :E

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-22 18:25, Shiroryuu wrote:
well, newmans may be the last to use that axe, but at least they're the first of the fleshies to use the grenade launchers and such.


Like I said elsewhere, it's not just about getting axes* ... you're going to be waiting longer to meet requirements on every sort of melee weapon as you go along. It's probably not horrible, you'll get access to 6*'s somewhere in the mid-ranks and by grinding those aggressively you'll earn equality with A-tier stuff. Newm females might have to wait until rank 6 for 'em though, which really wouldn't be fun.

Grenade, Sword, Axe, Bow, Shotgun, and Laser is my usual starting palette now... for consumables I've got stars, sols, trimate, antimate, virus G, and confusion G.

I tweak elements on the bow and shotgun based on what other rangers are doing, to help cover all the good statuses/elements in an area. I might swap something for a second axe, knuckle, or bow with a different skill linked... so I can switch quickly between those for better PA availablility and going between tagging DOT and dealing element damage.

[TUSCAN]

Panzer: I don't understand why you set up your consumable palette the way you do. obviously you're taking alot of damage trying to be a hunter, seeing as you're using three spots for healing items. I'd reccomend you spend more time on the bow because status is the protransers biggest asset. our melee ability is mostly for clean-up, so set your traps, inflict your status and maybe then, if need be, move in behind for a few good swats. spear owns swords, btw, and I think that might be why you're forced to use so many mates. swords make you take damage.
bows are the best for consistant damage, and on bosses we move ahead of nearly everybody in the damage dealt department because of them. I consistantly out damage most rangers because I have them and use them wisely. always have two. one on ice and one on whatever element the level calls for.
I'd suggest you set your palette to virus trap, poison trap, virus G trap, poison G trap, damage G trap/freeze G trap or star, trimate. all status traps are easily replaceable by the bow. confusion is near useless if there are hunters in the party, and besides, they don't last long at all and the damage enemies inflict on themselves is paltry compared to a virus/poison stack.
grenades, lasers and heavy melee are situational. two bows, spear, pistol/saber and shotty are always useful. spear and saber/pistol allow you to be able to move and the bow/shotty combo allow you to control the enemies attention.
but hey, this is just me, I don't know what kind of crew you roll with and what roles you need to fill on a regular basis. review your trap useage though. regular traps mean less melee and less mates and more status via bow/shotty.

[panzer_unit]

I'm pretty good when it comes to melee, so the stars and sols are actually for other people... I'll be a healer on top of everything else when the chips are down just because that's how high I roll.

All I use traps for are statuses against leaders. I have yet to see a mission where there are more of those dudes than I can cover with a stack of Virus G. Everyone else eats bow or shotgun for their statuses.

The confuse traps are IMO the best status for effectiveness, supposing you're not trying to drop 'em when you have teammates in melee and the mobs will keep targeting them. When they work, they do as good a job as sleep or freeze for taking monsters out of the action... plus some damage & knockdown done by friendly hits... and even when the effect ends they've got to turn around and wander back to the team, etc.

[AC9breaker]

I concur, confuse traps are really king. They are especially useful on S rank Vandas who seem to always spawn in close fomations and spam their fire breath consistantly. Only traps I think are useless are Shock, and Poison.

Also I would have to disagree with Sword. The advantage of Tornado break is its range. Spinning Break is much too slow, and leaves you open. Although it is much stronger, it is much more suited to a real Melee damage dealing class. Tornado Break has proven to be invaluable in Bruce runs taking out the Kog Nads while also stopping vandas from moving. Especially with a Dark elemental sword.

[panzer_unit]

Word to Tornado Break. I don't take much damage when I'm using a sword (against typical monsters) because I can pop out a couple 360-degree hits with stagger when I need to keep something off my back. I try and squeeze out regular sword hits whenever possible since it's a good chunk of free damage to tag 2-3 targets with the normal swing.

[ShinMaruku]

Like I said elsewhere, it's not just about getting axes* ... you're going to be waiting longer to meet requirements on every sort of melee weapon as you go along. It's probably not horrible, you'll get access to 6*'s somewhere in the mid-ranks and by grinding those aggressively you'll earn equality with A-tier stuff. Newm females might have to wait until rank 6 for 'em though, which really wouldn't be fun.

Grenade, Sword, Axe, Bow, Shotgun, and Laser is my usual starting palette now... for consumables I've got stars, sols, trimate, antimate, virus G, and confusion G.

I tweak elements on the bow and shotgun based on what other rangers are doing, to help cover all the good statuses/elements in an area. I might swap something for a second axe, knuckle, or bow with a different skill linked... so I can switch quickly between those for better PA availablility and going between tagging DOT and dealing element damage.


All I'm worried about with my newearl is when I'd be getting that launcher. I can hold a bit back on the axe for a while. If I can get it at a reasonable time I cna go for it. If I'm lucky some units would help me too.

[60Hz]

Been playing around with silent traps on vandas... i'm not 100% sure but it does seem to stop their foie spray, diga is stopped... i have to explore more... this may be helpful for A Bruce runs mostly, but i do silent on B runs as well...

I find myself using about 6 trap types... haveing to swap them into the palette at certain times during my bruce runs...

Burn G, Virus and Virus G, Poision G, Freeze G and Silence G.

Fave combos: Poison or Virus and Freeze

That Burn and Sleep sounds awesome tho...

[HFlowen]

On 2007-01-22 15:00, AC9breaker wrote:
SE4 Bullets can't effect Shield buffed enemies.

I don't believe that is true.

[AC9breaker]

You don't have to believe for something to be a fact.

The thing about burn & sleep combo is that it requires some team coordination. You don't want teammates waking up your sleeping bear.

[Chachamaru]

Hey there everyone, new to the forums, not quite to PSU. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif When I saw the tidbit about what shields effects, I was so excited I immedietly went to show off the news to my clanmates. Actually it made perfect sense to me becaue I couldn't for the life of me place a SE on a shield/sworded Vandal (sp) on Moatoob with my Bow and couldn't figure out why.

Though unfortunatly the theory got shot down extremely quickly, one of my Fortegunner friends went to Neudiez and set a shielded Gohmon on fire with her SE3 rifle (though got owned in the process. XD;;)

Links Removed!

I'm using my friends bandwidth, so Panzer the moment you see this let me know so I can remove the link. Mechhisui think there may be something else involved in the difficulty of placing SEs on shielded mobs for PRO's. I unfortunatly can't test it myself yet, as I'm still at work to see if it really is PRO specific problem. Maybe someone else can try it out.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chachamaru on 2007-01-25 13:25 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-23 17:40, Chachamaru wrote:
Hey there everyone, new to the forums, not quite to PSU. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif When I saw the tidbit about what shields effects, I was so excited I immedietly went to show off the news to my clanmates. Actually it made perfect sense to me becaue I couldn't for the life of me place a SE on a shield/sworded Vandal (sp) on Moatoob with my Bow and couldn't figure out why.

Though unfortunatly the theory got shot down extremely quickly, one of my Fortegunner friends went to Neudiez and set a shielded Gohmon on fire with her SE3 rifle (though got owned in the process. XD;;)

http://faito.net/psu/burningshot_1.jpg http://faito.net/psu/burningshot_2.jpg

I'm using my friends bandwidth, so Panzer the moment you see this let me know so I can remove the link. Mechhisui think there may be something else involved in the difficulty of placing SEs on shielded mobs for PRO's. I unfortunatly can't test it myself yet, as I'm still at work to see if it really is PRO specific problem. Maybe someone else can try it out.



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Holy crap!
You, sir or ma'am, win the "post of the day" PSU award. Is that a fortegunner, or a guntecker?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-23 18:10 ]</font>

[Rizen]

Myth busted!

Anyway....I been thinking for a while and I thought I might come out with nicknames for Protranser rather than the degrading "tranny" nick. What really got my thinking about this again was this topic (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=133544&forum=20&start=0&15).
For gun using Protransers...ProGunner and Melee using Protransers...ProFighter? Whatcha think?

A new description of Protranser that can be added to your first post might something like my line in the post:
Think of Protranser as a mini Fortefighter and Fortegunner combined. Because if you really think about it, thats what we are.

[Chachamaru]

Post of the day? XD; Score!

And it's a Fortegunner in the image.

[TUSCAN]

well, the way I see it, death is the best way to take any enemy out of action. kill them, fast. and you guys don't seem to use dus robado. it is so much better than tornado break, two hits on the second combo, and it looks so cool (style matters). sword does have a free PA if enemies are close together, though, making it easier to use than the spear. you can swing it anywhere and likely hit two enemies.

I'm convinced you guys are wasting your time on status traps like confuse, though. my bow will confuse the enemies that I have just stacked poison and virus on. oh well, different strokes, I suppose.

just played against those lvl 90 jarbas, and they definately need the G trap love. I don't think my virus G worked on the gol dova, though. I'll have to give it another try. perhaps character level effects all trap effectiveness.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TUSCAN on 2007-01-23 22:32 ]</font>

[ShinMaruku]

For what I'm planning on building I think those traps would help me immensly as I won't have an Axe for a good while... <_<

[Zato-2TWO]

Heyo! It's been a while since I dropped by here, and I still can't use my growing collection of grenade launchers =O.

Anyways, I'd like some thoughts on how to handle the 'heavy artillery' weapons (laser/grenade), and which bullets work best for them as a Protranser.

Rizen: Protranser-subcategory names, eh? Let's see...

Melee-based Transer: WarTranser
Gun-based Transer: ProGunner
Trap-based Transer: ProBomber =P

Personally, I think I'm going to be a ProBomber, although I'm not sure if a heavy weapons specialist would get their own title...

ProBlaster...? Blastranser...?

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-23 17:40, Chachamaru wrote:
... I immedietly went to show off the news to my clanmates. Actually it made perfect sense to me becaue I couldn't for the life of me place a SE on a shield/sworded Vandal (sp) on Moatoob with my Bow and couldn't figure out why.

Though unfortunatly the theory got shot down extremely quickly, one of my Fortegunner friends went to Neudiez and set a shielded Gohmon on fire with her SE3 rifle (though got owned in the process. XD;;)


Interesting about the Gohmon 'cause I don't go to Neudaiz often. It seems true everywhere else that I can't get statuses on shield-type leaders. I'm playing Rainbow Beast S a lot now that it's open and stupidly rewarding, and it has plenty of leader Kamatoze and Olgohmon to perform experiments on.

EDIT: I'm partial to the term ForteEverything, since that's sort of what I'm shooting for with my character.

It's cheaper on PP to do three hits (three moves) with Tornado Break than it is to do three hits (two moves) with Dus Robando, and you're swinging more ATP around while you do it. My opinion's basically the same about Dus Daggas vs Spinning Break. 36 PP for 5 hits, or 60 PP for 5 hits. Sure SB is a little better... but wow do you ever pay in terms of energy.

I'm in love with Axe by the way, after making it a policy of having two side by side on the palette with Durega on one and Redda on the other. You get your crazy damage output and can switch over to a really quick knockback move in order to group mobs or knock 'em over to give your Redda combo a better target.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-24 07:53 ]</font>

[AC9breaker]

On 2007-01-23 20:07, TUSCAN wrote:
well, the way I see it, death is the best way to take any enemy out of action. kill them, fast. and you guys don't seem to use dus robado. it is so much better than tornado break, two hits on the second combo, and it looks so cool (style matters). sword does have a free PA if enemies are close together, though, making it easier to use than the spear. you can swing it anywhere and likely hit two enemies.

I'm convinced you guys are wasting your time on status traps like confuse, though. my bow will confuse the enemies that I have just stacked poison and virus on. oh well, different strokes, I suppose.

just played against those lvl 90 jarbas, and they definately need the G trap love. I don't think my virus G worked on the gol dova, though. I'll have to give it another try. perhaps character level effects all trap effectiveness.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TUSCAN on 2007-01-23 22:32 ]</font>


Yeah, thats what I love about this game, you can come up with your own little quirks and style thats effective for you. I personally prefer Tornado Break over Dus Rabado for the stopping power. I seem to have better control of the enemies with Tornado Break then Dus Rabado. Also, I like keeping Dus Daggas on Spear, its much better then Spinning break, and Since I only carry one spear with me, I just use Dus Daggas. When I'm done with the other PA's though I'll most likely give it some more time. I'm just not really liking much of what I seen, even though it does look cool.


Grenede Launcher is awesome against worms. Totally keep them immoblized. Only element I would really recommend as a must have for Launcher is Light, everything else could be subsistuted for another element on another weapon. Laser Cannon, Ice no doubt. I use to think Cannon was weaksauce but the more I played around with it, and gained some levels, the more I grew fond of it. Both of the weapons mainly work best in large crowds. Launcher however could be use effectivly on the solo large mobs.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-24 08:08, AC9breaker wrote:
Yeah, thats what I love about this game, you can come up with your own little quirks and style thats effective for you.

That was actually my major worry about Protranser as a long-term choice: would our stats be so low that you've got to play every encounter by some unwritten guide-book for weapon/element selection, or would we be free to pick freely from the rainbow of ownage we can equip?

I'd be a fortegunner right now if PT had to play a set game in order to be effective. Fortunately there's lots of room for choice and improvisation when tackling challenges. The only things I feel like a PT has to do as a job are:
* drop traps on leaders and other serious targets - it's not a huge commitment for money once you hit the S ranks, maybe one or two stacks of Trap G will cover you and it's something nobody else can do
* support your Forte's as heavily as possible - this is probably true for all hybrid classes, but we own all over it with our awesome weapon and skill selection. If you can make a sacrifice on your offense to run status support or crowd control and set these guys up for giving 110% on the attack, it's totally worth it for the team.

[60Hz]

i'm confused... i've never had a problem SE'ing sheilded enemies except in Bruce A where the Vears are shielded and level 81. I think its the level that has more to do with it than the shield.

Not sure how enemy shields work anyway. But my traps do nothing to level 81 shielded enemies... rumor is Burn works on them tho, i think i've tried but cant remember the outcome (things get kinda hectic!)...

Anyone else play with silent traps with vanda mobs? It SEEMS like it stops the foie spray (very useful in Bruce B and A), but hard to say... i'll have to do a few runs in moatoob and test it out... plus the duration is a little shorter than i would like.

I understant the need to balance the traps (since they work 100%) but they still seem a little weak (exception of all the tickers). Hopefully there is a patch coming up.

proBomber sounds almost cool... i like the term trapaholic myself!

[panzer_unit]

Hm. It doesn't work like that for me at all. I totally can't status shielded Varharas or Vandas even in really low-rank missions. Virus G traps work against those leader Bils in Bruce A, the leader Jarbas in Lab S, etc.

Yeah, statuses don't last long. It seems best to use 'em for defending teammates in danger rather than supporting an attack, since you can be sure of getting serious value from the time they buy.

[HFlowen]

On 2007-01-23 16:15, AC9breaker wrote:
You don't have to believe for something to be a fact.

Quite the "fact" huh?

Anyway, for anyone else wondering why certain traps don't affect a shielded enemy: For a status trap to stick, it has to have an initial damage. Have you ever watched a fortegunner lay a virus G on a level 80 bil de vear? It doesn't work. Because a fortegunner doesn't have enough trap power to do at least 1 damage. A protranser on the other hand, has a 50% power bonus to a trap, making it stick.

This is why you might miss on a shielded enemy, because the shield means it has better defense than a basic enemy.

Sorry if this was already mentioned, I didn't bother to read all the posts thus far. =P

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-24 09:35, HFlowen wrote:
Quite the "fact" huh?

Anyway, for anyone else wondering why certain traps don't affect a shielded enemy: For a status trap to stick, it has to have an initial damage.

If it was that simple, you would be able to status Shield Vandas with a bow in short order. I haven't seen it happen once yet, and I grind all my bullet skills there.

[HFlowen]

I was talking about traps m8.

Some enemys are just immune to certain status. Ever seen a flaming Svatlus?

[Reiichi]

On 2007-01-24 09:35, HFlowen wrote:

On 2007-01-23 16:15, AC9breaker wrote:
You don't have to believe for something to be a fact.

Quite the "fact" huh?

Anyway, for anyone else wondering why certain traps don't affect a shielded enemy: For a status trap to stick, it has to have an initial damage. Have you ever watched a fortegunner lay a virus G on a level 80 bil de vear? It doesn't work. Because a fortegunner doesn't have enough trap power to do at least 1 damage. A protranser on the other hand, has a 50% power bonus to a trap, making it stick.

This is why you might miss on a shielded enemy, because the shield means it has better defense than a basic enemy.

Sorry if this was already mentioned, I didn't bother to read all the posts thus far. =P



I never paid much attention to the actual trap damage since it was always so bad on my figunner, but this makes sense. And it would sure explain a LOT if it is the case.

What is the damage mod for a Burn G vs. a Poison G. Would this explain why some people (non PT) were able to land poison on regular A bears but not burn? But then again poison is earth based, and bears are earth. Would initial trap damage be reduced because of this or does it not matter?

Also for those of you who trap a lot, is your damage set or does it vary by a few points? If damage varied and you were near the 0 damage threshold would traps sometimes 'fail' essentially?

psuwiki lists damage trap damage as a base value + character level x modifier. PT would have a higher modifier. Perhaps this is worth studying to determine at what level PT or non PT could you land specific traps on monsters.

edit: then you factor in zalure...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reiichi on 2007-01-24 10:02 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-24 09:55, HFlowen wrote:
I was talking about traps m8.

Some enemys are just immune to certain status. Ever seen a flaming Svatlus?


Svaltus is a robot. No robots burn. I've never seen one of those guys with the shield modifier either, well not that I remember. Totally different situation.

Vandas aren't immune to Silence, for example, and it still won't stick to the shield guys. Regular Jarbas freeze and burn easily enough but I never see it come up on the super versions.

There's *something* to it I'm sure. Maybe shield adds some specific status immunities, and they're different for whatever kind of monster it's on?

[HFlowen]

Sounds like we need to conduct a study.

[SolomonGrundy]

I have a thoery: that inflicting status is tied to ATA in some way, or perhaps some classes have a bonus to it. Maybe both?

Thus ForteGunners that inflict status on shield enemies, becasue their class or uber high ATA allow for it. PSO was this way, the "specials" hit more often as your ATA increased.

Also, note that the Fortegunner was inflicting Burn on an ice enemey. And I've read that folks are able to freeze Jarbra (even leader types). Possibly shielded enemies resistance to SEs are tied to thier element?

MUCH more testing needs to be done.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[AC9breaker]

Well you know, around page 5 or 4 panzer_unit posted his findings that SE4 bullets do not effect shielded enemies. Having level 4 bullets myself and noticing the discrepancy, I agreed with his logic with no question.

In anycase, with the postings of flaming shielded Gohmons I decided I would test the hypothesis of SE4 bullets not applicable on shielded enemies.

The experimenter
me.

Subjects
Go Vahras.

I went into S rank Parum and searched for some Vahras with the shield.

Target aquired.
http://www.apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/psu_trap1.jpg


commencing Hostilities
I check to see if the target was susceptible to burn by throwing down a Burn G trap.
The target tested positive.
http://www.apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/psu_trap2.jpg


Now I would test weather it was possible to inflict burn with my level 26 Ensei-Sou level 4 Burn. Should work just like Chachamaru posted.
http://www.apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/psu_trap3.jpg



Notice my PP here.
http://www.apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/psu_trap4.jpg



Now notice my PP here, still no burn.
http://www.apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/psu_trap5.jpg


In the end, I ended up killing him, without ever getting burn on him once.
http://www.apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/psu_trap6.jpg


Anyway, there was something wrong with the experiment. The Target had king status. It was possible that, the combination of King and shield made him invulnerable to SE4 burn as a sort of status boost. Kinda like how Players get bonus from wearing special gear together ie, Phantom line, Phantom Rifle.

Also I thought maybe Vahras just have high resistance rates, so I tested out my arrows on a regular Vahras, was lighted up with relative ease.
http://www.apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/psu_trap7.jpg



So I decided to press on and find shield Vahras without the king status. Found two perfect candidates.
http://www.apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/psu_trap8.jpg



I trapped one vahra behind a rock and focused on one. After several arrows where pumped into him, he too died without once being set on fire.
http://www.apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/psu_trap9.jpg



The same results with the last vahra. Death with no fire.
http://www.apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/psu_trap10.jpg




I've come up with several theories on why things are the way the are. 3 being the one I feel is least correct, 1 being the one I feel is most correct.

3. Mission type
The image Chachamaru posted was from a non S rank mission. Perhaps the kind of monster had to deal with, but that still doesn't explain why shield Bear and Jabras can't be burned in non S rank missions from weapon effects.

2. Fortegunner have a hidden bonus.
Just like how Protranser have 50% critical hit rate. I was thinking that perhaps Fortegunners have the ability of enhanced rifle status applications. We would need a fortegunner with SE 4 bullets to verify this in our tests.

1. Sega Glitchage.
I'm sure several of us remember the "shock stops megid!" claims from Linear line S. Which was true intill Sega patched it. I wouldn't be surprised if being able to apply status from weapons on shielded enemies is an error on Sega's part.


In anycase, I plan on doing some more tests later on myself. I'm guessing that it has something to do with just certain monster types.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AC9breaker on 2007-01-24 11:52 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

I like the opposite-element theory. That wouldn't explain poisoning leader Bil's however. Damn.

[SolomonGrundy]

has anyone tried applying SE4 shock to the bears?
I suspect the ATA has something to do with it. ForteGunner ATA is significantly higher than any other class,and certainly leaves PT ATA in the dust.

Also, tests need to be done with a rifle, not a bow. Vary AS few things as possible for most accurate data results. I would try using Burn on the S rank version of the icy dudes.

[panzer_unit]

If memory serves Bils are out and out immune to shock. I couldn't stick it with a Shock Trap G so my bow's totally not going to work. Too bad, cause I got that skill to 21 just last week or something.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-24 13:32, panzer_unit wrote:
If memory serves Bils are out and out immune to shock. I couldn't stick it with a Shock Trap G so my bow's totally not going to work. Too bad, cause I got that skill to 21 just last week or something.



even normal Bils?

[60Hz]

Yeah Bils are immune from what i heard. I havent even tried in a while but i remember trying way back when and it didn't work.

I think ATA does effect the chance of an effect triggering. I think there is some relationship between enemy's def and your ata. This would explain why i can SE lvl 35+ King Vears but not lvl 81. There def is too high and my ATA is way too low.

How this relates to traps is anybody's guess... Is ATA taken into account when a trap triggers? Or is their some secret Trap Attribute we are missing.

Anyway level 4 freeze bullets work on pretty much every non-boss character in the game (mini-boss included - i can't think of anything i haven't frozen) except for those level 81 shielded vears and vandas... i haven't fully test the vandas out with bullets but the traps i know dont work.

I'll try some more on Bruce A tomorrow...

There is a rumor that the Vears can be burned?? i think i tried in the heat of battle with negative results, but i'll look into it tomorrow...

[AC9breaker]

Yeah Bears can be burned. I have set many a bears on fire with both my Fire bow and, with the burn sleep combo that Ive been using lately.

--Edit Just remembered it was on B rank Bruce.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AC9breaker on 2007-01-25 05:10 ]</font>

[ShinMaruku]

My force burns them too so I'm sure you guys can do it better.

[_Deliverance_]

I don't think it has anything to do with accuracy, otherwise PT ata would be better than it is. I'm guessing it's related to several factors.

Character level / Job level
Mob level / Mob defense / Mob element affinity

I'm also partial to the idea that it's a SEGA glitch.

[SolomonGrundy]

Deliverance: I think Protransers are very cleary meant to inflict status with TRAPS rather than with guns.

Thier ATA is just meant to give them access to the guns.

[panzer_unit]

I really haven't noticed any disadvantage for my status apply rate compared to the couple of fortegunners I party with. They'd have to land statuses on every hit to really outperform what I do with a bow or shotgun.

I think I've seen shielded leader Kamatoze's catch fire from weapon hits now, but tried silencing shielded leader Go-Vandas last night to test the opposite-element theory and it didn't work.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-25 10:46 ]</font>

[Zato-2TWO]

I think Solomon has it. I've hit leaders with small traps where no other party member could even touch them with an SE, bow/rifle or not.

Incidentally, does anyone know any tricks to leveling PAs for a 'Heavy Arms' Transer? My weapons of choice are Shotguns, Lasers, Grenades, and the occassional Swords/Knuckles/Spears.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zato-2TWO on 2007-01-25 10:57 ]</font>

[HFlowen]

^Makes sense.

Also, don't foget the whole zero damage trap thing I said earlier.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-25 10:52, Zato-2TWO wrote:
Incidentally, does anyone know any tricks to leveling PAs for a 'Heavy Arms' Transer? My weapons of choice are Shotguns, Lasers, Grenades, and the occassional Swords/Knuckles/Spears.


Shotguns: if you're point-blanking, just about anywhere is good. I guess you just don't want to pick a difficulty where you'll miss a lot.

Lasers: LINEAR LINE. Spawn the mobs then back up through a door... if you can try and get just the edge of a corner between you and the monsters, so they'll bunch up extra as they're closing in. You'll be strafing huge numbers of opponents per shot.

Grenades: Rainbow Beast... spam them endlessly into Kamatozes. Pop one or two into Ageeta and Gohmon formations as well. Valley / Mine are more of the same with vandas and Kogs.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-25 10:44, panzer_unit wrote:
I really haven't noticed any disadvantage for my status apply rate compared to the couple of fortegunners I party with. They'd have to land statuses on every hit to really outperform what I do with a bow or shotgun.


Panzer - shotgun is not an apples to apples if you are talking about point blank (5x chance to apply status).

What you really need to do is to find a fortegunner with significantly higher ATA than you (say, a cast of the same job level), both use the same weapon, (NOT a bow vs. a rifle), and see if the resuts vary.


I think I've seen shielded leader Kamatoze's catch fire from weapon hits now, but tried silencing shielded leader Go-Vandas last night to test the opposite-element theory and it didn't work.

with a trap or with a weapon?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-25 15:57 ]</font>

[Shadow_Wing]

Here's what I have found out based on my own experience, cause I solo a lot I have quite a few observations on SE landing on mobs. It all really depends on the mob type you're fighting when you're trying to SE a buffed up mob, however traps ignore the buffs and land regardless, that is if u deal at least one point of dmg.

[panzer_unit]

An apples to apples comparison with, say, handguns would take a while to set up since my skills on that weapon are only mid-teens. I get the feeling that I'd have noticed my own SE rate going up since I've like tripled my ATA (including weapon upgrades) over the last 6 job ranks. I've been shooting statuses with my bow the whole time.

The go-vahara test (vanda lol those arent on parum) was with a weapon. A trap would work fine.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-25 13:50, panzer_unit wrote:
An apples to apples comparison with, say, handguns would take a while to set up since my skills on that weapon are only mid-teens. I get the feeling that I'd have noticed my own SE rate going up since I've like tripled my ATA (including weapon upgrades) over the last 6 job ranks. I've been shooting statuses with my bow the whole time.

The go-vahara test (vanda lol those arent on parum) was with a weapon. A trap would work fine.



so the ATA theory could still be true. ForteGunners may not be able to use bows, but their ATA is noticable higher (double) a Protranser. The other thoery that might be true is that ForteGunners have a bonus to weapon Status application, while Protransers have a bonus to trap status AE.

We *really* need a fortegunner to come play in this thread....or, you know, if SOMEONE WE KNOW was a cast already...

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

(just teasing on that last point)

[_Deliverance_]

On 2007-01-25 10:36, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Deliverance: I think Protransers are very cleary meant to inflict status with TRAPS rather than with guns.

Thier ATA is just meant to give them access to the guns.





I don't see your point (besides the obvious).
How does your theory explain my Fortetecher landing Freeze on a 1 in 3 shot? While I do have 3rd best racial ATA, fortetecher ata is quite abysmal.

I just don't see the connection between ata and SE'ing a mob. Maybe I'll do some experiments of my own, although I play more PT lately than FT.

[SolomonGrundy]

I don't see your point (besides the obvious).
How does your theory explain my Fortetecher landing Freeze on a 1 in 3 shot? While I do have 3rd best racial ATA, fortetecher ata is quite abysmal.

You are able to apply SEs to mobs that are "easy" to apply SEs too
Your fortetecher cannot land SEs on creatures better than the protranser, right? If your forte could than you would easily disprove my theory.

Which is, for the sake of clarity: ATA influnces whether or not weapon SEs get applied to enemies. There is a hidden value (or maybe not so hidden in the case of shield/crown/cane) that ATA is matches against.

[AC9breaker]

On 2007-01-24 09:35, HFlowen wrote:

On 2007-01-23 16:15, AC9breaker wrote:
You don't have to believe for something to be a fact.

Quite the "fact" huh?

Anyway, for anyone else wondering why certain traps don't affect a shielded enemy: For a status trap to stick, it has to have an initial damage. Have you ever watched a fortegunner lay a virus G on a level 80 bil de vear? It doesn't work. Because a fortegunner doesn't have enough trap power to do at least 1 damage. A protranser on the other hand, has a 50% power bonus to a trap, making it stick.

This is why you might miss on a shielded enemy, because the shield means it has better defense than a basic enemy.

Sorry if this was already mentioned, I didn't bother to read all the posts thus far. =P



After running some Bruce A runs Hflowens explaination is most certainly true. I noticed I wasn't able to land on my traps on the buffed enemies without Zalure. It would also explain why sometimes we land our traps and sometimes we don't on the buffed enemies. Since we have a 50% critical hit boost, I would assume that sometimes we set off a critical hit based bomb.


Building off of this new law which Hflowen presented, I would have to take Solomongrundys theory on ata, being a factor on landing status. I hypothesise that the ability to land Status for each effect type differs for the attack. For example, Traps are defense based. I would assume Ranged weapon statuses are Evasion based and finally I would assume that Spell statuses are MST based. I think this is the most solid explanation we have thus far. Cause think about it, a newmen with high enough MST and a small % in dark armor can pretty much null the effect of megid. What does everyone else think?

[_Deliverance_]

That sounds reasonable. I know that my newman is pretty lucky against Megids (when I do in fact get hit.)

[HFlowen]

Whoo! I have my own law now. =P

[panzer_unit]

Nice science on the traps. I'll edit this in on the guide.

[SolomonGrundy]

AC9: pretty brillant - the part where different SEs from different sources go against different defenseive values.

And *might* be easy to test. Gunteckers can both apply zodeel, AND zodial (or simply eat the booster item), and go for the SE. I kno it's not the best case (Which would be a fortetecher applying both zodial/zodeel, and a cast fortegunner attempting to apply the status...

[HFlowen]

Just be sure to refer to it as Flowen's Law. xD

[BahnKnakyu]

I'd just like to chime in on how much excellent info you all have provided in this thread. This thread's chock full of information that people can use for classes outside the PT class, and it just goes to show how much of a great class it is and how much skill it really takes to make this class shine. I'm tempted to make a PT myself, only because it's horribly underplayed and underappreciated (save for you great players here in this thread). Keep up the good work!

[ShinMaruku]

This info makes me want to make a newearl Protranser right now. I think the little accuracy and traps would help me nicly regardless of how the monsters would probly eat me like they try when dambarta gets flowin...

[SolomonGrundy]

It made me want to make my Male Human a PT

[AC9breaker]

Here are a few questions I've been pndering. If say the ATA theory for weapons is correct, then does that mean there is boost in landing statuses from the back of an enemy?

Also, why is it that Bee's can be easily afflicted with a status when striking from behind, where as something like a Polvahara or Komatoze requires a bit more effort to be afflicted with a status? Most likely there is more to the formula then just Evasion.

[SolRiver]

Hmm... alot of holes to poke in the theory. But it is still early anyway.

For example, have you try trapping without zalure but with zoldeel instead? While that, what are the chances that each trap use a different stat to calculate its sucess rate?

With bow's DFP ignoring feature, maybe bow also have higher SE sucess rate?

Also, most of the traps are pretty next to useless in S rank missions as the duration is like 2 sec, same thing to SUV. (I hope there are going to be some kind of new traps soon to fix this) My light bow 2 SE last way longer than my confuse traps =(

END/STA was suppose to be one of the stat that effect SE. Maybe we can have a female fG compared to a male whatever on how often they get status aliment from a monster. To see if this effect duration or not.

Meh, wish I can max my PT level soon, so I can try fG or GT with my caseal on these issues.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2007-01-26 22:29 ]</font>

[Rizen]

Woot! I hit Protranser 10 earlier this morning! Hell ya!

(I was going to post earlier but youtube is being stupid -.-)
Heres a link when it works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=265wIVIlfx8

I am able to use 8* Axes and a few 9* weapons! Onward to 70!

[60Hz]

Ha! Congrats Rizen! We need to party! All PT10 Party! HIVE anyone!?!? Trying to figure out if i should try another class or just level to 70 and level all my pa's to 30...

On a side note i've noticed silence works on the vanda mobs in bruce A however it does not work on mobs in bruce B. Needless to say when running bruce A i make sure i have my grav shot bow equipped along with some silence traps (usually G - but sometimes i switch on the fly to normals)... these reduce the random foie and diga madness from those annoying reptiles!

I'm into HIVE now, but i still love a good bruce run!

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-27 20:41, 60Hz wrote:


On a side note i've noticed silence works on the vanda mobs in bruce A however it does not work on mobs in bruce B. Needless to say when running bruce A i make sure i have my grav shot bow equipped along with some silence traps (usually G - but sometimes i switch on the fly to normals)... these reduce the random foie and diga madness from those annoying reptiles!



I just noticed today that a silenced vandana can still breathe fire?!

[60Hz]

Was this in Bruce A? I was consistently stopping the Bruce A vandas (whatever they are called - is it Vandanas? ) with silence... the regular vandas ignore the silence tho...

[60Hz]

WTH!!!!

http://protranser.youaremighty.com/

Wth!!!

Rizen u r crazy!!!

[SolomonGrundy]

Valley of carnage C, using dual handguns. Silence status was inflicted, and they still breathed fire. They did not thow diga, but they DID breathe fire

[60Hz]

Yeah in C those are vandas, those wont stop spitting foie its the S variants of Vandas that can be affected by Silence, which happens the be the variants in Bruce's A. Moh Vandarths or something like that... silence shuts them up every time!

[_Deliverance_]

Have you tried sticking them with shock?

[Zato-2TWO]

Something strange that occurred while I was trying out the new story mission.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Zato-2TWO/psu20070128_161901_000.jpg
No traps were used, and I didn't use Sturm Buster (as you can see my SUV gauge), only my Shigga Damduc +10 with Barada Banga at lvl 17, not even over 21.

[ACH]

I was doing a whole bunch of Onma S runs yesterday. We got leader Ollakas with Freeze, Paralyze and Silence all three at the same time, multiple times, and those enemies are lvl65. It's not rare to put SEs on leader enemies with ranged weapons at all.

"All traps become several times more powerful"
So what does this really mean then? In the previously mentioned Onma S runs one of the fGs used traps, 10 levels lower then me an we both were doing 1339 HP damage per tick on the Tengoghs with Virus G traps.

[panzer_unit]

The leader Ollakas don't have full bonuses. If memory serves they just get the Crown... I'm not sure what it does for them. I've noticed Crown Sendillians in the Hive can shoot Foie, however.

EDIT: by traps becoming more powerful, in the case of Status traps they still mean the initial HP damage when it detonates. According to HFlowen's Law this makes them capable of tagging statuses on unusually high-defense opponents.

ALSO! What statuses are the big guys (any of 'em) in Hive vulnerable to? I've dropped Freeze, Virus, a bunch of stuff. It's sort of hard to tell what sticks but for the most part it seems like they're not working.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-29 07:35 ]</font>

[60Hz]

I've had little problem dropping statuses on HIVE enemies (i'm talking the new party mission not story one). All except for the centaur mini-bosses, i cant get anything to stick to them at all, even unshielded, but this was on S (and they are level 85+ i think), so it could be the Def vs Ata stuff... maybe i'll do A run right now and see whats what...

[AC9breaker]

Chaos Sorceres seem very susceptable to just about every status effect. Dilnazen, are like Vil Da Bears in that they require more confirmation. The flying dodes, seem to have the same weaknesses as Tengs, adn lastly the Chaos Bringer-ish guy at the end of the hive is immune to just about every status effect except Jellen and Zalure. All my traps did the initial damage to him but no status effect. I tried, Virus, Burn, Freeze, Silence, and I think thats it. Didnt try paralyze but I have a strong feeling he's immune to it too.


Also just wanted to note. It seems alot easier to place a status effect on an enemy with weapons, when striking them from the back.

[-_Tao_-]

Poison sticks long and hard to the SEED mini boss. Almost 2k per tick for an incredibly long time. I havent got anything to stick to the end boss. I hope thats not a trend to come for future updates.

[SolomonGrundy]

Chaos Sorcers? You mean the teleporting guys who shot foie at a distance, and gibarta up close?

[60Hz]

Yeah minibosses seem susciptible to virus also... sometimes it seems i need to use actual virus G other times a normal virus will do... not sure what's going on there... sometimes i would miss with one normal virus then re try and hit with a normal virus...

anyway, i think i maybe switching classes soon... tho i really dont want to, i feel like i'm wasting MP... not sure which way i'm going.. probably be with one of the other hybrid classes and most likely Fightgunner, since i just have no space for tech PA's... but then again i just might not switch and just focus on levelling PA's...

[Keiya]

I just got my Protransor today. -_- Lvl 23 A few lvls and I'll be fine i suppose.

Does anyone know when an female Human protransor will be able to use a Soda Crea or Cresaud? >.>

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-29 18:19, 60Hz wrote:

anyway, i think i maybe switching classes soon... tho i really dont want to, i feel like i'm wasting MP... not sure which way i'm going.. probably be with one of the other hybrid classes and most likely Fightgunner, since i just have no space for tech PA's... but then again i just might not switch and just focus on levelling PA's...



switch to ForteFighter, or ForteGunner - both are easy switches.

[60Hz]

yeah grundy i may just do that... i think 1st i'm shooting for 70, then i will be forced to switch (no xp and no mp!)!

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-30 21:23, 60Hz wrote:
yeah grundy i may just do that... i think 1st i'm shooting for 70, then i will be forced to switch (no xp and no mp!)!



Man, I don't know how you do it - all those missions...no MP. I'd at least make an alt, or something (<- note subtle plea to play me...if you are on xbox360)

[Ninku]

So its true Humans get no bonus for going Protranser? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Is there a link to that source? I guess I can use my free character slot for a Beast instead of another human character now.

[panzer_unit]

Humans get a race bonus for playing PT