Criminal matter regarding the X-Box 360 version of PSU. I ne

[spaceyace]

Criminal matter regarding the X-Box 360 version of PSU. I need some information from the community
This is Spacey from the X-Box 360 version of PSU. I need some assistance from PSU players on the X-Box 360 version of the game. Please do not move this topic or delete it as this is a criminal matter and I need information to assist in the police investigation. This may need to be made as a sticky also. As some may know, last night my account was stolen by Neon, Pappy, and possibly a character named Long. They used a method called pretexting, where they call X-Box live support and get them to reset the victims password so they can log in as them and do whatever they want. It is not yet clear if they have someone inside X-Box Live as an accomplice, or if they have gotten inept employees every time that they have done this, since this is against company policy and also highly illegal.

If you do not know the story, here is the run down of what happened. Two days ago I noticed NeoN lurking in my room. After reading all the Jinxpalm topics, I was a bit freaked out by him being there, so I quickly ran out of my room. About an hour later I returned to my room, and he was still there. He trailed me as I ran out of it again, and I remember thinking he better not be trying to get my gamertag to try and mess with me. Well tonight me and my real life wife, the character named Darreh, were sitting afk in my room doing some chores, when I noticed someone saying something to me. Pappy: "I heard about your room, I just wanted to come check it out." A character named Long was also there. Next thing I know I am kicked off the game. I try to log back in, but it says my "X-box live profile is not valid". Now on my wifes character I notice myself signing in and going into my room. I try to go there on her but there is a password now on my room. She sends some simple mails to my character that we know what is going on, but they don't respond. Then she and some of my friends went to NeoN's room. There stood my Grinna Bete S. Displayed in the middle of NeoN's room, as well as my Onmagoug, 2 Zoonas, and everything else. Darreh then checked Pappy and NeoN while confronting them. NeoN had on my 16% fire Bone Dance that Darreh had just synthed me, and Pappy was wearing my 38% light Double Saber, something we also synthed a few days ago. In Pappy's store later that evening, my armor was being sold. Rabol Tero 22% dark, which we had also just purchased a day or so ago.

I was unable to recover my account, since they had changed the password. In contacting X-Box Live support, they were able to confirm the method used as stated before, and they seemed shocked that their employee would do such a thing. They told me this was identity theft and a criminal matter, and I should contact the police as soon as I get off the phone with them. They also said I needed to cancel my credit card to stop them from using it.

Here is where I need some information from the X-Box 360 PSU community. In talking with the police, we have filed felony charges against NeoN, Pappy, and perhaps Long in this matter. If anyone else's account was stolen in this way, or knows anyone that this has happened to, I need some information.

Here is the known list so far:
Carnage - all items stolen
Jinxpalm - all items stolen and character deleted
Alain - all items stolen and character deleted
Spacey - all items stolen

Anyone with any information that is relevant to the criminal precedings, may also contact me at [email protected]

[omegapirate2k]

Hiya spacey. I really hope you bag these asshole "hackers". Hopefully if we crack down on little fucks like them this early in the game it will discourage more people from doing it in the future.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: omegapirate2k on 2006-12-12 11:47 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

I don't buy it...

[Numnuttz]

hmm i heard about this guy from other players online. i guess its time we start watching out for this guy and be careful of other players.

[Shadow_Wing]

If the method of them obtaining your information is true, yea it's pretty much identity theft.

I highly suggest collaborating with Microsoft, cause I really doubt that this entire thing will really hold out in the end without their support. Since this is a problem of them actually revealing other people's information when it isn't them, this is definitely a problem on their end, might be policy based, might just be inexperienced employees, whatever the case, this entire claim has not much to go on without their support.

[Guitarsmasher]

On 2006-12-12 11:49, Sinue_v2 wrote:
I don't buy it...


why wouldnt you believe it? i dont see why hed make this thread and take the time to wrte something very long, just so that he can lie to us, and not have any of us know. its not like it matters if he lowers the reputation of the hackers, theyve probably been banned from Xbox live, so it wouldnt matter anyways.

[Itchee]

Doesnt X-Box Live require CC or personal info in order to change accounts?

[Akaimizu]

Yes it does. Thus the explanation above where there would've had to be a breach of policy for this to take place. If true, somebody wasn't doing their job.

[McLaughlin]

I called 1-800-4MY-XBOX just a minute ago.

In order to reset a password (which the assisstant said was a highly uncommon practice) you'd need the Credit Card number, the name of the card holder, the Gamertag, the billing information, the email address the Gamertag is linked to, and your phone number.

If that were not enough, to gain access to someone's PSU account, they'd need the Gamertag on their Xbox 360. To do this, you would, again, need the credit card number, email address, billing information, and so on and so forth (basically everything you enter when you make a new Gamertag).

I find it HIGHLY improbable that they could have, via any normal means other than an accomplice within Microsoft (which would be quite a risk for a bloody Double Saber) to aquire such personal information.

Until it happens to me or I see it on the news, I'm calling bullshit.

[Wheatpenny]

On 2006-12-12 12:06, Akaimizu wrote:
Yes it does. Thus the explanation above where there would've had to be a breach of policy for this to take place. If true, somebody wasn't doing their job.



Ohh if thats the case I call Breech of Federal Privacy Act for Microsoft.

[Sychosis]

As far as I can tell it is quite real. The thread on GameFAQs is damn near legendary.

Xbox Live DOES require you to have personal information, but they used a technique called pretexting:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/pretext.htm

The 109th Congress has made it a federal offense with punishments for individuals of up to a quarter million dollars in fines and up to 10 years imprisonment.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sychosis on 2006-12-12 12:11 ]</font>

[omegapirate2k]

Lemme get this quote from gamefaqs where somebody said how they did it.

"Well I happen to know what really (supposedly) happened to Jinx and Carnage, because the guys who did it, told me how. It really was quite clever, reminds me a bit of a bank hiest. There was no hacking involved, they simply called up 1-800-4-MY-XBOX and keep using a meathod they like to call "achieving information" to get the person's account info (e-mail adress, real name, ect.). Basically they call in and make up a random name, and say "Hi, my name is "so and so" and my account is "so and so". They say "sir that is incorrect this account is registered to a "so and so". Now sometimes the opperators won't tell you, but the guy says he trys multiply times until he gets an operator to tell him the name the gamer tag is registered to (hanging up trying again later with diffrent phone/ voice). After he gets his real name, he gets other information little by little using the information they have already aquired to get new info out of the xbox people. After attaining his e-mail adress, they just used a program to "brute-force" his account and signed on as him. Then one took control, the other recieved the goods, and the deed was done. He said it was quite a lot of work but he managed to pull it off. I don't know the credibility of this information, but this is indeed what they told me. I speculated with my friend (demonicshoruko) who was with me at the time that these guys might just be making it up, but they sounded rather serious. They were members of an organization called "PPF noobs" and went by the names of Pappy and NeoN. I played with them for quite some time, they are cool dudes, I have nothing against them personally, but I just thought you guys might be intrested in hearing about what really (supposedly) happened."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: omegapirate2k on 2006-12-12 12:15 ]</font>

[Numnuttz]

xbox does need some type info that you are this person. but if you say some type of bs to them and they buy it than your screwed. it all comes down to microsoft not doing their job right with the screening of calls when they get them

[SnickersFO]

lol, nerds going to jail to get assraped by a bunch of huge guys... That is masterful.
The little nerds wont know what is coming.
I hope you get these guys, since they are obviously jerkoff nerds, and the police will find them all in their mothers basements wacking off to gay porn.
There ass will be red at all times in prison, they love nerdy people with no lives, I hear.

[McLaughlin]

Yeah, it's Microsoft's fault people are attemtping to steal Gamertags to attain virtual assets in a game produced by a completely separate studio.

None of the operators would EVER be stupid enough to say "Sorry, this account isn't registered to you. It's registered to _________."

Of the twenty-some times I've called them, EVERY TIME they don't find my Gamertag off the bat they say "I'm sorry sir, but I'm going to need the phone number and the last 4 digits on the credit card linked to this Gamertag."

[omegapirate2k]

I've never called them myself, so I really don't know if that would even work or not, it's just what I saw at gamefaqs.

[spaceyace]

To any doubters, keep this in mind. Microsoft has confirmed via their internal logs, that this is the method they used to steal my account. Xbox support said either they have an accomplice within Microsoft, or inept employees, and that this is a criminal matter and I should speak to the authorities.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: spaceyace on 2006-12-12 12:30 ]</font>

[Maskim]

They don't even require your whole credit card number, just the last 4 digits to do anything with your LIVE account. How easy is this to come by for someone determined to get it. Every receipt I get has all the nuber, except the last four digits, X'ed out.

[McLaughlin]

Those internet logs happen to be...where?

This confirmation is...where?
Still bullshit.

[omegapirate2k]

On 2006-12-12 12:27, spaceyace wrote:
Xbox support said either they have an accomplice within Microsoft, or inept employees


Personally, I'm betting on the latter.

[ChrisKo]

Sorry for your loss man. It happened all the time in Wow and FFXI. First and last name. Account name. And 4 digits and You own an account until the other person figures out whats going on. Sick and disgusting thing to do. And with Idiots on the other end of the line it seems to be even easier....

After this has been resolved or is being resolved I suggest you ask ST GM team to make a formal investigation so you might be able to get some of your property restored.

[Natrokos]

Hi Omega.

The chance of a conspiracy to steal gamertags using some microsoft lacky is a bit farfetched. I don't know what to make of it yet but I do hope that you (Spacey) can resolve this matter so you can put your own mind to rest =(... I can only suggest that those who have had identity theft keep posting and calling helplines.... I feel bad for you man I hope that you resolve this for yourself.

[Genobee]

It's alot easyier to get some ones personal infomation then you think.

[KirinDave]

This doesn't seem to be the right forum for this. Further, you're hurting any potential case you want to level. If you're really serious get a lawyer and follow their advice.

Clumsy moves in the legal world destroy cases, and what you're doing is extremely clumsy.

[spaceyace]

This is the perfect forum for this, as I have been told to gather more information as to how many instances of this have occurred. Plus, this is the biggest PSU forum I can think of. It's called gathering information...

[Sinue_v2]

Of the twenty-some times I've called them, EVERY TIME they don't find my Gamertag off the bat they say "I'm sorry sir, but I'm going to need the phone number and the last 4 digits on the credit card linked to this Gamertag."

Yeah, each time I've called them it's been the same. In fact, I'm fairly sure they have a standard operating procedure for recieving calls, since it generally sounds pretty scripted. Stumps, who I used to work for, even had a manual (SOP - Standard Operating Practices) for employees for when they were dealing with customers - things you're allowed to say and/or disclose to callers. They're just a two-bit shithole tax shelter. I can't really imagine a multi-billion dollar company like Microsoft not having their own set of SOPs.

Not to mention that the OP says he was in contact with his local police. I don't recall ever being advised to either bother with the police in cases like identity theft. It's not their jurisdiction. And really.. what the hell would you expect them to do? You'd deal with the credit card company, and in this case likely Microsoft themselves. The credit card company would (attempt) to make sure you were not liable for any fraudulent purchases and issue you a new card. I'm not sure what Microsoft would do aside from canceling or monitoring the account. Any legal action would be persued by the Credit Card company and Microsoft. Not the victim.


as I have been told to gather more information as to how many instances of this have occurred.

Horseshit. That's a job for Microsoft, Sega, the Credit Card company, or whatever legal brach persues it. Victims and citizens are NOT allowed to do their own detective work. As mentioned by Kirin, clumsy moves kill cases. I simply can't believe you were advised to do this.

[spaceyace]

LOL. The investigators said to ask around the game to see if any more people (that we dont know) will come forward either as victims or witnesses. My legal team isnt going to make a character and run around universe 1 shouting "this is the police" Hence the email part.

[Careful]

I love people who put their hands over their ears and shout "LA LA LA ,NOTHING IS WRONG, LA LA LA"

[Sinue_v2]

The investigators said to ask around the game to see if any more people (that we dont know) will come forward either as victims or witnesses.

They don't need you. They need MS's cooperation in inspecting whatever server logs they may keep for Xbox Live, and/or monitoring the account for future use by the suspect. Having you go around to a bunch of websites telling a story like this could possibly tip off the perpetrator and make the investigation even harder. I doubt even Sega would be involved since this has to do with Xbox Live and not PSU directly... so what would even be the point of asking if other PSU X360 players had experienced a similiar case of fraud?

It's not like it even matters - since if they needed additional witnesses or evidence they would simply wait until the perpetrator was in custody and then have MS issue a statement over Xbox Live asking for similar cases of fraud to be reported. THAT would, at least, be a far more effective way to get the word out that this has happened.

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-12-12 14:09, spaceyace wrote:
LOL. The investigators said to ask around the game to see if any more people (that we dont know) will come forward either as victims or witnesses. My legal team isnt going to make a character and run around universe 1 shouting "this is the police" Hence the email part.



Your legal team also can't have the victim eliciting help. It compromises any evidence you may actually get.

Any evidence, statements or otherwise, must be volunteered (IE, the witness/victim comes forward of their own will, and not because someone wanted them to. This is one of the major problems with Sexual Assault. The victims feel embarressed and just want to forget. The cops can't just go "Hey! You got raped! You NEED to come forward."), or in the case of FINDING evidence, must be sepinaed, and a warrent issued. Otherwise any incriminating evidence is dismissed because it was collected under false pretenses (Stolen, or the person's right to privacy was denied, which is where the warrent comes in).

You're full of shit. Leave.

[spaceyace]

Ok Geniuses. Both of the accused now openly admit their crimes. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=932621&topic=32377594

More players have come forward after having their accounts stolen and I am confident the ones I have accused are not involved with these new instances of identity fraud, so there are others doing this. With their method which I will not describe here, the only way to really be secure on the X-Box 360 version of the game is to call 1-800-4MY-Xbox and tell them to totally disable the resetting of you gamertag password. Tell them its due to hacking or the stealing of accounts or whatever, but get them to do it. I am just trying to help PSU be safe, all you naysayers are on the wrong team here as I am trying to fight hacking any way I can.

[MaKaVeLi_X]

On 2006-12-12 21:48, spaceyace wrote:
Ok Geniuses. Both of the accused now openly admit their crimes. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=932621&topic=32377594

More players have come forward after having their accounts stolen and I am confident the ones I have accused are not involved with these new instances of identity fraud, so there are others doing this. With their method which I will not describe here, the only way to really be secure on the X-Box 360 version of the game is to call 1-800-4MY-Xbox and tell them to totally disable the resetting of you gamertag password. Tell them its due to hacking or the stealing of accounts or whatever, but get them to do it. I am just trying to help PSU be safe, all you naysayers are on the wrong team here as I am trying to fight hacking any way I can.



The people here dont believe shit. They are ungrateful when someone tries to help and warn them.

[Sinue_v2]

I am just trying to help PSU be safe, all you naysayers are on the wrong team here as I am trying to fight hacking any way I can.

1. As Zeta and other's have pointed out, if you have a case - you're only damaging it with this little vigilante act you're pulling.

2. I didn't say I didn't believe it was happening. I'm saying that I don't believe YOU, and your claim.

3. Have you even bothered to contact the FTC? You realise that whatever police report you file is nothing more than really noterised verification to the credit card company that you filed the claim. Your local police department simply passes the information on other law enforcement agencies who DO have the jurisdiction to persue these cases. Whatever "evidence" you dig up will simply be ignored. Those law enforcement agencies will work with Microsoft in any attempt to uncover the perpetrators... not you. You should also contact a LAWYER ASAP, which I somehow doubt you have, in order to combat any other forms of credit fraud conducted through your card so that YOU are not liable for it.


The people here dont believe shit. They are ungrateful when someone tries to help and warn them.

Do you blame us? There's a lot of people out there who love making mountains out of tiney fucking molehills - claiming every little server hiccup is "OMGWTFHAX!" - not to mention people who out and out lie about this shit just to stir up the hive. This community loves it's drama. Two weeks ago, you really didn't hear anything about hacking - but it was a constant non-stop bitchfest about lack of content and how Sega hates westerners... and now that that has been proven wrong, we're getting a flood of "OMGHAX, WTF ISN"T SEGA DO'NG SUMTIHIN ABOUT IT".

It's getting very, VERY, old.

[MaKaVeLi_X]

Because there is hacks? Just because sega doesn't say anything and hides them does not mean There not true.

[spaceyace]

Yeah I have all the bases covered here. The FCC has a file about this. Hopefully with facing a possible lawsuit Microsoft and X-Box Live will do something about this horrible situation which effects not just PSU but all X-Box and Windows Live. I'm not posting anything further on this matter as I said it all in my last post.

[omegapirate2k]

I really hope that when alls said and done that you can get your items back.

[McLaughlin]

Have fun sueing THE richest man in the world.

[Jaspaller]

Sorry to hear that your account and characters were screwed over by internet theft.


On 2006-12-12 12:30, Zeta wrote:
Those internet logs happen to be...where?

This confirmation is...where?
Still bullshit.



I don't doubt what he has said about the logs. Anybody in Xbox live tech support who opens an account automatically leaves a log with a time and date stamp on it. If in fact they did do a password reset by someone internally then that would be logged by the system automatically that cannot be deleted. The guy who did it internally will obviously be found at as it has his username on that stamp. Anyone who has access to the accounts can see the logs of password resets done by CSR's or any changes to the billing information.

If the other method happened to happen as well, then there would be multiple times stamps on the account.

[JAYDEN]

i thought the other guys that posted similar storys were bullshitting, but now i am a believer.
some young people reading your post don't understand the criminal activity behind what they did, like pretexting, identity theft & theft by deception. they dont think its a big deal because they are using there parents credit card & information. so until it happens to there parents they will continue to say ITS ONLY A GAME NO BIG DEAL.

[McLaughlin]

I know everything Customer Service does is monitered.

What I fail to see here is what the OP is looking for. EVIDENCE.

Microsoft hasn't confirmed anything; it'd be plastered all over the news and internet. There have been NO publicizations of Internet Logs, which he is claiming there are. Link?

So far, the ONLY 2 incidents I've seen or heard of have been from this website. One was most likely a practical joke played by the sibling, and this guy is obviously no more credible than my dog. I have seen ZERO proof of anything even remotely similar to these incidents, and until I DO see proof - other than having all the decorations taken out of your room, which is so simple to fake - I will continue to think of this as pissed off PS2/PC users trying to make themselves feel better (except for Carnage who, as I said, was likely the victim of a practical joke).

As for "It's not my card so I don't care"; Well, I'm not even going to touch that one. Some people have morals and genuinely feel bad when they cause damage - emotion, physical, or monetary - to other people.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zeta on 2006-12-13 08:29 ]</font>

[MaKaVeLi_X]

"IT would be posted all over the internet"

Eh no. The world doesnt give a shit about a xbox live account. I doubt people want to wake up in the morning and read the paper and see XBOX LIVE ACCOUNT HACKED! Like anyone gives a shit.

[McLaughlin]

"This just in! Microsoft can no longer protect their personal information in regards to Gamertags, Microsoft's universal ID for it's online service; Xbox Live. This means anyone with a Gamertag is at risk of having their credit card number stolen, as well as other personal information!"

And yeah, it WOULD be all over the internet. Especially anywhere Sony fanboys hang out.

[Katrina]

I hope you get your items back Spacey. That's terrible what happened. (I do believe what happened in this particular case as I've been following most of the hacker posts on multiple sites, and one of these 2 was mentioned weeks before in another incident). I'd research and use those threads to possibly contact the other gamers affected by the two accused.

As far as Microsoft or any affiliates posting this all over the Internet, from a business perspective, posting that their system for this was faulty (possibly because of ineptitude of one or more of the employees at support) would not be practical or intelligent in the least from a business standpoint. It's not the type of publicity they are looking for, and assuming it's a relatively isolated incident, will most likely be handled internally.

[spaceyace]

Here is one story already on this subject, though a slightly different form
http://vgstrategies.about.com/b/a/257817.htm

[MaKaVeLi_X]

Yeah I hope you get them spacey... I dont mind hacking but what they did to you was a lil different.

[JAYDEN]

i read this on another site " quote "

again with the stupidity and young mentality.
these were the crimes committed by them
PRETEXTING , IDENTITY THEFT, THEFT BY DECEPTION (MEANS LYING TO MICROSOFT EMPLOYEES TO GET PERSONAL INFO.). and i know a ball busting prosecutor can add more charges.

and in court if the lawyer can convince the judge or jury that the virtual items had great value to the plaintiff, then defendant will also get charged for theft or receiving stolen property of the virtual items.
Microsoft alone can press charges too.
CASE CLOSED......

For all you kiddies out there, who think you can’t get charged for stealing virtual items from another person, think of this situation…
Your friend lead’s you his bicycle and someone comes up to you and steals the bicycle.

Are you not going to call the police or take legal action (if you would like to), just because the bicycle was not yours?

So it’s the same thing, Sega leads us these items for our enjoyment, so if its stolen from you and you feel like taking legal action against the person or people involved, you have every right to and with a determined lawyer there is no limit.
The case will take years to put to gather, but it can be done.

REMEMBER JUST BECAUSE IT’S A VIDEO GAME DOES NOT MEAN THERE CAN’T BE ANY REAL LIFE CRIMANAL CHARGES.

[JAYDEN]

and don't forget the civil law suit,which is more likely.

[Superguppie]

I fail to see how the charges named have anything to do with stealing virtual items. Those charges are about some things not virtual: information and identity. The fact that these were used for playing a game is circumstantial.
Also, for a civil lawsuit, have a shrink declare your sanity has been compromised, and if you can prove someone was the cause of that you can get compensation. I'm not in the US, but I heard compensations in the US can be pretty hefty, due to how they calculate compensations. If all parties involved are in the US, the perpetrators can be working their asses off to pay for that for he rest of their lives....

[JAYDEN]

if you read it correctly, the first paragraph is the mythed they used to commite the crime when they called microsoft live for info.
the rest is a possibility, if you are determined and with a good lawyer to go ahead with a civil law suit.

[McLaughlin]

There's only 1 thing I really think needs to be reiterated here.

Migrating a Live account (which you need to do to get access to their PSU stuff) requires at the BARE MINIMUM the Credit Card number and phone number (and a slew of other personal information). What employee says "Sorry sir, but the ACTUAL CREDIT CARD NUMBER IS ________________________. Hmm...? Oh, repeat it? Sure, it's _______________________."

It's NOT going to happen, no matter how drunk you get the employee.

[zandra117]

Actually Zeta all they need is your Passport ID and Password. Basically they need access to the email address linked to the Gamertag. All they have to do is use that to login to xbox.com and from there all the other information is open to them.
Including the last 4 digits of your credit card number. which is all you need to migrate an account.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2006-12-19 14:07 ]</font>

[Divanti]

On 2006-12-13 04:41, Zeta wrote:
Have fun sueing THE richest man in the world.



Um... yeah, this is WAY off-topic, but I could've sworn I heard the IKEA guy passed him up a couple years ago...

[omegapirate2k]

On 2006-12-27 11:08, Divanti wrote:

On 2006-12-13 04:41, Zeta wrote:
Have fun sueing THE richest man in the world.



Um... yeah, this is WAY off-topic, but I could've sworn I heard the IKEA guy passed him up a couple years ago...



Also off topic, this is the funniest thing I've heard all day.

[BogusKun]

On 2006-12-12 12:17, SnickersFO wrote:
lol, nerds going to jail to get assraped by a bunch of huge guys... That is masterful.
The little nerds wont know what is coming.
I hope you get these guys, since they are obviously jerkoff nerds, and the police will find them all in their mothers basements wacking off to gay porn.
There ass will be red at all times in prison, they love nerdy people with no lives, I hear.



I'm sure a bunch of rappies would love to get their wings in on a grouplove for these guys!

Well, it happend plenty times on the older PSOs. You would think it couldn't happen to someone on the new PSU?

[BogusKun]

On 2006-12-12 12:17, SnickersFO wrote:
lol, nerds going to jail to get assraped by a bunch of huge guys... That is masterful.
The little nerds wont know what is coming.
I hope you get these guys, since they are obviously jerkoff nerds, and the police will find them all in their mothers basements wacking off to gay porn.
There ass will be red at all times in prison, they love nerdy people with no lives, I hear.



I'm sure a bunch of rappies would love to get their wings in on a grouplove for these guys!

Well, it happend plenty times on the older PSOs. You would think it couldn't happen to someone on the new PSU?