Wartecher Guide

[DonRoyale]

OK, now first thing's first, I'm not a super-credible source. If you don't like my guides, don't post "omgusuxxrozgtfomywtlolololol", OK? We don't want to hear it.

NOTE: If I've misinformed you, please don't be afraid to post here and correct me. I'm only human, so I'm prone to mistakes. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_redface.gif

The breakdown on Wartechers:

1. About Wartechers
1.1. Requirements
1.2. Stats
1.3. Equipment Options
2. Race to Wartecher Breakdown
3. Becoming a Wartecher
3.1. Human Wartecher Guide
3.2. Newman Wartecher Guide
3.3. CAST Wartecher Guide
3.4. Beast Wartecher Guide
4. The Ideal Equipment

1. About Wartechers

Wartechers are a combination of Hunter skills and Force techniques. While they suffer the lowest count of S-Ranks to Protransers, Wartechers are possibly the easiest expert class to become. They're versatile in their own right, and dowright deadly in the hands of a master.

Skills: Up to level 20
Bullets: Up to level 10
Technics: Up to level 20

Serene's recommended Skills:

-Buten-Shuren Zan (Dagger)
-Renkai-Buyo Zan (Twin Dagger)
-Rising Strike (Saber)
-Reisei-Sou? (Ice Bow)
-Jisei-Sou? (Lightning Bow)
-Resta
-Reverser
-Diga
-Radiga

Tips on levelling your skills:

-When being a Hunter, team up with a lot of Forces. Have them nuke and support while you spam your PA's to get them experience. You have up to level 20 skills, and you want those skills maxed ASAP, because the combos will help you not only in soloing, but in groups (especially if you're a newman or human)

-When being a Force, heal and spam Diga spells. Team up with CASTs/Beasts so that your Resta gets plenty of experience. You want a high-level Resta for yourself, because that's the best part about being a Wartecher-the healing AND skill combinations.

Recommended Missions:

As a Hunter:
-Sleeping Warriors

Sleeping Warriors has those annoying dodgy enemies (can't remember the name), but it also has a lot of mobs that are close together that you can spam PA's on. It's a bit longer than Plains Overlord, but killing Svaltus doesn't take nearly as much time as De Ragan.

-Valley Of Carnage

Lots of fun spamming PA's on those Kog Nadds.

As a Force:
-Plains Overlord

You want to be healing and buffing as a Force. Bosses help you there the most.

-Grove Of Fanatics

See above.

-Desert Terror

See above.

Recommended Weapon Makers By Race:
Human: Any
Newman: GRM
CAST: Yohmei
Beast: Yohmei

1.1. Requirements

Of course, to become a Wartecher, you need a level 3 Hunter and level 5 Force job stats.

1.2. Stats

Type Lvl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
HP 100% 101% 102% 104% 106% 108% 110% 115% 120% 130%
ATP 75% 76% 77% 78% 80% 82% 84% 86% 90% 100%
ATA 60% 61% 62% 63% 64% 65% 66% 68% 70% 80%
TP 70% 72% 74% 80% 82% 84% 86% 90% 92% 94%
DFP 80% 82% 84% 86% 90% 95% 100% 105% 110% 120%
EVP 160% 160% 160% 160% 160% 160% 160% 160% 160% 160%
MST 80% 82% 84% 86% 88% 90% 95% 100% 105% 110%
STA 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
CHR 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%


1.3. Equipment Options

Bow-A-Rank
Card-A-Rank
Claw-A-Rank
Dagger-S-Rank
Handgun-A-Rank
Knuckles-A-Rank
Saber-A-Rank
Spear-A-Rank
Twin Claw-A-Rank
Twin Dagger-S-Rank
Twin Saber-A-Rank
Wand-A-Rank
Axe-Cannot Use
Crossbow-Cannot Use
Double Saber-Cannot Use
Grenade Launcher-Cannot Use
Laser Cannon-Cannot Use
Machinegun-Cannot Use
Rifle-Cannot Use
Rod-Cannot Use
Shotgun-Cannot Use
Sword-Cannot Use
Twin Handgun-Cannot Use

2. Race-to-Wartecher Breakdown

This guide will help you figure out how to become a Wartecher based on your race.

In my opinion, the order of races for being a Wartcher, in ascending order, are:

4: Cast
3: Human
2: Beast
1: Newman

3. Becoming a Wartecher

Now, to the part where I help you confused people know how you should approach the arduous task of levelling your job EXP so that you have a level 5 Force and level 3 Hunter.

As a Hunter, group often with support Forces. They'll heal you while you spam your PA's. You get PA experience, they get Resta/Reverser experience, everybody's happy. =D

As a Force, group often with CASTs or Beasts, the higher level, the better. You want as much Resta/Reverser EXP as possible. Albeit as a Newman, your attack spells aren't as important as your support and heal spells.

3.1. Human Wartecher Guide

Now, you humans have it easy. Your balanced abilities give you a good look into Wartechers.

Your stats in comparison with other races go as follows:

HP: C
ATP: C
DFP: C
EVP: B
TP: B
MST: B
ATA: C
STA: C

Note now that you have sub-par ATP, DFP, and ATA. Regarless, ATP is still not a problem regardelss of race. (It won't make a lick of difference once we get buffs)

Recommendation: Start by being a Hunter. That way, you can build up your DFP and PA levels. Once you hit level 5 Hunter, most of the Photon Arts you'll be using will be at an optimal level.

Your sub-par HP will mean your Resta won't get much experience while being a Force, but it helps being in groups of Beast Hunters to help you level your Resta and Reverser.

Diga is your most potent Technic. Level it and nothing else when it comes to attack technics. You want most of your skill slots left open for things like the PA's for the weapons you have, as well as BA's.

As a Wartecher, your biggest bonus is your balance of good ATP, very good EVP, and good MST. Your biggest setback comes from your low DFP and rubbish ATA.

Keep to single Daggers for their good ATA until you're confident enough to move to another weapon. Your ATA will not serve you well.

3.2. Newman Wartecher Guide

Now to the fun part, the one where I've the most experience. Newman Wartechers are the best Wartechers you'll ever have. Period. No contest, nuff said, good game n00b.

Your stats in comparison with other races go as follows:

HP: D
ATP: D
DFP: D
EVP: A
TP: A
MST: A
ATA: B
STA: D

You have the lowest HP, ATP, DFP, and STA of all classes. However, the minute you have buffs, you are a walking juggernaut. You have absurdly high EVP, so your low defense is backed up by fast feet. You have the best MST, so the magic, the stuff that doesn't miss, won't do much damage.

Recommendation: Start as a Force. Your low ATP means you're more Techer than War. Always be in groups. Never solo until you're absolutely confident in your abilities, otherwise soloing takes forever. You'll have low DFP and HP but you'll build up your HP and ATP so that you don't flop as a Hunter. Plus, when you first become a Wartecher, you have a high-level Resta. (I became a Wartecher at level 14 and had level 7 Resta at that time, as well as level 5 Reverser.)

As a Force, you want to be using wands, because they're what you'll be using as a Wartecher. As a Newman, I recommend you shut yourself off from any non-Bow BA's and most PA's that you feel you don't need. Keep yourself open to attack techs, you may need them in a pinch or in a boss battle.

As a Hunter, be sure to either group with strong Hunters or Forces, because you're very open for attack. I've learned through my experience that most enemies go "OMG HUNEWM KILLLLLLLL" and rush you. STICK TO SOLO ENEMIES UNLESS YOU HAVE A STUN PA, OTHERWISE YOU. WILL. BE. PWNT. I cannot stress that enough, because you don't want your partners booting you. (For those stupid enough to go to Universe 1 with people other than your friends. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

As a Wartecher, you gain the bonus of absurdly high EVP, MST, and TP, meaning you'll be a huge tanker. You'll be getting a lot of EXP this way, both with your TA's and your PA's. You'll have average HP, DFP, and ATA, which will help because your above-average ATA against Wartecher's horrid ATA balances you out. Your low HP will get a pretty good bonus, making you a force to be reckoned with. However, your low STA means that while you get in the fray a lot, you'll be knocked fifty feet back with the slightest hit. Plus, in groups, you'll be chewed up and spit out, literally. I urge you to be careful.

3.3. CAST Wartecher Guide

Ah, CASTs. Possibly the most unbalanced Wartecher race, but still good. Any class can be made good in the hands of a good player (Even CAST Fortetechers o.O)

Your stats in comparison with other races go as follows:

HP: B
ATP: B
DFP: B
EVP: C
TP: D
MST: D
ATA: A
STA: B

You have the highest ATA, meaning you still get pretty good ATA considering the fact that Wartechers have the lowest ATA. The lowest TP and MST means you'll have trouble as a Wartecher and more notably as a Force, but if you're up for the challenge, I'm here to help. =D

Recommendation: Begin as a Hunter. Don't do anything else, the first thing you should do is become a Hunter when you first create what will become your CAST Wartecher. You don't want any skills that you won't be using as a Wartecher, am I right? Plus, you have all the makings of a good Hunter. Just...stay away from Neudaiz Relics, that's enough said right there D= (If you feel that paranoid, stay away from De Ragan too, because he does have that fiery habit D=)

As a Hunter, your only real problem will be your extremely noticable lack of MST. A simple Foie shot will melt your armor. Stay away from the enemies that cast attack techs, because they'll murder you. Have your partners (who should be Hunters, by the way.) take care of those enemies. Level up the nescessary PA's and you should be fine.

As a Force, you're going to have a huge amount of trouble. You're still going to have rubbish MST and TP, even as a Force, and you'll be a very lackluster fighter. Don't even bother with attack techs, JUST HEAL. Leech off your partners for job EXP if nescessary. You just want this painful chapter in your character's life to be put behind you.

As a Wartecher, you'll have about B- ranked ATA, which is still very potent. Your ATP and HP along with your ATA will be your greatest assets. As far as techs go, do NOTHING BUT HEAL, otherwise you'll learn that you'll go through PP like water, and therefore go through all your PP in a matter of 2-4 rooms. Keep to one-handed weapons, as they're more accurate than the two-handed weapons.

And I'm warning you now: USE YOHMEI WEAPONS. You're gonna go through PP like water, you want all the PP you can get. Grind as much as possible.

3.4. Beast Wartecher Guide

The beasts. I ranked Beasts second because they get an MST-bonus with their Nanoblasts, a bonus NOBODY can ignore.

Your stats in comparison with other races go as follows:

HP: A
ATP: A
DFP: A
EVP: D
TP: C
MST: C
ATA: D
STA: A

OK, you have absurdly high HP, ATP, DFP, and STA, stats that are certainly helpful in the long run. Your low ATA is the whole reason you don't want to be a Beast Wartecher. Again, Yohmei weapons (for ATA and not PP this time), as well as ATA slots, are a huge staple of a Beast Wartecher.

Recommendation: Of course, start as a Hunter. Raw power is your best asset. Abuse it, and spam PA's as much as possible because, with your raw power, you won't have to use your PA's much to kill an enemy.

Also, use the ATA/Speed Nanoblast (don't know what it's called). You want to have all the ATA you can get to even make it sub-par, because your ATA is so low it's not even funny.

As a Hunter, it really depends on the direction you want to go. If you want to be a Hunter to level your PA's in preparation, then solo. Beast Hunters are possibly the easiest class to solo with. You may not get to level 3 very fast, but you'll get a lot of PA EXP.

If you want to level your PA's once you become a Wartecher (and you can do that. That works best for Beast Wartechers, infact.), then group as much as possible. Just be sure you know what you're doing.

As a Force, I'll say the same thing I said about CASTs: Group. Heal. Yohmei. Leech. Rush.

As a Wartecher, you have near-perfect stats, except for your ATA. Keep your ATA high by having ATA units, Yohmei weapons, and the ATA nanoblast. Keep to healing when it comes to techs, and I'll tell you this-You're the best solo beast there is. Period.

4. The Ideal Equipment

This guide will tell you what your pallette should look like, depending on your race.

Human:

-Saber-Card Combo
-Dagger-Card Combo
-Twin Daggers
-Spear
-Wand (Resta/Zoldial)-Card Combo
-Wand (Diga/Shifta)-Card Combo

Keep to healing techs, and prepare your elements according to your preferred hunting area.

Newman:

-Saber-Card Combo
-Dagger-Card Combo
-Twin Daggers
-Bow
-Wand (same)-Card Combo
-Wand (same)-Card Combo

You can either use healing techs, or a wand with Resta and an attack tech. Your choice.

CAST:

-Bow
-Dagger-Card Combo
-Twin Daggers
-Spear
-Wand-Card Combo
-Wand-Card Combo

Keep to Resta and Reverser, stray from everything else.

Beast:

-Saber-Card Combo
-Spear
-Twin Daggers
-Dagger-Card Combo
-Wand-Card Combo
-Wand-Card Combo

Keep to Resta and Reverser as well. Keep your multi-elemented BA's handy, as you'll need them. I recommend you also keep multiple elements for your bladed weapons-you want to maximize the damage you WILL be doing, since you won't do much of it.

-------------------------------------------

And that's it! So much for 1 1/2 hours, now, huh?

I hope I've helped you aspiring, and even current Wartechers get a better grip on this class. I've been turned off by this class' lack of S-Ranks, but I've learned to love its combination of skills and techs, and its skill caps.

Thanks for reading,
Serene

EDIT: Forgot that Wartechers can't use Crossbows...x.X

EDIT 2: Reisei-Sou is the ice bow BA. Got it, thanks Rath.

EDIT 3: Updated pallettes by request. Hope you people are happy, and sorry for the update wait. Just LMK what you want updated, I'll be right on it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2006-12-17 12:55 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2006-12-17 13:08 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2006-12-28 16:45 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2006-12-28 18:02 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2007-01-26 19:57 ]</font>

[Jaysky]

Wow man, how long did this thing take you to make? Very nice.

[DonRoyale]

Thanks, dude.

Liek, 1 and a half hours. ;_;

I could've made about 10k meseta on PSU in that time ._.

Hey, PJ, that Noel thing is going to haunt me forever http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[Kent]

Yeah, a really nice guide.

I mean, I play a Wartecher, and I never knew they could use Crossbows...

http://synbios.net/games/PSU/wartecher.jpg

...Oh wait. :/

[Dhylec]

Nice, sticky-listed for reference. Keep updating it if you can.

[Alisha]

OK, you have absurdly high HP, ATP, DFP, and STA, stats that are certainly helpful in the long run. Your low ATA is the whole reason you don't want to be a Beast Wartecher. Again, Yohmei weapons (for ATA and not PP this time), as well as ATA slots, are a huge staple of a Beast Wartecher.

nice guide but dont tenora weapons have more ata and atp/tp than than youmei? and since your a good soloer having a stock of photon chargers shouldnt be a problem i would think.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

thanks, I plan on making my male newman Nattefrost a Wartecher so this would be useful. I really liked the HUnewearl of PSO and I always thought that a HUnewm would be pretty sweet, so this is the next best thing. and ya, I agree about CAST Wartechers, it does seem like a waste of talent, they aren't too much better than humans at melee and their magic, well, nuff said. They'd be better off going Fortefighter or Fighgunner IMO.

[Gamemako]

A newman wartecher is more like a FOmar than a HUnewearl.

Man, I will be able to use wartecher with my GT/PT CAST. I'll steal some equipment from my WT just to prove to you dolts that WT CASTs can kick some serious ass.

Alisha, it depends on the weapon. Yohmei normally has the highest ATA, but for twin daggers, TW has higher ATA (and GRM has the highest ATP, strangely). It really depends on the specific weapon.

[-Shimarisu-]

Yohmei wands are utter junk.

[Gamemako]

Indeed; GRM have slightly less PP and a whole ton more TP if you need PP and Tenora lose a whole TON of PP but have slightly more power than GRM.

[Laranas]

On 2006-12-17 06:40, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Yohmei wands are utter junk.For once, I agree with you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Unfortunately I can't use this fantastic guide because my character is being built around all 3 techers PA-wise. But good work!

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2006-12-17 06:28, Gamemako wrote:
A newman wartecher is more like a FOmar than a HUnewearl.

Man, I will be able to use wartecher with my GT/PT CAST. I'll steal some equipment from my WT just to prove to you dolts that WT CASTs can kick some serious ass.

Alisha, it depends on the weapon. Yohmei normally has the highest ATA, but for twin daggers, TW has higher ATA (and GRM has the highest ATP, strangely). It really depends on the specific weapon.



ya, I'm quite aware of that. but yeah, a blade wielder w/ pointy ears who isn't wasting his technic skills is what I meant. and Shima, thanks for the info about Yohmei wands sucking, they're PP does seem a little low compared to GRM or Tenora. I think I'll get my hands on some GRM wands instead now for both my Guntecher and Wartecher.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2006-12-17 08:35 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

I <3 my pointy ears. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

GRM is a good choice if you use a lot of techs. More PP for more healing and buffs/debuffs as a guntecher as well. Wartecher might benefit from TW wands if you're using them for damage.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

ok, thanks for the info, I've been wasting some $ on Yohmei wands, hearing people say that Yohmei has weapons best suited for Forces. Although I may have to go Yohmei for A rank and higher so that I can show off, although the Shintsuki-zashi would go first.

[Gamemako]

Last Survivor > Shintsuki-zashi. 'Nuff said.

[DonRoyale]

I still need to find out the stats for Wartecher. Can someone do me a favor? I can't run PSU right now, but can someone compare stats for classes and rank them? For example:

HP:
Hunter:A
Ranger:B
Force:D

But for Wartechers, and for all stats? That's all I really need to complete the guide.

I may do guides for other expert classes, what do you guys think?

[Feelmirath]

Reisei-sou is the name of the ice bow ;o

[DonRoyale]

Thanks. Updated that.

Also updated the fact that we can't use Crossbows. My bad D=

[huntlyon]

can I get some quick advice on how to slum through 5 levels of force with leveling some useful techs in the process?

long story short-
level 15 human, level 3 hunter, purchased a bow, resta, reverser, and the ground element bow PA.

should I just bother with Deega, tag with a handgun/bow, and settle for healbot through dragon runs to expedite? it would seem prudent to save up for the gi-level spells to focus on them rather that bother with many of the lesser offensive techs, but I could be wrong

[DonRoyale]

On 2006-12-17 19:04, huntlyon wrote:
can I get some quick advice on how to slum through 5 levels of force with leveling some useful techs in the process?

long story short-
level 15 human, level 3 hunter, purchased a bow, resta, reverser, and the ground element bow PA.

should I just bother with Deega, tag with a handgun/bow, and settle for healbot through dragon runs to expedite? it would seem prudent to save up for the gi-level spells to focus on them rather that bother with many of the lesser offensive techs, but I could be wrong



Naw, do yourself a favor. Use a Dagger (if you feel like levelling the PA as a Force), Handgun or Longbow to tag big enemies (like Ragan, Kog Nadd, Dummygolus, and whatnot) for EXP, and just spam your healing. For humans, attack techs aren't really useful. Plus, they're kinda slow. =

[huntlyon]

On 2006-12-17 19:32, SereneShadows wrote:

On 2006-12-17 19:04, huntlyon wrote:
can I get some quick advice on how to slum through 5 levels of force with leveling some useful techs in the process?

long story short-
level 15 human, level 3 hunter, purchased a bow, resta, reverser, and the ground element bow PA.

should I just bother with Deega, tag with a handgun/bow, and settle for healbot through dragon runs to expedite? it would seem prudent to save up for the gi-level spells to focus on them rather that bother with many of the lesser offensive techs, but I could be wrong



Naw, do yourself a favor. Use a Dagger (if you feel like levelling the PA as a Force), Handgun or Longbow to tag big enemies (like Ragan, Kog Nadd, Dummygolus, and whatnot) for EXP, and just spam your healing. For humans, attack techs aren't really useful. Plus, they're kinda slow. =



my single dagger and double daggers were all I focused on leveling up the hunter prerequisites. so far I mostly tag/heal and sneak in some deega here and there.. using bows for the boss fights. De Ragan runs are proving the slummers choice, I went from level 1 Fo to level 3 in a day. considering a gi-level spell to start leveling up soon... Gideega? Gifoie?

[Feelmirath]

You can't actually level sword arts on a force. The cap is at 1.

On top of that, attack techs are useful for attack-resistant enemies, like robots, Tengohgs and Kamatozes.

[Reimiko]

Why is there absolutely no mention of knuckles, or claw/twinclaw yet there's mention of other A rank melee weapons. Just curious. are they bad somehow on a wartecher? and if so what are the disadvantages?

[Alisha]

personal preference i guess? the current knuckle pa doesnt provide much damage.same goes for dual claw butthey both have good normal combos.

[Gamemako]

Knuckle isn't that bad, but twin claws are useless to males (you will ALWAYS get hit before the third attack, and the current PA sucks).

[Keyzo34541]

So far from my experience (I've made newman/human/beast WT) i really like newman the best so far, but thats just my preference. I do think beasts are better atm though, due to the fact that there arent many maps with mellee resistant monsters out there at this time to take advantage of the newmans distinct technic dmg, but who knows what the new maps will bring.

[Fin]

Any newman wartechers know when they can equip a claw? I'm at 59/5 and still have 20 atp to go.... /cry

[Keyzo34541]

Well you won't gain anymore then 5 or so atp in the next lvl...so youll have to work on those jobs to get those claws.

[panzer_unit]

This thread convinced me to do WT as an alternate character when I get the chance.

I'm interested because it's a pretty well-rounded job as opposed to fT, and should play differently enough from my Protranser that I'm interested.

A couple things I'm looking at:
* Focusing on Ra and Gi spells will give you the ability to do some AOE damage, which the rest of your weapon selection completely lacks. WT's defensive stats mean they can also get aggressive about hitting as many mobs as possible with Gi techs, which is risky for a ForteTecher to do in S rank missions.
* Cards / Bows + high base ATP should keep WT respectable for ranged damage with other hybrid classes.
* Even Casts don't do _terrible_ for spellcasting, they should end up with maybe 70% of a Newman's total TAP since the low class modifier makes a high power wand worth at least half of your total score.

[BahnKnakyu]

I'd like to comment against the use of Twin Sabers. As much as I love them myself, since you're giving a guide on what is considered "optimum" equipment for a WT, Twin Sabers are probably not the best to use only because of a few factors:
* Only 5 hits.
* They don't hit terribly hard
* Normal moveset is laggy
* No access to the 3rd combo of the Twin Saber that IMO makes it worth it.

I would replace the Twin Saber with a Gun/Wand combo. I usually carry two sets of wands myself - one for resta/reverser (duh), and a second wand for the area I'm hunting in.


Now to the fun part, the one where I've the most experience. Newman Wartechers are the best Wartechers you'll ever have. Period. No contest, nuff said, good game n00b.

I also respectfully disagree, only because of the native stats of a Newman. The class bonus can compensate for their lack of ATP, but Newmans are still inherently more focused towards teching (I'd say 60/40) as a WT compared to the other races - they don't have the base stats to take hits like the other three races do nor the base ATP to dish out significant melee damage. The class bonuses for WT also favor TAP than ATP more, which means in the end, although you may be doing more tech damage, you'll have to rely on that more to do decent numbers rather than your melee (which would require high ground weapons to compensate).

[imfanboy]

Exactly why I went with it, Panzer.

As a wartecher, you can fit into almost any team.

You have melee.

You have technics, mostly for healing (because quite honestly it isn't much damage, even with Diga, at the highest levels).

And more important, you have access to bows. As we all know, 2 bosses (Dimma and Onma) REQUIRE a decent, powerful ranged weapon, and the high base ATA of those cover up the main flaw of the WT (low ATA).

Plus, IMHO, it's the strongest solo class for farming, and sometimes you just don't want to share. XD

But you underestimate the TP strength that both Newmen and Humans have as Wartechers. My Human heals easy for 500-600 max with a 5* GRM Wand, whereas a Cast would be at about the same level as my Guntecher (around 400 with a Tenora wand). I haven't watched any Newman WTs heal, but it'd have to be a fair big higher than my Wartecher.

[Gamemako]

On 2006-12-21 10:13, BahnKnakyu wrote:
I'd like to comment against the use of Twin Sabers. As much as I love them myself, since you're giving a guide on what is considered "optimum" equipment for a WT, Twin Sabers are probably not the best to use only because of a few factors:
* Only 5 hits.
* They don't hit terribly hard
* Normal moveset is laggy
* No access to the 3rd combo of the Twin Saber that IMO makes it worth it.



I disagree quite wholly. Rising Crush's combo is far and away the second. The third one actually serves to the detriment of your team and yourself especially. It launches the few enemies it hits far away where you can't get to them. Thus, it's quite useless unless you're getting mobbed, and even then you're a wartecher -- the most defensively capable class in the entire game. What good is it? The first two combos, by contrast, can toss a sum total of 8 enemies skyward, where they can be easily hit while in the air and when they land. Watch me wade into a mob of Jishagara, toss them all skyward, and then finish the job with Gifoie -- I can get off 3 casts by the time they all get up and run out of range, and then you have your teammates who take this oppotunity to abuse the twin dagger PA while they can't fight back. Using the 3rd combo at all would prevent my mass slaughter quite wholly. The effect of the PA is what really matters, and that effect makes it one of the best PAs in the game.

[panzer_unit]

On 2006-12-21 10:28, imfanboy wrote:

You have technics, mostly for healing (because quite honestly it isn't much damage, even with Diga, at the highest levels).
...
But you underestimate the TP strength that both Newmen and Humans have as Wartechers. My Human heals easy for 500-600 max with a 5* GRM Wand, whereas a Cast would be at about the same level as my Guntecher (around 400 with a Tenora wand). I haven't watched any Newman WTs heal, but it'd have to be a fair big higher than my Wartecher.



I'd expect a Cast WT to have about 3/4 the TP of a Human and cast spells with corresponding efficiency. That's not a bad deal at all.

Personally I'd be going for the Gi techs most on a WT. You'll probably beat all the basic techs for damage with a bow... but it's just too much to ask for any single-target attack to compare with slamming 4+ mobs at a time for even relatively low numbers.

Shotguns are the same way, even with low base ATP like Protransers have they still far outdamage bows hit-for-hit at point blank... despite the bow's high ATP, high element, skill bonus, and ignoring enemy defense.

[etlitch]

Wartecher should almost be renamed to block techer. My lv24 human WT using tenora armour blocks a C-run svaltuss attacks at around 75% rate or so. It's really awesome. I'd like to see a female newman WT's EVP with tenora armour and EVP unit.

[Gamemako]

On 2006-12-22 12:18, etlitch wrote:
Wartecher should almost be renamed to block techer. My lv24 human WT using tenora armour blocks a C-run svaltuss attacks at around 75% rate or so. It's really awesome. I'd like to see a female newman WT's EVP with tenora armour and EVP unit.



Try a female newman fortetecher with TW armor and an EVA unit. That's uber blockage. Of course, you have one slight problem...

...they still die in one hit.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2006-12-21 10:43, Gamemako wrote:

On 2006-12-21 10:13, BahnKnakyu wrote:
I'd like to comment against the use of Twin Sabers. As much as I love them myself, since you're giving a guide on what is considered "optimum" equipment for a WT, Twin Sabers are probably not the best to use only because of a few factors:
* Only 5 hits.
* They don't hit terribly hard
* Normal moveset is laggy
* No access to the 3rd combo of the Twin Saber that IMO makes it worth it.



I disagree quite wholly. Rising Crush's combo is far and away the second. The third one actually serves to the detriment of your team and yourself especially. It launches the few enemies it hits far away where you can't get to them.



well, its not detrimental when you're doing it to prevent Vandas, Deljabans, or S rank Gohmons from breathing fire/casting barta or megid or whatever, or against a boss or big guy that won't get blown away. I see it as more defensive than offensive in the case of magic casting monsters, but ya, I try not to use it on a mob that isn't too threatening.

but back to topic, I just played w/ 2 female newman wartechers last night on S Neudaiz and they were both really helpful, they are just as good as Fortetechers when it comes to healing and they can hold their own against physical attacks.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2006-12-23 05:21 ]</font>

[etlitch]

It's detrimental since flipping them already in the first combo already prevents them from casting stuff, and sending them away from your party members only causes them to cast more. Remember that they'l try to melee you instead if you're close to them. Knocking them away does not lessen the distance between you and them.

I usually just keep one high* yohmei twinsaber in inventory for my wartech just to use the PA for flipping things over when it's needed. It's not that good as a main weapon.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

hey guys, what do you think about Fans/Cards that only have bullets up to level 10? Because I saw someone using them last night while doing S runs in Neudaiz and I thought that they were totally awesome and that I'll like them on either of my male newman who's a future wartecher.

[ShinMaruku]

On 2006-12-23 01:09, Gamemako wrote:

On 2006-12-22 12:18, etlitch wrote:
Wartecher should almost be renamed to block techer. My lv24 human WT using tenora armour blocks a C-run svaltuss attacks at around 75% rate or so. It's really awesome. I'd like to see a female newman WT's EVP with tenora armour and EVP unit.



Try a female newman fortetecher with TW armor and an EVA unit. That's uber blockage. Of course, you have one slight problem...

...they still die in one hit.


As it should be. XD

[PALRAPPYS]

Something I have to say. If I were a Wartecher, I know I'd bring around 2-3 wands. Not kidding. Make good use of the spells you have... I mean seriously, I love spells and couldn't stand only having 2 spells equipped to me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Oh well otherwise it's a great guide!

[huntlyon]

I could use a bit of intermediate advice.. I've been essentially powerleveling to WT status and could use some equipment help.

the rundown...

been just using double daggers, dagger/gun, wand/gun, and bows on my palette. the only spells I've learned are Diga, Gidiga, Resta, and Reverser. the only PAs I really have are the basic dagger, 2xdagger, burning hit, and the Ground based bow PA. level 29, human, about half way into level 1 MP-wise... my gear is utter crap, but so far I hold my own in any B mission and even the occassional A mission that I don't automatically get booted out of for being a low level. many of my PA skills are in the teens.. but I'll definitely want to diversify once I start to cap off Diga, basic dagger, and basic 2x dagger. I keep about 3 wands paletted now just to level up the skills... spamming techs whenever possible to get them to max. I finally opened up a shop to start selling off all the the crap in storage I won't use.. so hopefully I'll start making some cash finally now.

the questions..

Should I really attempt to grind out some C wand to plus 10 rather than use a B wand? Should I really bother with anything other than Survivors series daggers? when the hell to cards become an option? armor advice? slot advice? a spear to give myself melee with a little more range? should I level up any other basic or gi-level techs?

as soon as S/D and J/Z sets become available I intend to be a total support character... but until then I'll settle for meleeing healbot...

[initial_J]

On 2006-12-23 17:47, huntlyon wrote:
Should I really attempt to grind out some C wand to plus 10 rather than use a B wand? Should I really bother with anything other than Survivors series daggers? when the hell to cards become an option? armor advice? slot advice? a spear to give myself melee with a little more range? should I level up any other basic or gi-level techs?

I guess you could grind your C wands if you are short on cash. A good B rank wand to shoot for is the Crozier. Try looking in player shops. Those run around 20-25k.

By Survivor series, do you mean the brand? That's up to you. If you do more attacking than casting, lean toward Yomei for more PP unless you don't mind swapping out weapons more often. For weapon selection I would stick with single daggers and sabers for a little while because they have lower atp requirements than 2 handed weapons allowing you to use weapons with better ata.

Cards? Never. Ok I'm kidding...almost never. I have a level 46 Newman Wartecher 3 and I'm 2 or 3 character levels away from the 115 ata needed for a Kikami. The kubara card weapon requires 10 less ata but is very expensive from what I've seen.

For Armor, Te-Senba has treated me well for many levels. It has Light on it so you only have to be careful when fighting in the colony. Being human it has the 3 slots you actually need. Slap in a Mega/Knight or Power for the arm, a Sta/Force for the head, and a Mega/Wall for the body.

Don't bother leveling barta or zonde, and at the very least pick up foi and rafoi. The Gi techs are more expensive and you can grab some of them later.

[Nani-chan]

Grinding C is great if tp requirement can't use B. As a Cast Guntecher I use a C 2* W'ganba (7) but I'm sure a B (5) would be better if I could use it.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I played with some Newman Wartechers like 2 days ago in Mizuraki S and I have to say that they kicked some major ass. Also, I played as my Newman Hunter who is going for Wartecher and I didn't think that it was all that bad. That said, I'm sure that Newman Wartechers would be a fine choice, and so may a CAST Wartecher.

[Natrokos]

On 2006-12-23 17:37, PALRAPPYS wrote:
Something I have to say. If I were a Wartecher, I know I'd bring around 2-3 wands. Not kidding. Make good use of the spells you have... I mean seriously, I love spells and couldn't stand only having 2 spells equipped to me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Oh well otherwise it's a great guide!



I have the following:
M Newman Wartecher lvl 59 / 5
wand/gun
wand/gun
wand/fan
bow
twin claws (technically 4 atp away but alrdy bought them.)
twin sabers

This may not be the perfect setup but if I cared about being perfect I would've probably stuck to F newman fortecher....

This is a fantastic guide and I applaud the creator for taking his/her time to make it!...But when it boils down to it it is just that, a guide...If you want to have more wands or want to use different weapons go right ahead. There is no perfect set up because everyone has a different opinion about what weapons are good/bad.... Once again I reiterate, fantastic guide! I meant no offense to anyone.

P.S. I intend to replace claws/sabers with S rank twin daggers/dagger when I actually get my hands on them...Until then I'm going to sticks with claws and sabers

[BahnKnakyu]

My weapon setup changes a LOT depending on what area I go to. Stuff that stays on me are the following, however:

6* Tenora Handgun/Wand
6* Tenora Handgun/Single Dagger
Gun/Saber

FOr the remaining three slots, I interchange between a variety of weapons depending on the area.
Gun/Single Dagger
Spear
Twin Sabers
Gun/Wand
Twin Daggers
Bow

I find myself changing weapons a LOT whenever I transition between areas. A lot of my decisions are based on what weapons I actually have the element bonuses for and what the grind of the weapons are at that time.

[BahnKnakyu]

I'd also like to point out a couple of things, I again apologize if I sound like I'm nitpicking on your guide Serene.

The way the guide is saying things, it seems to state that you are either gonna go all-tech or all-hunter as a Wartecher (similar to how as a FO you could go strictly melee or strictly FO). I personally think that an equipment setup should allow for on-the-fly changes to what's going on around you. I don't believe one should ALWAYS be HUing or ALWAYS be FOing, and to reflect that train of thought, your armor, units, and action palette setup should match that. To me, it's as simple as being decked out in mostly HU gear and taking a decently ground 5-6* wand linked with your favorite techs with you. It's not like PSO where everything had to be modified if you wanted to go from a melee to tech setup. You pretty much turn into a caster the moment you switch to that wand. The WT's natural TP bonus will allow you to get away with being a ghetto Fortetecher for a short while.

[imfanboy]

For me, the Wartecher is about versatility.

If you're in a party with mostly hunters and no other FOs, then keep at least 2-3 wands on the Action Pallatte with Resta ready, and make sure to have a close eye on their HP totals - you can resta up to about 600-800 tops, so be conscious that for the fortefighters you might have to resta twice to fill them up.

If you're in a party with mostly techers, feel free to only have ONE wand on the pallatte, if that, and go nuts with the melee. Stick to spears and daggers so you don't send enemies flying (that'll help out your fortetecher friends) UNLESS there's a particularly dangerous enemy that you don't dare let stay standing (Vandas with their firebreath comes to mind, especially the champion/captain bastards), in which case you should have single claws/single sabers close to hand.

If you're in a party with, say, a fortetecher who can focus on support but mostly hunters or rangers otherwise, keep your wands handy (preferably with resta/reverser just in case he goes down to an attack or freezes), but melee as much as you can to speed up the process.


I can't really speak for the gi techs, none of them grab me as of yet, but the only wartechers who should try and spam them are probably newmans. With lower ATP, they need every bit they can get; and gibartaing a group then switching to twin dags to keep them controlled could get nasty.

What I'M waiting for are the DAMU techs. Sure, they'll empty out a wand fast - but with a decent skill level you can freeze entire charging groups without having to worry about a lucky one slipping past and beating you to death (unlike fortetechers!)

[Shiro_Ryuu]

well, I now have a Wartecher so I guess I can say something. For one, I would have to say to have a resta wand and whatever melee weapon ur gonna use pulled out for at least a few seconds everytime you enter a new block. dunno if this can be said about a boss. Like, for example, pull out your resta wand, wait for resta to load up so that you can use it, and then, pull out your twin daggers or whatever. this way, when you heal yourself or your friends when needed without having to wati like 5-10 seconds, cuz you will be doing at least SOME melee, and you can't have a melee and a wand at the same time [unfortunately]

[BahnKnakyu]

On 2006-12-27 18:52, imfanboy wrote:
I can't really speak for the gi techs, none of them grab me as of yet, but the only wartechers who should try and spam them are probably newmans. With lower ATP, they need every bit they can get; and gibartaing a group then switching to twin dags to keep them controlled could get nasty.

I disagree, this is similar to saying the only Wartechers that should be going melee are Beast ones, and that's not necessarily true. Human Wartechers are best built for nuking IMO, since the Gi techs require you to be in the middle of a huge mob of monsters to do considerable damage. Human Wartechers have the stats to take the hits while in that mob and enough natural MST to back the damage the nuking does. Newmans have the TP, but they're somewhat fragile, so it's not as easy to rush into a group and go nuts with the spamming compared to Humans.

But really, the class is all about sacrificing LOLHUEGDMG potential for versatility, and I really think Sega took a lot of time into creating this class because of that sole reason. Essentially, there is hardly a time where you *won't* be useful, because if you're in a party that has too many ranged-based characters, you'll be able to be the Hunter, whereas if you're in a party full of Hunters, you can easily be a FO (while STILL being able to smack stuff around with the HUs).

I do hope this thread inspires some people to make a WT. They're still somewhat uncommon to find in parties (a little more common than GTs and PTs) but it's definitely a class I feel is underrated by many because of the lack of an immediate "payoff" to playing it.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I dunno, Wartechers seem to be more and more common, but the majority seem to be Newmans, including myself.

[Sharkyland]

I'm surprised you don't have barta on there (definitely great for sleeping warriors since the further you are away the enemies will line up and if they come close make them line up again)... think of it as your ice laser cannon shot. Probably one of the few techniques that can hit all the enemies in a line. Nice for tagging too...

The only thing that I like about Wartecher is... they are practically a HUnewearl cept that they can now use Megid and Grants and Giresta (sounds so silly when I say that). If SDJZ is very similar to what it is on PSO. Each level being a %, and not correspondant to your TP power. Then Beast would definitely overpower the other 3 (atp wise) while newmans are overly strong tp wise.

Though another thing that is nice is if you are SHOCKED, you can still use techs. If you are SILENCED, you can still use photon arts. Why wait?

---

I'm a newman female wartecher (Pink Mag), and I'm pretty much used to it since. Thanks to the PSO HUnewearl class. I'm mostly attack for the most part but if there is an area that seems like trouble like Gohmon's and their ice move... I'll switch to full support.

Seems a lot of people who have parties with no force will grab a wartecher.

---

Yohmei stuff is so-so, but they are great when you get them for free. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Cometera is nice for us poor people. Now if only I could find some more with my silly beast fortetecher.

I haven't tried the cards yet... they don't look like anything special to me (besides they home in towards the enemy). I don't have the highest pistol right now so I can't seem to see how they compare just yet.

Also, I want to get one of each element... so far I have picked:
- foie, for burning and % power
- barta, for freezing and tagging
- (need a good zonde attribute, zonde is just so thin)
- diga, for silence and % power
- megid, (thinking about that vampire sucking one), megid will be last on my list including that megid flamethrower thingie
- grants, grants... i guess

I never bother with the RA techs since the most it can hit is 3 enemies at a time, and I've been always curious which enemies get hit by that attack when they are all clustered together. GI techs can hit the most of 6 enemies, but i haven't seen some of the range of the lvl 11-20 techs and they aren't that bad.

Hmm... I'll add more later. If something comes to mind.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sharkyland on 2006-12-29 04:58 ]</font>

[Alisha]

i'm planning to be a beast F wartecher and i'm already dreading the 5 force levels. do you get it over with first or save it till after you level hunter to 3. for this reason alone i may hold off until support techs are released so i can skill them as a beast force.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Im not sure. Personally, as a newman, I went Hunter first, being too worried about everyone here saying "Newman Hunters suck", but I realized that it wasn't so bad. Don't worry though, I found out that the newman hunter really isn't so bad so you don't have to worry too much about Beast forces, I don't think they'll be too bad either. but just to be on the safe side, I would go beast force first, and then hunter, since its kinda tough to catch up when you're level 10-20 and your job level is still at one.

[Alisha]

On 2006-12-22 12:18, etlitch wrote:
Wartecher should almost be renamed to block techer. My lv24 human WT using tenora armour blocks a C-run svaltuss attacks at around 75% rate or so. It's really awesome. I'd like to see a female newman WT's EVP with tenora armour and EVP unit.



just wait till zodial/zodeel are out. whats sweet is if you get hit/block during a gi tech it still goes off. the windows for canceling gi techs is very small. the only thing that sucks is melee attacks that cant be evaded like tengoghs/jusnaguns headbutt attack.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

yeah, I agree that wartechers have great EVP, my wartecher is a newman, so that just adds to the bonus. some people don't like EVP for hunters but to me, it helps, especially with Svaltus sword swings that lower defense. I don't care if I waste PP while evading, its better than hp, PP generates itself anyway, and I still have my normal attacks.

[BahnKnakyu]

On 2006-12-29 05:43, Shiroryuu wrote:
Im not sure. Personally, as a newman, I went Hunter first, being too worried about everyone here saying "Newman Hunters suck", but I realized that it wasn't so bad. Don't worry though, I found out that the newman hunter really isn't so bad so you don't have to worry too much about Beast forces, I don't think they'll be too bad either. but just to be on the safe side, I would go beast force first, and then hunter, since its kinda tough to catch up when you're level 10-20 and your job level is still at one.

Newman hunters aren't bad - they're just not that good. The only thing they have going for in terms of their fighting ability is their high ATA, which Casts have a bit more of (along with better HP and TP). They get outdone by other races (save for Humans) in the essential departments needed for an effective Hunter, but they're OK if you play smart (as any class/race combo is).

I also agree to go Beast FO - you'll want to get Resta/Reverser leveled up, and nothing is easier than leveling up than partying up with a bunch of lower new players - since they may get hit more often than experienced players, you'll have more opportunities to level those skills up. Level 11 Resta is more than sufficient for a Wartecher who's going to be mixing it up with HUs. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Shinryuu wroteyeah, I agree that wartechers have great EVP, my wartecher is a newman, so that just adds to the bonus. some people don't like EVP for hunters but to me, it helps, especially with Svaltus sword swings that lower defense. I don't care if I waste PP while evading, its better than hp, PP generates itself anyway, and I still have my normal attacks.

I also disagree. EVP is killer for Wartechers because of situations where you may get hit by a multihit move that knocks you back. Sure this makes you resistant to Svaltus sword swings (which is a one-hit all-or-nothing swing), but it renders you vulnerable to getting "EVP-comboed" by moves that hit you multiple times.

Prime example: Bil De Vear whirlwind. Normally if you have low DFP and no EVP, you'll get hit for a couple of hits (and probably lose half your HP) but get knocked away to safety, where you can heal yourself and get the Zalure off you. If you choose to forgo DFP for EVP, you may end up getting knocked back for 1 hit, EVADING the next hit, which interrupts your knockback animation (you magically land on your feet), getting hit for the next hit, evading the hit after that and so on and so forth. Essentially, EVP will set you up to get comboed to death, and I've had this happen often enough to teach me that DFP > EVP for a Wartecher.

It may depend on your playstyle, but I think it's better to be generally sturdy so you can take hits like a Hunter rather than having to disengage from the fight because your EVP failed to save you from a hit that will hurt you hard because you preferred to get EVP up rather than your DFP up.

Just my two cents. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BahnKnakyu on 2006-12-29 10:51 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

How are the Wartechers here finding the level 20 cap on Photon Arts? I'm most curious about techs...since you get denies access to Rods AND the cap is level 20.


Is the damage (at the S-rank level), still worthwhile? How important is it to have highly grinded wands?

[Gamemako]

On 2006-12-29 10:43, BahnKnakyu wrote:

On 2006-12-29 05:43, Shiroryuu wrote:
Im not sure. Personally, as a newman, I went Hunter first, being too worried about everyone here saying "Newman Hunters suck", but I realized that it wasn't so bad. Don't worry though, I found out that the newman hunter really isn't so bad so you don't have to worry too much about Beast forces, I don't think they'll be too bad either. but just to be on the safe side, I would go beast force first, and then hunter, since its kinda tough to catch up when you're level 10-20 and your job level is still at one.

Newman hunters aren't bad - they're just not that good. The only thing they have going for in terms of their fighting ability is their high ATA, which Casts have a bit more of (along with better HP and TP). They get outdone by other races (save for Humans) in the essential departments needed for an effective Hunter, but they're OK if you play smart (as any class/race combo is).

I also agree to go Beast FO - you'll want to get Resta/Reverser leveled up, and nothing is easier than leveling up than partying up with a bunch of lower new players - since they may get hit more often than experienced players, you'll have more opportunities to level those skills up. Level 11 Resta is more than sufficient for a Wartecher who's going to be mixing it up with HUs. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Shinryuu wroteyeah, I agree that wartechers have great EVP, my wartecher is a newman, so that just adds to the bonus. some people don't like EVP for hunters but to me, it helps, especially with Svaltus sword swings that lower defense. I don't care if I waste PP while evading, its better than hp, PP generates itself anyway, and I still have my normal attacks.

I also disagree. EVP is killer for Wartechers because of situations where you may get hit by a multihit move that knocks you back. Sure this makes you resistant to Svaltus sword swings (which is a one-hit all-or-nothing swing), but it renders you vulnerable to getting "EVP-comboed" by moves that hit you multiple times.

Prime example: Bil De Vear whirlwind. Normally if you have low DFP and no EVP, you'll get hit for a couple of hits (and probably lose half your HP) but get knocked away to safety, where you can heal yourself and get the Zalure off you. If you choose to forgo DFP for EVP, you may end up getting knocked back for 1 hit, EVADING the next hit, which interrupts your knockback animation (you magically land on your feet), getting hit for the next hit, evading the hit after that and so on and so forth. Essentially, EVP will set you up to get comboed to death, and I've had this happen often enough to teach me that DFP > EVP for a Wartecher.

It may depend on your playstyle, but I think it's better to be generally sturdy so you can take hits like a Hunter rather than having to disengage from the fight because your EVP failed to save you from a hit that will hurt you hard because you preferred to get EVP up rather than your DFP up.

Just my two cents. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BahnKnakyu on 2006-12-29 10:51 ]</font>


Interestingly, I've had the opposite effect with such things, especially the Bil de Vear attack. You are invincible for a short period after blocking, which allows you to get hit only once by the entire move (the hit the smacks you in the ass and tosses you out of the guy's range). And if you're further from him and evade the attack, you can get out of range without getting hit at all.

[Sharkyland]

For my female newman wartecher... I currently am equipped with:

- 5* dual pallasch (4, megid)
- 5* durandal (4, freeze)
- 5* ripper (4, flame)
- 5* bow (0)
- 3* buki oga & 7* cometara (resta/reverser)
- 3* buki oga & 7* cometara (resta/reverser)

- Gigaline
- Mega / Power (to make up for my lack of power)
- Perpa / Guard
- HP / Restorate

I've been basically doing the Mizaruki defense. I'm doing pretty decent, but alone I do pretty crappy damage considering I don't have sdjz. Since I really can't do outstanding damage I'm mostly in full support when the team is busy fighting those gohmons. Not interested in buying A rank weapons yet since my B rank wpns are grinded and are close to the stats of the A weapons (those cometara's were giving to me thanks to 'set in order').

- Mostly I use the dual pallasch to knock the gohmon's off their feet so they can't do the stupid barta while the other two weapons are for killing (ripper & durandal). I still haven't gotten around to buying a good high star pistol yet, so I'm keeping in tact with my 3 star pistols to lengthen the period my cometara's to regenerate.

[BahnKnakyu]

I think I'll go with the way panzer_unit was doing his posts for the PT thread, mainly strategies to keep in mind while you're grouped up with people and different party situations you'll have. Of course, this is all IMHO and stuff, feel free to debate. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

With HUs - If you're the only *techer in the party, then feel free to knock the monsters around silly. Do take note that knocking tight groups of monsters apart tends to decrease your party's DPS and cause more waste of PP - especially if the PAs are capable of hitting several enemies at once. I would say stay near the HUs that tend to get hit a lot and/or get hit for a lot, you'll find that certain HUs will need more support than others.

With RAs - Keep track of what the RAs are trying to do and see what they prefer. If they're a rifle user, feel free to knock stuff all over the place, but if they tend to favor things like Grenade Launchers and Shotguns, you may want to be more considerate about the knockback. If you're gonna knock stuff back, hit them AWAY from the Ranger. I know it's common sense, but it should be said here. Rising Strike and Crush work well if you're partied with mainly RAs. You will probably have to be the meatshield, but your class can take hits, so it's not a real big problem.

With FOs - FOs are generally fragile, you should be considerate if you're partied with a lot of FOs. Do your best to abuse the first hits of Rising Strike, Rising Crush, and the Single Claw PA. Keep as much of the monsters clumped up as possible so you can set up your FO friends for big damage. When they get hurt, don't hesitate to cover them with heals so that they don't have to heal themselves (which may possibly lead to them getting hurt *again*). If you must knock stuff back, knock them away from the FOs (read, forward). If anything, knock them towards the HUs in the party if there are any.

[Nani-chan]

Do twin daggers knock monsters around on their screens? It doesn't on mine. So far I think only twin sabers knock upwards.

I'm liking beast WT so far! If I'm only force I sometimes shouldn't nanoblast on bosses ;_;

[Shiro_Ryuu]

only the 3rd part of the move, which Wartechers can't use.

[EphekZ]

I have a couple things to add to your guide.

1)Humans get a really good boost in stats if they go wartecher.(like everything goes up by 3%)
2) if you can afford to get less ata and you( finally) have enough atp to weild a claw then do it. it's very strong and PA is actually decent. best things is, is that it is Very fast and IMO is way more effective to deal dmg than saber(same atp but less ata) or dagger(a lot more atp and faster). The special for the claw, is like rising strike sort of but it does more dmg and doesnt need to throw enemies in the air to be effective, since it hits the enemy mutliple times.

edit: 3) Get a good spear asap. it has almost as much atp as a hanzo( only 40 difference which is like a 10 dmg difference.) and a lot more ata. if you get dus daggas to lvl 11-20 it becomes a very useful weapon to mob and even enemies that have multiple targets.
on the 12th there will be a new PA for it, not sure how exactly it works but it could make it a good exp getter since it looks like it works like twin dagger PA.

edit#2: 4) your comment about newmans and the walking juggernautness. all classes will have the same stat bonus from the techs, since it's lvl dependant. now
if you're saying your stats wont matter once you get the techs then ok, but it seems to me like you're suggesting that newmans will get the best of the support techs.



This is a pretty good guide by the way =)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkgunner on 2007-01-03 10:46 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-02 21:34, BahnKnakyu wrote:
I think I'll go with the way panzer_unit was doing his posts for the PT thread, mainly strategies to keep in mind while you're grouped up with people and different party situations you'll have. Of course, this is all IMHO and stuff, feel free to debate. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


A couple thoughts...
Hitting with a Bow is really the best support for a hunter or anyone who's up close and personal on the offensive (rangers with shotguns, forces with Gi techs). It's SE2 even for WT's so you can tag Freeze or Paralysis decently and stuns the monster a little on every hit too.

RA's trying to use a Laser Cannon and Forces using any of the basic/linear attack techs are the most sensitive about having their targets scattered. Don't worry much about knocking a RA's grenade targets all over unless he's trying to grind bullet art levels. Grenades send small creatures flying as much as some PA's do.

[huntlyon]

This may be common sense, but I'm using pretty crap gear and doing pretty respectable of damage for my level- specialize your PAs.. I'm leveling one strike, one single target tech, and one Gi until each is maxxed... only then will I try something new out. don't spread out and try everything under the sun, that's what offline is for. my offensive techs are doing decent damage compared to fortechers who buy every tech they can and switch it up rather than spam to max level... solo A Run linear lines (41/3WT) with 2 AIs ( and my PM when I get her leveled to 80 tomorrow) are providing decent exp, great PA leveling, and decent farming to deal with my "ain't got no meseta and I just blew 15 nanocarbons on a failed synth blues." no party distractions = no hunters using their spinning tornado to make using gi-techs a living hell.

just last night I had a group take me into some S ranks for the first time, as the only force no less- we did Neudaiz and Moatoob- zero fatalities. frankly, I assumed I'd get a boot the second I tried any S rank at my level, but we were rocking... healing, curing, MOB control... a little bit of nanny work, but I'm scoring PA frags at level 40- huzzah!


good crap, I'm loving this class to death and we still don't have our buffs yet.... all of which I will proceed to spam the crap out of in zone to max out... something I've learned is possible from story mode.

[SolomonGrundy]

huntlyon

what race are you?

[ycavan]

I've got a level 28 beast wartecher and I'm loving it. My fave attack is gibarta, soo far. When I'm running dry on the wands, I'll switch to dual swords or saber/gun just to whack at things. 'n then you have the nanoblast. *shrugs* When things go skyward, a trusty bow w/ rifle range helps a LOT.

w/ my striking PM, I do linear line A runs at a decent pace with no fatalities.

If I'm in a hurry, though, I tend to do De Ragaan runs... 'n since everyone needs neu ash, Neudaiz runs. lol

[huntlyon]

On 2007-01-04 11:49, SolomonGrundy wrote:
huntlyon

what race are you?



human.... I'm so vanilla

[SolomonGrundy]

human.... I'm so vanilla



No way dude, humans are the best race for WarTecher.

I'm a female newman. so more of a warTECHER, than WARtecher.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-05 16:01 ]</font>

[BahnKnakyu]

Before someone posts about it, I'd like to note for people to please be aware that Wartechers will NOT match the damage of a pure forteFighter or forteTecher. They are not meant to. You will do roughly 1/2 - 3/4ths the damage of a fF or fT that is equipped like you are. The only way to really make up for these deficits is to grind your equipment or get higher rank stuff. You sacrifice this damage dealing capability for versatility, and because of that you may (like I do) feel gimped in a party full of fFs and fTs, but again, the whole reason why the WT class is great is your ability to float between both sides.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-05 15:51, BahnKnakyu wrote:
Before someone posts about it, I'd like to note for people to please be aware that Wartechers will NOT match the damage of a pure forteFighter or forteTecher. They are not meant to. You will do roughly 1/2 - 3/4ths the damage of a fF or fT that is equipped like you are.


Bullshit. I levelleved alongside a beast forte of the same level on JP, and consistently did 3/4s his damage.... did I say I was female and he was male?

At job level 10 fortes get 135% ATP. WTs get... 100%. Half damage? Hardly. In fact such a neglible difference, and when buffs come out, SOLO WTs will equal that damage anyway. There's a small modifier in ATP for the higher level PAs vut that still does not add up to twice the damage, not even remotely. You're going to be doing better damage than most melee players if you choose your race wisely. If you go newmen, then forget the comparison, yep you'll pump out halkf that of a forte because well, moist fortes are not newmen. I don't like newmen in this race anyway. They only get average ATP and crippled TP compared to a fortetecher. If you are going to go for this race I think you should at least excel in ONE area, and you can't excel in TAP, so why not have ATP nearly as good as a forte class? BTW 3/4ths is NEARLY AS GOOD. It's comparable to PSO hunewearls vs. hucasts, but hunewwearls were STILL a better solo character and WTs are the best solo class in PSU hands down.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-01-05 16:00 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

At job level 10 fortes get 135% ATP. WTs get... 100%. Half damage? Hardly. In fact such a neglible difference, and when buffs come out, SOLO WTs will equal that damage anyway.


Buffs are already out in item form.
Buffs increase your ATP with no weapon equiped by a %. This means that a character with high ATP will benefit more from buffs than a character with low ATP.

Your Female agtal Beast Wartecher will not hit as hard as a Male agtal Beast Fortefighter. The 3/4 as hard may be possible though.

[Nani-chan]

On 2007-01-05 16:09, SolomonGrundy wrote:

At job level 10 fortes get 135% ATP. WTs get... 100%. Half damage? Hardly. In fact such a neglible difference, and when buffs come out, SOLO WTs will equal that damage anyway.


Buffs are already out in item form.
Buffs increase your ATP with no weapon equiped by a %. This means that a character with high ATP will benefit more from buffs than a character with low ATP.

Your Female agtal Beast Wartecher will not hit as hard as a Male agtal Beast Fortefighter. The 3/4 as hard may be possible though.



Obviously, that would be broken and then noone would be fortefighter.

The WT to pure fighter population is pretty good right now. 1/5ths or less is perfect. If I have to put away the melee weapons abd be the pt's healer then that's fine. (The only WT you should have problems with are the ones who won't be healers to maximize pt's output)

A WT can function fine as a pt's healer. I'd rather be a WT than a FT since I can melee when there is one other force or if people don't get hit.

[SolomonGrundy]

Obviously, that would be broken and then noone would be fortefighter.

not obvious to some....




(The only WT you should have problems with are the ones who won't be healers to maximize pt's output)

A WT can function fine as a pt's healer. I'd rather be a WT than a FT since I can melee when there is one other force or if people don't get hit.



Word. I intend to play a Female Newman WT, and mostly use techs/support though I'm unsure of what to use in my offhand (2 bullets from cards are...uninspiring)

[Nani-chan]

either go blank for accuracy or ice/dark since those will still be half decent at se1 or bosses.

[Alisha]

i've tested the durations the agdeal item = lvl 10 shifta wich means 5% more attack for a wartecher with shifta 11+. plus a wartecher can cast zalure. the only thing that makes me sad about wartechers is that they dont get to use swords.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-05 23:01, Alisha wrote:
i've tested the durations the agdeal item = lvl 10 shifta wich means 5% more attack for a wartecher with shifta 11+. plus a wartecher can cast zalure. the only thing that makes me sad about wartechers is that they dont get to use swords.



according to everyone else the shifta item is 4 mins = 21+ shifta

[SolomonGrundy]

(double post)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-08 17:54 ]</font>

[huntlyon]

this will be a fun update for this class... however, there will be a bit of choices to be made. SDJZ and the lightning element buff/debuffs are no brainers.. the solo/farming potential for me in somewhere like sleeping warriors A is phenomenal... I can handle it at level 43, but progress is a little slow with low battle level PM... damn player shops overcharging nanocarbon... feh


what I can't seem to figure out is what to do with these damn PMs I've slowly been acquiring... Megistar would be tops if it did make the cut, but I wonder what others have planned.. I favor spears and single daggers, but could consider the offhand bullet PAs to have decent damage output for J/Zing, even if the cap is only 10.

[nooblet]

Im lvl 46 and trying to upgrade my daggers, which twin and single dagger should I aim for that will last me for a while? Theres so many choices, I was leaning towards the grm crea ones but then was told the yohemei ones were better.

[Gamemako]

Twin daggers? I'd go with the 6-star GRM daggers, Last Survivor. They have the highest ATP of the grindable twins (and more than the 7-star Yohmei twins as well). Buy a good elemental set and grind it well. As for single daggers, I'd recommend the 6-star Tenora dagger, Daga Sabbaba. Again, highest ATP of the bunch, and good ATA to boot.

[-Shimarisu-]

Wartechers need all the ATA they can get, so I'd recommend the Tenora double daggers over the others, 8* Yohmei when affordable.

[Nani-chan]

I don't really think WT need as much ata as possible. I soloed a block of lvl 60 ( M.Defense) monsters as lvl 44 Beast F. (Just got bored that I had to recharge PP every 1.5 waves due to PA spam)

I seem to own mostly 6* Grm weapons.. I think they are just cheaper/more available. When I get my PM up I may try to make 6* tenoras.

I tend to use spears for dmg, twin saber for knockdown and twin daggers PA for nanoblast charging.

I think I'm playing the class wrong. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[nooblet]

Im not really a big fan of grinding, lost 1 survivor yesturday with lvl 3 luck at 2>3. So I try to avoid that. Thanks all, Ill try to look at the tenora more.

[-Shimarisu-]

High % is more important than grinding on hunter weapons.

[BLACKR0SE]

I still think wT should have S wands with B swords that can hold techs like ethan in online mode.

[ShinMaruku]

I'm damn well glad the the daggers are S rank because they sure are what I need for them huge tjings just would need some support... boy leveling hunter will be a pain... but worht it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[delukard]

Hi im a lv 56 wartecher 4 rank. and im leveling techs . if someone wants to join in see me on universe 1 or 2 in linear line missions(A)
my techs:
.-RA techs are lv 19 ATM
.-foie and diga are lv 20 barta 6 and zonde 1.
.-gi techs i started on gidiga and it's lv 12.
.-dual sabers,dual daggers,sword,saber(weapons i use) are lv 20(capped)
.-the pistol PA.i have the 4 elemnts on lv 10(caped)
.-i'll concentrate on leveling to 20 the ra so i can start to level up to 11 the gi techs.
So if your can cast techs and want to focus one day session to lv techs join me my characters name is
ISAAC JAVIER DLUKARD. IM ON THE 360

[Nani-chan]

On 2007-01-08 14:47, delukard wrote:
.....sword....(weapons i use) are lv 20(capped)
.....

WT can't use swords!!!!!!!

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-07 11:41, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Wartechers need all the ATA they can get, so I'd recommend the Tenora double daggers over the others, 8* Yohmei when affordable.



I'm confused by recommendations to buy Tenora/GRM daggers and double daggers. Yohami makes daggers with more ata than GRM, and SCADS more PP than Tenora. It does have less atp, but dagger ATP is prtty pathetci anyway - what's teh real difference betwenn 90, and 110? (4* double daggers, in this case)

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-08 15:09, Nani-chan wrote:

On 2007-01-08 14:47, delukard wrote:
.....sword....(weapons i use) are lv 20(capped)
.....

WT can't use swords!!!!!!!

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif



meh, who needs 'em? I'm a beast Forte fighter and I find them....limited. In my six weapon slots, they are alwasy the first to leave the palette if I am doing any *serious* adventuring.

Too slow, and PA does not hit hard enough (granted I this is tornado break level 23, but it aint getting all that much better).

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-08 17:58, SolomonGrundy wrote:

On 2007-01-07 11:41, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Wartechers need all the ATA they can get, so I'd recommend the Tenora double daggers over the others, 8* Yohmei when affordable.



I'm confused by recommendations to buy Tenora/GRM daggers and double daggers. Yohami makes daggers with more ata than GRM, and SCADS more PP than Tenora. It does have less atp, but dagger ATP is prtty pathetci anyway - what's teh real difference betwenn 90, and 110? (4* double daggers, in this case)



Because if you carry lots of weaps for palette swaps, PP doesn't matter. ESPECIALLY considering the ease with which you can produce lots of 6* weapons.

Tenora is best until you can afford 8* Youmeis.

[EphekZ]

On 2007-01-08 18:08, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2007-01-08 17:58, SolomonGrundy wrote:

On 2007-01-07 11:41, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Wartechers need all the ATA they can get, so I'd recommend the Tenora double daggers over the others, 8* Yohmei when affordable.



I'm confused by recommendations to buy Tenora/GRM daggers and double daggers. Yohami makes daggers with more ata than GRM, and SCADS more PP than Tenora. It does have less atp, but dagger ATP is prtty pathetci anyway - what's teh real difference betwenn 90, and 110? (4* double daggers, in this case)



Because if you carry lots of weaps for palette swaps, PP doesn't matter. ESPECIALLY considering the ease with which you can produce lots of 6* weapons.

Tenora is best until you can afford 8* Youmeis.



Plus, PSU isnt about PP spam...even though I use 8* yohmei. use the ATP and ATA not just the damn PA, dagger PP regenerates fast anyways.

[delukard]

i capepd sword as a hunter, can´t people use logic on that?

[Gamemako]

On 2007-01-08 18:08, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2007-01-08 17:58, SolomonGrundy wrote:

On 2007-01-07 11:41, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Wartechers need all the ATA they can get, so I'd recommend the Tenora double daggers over the others, 8* Yohmei when affordable.



I'm confused by recommendations to buy Tenora/GRM daggers and double daggers. Yohami makes daggers with more ata than GRM, and SCADS more PP than Tenora. It does have less atp, but dagger ATP is prtty pathetci anyway - what's teh real difference betwenn 90, and 110? (4* double daggers, in this case)



Because if you carry lots of weaps for palette swaps, PP doesn't matter. ESPECIALLY considering the ease with which you can produce lots of 6* weapons.

Tenora is best until you can afford 8* Youmeis.



Again noted that GRM twin daggers have more ATP than Tenora twin daggers. However, Tenora single has more ATP than GRM single.

[Kimil]

If you'll say:
"Just don't play them!"
or
"PLay for fun!"
Stfu, I've eard that a lot I'm showing my experiences with this class in case others want to try it as a beast. And to see what other Beast-wartechers think about this because I've seen a lot around.

After Missions continuesly Where I only heal 470hp at lvl 40 (class level 3 and resta 16), and doing only 250 DPH (Damage per hit) with spears, 140 DPH with Single Daggers and 200 with Diga... While Foreteckers dish out 600 per Diga, and Fortefighters lower levels then me manages 200-400 DPH I'm thinking Maybe Wartecher just isn't good? As a Beast anyways...


Character Lvls:
Choyoko Ryokunai
FemBeast lvl 40
Wartecher lvl 3
Hp: 1111
ATP: 298
Dp: Unknown
TP: 198
MST: unknown
Evade: 303
Acc: 73

"Oh, well self resta!" Fuck self Resta, two ressons:
-Minor Healing and its expencive: 40 pp (ouch) out of my 600pp wands, healling 470. IN the meantime Theres Newman Forces healling good 2000 because of their 400 TP at the same level
-LAG. Resta Sinks Kill me, they come out of nowhere too, just freeze! all PAs unloaded, please wait 30 seconds as Resta re-loads

"Self Buffs!"
-Again, if theres a Fortetecher, Megistral becomes useless because They have acess to higher lvl Techs, so their Bulfs beat Wartecher Buffs everytime.
-LAG , same reasons
-Takes up a wand and action palette, that you'll use once in a while.

Stats Hurt=
-ATP is a good 100 less then others Fortefighter Beasts at my same lvl. Hell, HUMAN Wartechers (because of the class boost they get) Have atp close to me. I can't use any A Ranks for another 5-10 levels other then my single Asami-Zashi
-ACC is cut down, even further for the already Low accuracy Beast class. I miss 1/5 or 1/7 times per attack. Also, I end up using the pistol ALOT when I'm on Reverser duty in Neudaiz, and I can't use very good Guns Period.
-TP, very low... like I said, Attack spelss are useless, wands? Can't use many at all. Resta: Weak, I have to heal beasts a good 3 times, and by the first resta they get pissed and use a dimate.
-NANOBLAST... weakened lots. At my Lvl, I do 330-350 DPH, while Fortefighters do a goo 550-650 at ym level.

The Lack of 30 lvl PAs means you'll always be second rate.
-Fortecher in the party?Don't bother using a wand!
-Fortefighter or Figunners? Your melee is now USELESS in compairison.

In the later levels, the Forte-classes become assential to victory, and the half-assed Wartecher class makes you realize, you wasted your mp points.

PLUS SIDE

Every game I've played, I'm the healer pretty much. I heal the FOrces (beasts have 1000-1500hp, and I heal 470...), and Reverser the Hunters. That it. Get a good Dagger PA in to knock something down, maybe Unleash some Spear PA on big Enemies. Thats all I do, but at least I guess the ppl I play with are thankful and it is fun to play thi style, I just wish it was a stronger class! It's always going to be a second-rate class.

Wartehcer (at least as a beast) will continue to be half-assed Unless:
Wartecher's Self buff is given a mega-boost,
Beasts get a stat boost for this class
Or that Di-armour and Re-armour spells are worth using.

But the best thing that could happen to this class would be the exclusive ability to weild Wands on the left hand, because this whiel class lacks with ranged weapons (low ata and lvl 10 bullet), we have to use them alot while wielding wands or Single Dagerrs




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-01-08 22:25 ]</font>

[Tra]

wartechers fail at every category

[Kimil]

Exactly what Im saying unfortunately http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif
"the best thing that could happen to this class would be the exclusive ability to weild Wands on the left hand, because this whiel class lacks with ranged weapons (low ata and lvl 10 bullet), we have to use them alot while wielding wands or Single Dagerrs
"




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-01-08 22:25 ]</font>

[-Crokar-]

nevermind. i reread my post and it wasnt really on topic at all other than the buffs will be only thing to save this class.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Crokar- on 2007-01-08 22:35 ]</font>

[Kinako78]

You made a Beast a Wartecher? That may explain why her magical power was so poor.

[Gojin]

On 2007-01-08 22:23, Tra wrote:
wartechers fail at every category



you're an idiot.

[Tra]

On 2007-01-08 22:41, Gojin wrote:

On 2007-01-08 22:23, Tra wrote:
wartechers fail at every category



you're an idiot.




you're a low dps noob and there's no way you can statistically prove that you aren't

[Kimil]

On 2007-01-08 22:38, Kinako78 wrote:
You made a Beast a Wartecher? That may explain why her magical power was so poor.



I thought the Self Resta would help a lot, but it teally didn't

Sure, it healed me 50% of my hp, but the resta sink kills. And if theres a Force around, I don't need to heal, and I'm stuck with the half-assed melee role

[Gojin]

On 2007-01-08 22:43, Tra wrote:

On 2007-01-08 22:41, Gojin wrote:

On 2007-01-08 22:23, Tra wrote:
wartechers fail at every category



you're an idiot.




you're a low dps noob and there's no way you can statistically prove that you aren't



How does that stop you from being an idiot? A wannabe elitist idiot at that.

[ShinMaruku]

Well look at it this way if you were a cast you'd be frigged.

[Tra]

looks like there's haters popping up left and right haha. it's fine I'm beginning to like the attention

[Gojin]

well of course when you go around making idiotic comments like you do, you're going to get attention eventually and thats why you do it you attention whore, you and Remedy are just alike it seems.

[Kinako78]

On 2007-01-08 22:52, ShinMaruku wrote:
Well look at it this way if you were a cast you'd be frigged.



*laughs* Yes, very.

But I thought I'd make Kinako a Wartecher online, because I picture her as a fighter and a mage.

[Jarek]

haha..if all you're worried about is how much damage you deal/heal, then you shouldn't have even started wartecher. I thought the whole point of guntecher/wartecher/fighgunner was to sacrifice highest possible damage for versatility. Hunters can't rely on you to be solely a resta/reverser force, and forces can't solely rely on you to be a powerful 800 dmg per hit hunter.
Fomar anyone?

[Gojin]

On 2007-01-08 23:01, psobsesser wrote:
haha..if all you're worried about is how much damage you deal/heal, then you shouldn't have even started wartecher. I thought the whole point of guntecher/wartecher/fighgunner was to sacrifice highest possible damage for versatility. Hunters can't rely on you to be solely a resta/reverser force, and forces can't solely rely on you to be a powerful 800 dmg per hit hunter.
Fomar anyone?



thank you someone finally gets it. Also running around as a newman fortecher trying to heal and get one hitted sucks. My 1320 hp is greatttt! and I still diga stuff in the thousands sometimes with my Libra wand.

[Ether]

Wartecher Haters: *long post discussing the weaknesses and faults of the class*

Wartecher Defenders: "You're an idiot"

How can anyone argue a point like that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Inazuma]

wartechter is not the choice for someone who wants to be strongest at something. you compare your melee damage to fortefighters and your tech damage/heals to fortechters, of course you arent gonna be as good. but you can do both at the same time, thats the whole idea. if you dont like it, i suggest switching to fortefighter or fortechter then.

sega made the types a certain way and thats how it is. someone who focuses on one style of attack SHOULD be stronger than someone who tries to do everything, right? just pick what you like the best and be happy.

[Kinako78]

As I already said, I'm choosing Wartecher BECAUSE I want my character to be skilled in both melee and techs. It may not be as powerful as a solid class in either direction, but I like the versatility.

[Kent]

Just like the FOmars and HUnewearls of late, the strength of the type relies in the player being able to use all of its capabilities well. In this case, yes, that does include race. If you picked a race that naturally fails in the whole technique-usage category, you've no one to complain to but yourself.

Really, though, don't think you can match physical damage with an equally-well-equipped Fortefighter. Same goes for technique damage with Fortetechers, and ranged damage with Fortegunners. Look at it this way: Each specialized type has one thing they focus in, and can't do the other two very well. As a Wartecher (of appropriate race), you don't have their glaring speciality, but you don't have their glaring weaknesses, either.

A wide selection of melee weapons, to cover melee fighting - Longbows and Cards to cover ranged attacking - Wands for casting techniques.

Obviously the most balanced type in the game, and is well-suited to basically any situation, but it's not without its limits. Don't go around thinking you can push it past them.

[Pentence]

Aye the thing the op is geting at realy boils down to the confirmation of balance.Wartechers ARE not and NEVER will be the best at either or no matter what race.It is a balance of techs and melee combat.

As a lvl 49 male beast wartecher i know the ups and downs but with the versitilty i have i have no complaints.While the hunters have wicked DPS that only goes so far,those pesky lil swarms are easy pickens even with low TP techs.When your surounded on all sides by enemys and your enemys and your gi techs aint cutn it,whip them nice S rank twin daggers out n take em for a "spin".

All in all its a nice class for a beast if ya dont mind the gimped TP stats and are not worried about being the UBER DPS type.

[CrabRangoon]

I think the main problem is that your WT is a Beast, and that's more your choice, not a flaw of the class. As a Human WT, I do just fine. At lvl43 (WT:1) I'm using a Cane+1's for my healing and attacking, and with Diga lv20 I still easily dish out 550-790dmg to Zon-based enemies, and approximately at least 50% of that amount to non-Zon-based ones. I also use my head when I melee, and equip weapons with elements based upon the planet's enemies elements (i.e. Fire + Dark weaps on Neudaiz, Ground + Ice on Parum). Also, the only time I'm attacking with spells is if I'm dealing with high-DFP enemies, or if I have the spell that a particular enemy is weak to.
Sure, when I fight A-rank De Ragan I can use my PA w/Survivor+1 (w/o ice element, even) and pump out 55-85 to 3 parts of his body w/each swing, or I can back off and pick at him for 180-220 with my Baybari+1 on Ice bullets, or Diga his ass for a measly 283 each hit, but at least I'm able to be on hand attacking him until he strikes somebody in the group, whom I can quickly heal, or take Burn off.
I'm on 360, so I dont experience the same lag, but if I did, I'd probably avoid playing with other FO's as well, so they wouldn't slow me down, and then you're talking negatively about all spell-casters just because they slow your system down? That's a weak complaint. If you had a Newman WT, I think you'd be plenty happy about your spell damage, but still complaining about your low ATP, inability to equip weapons of desire, and low DPH (though that'll change w/buffs). I'm no veteran of this forum, but anybody here could tell you that if this is how you feel, then you should obviously just switch to a pure class, rather than a hybrid.
I'll tell you that my 1 and only complaint is that I cant stand being treated like a Nanny-of-a-Force. I heal people as needed, but if I'm in the same herd of enemies, busting out PA's, spinning around hitting stuff along side some other melee strikers, I expect them to know how to 'mate themselves out of the yellow health area, rather than cry about why I didnt heal them, or blame me for their death. I have lower DFP than any ForteFighter, or FighGunner I can party up with, and once they know I can Resta them up, most of them feel free to play like complete jackasses, and spam their PA rediculously, and all thoughts of dodging enemies, or attacking from behind go straight out the window. I've left parties for such activity, and I've booted people like that from my parties, purely because they are putting mission points at risk by letting their health drop so low.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CrabRangoon on 2007-01-09 01:30 ]</font>

[Alisha]

imo wartecher is gimp without support techs. plus i'm not gonna lie lvl 20 skills hurts. if you in a party with a fortetecher you can delegate responsibilities. the difference between 20 and 30 support techs is 5% wich is proabally unnoticable. also in my opinion wartecher will always be better at debuffing because of their large hp pool and the fact that you have to get decently close to blanket multiple mobs. the only type with more hp than a beast wartecher is a beast fortefighter due to the 2% hp bonus they would get as fortefighter. i'm talking gi tech range here. once support techs are available your heals will go further because you then will gain damage mitigation through jellen,deband,zodial,and zodeel.

[huntlyon]

methinks it may be a different story come buff/debuffs roll out... the fortetchers will be busy enough with nuking. as a human with a tech boosting unit, my resta functions quite a bit better at level 45 with canes ground to 4, it could just be that Neu/Hu is the only way to go with this class... I'm powerlevling like crazy and neglecting my gear to level my techs and PAs to 20 for the most part. I've been tackling S runs in Neudaiz and soloing Linear/Food A for cash/ PM leveling... haven't a single group kick me out for not pulling my weight... even in parties of all 60s. Having a secondary healer can be a major plus if a group gets spread around a room.. perhaps you may need to find away to make up for that low TP to balance things out.


Still loving this class and how you can blend in to damn near any situation...

[Starrz]

I'd say wartecher is more like a Hunewearl, than a fomar. FOmars never sacrificed support ability for melee abilities. Wartechers do.

[Remedy]

On 2007-01-08 23:07, Ether wrote:
How can anyone argue a point like that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gifShe's Cherry, it's how she rolls. Duh.

[Ether]

On 2007-01-09 00:47, Starrz wrote:
I'd say wartecher is more like a Hunewearl, than a fomar.

HUnewearls didn't sacrifice significant melee capability to cast techs, they could equip essentially everything a HUcast could, while wartecher can't equip most S ranks, and can't use swords, axes, or double sabers at all. Level 20 skill cap hurts them a lot as well

Calling them FOmar or HUnewearl doesn't work, because both of those classes still focused on their main profession, while Wartecher is stuck being both a subpar Hunter and Force. One of the main advantages to the PSU hybrid classes is being able to regen PP faster in both of their respective weapon types, but wartechers inability to actually equip a blade and wand at the same time completely nullifies this. Instead you end up with a class that focuses on one handed weapons, and can't actually equip them at the same time, and is forced to fill the space with lots of handguns or cards, and with level 10 bullets, those aren't going to help much

Right now everything a wartecher can do with techs, a forte-fighter or figunner can do with items. Buffs, healing, status effects, traps, the only thing no items exist for are debuffs, which I've heard aren't very good to begin with. Also with wartecher being limited to 2 techs per wand, the buffs/debuffs will make their inventory even worse. To have every buff, debuff, and heal spell ready, it will take 5 wands. At that rate, why not just play a guntecher or fortecher.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ether on 2007-01-09 01:45 ]</font>

[Alisha]

it sounds like sonic team needs to start doing some class balance tweaks. i hope they can add/remove weapons to classes. i think even c-rank rods would help. debuffs are relatively cheap.

and wtf did posts disapear from this topic?

[-Shimarisu-]

You're all wrong and your points are ridiculous.

How can 3/4s the ATP possibly be BAD atp? Coupled with S rank daggers when they are out AND buffs, this has the potential to be a very high damage HUNTER class, and the best hands down at solo.

Also beasts are great in this role. I'd argue more but I'm off to level my third Wartecher.

[Vyslain]

Honestly, I've always thought humans were wartecher material and that beasts/newmen should stick to their respective classes since they've got such a drop in certain stats it kills their versatility, but that's just me.

[Tita]

versitility. it comes in handy.

i'm having loads of fun playing as a wartecher, since figuring out how to use this hybrid class has been a fulfilling challenge. if you're just going to whine about your stats instead of figuring out how to best exploit what you've got, then why play at all?

hybrid classes are not about min-maxing! envy is not your friend!
instead, why not work towards making *them* envy your versitility?


I gotta mention that being able to stand at the center of a party melee, take damage like a champ, spam resta/reverser, then nanoblast as punctuation feels pretty darn sweet http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[-Shimarisu-]

Yeah it IS just you.

Why do people want to be beast Wartecher? To compensate for the lower ATP. Why it is a help? Because the boost on a wand to increase TAP is far more than the boost from daggers, your main weapon. OK here's how it balances out.

Male human wartecher ATP at level 60/10 = 486.
Male beast wartecher ATP at level 60/10 = 554.
Male human fortefighter ATP at level 60/10 = 604.
Male beast fortefighter ATP at level 60/10 = 730.

Now I'm gonna explain why base stats are not the only stats people should take into account, because it's all people EVER seem to care about. Putting the best A rank dual daggers on all the above, we see the following:

Male human wartecher ATP = 688
Male beast wartecher ATP = 756.
Male human fortefighter ATP = 806.
Male beast fortefighter ATP = 932.

Numbers getting a lot closer now, aren't they? And that's with a relatively low ATP weapon. I haven't even factored S ranks in, but you'll see that beast Wartecher is not far removed from human fortefighter, and is over 3/4 the ATP now of beast fortefighter. That's not even counting grinding or %s. Put the same weapons on each of these even, and the gap closes furthur. Somebody's gonna point out level 21+ PAs at this point, but the % ATP bonus here is not an amazing difference, plus for most PAs the highest damage is on your second stage of combo anyway. I'd have to factor in a multitude of PAs to work out higher damage on each.

I maintain that Wartechers should be more melee than tech, which is why I don't really favour newmen in this role. However here's why the beast's techs are not hugely removed from human's.

Male human wartecher TAP at 60/10 = 576
Male beast Wartecher TAP at 60/10 = 339

Seems bad? However, add on the best wand that they BOTH can equip. We'll say it's the 9* Majimura, but once again I'm not taking grinding into account. With this equipped the human's TP is 1117 and the beast's is 880. It's 4/5ths. Not shabby at all. You might argue the human gets a better time of it being able to equip good wands earlier, but bear in mind how well C and B ranks grind. A +10 C wand is as good as an ungrinded 5*. A 5* can be equipped by beast around level 40. Probably the best wand they can both equip RIGHT NOW is a high grinded 6* Tenora. YOu can keep beast TAP at a CONSISTANT 4/5ths of human.

Add in the better ATP, HP and defense of beast and you're talking a decent melee character with backup techs. Human is better in the MST department, but Wartecher's naturally higher MST is a bonus over fortefighters that some beasts might want to take anyway. The evade of Wartecher is also absolutely insane, so covered there too.

The ONLY real problem is ATA. That can be covered with high ATA weapons. I've never really had an issue with it. With a human's ease at equipping wands without much bother with grinding, and also the better ATA I'd say these races were about equal at wartecher, but beast's bonuses to the hunter side outweigh human's to the tech side IMO.

People are also making all these judgements before buffs are even out, which I find quite hilarious. If you're not doing 3/4 the melee damage of fortefighter AT LEAST, that'll be down to what you and that forte have equipped. It's your own personal shortcomings, not those of the class. Also, wait til buffs.

I tried Fortefighter and found them lacking, because I couldn't solo as well and I couldn't shoot things with any decent accuracy (another key to soloing well). Bows like the Alteric and Hanmateric make even a female beast WT able to do this efficiently.

I suppose Fortefighter sucks then? No, it's all personal opinion. I play alongside a friend of mine who has Fortefighter and Fortegunner. I play Wartecher and Guntecher. I'm not all /wrists at my role in our parties, so why are you, OP?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-01-09 04:14 ]</font>

[Gojin]

On 2007-01-08 23:07, Ether wrote:
Wartecher Haters: *long post discussing the weaknesses and faults of the class*

Wartecher Defenders: "You're an idiot"

How can anyone argue a point like that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif



I wasnt responding to the topic creator who made a long post, which only explained the weaknesses of beasts as wartecher anyway. I was responding to the person who said wartechers fail at every category.

[-Shimarisu-]

Beast are not weak at wartechers. Stop only looking at base stats.

[imfanboy]

First off:

Turn off the background music if you're having trouble with wandlock. I was having trouble, I turned off the bgm, and ever since then I've been doing just dandy with switching from wands to melee weapons.

Second:

While no class/race combination is useless, some of them are hampered until later levels, with better equipment. Level 40 is NOTHING, laddo. And tbh, you're about the closest to a gimped character that there can be. Lowest ATA in the game as a race AND as a class? Learn to love Zodial; you're going to need it. Beast Wartecher is almost as bad a newman female Protranser.

Third:

You can equip A-rank 7* twin daggers, as well as any number of perfectly fine 6* weapons - I should know, my ATP is lower than yours at 7 character levels higher. It's starting to become clear that A-ranks = nub; more expensive to fill with little real benefit.

Fourth:

You're not STUCK with this class. That's the best part of this game; you can switch classes without having to delete a character and start over at square one if you don't like them. Go back to Hunter, and then cruise on up to Fortefighter - you'll level up the basic classes fast in S-rank missions. Who knows? You might actually find yourself missing your WT days.


If you're not enjoying something, STOP DOING IT. I don't know what you wanted from us - kind words, a pat on the head, a kick in the ass - but I'm giving you the last one. Either shit or get off the pot. Stick with Wartecher or change classes.

Either way, stop complaining about something that you have the power to change.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-09 04:21, imfanboy wrote:

Beast Wartecher is almost as bad a newman female Protranser.




Beast are not weak at wartechers. Stop only looking at base stats.

[Gojin]

and whoever said everything can be done with an item, I want to see someone heal themselves while frozen or heal other people with an item.

[Rashiid]

wartechers do kinda sink low on the class scale

just use monomates, faster and more efficient! [for hunters atleast] and pick a better class

[-Shimarisu-]

I noticed Fortetechers were the most likely to criticise other peoples' class choices, who else has observed this?

Edit: Wow, your resta and reverser are not past level 21 yet? I'm a guntecher, and on PC my GT's resta, reverser and a bunch of other techs were level 20, capped when I switched.

Perhaps your resta should be level 20+ before you criticise a Wartecher's role in a party? Cause you're sure not fulfilling yours.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-01-09 04:59 ]</font>

[Vyslain]

Since when is using monomates when you have around 2000 HP effective? Last time I checked they only healed like 300 HP. I'd much rather use dimates or trimates. >.>

EDIT:Hell, If you play a beast and have Tero/HP Restore on you probably won't even need those unless you're fighting Dulk Fakis or something.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vyslain on 2007-01-09 04:57 ]</font>

[Ether]

On 2007-01-09 04:48, Gojin wrote:
heal other people with an item

Star Atomizer


On 2007-01-09 04:57, Vyslain wrote:
Since when is using monomates when you have around 2000 HP effective? Last time I checked they only healed like 300 HP. I'd much rather use dimates or trimates. >.>

EDIT:Hell, If you play a beast and have Tero/HP Restore on you probably won't even need those unless you're fighting Dulk Fakis or something.


lol offline mode, why are you even posting

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ether on 2007-01-09 05:14 ]</font>

[Kinako78]

Poor Shimarisu...it's like everything you say goes in one ear and out the other, so to speak.

[Gojin]

star atomizers cant be bought in npc stores and you can only carry 10 so someone will have to go alll the way back to a player shop buy some thing go all the way back to the mission place? I bet fortefighters have an item that can kill bees too and other monsters weak against techs?

[Magician]

Meh, I wanted to be a Wartecher originally. The update comes, I give it a go and I wasn't happy, so I switched to Fortefighter. Now I'm happy. Not a difficult thing to do, switching to a different class.

[Disastorm]

I didn't know there were buffs in this game, I've only seen the ones where u have to use the items. What are the buffing spells?

[SolomonGrundy]

Has anyone done an analysis of who makes the best weapons for each class of weapon at each star level? THe GRM/Tenora dagger thing is certainly an anomaly, but GRM does a better job with Knuckles as well (at least in some cases).

[panzer_unit]

GRM spears are really close to Tenora on ATP. At +3 or +4 grind I think they pull ahead.

[Thrash777]

Wartechers are the most out-of-place job type... there is no great advantage, and there is no suitable race to be with...

[EphekZ]

you're a beast wartecher, female on top of that. I think for wartecher, it'd be better to go as HUman since you get a boost. This isnt you shouldnt go as beast, they're both good. anyways, I have a 7* wand and tp booster, and even with a fortetecher I still heal. There will be times when it's needed. I cant even go another class, because others rely on it, plus I like supporting, makes runs go a lot faster. wartecher also has a lot of diversity; if you level up diga or gidiga, it becomes extremly useful. I can dish out 500 dmg or more per diga depending on what i'm fighting. also if weps are weak, I can always switch out my bow or cards, which does like near 300 per hit(cards do like 100-130 per little card thingy so that's like atleast 200). I havnt had a problem with being wartecher, i've turned full support mode, no problems i've supported a full party of fihgunners and fortefighters through VoC S, and no one died, nor did they need to use mates.

I'm sure there's more I can write, but I gotta get going.



edit:


Wartechers are the most out-of-place job type... there is no great advantage, and there is no suitable race to be with...


Humans are the best choice for this class, heh, nuetral race for neutral class I guess. anyways the games gives a decent boost for this combo, which has also helped me out a lot.

edit 2: lol "right"

edit 3:



Fomar anyone?


That's actually why I chose this class http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

on PSO only class I really enjoyed was FOmar, if you guys ever played as melee FOmar you should know it's tough in the beginning but you become a one man army later on. i'm lvl 56 and lvl 5 wartecher, I can solo just about anywhere.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkgunner on 2007-01-09 07:16 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-09 06:58, Thrash777 wrote:
Wartechers are the most out-of-place job type... there is no great advantage, and there is no suitable race to be with...



Actually just about anyone can excel at it, but stat wise I think beasts and humans come out on top.

You read it. BEASTS and humans.

That's because I calculate things not purely on base stats, but stats after not so hard to get equips, unlike 90% of this damn thread/forum/PSU in general.

I have a high level human anyway, if I thought he'd be better at it I'd use him, but I think he's a lot better at guntecher and for a melee class, I prefer the ATP boost beast naturally gets.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-09 06:56, panzer_unit wrote:
GRM spears are really close to Tenora on ATP. At +3 or +4 grind I think they pull ahead.



But their ATA sucks.

[panzer_unit]

I thought the subject was weapons where GRM outdamages Tenora... along the same lines as "GRM twin daggers and knuckles outdamage Tenora".

You can always consider Stella/Hit S if you've got some ATP to spare.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-09 04:55, -Shimarisu- wrote:
I noticed Fortetechers were the most likely to criticise other peoples' class choices, who else has observed this?

I get the most shit from FiGunners, honestly. That may just be a function of how they outnumber everyone else 5:1 ... anyway they're always saying I should go fF instead of PT. I'm content with less damage and also being a ForteGunner when it's convenient.

EDIT: the two range/melee classes got some unique abilities. FiGunners can use a special overpowered melee weapon, while ProTransers get to nuke otherwise-immune mobs with Virus for awesome damage. ST should have done the same for the force-hybrids.

On the other hand WT gets to pick from respectable melee, ranged, or tech damage to deal with enemies that halve one type or another. You're always better off hitting for full with a weaker damage type than hitting for half with a strong one.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-09 08:11 ]</font>

[Tra]

On 2007-01-09 04:09, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Yeah it IS just you.

Why do people want to be beast Wartecher? To compensate for the lower ATP. Why it is a help? Because the boost on a wand to increase TAP is far more than the boost from daggers, your main weapon. OK here's how it balances out.

Male human wartecher ATP at level 60/10 = 486.
Male beast wartecher ATP at level 60/10 = 554.
Male human fortefighter ATP at level 60/10 = 604.
Male beast fortefighter ATP at level 60/10 = 730.

Now I'm gonna explain why base stats are not the only stats people should take into account, because it's all people EVER seem to care about. Putting the best A rank dual daggers on all the above, we see the following:

Male human wartecher ATP = 688
Male beast wartecher ATP = 756.
Male human fortefighter ATP = 806.
Male beast fortefighter ATP = 932.

Numbers getting a lot closer now, aren't they? And that's with a relatively low ATP weapon. I haven't even factored S ranks in, but you'll see that beast Wartecher is not far removed from human fortefighter, and is over 3/4 the ATP now of beast fortefighter. That's not even counting grinding or %s. Put the same weapons on each of these even, and the gap closes furthur. Somebody's gonna point out level 21+ PAs at this point, but the % ATP bonus here is not an amazing difference, plus for most PAs the highest damage is on your second stage of combo anyway. I'd have to factor in a multitude of PAs to work out higher damage on each.

I maintain that Wartechers should be more melee than tech, which is why I don't really favour newmen in this role. However here's why the beast's techs are not hugely removed from human's.

Male human wartecher TAP at 60/10 = 576
Male beast Wartecher TAP at 60/10 = 339

Seems bad? However, add on the best wand that they BOTH can equip. We'll say it's the 9* Majimura, but once again I'm not taking grinding into account. With this equipped the human's TP is 1117 and the beast's is 880. It's 4/5ths. Not shabby at all. You might argue the human gets a better time of it being able to equip good wands earlier, but bear in mind how well C and B ranks grind. A +10 C wand is as good as an ungrinded 5*. A 5* can be equipped by beast around level 40. Probably the best wand they can both equip RIGHT NOW is a high grinded 6* Tenora. YOu can keep beast TAP at a CONSISTANT 4/5ths of human.

Add in the better ATP, HP and defense of beast and you're talking a decent melee character with backup techs. Human is better in the MST department, but Wartecher's naturally higher MST is a bonus over fortefighters that some beasts might want to take anyway. The evade of Wartecher is also absolutely insane, so covered there too.

The ONLY real problem is ATA. That can be covered with high ATA weapons. I've never really had an issue with it. With a human's ease at equipping wands without much bother with grinding, and also the better ATA I'd say these races were about equal at wartecher, but beast's bonuses to the hunter side outweigh human's to the tech side IMO.

People are also making all these judgements before buffs are even out, which I find quite hilarious. If you're not doing 3/4 the melee damage of fortefighter AT LEAST, that'll be down to what you and that forte have equipped. It's your own personal shortcomings, not those of the class. Also, wait til buffs.

I tried Fortefighter and found them lacking, because I couldn't solo as well and I couldn't shoot things with any decent accuracy (another key to soloing well). Bows like the Alteric and Hanmateric make even a female beast WT able to do this efficiently.

I suppose Fortefighter sucks then? No, it's all personal opinion. I play alongside a friend of mine who has Fortefighter and Fortegunner. I play Wartecher and Guntecher. I'm not all /wrists at my role in our parties, so why are you, OP?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-01-09 04:14 ]</font>



LOL you want to compare the damage of a beast WT and a beast fF? Alright first of all, that 180ATP advantage that fFs have over WTs basically means around 80 more damage per hit. Imagine that with twin daggers. Another, you're missing something... fucking level 30 PA skills you noob. Not only are you missing out on potentially faster DPS with the third part of the PA, you're missing 10% or more damage just right off the bat because simply because of the damage modifier.



756 ATP compared to 932 ATP... oh that's already 19% less damage. Okay lets calculate Renkai Boyou Zan:

756 ATP x 1.55 (155% damage modifier at lv20) = 1172
932 ATP x 1.65 (165% damage modifier at lv30) = 1537

Only 73% damage of a fortefighter

Okay, now that's 3/4ths that you were claiming a WT can get compared to a fF. Now do you want to add in the third part of PAs? Yes there are situations where you will want to, such as bosses and other large monsters or groups of monsters.

"2 body ×3HIT -> 3 body ×2HIT -> 3 bodies ×4HIT"

WT can use renkai-boyou-zan up to the second part of the PA and hit for a total of 12 times. fF and even fG can continue on and hit another 12 times (totalling 24 hits). For only about a second longer worth of spinning around with daggers, you pretty much dish out twice the damage you are able to. Now I'm not going to tell you how often people will be using the third part of photon arts, but realize you're only doing what, 50% of the damage a fortefighter can pull off?

Want another problem? WT's high evp is bad. Evade during the middle of a PA? your PP is gone and your PA is stopped dead, whereas if you got hit, you your PA would continue to its finish. Why in the world would you want to dodge an attack? You can heal yourself anyways LOL.


Want to argue techs? Okay. I'll let you have an advantage, I'll choose the human wartecher over the beast wartecher.

Male human wartecher 576 TP. I'll be generous, let you have what I have. Sori/force (110tp), W'gacros +10 (576TP). Totals 1262 TP.

How much do I (60/10 newman F fortecher) have? 1782 TP with the same equipment. You're already performing at 70% of a fortecher, buddy.

Now lets factor in your well-valued diga "melee substitute".

1262 x 2.6 (260% lv20 diga damage modifier) = 3281
1782 x 2.8 (280% lv30 diga damage modifier) = 4989

Ohhh... the gap widens! human WT's diga is only 65% of a fT! 1000 diga crits? lol don't act like that's something special. fucking noob.

Heck with it, I calculated a newman F wartecher (715TP at 60/10)

1401 x 2.6 (260% lv20 diga damage modifier) = 3642

Still only 73% of a fortecher, but you pretty much sacrificed all hopes of actually doing any melee damage. Oh, also don't forget the size of a lv21 diga.

I played a HUne all the way in PSO GC, they were pretty much the best solo class (highest atp dfp due to being able to access buffs/debuffs much more easily). Delbiters in Ultimate mode don't even make me flinch when hit with a simple jellen.

Unfortunately, wartechers do NOT show such potential simply because their damage potential is horrible. Add in buffs/debuffs? Okay. Fortefighters can buff themselves too with items bought at the npc. Debuffs? okay if you want. Jellen/diga wand (or wtfever you want to put on it), shifta/deband wand, resta/reverser wand... that's half your palette there. You're going to have to do some awful lot of menu-switching weapons if you want to manage.

and to end it on an even worse note, wartechers fail. why would I want somebody in my party that can only do 50% the damage of a fortefighter and not nearly come close to me with techs when something melee-resistant comes around? You're a waste of fucking space in parties.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2007-01-09 12:03 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-09 07:36, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2007-01-09 06:56, panzer_unit wrote:
GRM spears are really close to Tenora on ATP. At +3 or +4 grind I think they pull ahead.



But their ATA sucks.



...said the BEAST http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Yohemi's ata is lower than GRMs for spears. Believe it.
6* Yohemi 189 ATA
6* GRM 212 ATA

I'll take the ATA and PP of the GRM over the Moatoob ATA/ATP anytime...


But the point of my post is not to disagree on weapon selection. I want to make a definitive statement about Wartechers that everyone seems to me overlooking. They have GREAT defense.

Tied for Best HP in the game
Tied for second best DFP in the game
Second Best EVP in the game
Second Best MST in the game

That's a pretty compelling argument to play one.
I'm going to agree with the WT community to say that humans are the #1 seed (they are good at everything but ATA)

After that it a toss up between Beasts and Newmen. I personally think beasts are better suited to Figunners or Fortefighters (and since you only get 4 slots this is the way I'd go with them), But I have to agree with Shiramisu in saying that Beasts can make decent WTs using the buffs (if the buff items are any indication), they will NEED zodial at all times, but is that such a bad thing?

[SolomonGrundy]

and to end it on an even worse note, wartechers fail. why would I want somebody in my party that can only do 50% the damage of a fortefighter and not nearly come close to me with techs when something melee-resistant comes around? You're a waste of fucking space in parties.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2007-01-09 12:03 ]</font>


You're an idiot. Ok, not an idiot but judge-y? How good will your Force be vs tech resistant monsters?...How about being one hit killed due to low HP, AND low DFP? I'll take less damage and living vs higher damage and being killed - sometimes in a single hit.

WarTechers can reliably succeed at all three damage types: bullets/bow, spears/daggers melee, and techs - no worries!

[Tra]

On 2007-01-09 12:57, SolomonGrundy wrote:


and to end it on an even worse note, wartechers fail. why would I want somebody in my party that can only do 50% the damage of a fortefighter and not nearly come close to me with techs when something melee-resistant comes around? You're a waste of fucking space in parties.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2007-01-09 12:03 ]</font>


You're an idiot. Ok, not an idiot but judge-y? How good will your Force be vs tech resistant monsters?...How about being one hit killed due to low HP, AND low DFP? I'll take less damage and living vs higher damage and being killed - sometimes in a single hit.

WarTechers can reliably succeed at all three damage types: bullets/bow, spears/daggers melee, and techs - no worries!



As far as I know, with a 50% ice armor I take 50s from king Oh Gohmon's barta in Demon from above S. Onma S and De Ragan S has not killed me in 1 shot with my 30% fire armor, only onma's lightning has a chance when I get caught off guard without -mates ready. Now you can say, the upcoming bruce's dungeon is going to settle the deal, but that's moot because if you know what you were doing you would not want to get hit period.

Tech resistant monsters? That's fine, I'll leave it up to the fortefighter. Melee and tech resistant? Okay that fortegunner can go ahead and clear up things.

Your last comment is not true, they don't really do sufficient damage. If you want to use bows, at least turn guntecher. They get level 30 bows!

Do you know what level 30 bow PA is? An extra 30% damage. Wanna know what else? 30% element, instead of 19% element, which is what a wartecher is limited to at a measely level 10 bullet. I'm going to go ahead and calculate this injustice that wartechers are "good" with bows.

Human Male Wartecher 60/10 = 486 atp
Human Male Guntecher 60/10 = 456 atp

Alteric + 10 667 atp

WT = 1153 atp
GT = 1123 atp

lets try ice arrows reiseisou

1153 x 1.25 (125% damage modifier for level 10 ice arrows) = 1441 atp
1441 x 1.19 (19% ice element bonus damage on fire) =
WT would have a total of 1715 atp


1123 x 1.55 (155% damage modifier for level 30 ice arrows) = 1740 atp
1740 x 1.30 (30% ice element bonus damage on fire) =
GT would have a total of 2262 atp

don't forget the ATA advantage of a GT either. Not many things are bullet resistant that aren't melee resistant either. Example... Polavohra? Alright, burn trap them. Now with guns + burn, you're already out-doing the sad damage of a WT's diga.

wartechers are an epic fail at even bows.



ROFL YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME

newman F fortecher 60/10 = 241atp
241 + 667 = 908atp

908 x 1.55 = 1407
1407 x 1.30 = 1829 atp

You fucking fail. You can get outdamaged by a newman F fortecher at bows.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2007-01-09 13:19 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-09 13:13, Tra wrote:

Tech resistant monsters? That's fine, I'll leave it up to the fortefighter. Melee and tech resistant? Okay that fortegunner can go ahead and clear up things.



For using so many numbers in your posts you totally blew it here.

"Let's be huge bitches about characters who do a little less damage than other classes, and then totally okay with having two characters gimped to half for every kind of damage-resistant mob we fight." Great plan, for retards. Go ahead and throw away all those DPS advantages you claim your Forte party has.

On any non-resistant mob, WT melee will outdamage FT techs. On the occasions it doesn't we can say the FT is picking up the slack instead of pulling ahead... so it's the ForteTecher that can GTFO if we're going to be nasty about this. WT won't have to heal as much since they're making for shorter fights and providing hard crowd control to protect the main fighters.

On other maps Techs do the most damage by a mile. Fire your ForteFighter and go with WarTecher again. Better ability to tank hits (good EVP and MST), can still kick mobs around, more DPS overall since they can use techs.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-09 13:32 ]</font>

[Tra]

....... no?

Fortefighter damage is incredible. If applied right, they can still outdamage fortechers even through melee resistant monsters. Tengoh screwing your damage up? Go find 2 or 3 and hit all of them at once! bam you're doing just as much damage as I am now (800 x 3 on rabarta).

Jarbas I admit, are a pain in the ass for me. Just go bow and be done with it. Stated above, wartechers fail at bows. 400 damage per bow shot here, which is the best I can do at the moment. If I bothered to remake an alteric+10 and got my ice bow to lv30, it would raise up to 500.


Thing is man, I am glad to have any class (even protranser) over wartecher. I'd rather have somebody able to deal 100% on most monsters and 50% on some monsters, than a wartecher which can perform somewhere around ~60% on every monster.

Hey, now if they were just plain stronger in raw base stats, I would have no problem! That's not the case however.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2007-01-09 13:34 ]</font>

[delukard]

you guys argue to much.
a wartecher is about planning with the party what your role will be.
.-when i start a S rank mission i always say to the fortecher that I will heal so he concentrates on the nuking.
.-On S rank missions when hunters are figthing they KNOW that i'll be there in the fray with them healing so they concentrate on the damage dealing. A force can get one hit killed by being there.
.-A wartecher is about the determination of having your PA´S maxed out. this ARE A MUST PA
.-FOIE(to help the ranger or techer to burn the enemies)
.-DIGA (raw damage)
.-RESTA (i have lv 16 resta and i can heal 650 hp with a B class wand )
.-the RA are not efective i recomend leveling the GI techs(i do more damage with a lv 11GI than a lv 20 RA.
.- if you can synth i recomend to synth the 3 wepons the board gives you and bring them with you so you don´t run out of pa that fast
.-photon recharge is your best friend so BRING SOME
.-And remember study your party and then decide what youll do WE are the class that adapts to any party out there!

[Sgt_Shligger]

Erm, not all people care about stats.

Skills can outdo stats by a longshot. . . Hell, I'm a newman GT and I can still melee in S rank missions. . . Level 43 =P

People don't go to wartecher and protranser for stats. They go for abilities. You go Wartecher for versatility not invincibility.

Also, what's with the bow argument? If someone is out-damaging a ranger with a ranger's weapon, that's bad. A Wartecher shouldn't be using a bow as a primary weapon!

[Tra]

On 2007-01-09 13:52, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:
Erm, not all people care about stats.

Skills can outdo stats by a longshot. . . Hell, I'm a newman GT and I can still melee in S rank missions. . . Level 43 =P

People don't go to wartecher and protranser for stats. They go for abilities. You go Wartecher for versatility not invincibility.

Also, what's with the bow argument? If someone is out-damaging a ranger with a ranger's weapon, that's bad. A Wartecher shouldn't be using a bow as a primary weapon!



What abilities?

-No level 30 PA
-Ranged weapon abilities outmatched by even a fortecher
-Useless techs
-There's not even traps to make up for it all


Skills do outdamage stats by a longshot, I've written it all down above. Wartechers don't have those skills.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-09 13:32, Tra wrote:

Thing is man, I am glad to have any class (even protranser) over wartecher. I'd rather have somebody able to deal 100% on most monsters and 50% on some monsters, than a wartecher which can perform somewhere around ~60% on every monster.



On any given map, melee will outdamage techs because nothing's resistant, or techs will outdamage melee on melee-resistant... just depends on how the enemies break down for resistance.

WarTecher will ALWAYS be a competitive (read: slightly better) choice than whichever Forte is getting the short end of the stick. If it's an exact even split they come up 2% short of breaking even. You figured them at 73% strenght a page ago, not 60%.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-09 11:50, Tra wrote:

and to end it on an even worse note, wartechers fail. why would I want somebody in my party that can only do 50% the damage of a fortefighter and not nearly come close to me with techs when something melee-resistant comes around? You're a waste of fucking space in parties.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2007-01-09 12:03 ]</font>


I don't do 50% the damage though, I do 75%, I resta, keep everyone alive and after the 12th I can debuff. You know what? You're the real waste of space because you are a nasty piece of work who nobody in their right minds would want anywhere NEAR their party.

You haven't even bothered with calculations here, your calculations fails. Third PA of Renkai is a kickback technique that many players dislike. On JP I went WT after being requested by many not to use it. I thought "Oh what the hell, I may as well play support." Level 30 Renkai is 165% damage over 151% at level 16. You're shitting me if you think this is a huge difference. Damage difference drops to 150% for the third part - a knockback attack. The highest ATP is for the second part, which is 181% at level 16-20 and ONLY 185% AT LEVEL 30. Big deal.


Saying a class that does less damage melee fails is just bullshit. I played a FOmar to level 200 on BB and 167 on Gc (corrupted). I had what, half the ATP of HUcast. I did less damage but people were grateful for the tech support. Which was guess what - inferior to a FOnewearl's. I hunted ideal equips down like Rainbow Baton and backed my damage up with debuffs. If another force came along? You bet I just became a lesser hunter style player if they started up on the debuffing themselves, but the point of playing a merged class with good ATP and decent tech is NOT so you can wait around and be made useless if another player appears, it's so if that other player DOESN'T appear then you can play your own role and do it well.

What can Wartecher do that Fortefighter can't? Use impressive ATA based range weapons (bows). The WT'S role here is to knock things out of the sky that FF's ATA often won't touch with a handgun. I found this INSANELY ittitating as FF.

You miss the idea too that a Fortefighter has to dodge a lot more shit than a WT. Lower MST and lower evade means they are more vunerable in areas such as VoC. I can hit for more damage than FF there because I am not always runing away from shit with my ass on fire.

I'll tell you straight that on Onma S when playing our Ranger characters we will take WT over Fortetecher any day, thanks to their great ability not to be the piece of absolute tissue paper that an FT is. Only skilled FTs are any use there. And even then they wreck my gameplay with masses of wonderful slowdown.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-01-09 14:35 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

Also you miss the fact that with melee, tech and ranged abilities, the WT is the best character for solo in the entire damn game.

Thanks for comparing ATP of bow for WT and GT. YOU MISS THE POINT. As soon as things like dragons an Tengoghs show up, FF becomes an immediate gimp. GTs, FFs AND WTs do not. So they can't cast status well - so freaking what. They have that PURE DAMAGE ability and an attack for every scenario that makes them GIMPED IN NO SITUATION. Less damage in each? Sure, but they aren't running around doing next to none in some and well in others. Also they can play pure support PAs and heal in the fray. Damage is NOT the only thing required of them.

If, when I come across something tech resistant, I can suddenly attack while you do next to no damage, who's the gimp now? Fortes are not good for every situation. Argue party balance all you like but on a game like this you don't always HAVE balance. WT is balance in one complete parcel.

You're a singularly unpleasant person btw and I wonder why I'm even bothering with you.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2007-01-09 14:06, Tra wrote:

On 2007-01-09 13:52, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:
Erm, not all people care about stats.

Skills can outdo stats by a longshot. . . Hell, I'm a newman GT and I can still melee in S rank missions. . . Level 43 =P

People don't go to wartecher and protranser for stats. They go for abilities. You go Wartecher for versatility not invincibility.

Also, what's with the bow argument? If someone is out-damaging a ranger with a ranger's weapon, that's bad. A Wartecher shouldn't be using a bow as a primary weapon!



What abilities?

-No level 30 PA
-Ranged weapon abilities outmatched by even a fortecher
-Useless techs
-There's not even traps to make up for it all


Skills do outdamage stats by a longshot, I've written it all down above. Wartechers don't have those skills.



OK, Wartecher ISN'T RANGER. If you want to do bullet damage as your primary ability, Wartecher is not the way to go.

The abilities are their weapons and PA's.

Level 20 PA? I can live with that. Level 20 techs? Beats Guntecher and had use. I plan on making a Wartecher because they get an even balance of melee and techs. . .

Stats are not a concern. . . And besides, all classes have drawbacks. You act like Wartecher is totally gimped and useless http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[Tra]

On 2007-01-09 14:13, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-01-09 13:32, Tra wrote:

Thing is man, I am glad to have any class (even protranser) over wartecher. I'd rather have somebody able to deal 100% on most monsters and 50% on some monsters, than a wartecher which can perform somewhere around ~60% on every monster.



On any given map, melee will outdamage techs because nothing's resistant, or techs will outdamage melee on melee-resistant... just depends on how the enemies break down for resistance.

WarTecher will ALWAYS be a competitive (read: slightly better) choice than whichever Forte is getting the short end of the stick. If it's an exact even split they come up 2% short of breaking even. You figured them at 73% strenght a page ago, not 60%.



I mentioned 73% damage from just straight up raw PA damage. Did you fail to read the part where FFs have the advantage of the third part of PA's? While it does take a short bit longer, the overall DPS of it WILL be far more than just using the first two only.


And I have said, there are situations such as BOSSES and BIG MONSTERS where it is fine to use the third PA on. I know damn well what the third part of twin dagger does, and it's simple on how to use it to its best ability: things that don't get knocked back silly. That said, WT damage is horrible.

As for techs, you're pretty much doomed in performance because the area of hit of level 20 techs are significantly smaller than level 30 techs. That's on top of the huge damage disadvantage.

Yes fortechers have the lowest dps, with a party of 3 fortechers, 2 protransers and a fighunner, I managed to get a 18 minute average on Onma S. However the record is 15 minutes with just me as a fortecher and a more favorable party setup. Shut the fuck up Shiramisu, 'til you show some proof of your so beloved wartecher being "ok" getting at least sub-20 minutes on Onma S consistently.

[Tra]

On 2007-01-09 14:30, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:

On 2007-01-09 14:06, Tra wrote:

On 2007-01-09 13:52, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:
Erm, not all people care about stats.

Skills can outdo stats by a longshot. . . Hell, I'm a newman GT and I can still melee in S rank missions. . . Level 43 =P

People don't go to wartecher and protranser for stats. They go for abilities. You go Wartecher for versatility not invincibility.

Also, what's with the bow argument? If someone is out-damaging a ranger with a ranger's weapon, that's bad. A Wartecher shouldn't be using a bow as a primary weapon!



What abilities?

-No level 30 PA
-Ranged weapon abilities outmatched by even a fortecher
-Useless techs
-There's not even traps to make up for it all


Skills do outdamage stats by a longshot, I've written it all down above. Wartechers don't have those skills.



OK, Wartecher ISN'T RANGER. If you want to do bullet damage as your primary ability, Wartecher is not the way to go.

The abilities are their weapons and PA's.

Level 20 PA? I can live with that. Level 20 techs? Beats Guntecher and had use. I plan on making a Wartecher because they get an even balance of melee and techs. . .

Stats are not a concern. . . And besides, all classes have drawbacks. You act like Wartecher is totally gimped and useless http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif



lol? did you see me compare WT bullet damage to a ranger class in my post? NO. I compared it to a fucking fortecher. It's worse than fortechers, MUCH less than guntecher.

I'll just give you that WT has lv20 techs over GT's lv10. that'll be it.


and... with that said...

Fortechers > Wartechers at both bullets and tech damage. Leaving wartechers in shambles with a sorry excuse they call melee and omg high hit points.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2007-01-09 14:40 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

OK look, we're now on the Wartecher guide thread, Tra I think you can safely get out of the thread now as a. You don't play one and b. You exercise elitist opinions against Wartecher and therefore in this thread, you are nothing but a troll, provided stats aside.

You forget I can give those same stats and not fire my mouth off saying Wartecher sucks. Because it doesn't. I've played 2 now on JP and PC and I'm on my third.

[Tra]

I don't believe I am exercising elitist opinions. I am saying facts. I don't know how you guys can argue with that. If somebody wants to call me an idiot, that is when I provide facts. Have fun playing at a lower level. I'll leave this thread as you requested see ya.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-09 12:31, SolomonGrundy wrote:

That's a pretty compelling argument to play one.
I'm going to agree with the WT community to say that humans are the #1 seed (they are good at everything but ATA)










The WT community? I've met plenty of WTs in game, and the huge majority are beasts and newmen.

[SolomonGrundy]

Did you miss the whole "defensive" part of my post?

I'll say it again:
Tied for best HP
Tied for second best DFP (which determines the armor you can wear...)
Second best EVP
Second best MST

I should add that being a hybrid class, they will attain WT status more than a level (480 mission points) earlier than a fT will.

Works for me!

[SolomonGrundy]

The WT community? I've met plenty of WTs in game, and the huge majority are beasts and newmen.




and what does that have to do with anything? I said they agree that humans are the best for WT,... NOT that they play one. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I play a human figunner (well, he will be one...), and recognize in every way that matters a Cast is superior to me.

[-Shimarisu-]

I play for stats that I calculated in advance however, and recognise in every way that matters that I picked the best characters for the job.

I already pointed out that the much lower TAP was less important as a base stat than the lower ATP on human, because a wand gives a far greater boost than most melee weapons. Giving a beast 3/4 the tech of human, a situation that's acceptable for a class that isn't going to be using many damage techniques anyway.

By the way I argue against newman because the tech damage inflicted by WT is a much lower figure compared to FT than the melee is to FF. Thusly, we should MOSTLY melee and I think most do (why is the job req 5 force anyway?) and Newman is fairly gimped in that department. Especially considering that the WT's damage modifier is already lower than fortefighter. Tra's argument only holds true for a newman WT, which might do 50% the damage of your average forte while beast is almost the ATP of a human forte.

I think we're gimped more tech wise than melee and being a newman just makes you a 50/50 player as opposed to a 75/40 player ATP vs TAP wise. I'd rather sacrifice a LITTLE TAP for a big bonus in ATP, especially on a class which doesn't tech much anyway.

I keep arguing that BASE stats are the least important however, I play for damage if I can help it and high % weaps will always outdamage techs. Therefore I feel if you're a merged class you should concentrate on the former.

Even the ATA doesn't matter at later levels. Bows too will always hit anything.

Those arguing that we don't get S ranks fail to notice that for most situations in PSU, the game rewards a player willing to grind a weapon to the point it is as rare as the next class up with a better weapon than the next class up. And don't tell me you'll be grinding your S ranks. Maybe on PC where everyone has WAY too many resources now, but not on the servers with reasonable money.

I predict most S ranks will be for showing off, and will only equal a grinded A at best. Apart from double daggers, which grind badly... oh wait, we get S in those anyway!

I can equal a 5* wand with a 3* grinded to +10. I can grind 2/10 3*s to +10 (tried and tested). The same holds true for B ranks, which as a whole equal 8* equivalents at GRIND SEVEN, NOT TEN. Grind gain on weapons lowers with each rank too. Most C ranks gain more as a % of actual raw power than B ranks. Ditto for B. What are we seeing? That S ranks won't be that special. With daggers being my favourite weapon I don't honestly care.

The other reason to play beast btw is if you get an incredibly rare S rank drop that you want to keep but WT cannot equip, you have a far greater advantage over human should you decide to switch to FF.

Otherwise, I think human and beast are about equal at this job. Everyone claims they pull ahead with their choice, I only ever argue I'm "as good as" and defend the race choice against flocking elitists.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-01-09 15:24 ]</font>

[Sgt_Shligger]

Either way, I'm going newman Wartecher. . . Looks > Stats.

I think it can also be agreed that Casts makle bad WT's? Just looking at the stats. . . *shudders*

[huntlyon]

I just stepped in urine....

DAMN PISSING CONTESTS

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-09 15:40, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:
Either way, I'm going newman Wartecher. . . Looks > Stats.

I think it can also be agreed that Casts makle bad WT's? Just looking at the stats. . . *shudders*



They are okay... but they are made redundant by other classes. They play like a worse version of a beast WT, with similar stats to human otherwise. They are inferior to beast in every important stat but ATA, and human is damn close ATP wise but with double the TAP.

So yeah. Only play it if you really like having marginally better ATA in a class so gimped by it that a good unit will cover a greater percentage of ATA gain than you would by being cast.

[SolomonGrundy]

I predict most S ranks will be for showing off, and will only equal a grinded A at best. Apart from double daggers, which grind badly... oh wait, we get S in those anyway!

bad, bad prediction: chainsawd, spread needle, yas 9000, frozen shooter, holy ray, demo comet...to name a few...

These rares had powers which made other weapons pale by comparison.



and as far as your determination about Beasts, I am glad you are enjoying your Beast Wartecher. Humans are better wartechers for more than just TAP though (ATA, EVP, MST,). I understand your argument against newmans as well.. and in fact, I think Wartecher is the third best Newman job (#1 ForteTecher, #2 Guntecher, #3 Wartecher IMO). For me, I didn't want to be a fragile newman, so I picked the class with the best defensive stats, that could still cast: Wartecher.

I'm absolutely sure in melee you will own me. I have noooo problem with that. As long as I can do a little damage with melee weapons, and decent damage with techs, and LIVE to tell the tale...I'm a happy guy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Alisha]

wow this topic got served by the merge. as for me i'm going for wartecher so i can take care of myself. i hate rangers and fortetechers(playing as them not the actual classes themselves)and i hate having to depend on others so i'm willng to sacrifice a bit for self sufficiency. this was the same reason i played fomarl the differences being fomarl was one of the best characters in the game. i'm curious if wartechers will be able to evade tank well enough to pass on jellen and deband when soloing normal monsters.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-09 16:45, SolomonGrundy wrote:

I predict most S ranks will be for showing off, and will only equal a grinded A at best. Apart from double daggers, which grind badly... oh wait, we get S in those anyway!

bad, bad prediction: chainsawd, spread needle, yas 9000, frozen shooter, holy ray, demo comet...to name a few...



This isn't PSO, and so far I've seen a LOT less imbalance weap wise, hell, even race wise (given that your base stats are no longer the most important thing).

The weird thing about PSO was that it did the opposite, HUGE, HUGE gain on ATP for melee weaps and absolutely PITIFUL gain on MST for force weapons. So now we have a situation where anyone can be a competant force, but it's a bit harder to be a competant hunter. I think that's why beast and cast base TAP is so much lower than human. They had to reduce it for balance. If it was closer, human and newman would basically be redundant. Well maybe not newman for fortetecher, but human would be pointless even for merged classes.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-01-09 18:14 ]</font>

[Kimil]

Ok, Wat I said before was a bit of a rant. I actually like playing Wartecher, its FUN to play. Also now I must defend my choice to be a Beast Wartecher:

I'm not using any spells AT ALL that rely on a high TP (other then Resta, which I use more as a first aid skill when the force can't heal, or if there is no force at all)

The Spells I'm planning to use:
Resta (healling 500 ATM, lvl 16 Resta, lvl 40 beast lvl 3 WT, 200TP)
Reverser
Megistral
Posibly Shifta, Deband, Zondial, Retial (only used when no force is present, or my buffs are higher levels then theirs)
Zallure and Jellen (maybe zondeel, but it sounds useless)
Rentis and Dizas (The self shield spells)

None of these spells do damage, they gain strength with their Level! not an increase of TP. So the Beast's low TP is not an issue, tp would only affect the wands I can use (I can currently use 6*, which is fine because that is what I can afford to buy) I've noticed my lvl 18 Reverser is better then the reverser of most Fortecher I play with, and this is becuase the level is higher, TP is not an issue. Now, You'll say "lvl20 techs only!" And I realize this, but as its been said before, the difference between lvl 30 and lvl 20 support techs (other then Resta, which isn't my strong point anyways) is around 5%, not that noticable. Plus, Rentis and Dizas are only self effecting)

This is how my Action par looks:

Spear or Dual Daggers
Spear or Dual Daggers
Dagger/Pistol or Saber/pistol or Claw/Pistol or Cane/Pistol > Party Buffs (only if no other force is present)
Dagger/Pistol or Cane/Pistol > Rentis+Dizas or Megistral+Dizas
Dagger/pistol or Cane/pistol > Zalure+Jellen
Cane/pistol > Resta+Reverser

As for Melee, I chose Beast on purpose for the high race atp. Lowest class for ata in the game? I don't care, I miss nearly never (The Dagger pa is easy to attack from behind with) I utilize the PAs of Daggers and Spears (ATM anyways), Daggers for crowd control and Spears for damage. I know my ATP is not as good as fF's, but I was expecting this.

There are only two things I'd like WT to have:
The ability to wield Wands on the left hand so the pa could refill itself while one is not in use, space issues and I hate the pistol: its useless for WT beasts
Skills at a higher lvl then 20.. 21 even, 25?

[ShinMaruku]

I just have but one inquiry:
Since I'm gonna have a female newman wartecher, will I be safe with my usual choice of the elements or I'll fit best with just them diga stuff and buffs?
I love to make stuff freeze and burn.

[Kimil]

I think I'll sumerize, since I noticed EVERYTHING Shimarisu said was IGNORED, long post maybe thats y?:

Low ata = does matter, I rarely miss because I attack from Behind
Low TP = doesn't matter, none of the spells I use/willuse, use TP in their formulas at alla (other then Resta)
Tide for Highest HP
Second Highest DP, EVA, and MST
ATP Slose to that of a Human fF
Self-Buff/sheild/heal
MUTLITASKING

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-09 14:33, Tra wrote:

I mentioned 73% damage from just straight up raw PA damage. Did you fail to read the part where FFs have the advantage of the third part of PA's?
...
As for techs, you're pretty much doomed in performance because the area of hit of level 20 techs are significantly smaller than level 30 techs. That's on top of the huge damage disadvantage.



You're missing the argument completely. They hit hard enough to easily beat the guy who's totally out of their element.

WarTecher beats ForteTecher on really melee-friendly missions that demand a lot of crowd control and hand out physical damage like mad. They beat ForteFighter in grove and shit where everything takes half damage and blows up in your face.

Speaking of which, Onmagoug S is like the most ranger-friendly map in all creation. Bringing a fortefighter or wartecher is like taking your pet fish out for a jog. Of the two, WT is the more useful still since they can hit with techs and back up as a healer.

[Nani-chan]

On 2007-01-10 09:02, panzer_unit wrote:

Speaking of which, Onmagoug S is like the most ranger-friendly map in all creation. Bringing a fortefighter or wartecher is like taking your pet fish out for a jog. Of the two, WT is the more useful still since they can hit with techs and back up as a healer.



My WT can equip Alteric (6) now, I wonder if I can hit with it with blank bullets or if lvl 10 bullets will be worthwhile.

Thanks Panzer, I will go level up ice bow bullets.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2007-01-10 09:35 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

You'd have to miss a LOT before lv10 bullets aren't worthwhile over blank.

[SolomonGrundy]

This isn't PSO, and so far I've seen a LOT less imbalance weap wise, hell, even race wise (given that your base stats are no longer the most important thing).

The weird thing about PSO was that it did the opposite, HUGE, HUGE gain on ATP for melee weaps and absolutely PITIFUL gain on MST for force weapons. So now we have a situation where anyone can be a competant force, but it's a bit harder to be a competant hunter. I think that's why beast and cast base TAP is so much lower than human. They had to reduce it for balance. If it was closer, human and newman would basically be redundant. Well maybe not newman for fortetecher, but human would be pointless even for merged classes.

PSO is a different game, but but I have to disagree on force weapons being pitiful, the three 9* wands gave a 20% bonus to their resp[ective elements, and merges could be used to add an additional 20%.

Melee weapons - ok swords - did give huge atp bonuses, that I totally agree with. I'm not sure how I feel about opposite element weapons in PSU vs. the native/a.beast/machine/dark weapon system of PSO - it certainly was easier in PSO to have a weapon you could bring to any area. I find myself swapping weapons ALL THE TIME in PSU.

For races? I'm finding it hard to be human http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif My stats are pretty 'meh' and the only role I seem suited for is wartecher...but I'm going to be a FiGunner...for the lose

Beast: Any melee job
Casts: Any non technique job
Newman: Any technique job

[SolomonGrundy]

Kimil: I think Beast Wartechers work - I said said I think Humans are more suited to the job.

Your palette is pretty wand heavy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


panzer_unit: I need to play more with sensible playes like yourself.

Nani-chan: why not the ultimate art? I believe it greatly increases ATP/ATA at some extra PP cost. Seems pretty reasonable.

[Tra]

On 2007-01-10 09:02, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-01-09 14:33, Tra wrote:

I mentioned 73% damage from just straight up raw PA damage. Did you fail to read the part where FFs have the advantage of the third part of PA's?
...
As for techs, you're pretty much doomed in performance because the area of hit of level 20 techs are significantly smaller than level 30 techs. That's on top of the huge damage disadvantage.



You're missing the argument completely. They hit hard enough to easily beat the guy who's totally out of their element.

WarTecher beats ForteTecher on really melee-friendly missions that demand a lot of crowd control and hand out physical damage like mad. They beat ForteFighter in grove and shit where everything takes half damage and blows up in your face.

Speaking of which, Onmagoug S is like the most ranger-friendly map in all creation. Bringing a fortefighter or wartecher is like taking your pet fish out for a jog. Of the two, WT is the more useful still since they can hit with techs and back up as a healer.




http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8785292689269014089&q=demon+from+above

I have a video of my group doing Onma S in 16 minutes, I watched it and I counted
every monster that came on the screen. You don't have to watch it, but click it if you don't believe me, just read the post.

4 Olgohmon
5 Ollaka
4 Ollaka
5 Olgohmon
2 Goshin
6 Ollaka
2 Goshin
3 Goshin
3 Ageeta
3 Ageeta
2 Ollaka
2 Ageeta
2 Ollaka
3 Ollaka
2 Ageeta
2 Ollaka
1 Tengoh
3 Ollaka
2 Ageeta
3 Ollaka
2 Ageeta
2 Ollaka
2 Tengoh
3 Ageeta
2 Ageeta
1 Tengoh
2 Ageeta
2 Tengoh
3 Tengoh
2 Goshin
3 Tengoh
4 Tengoh
4 Tengoh
2 Goshin

9 Ohgohmons
32 Ollakas
11 Goshins
21 Ageetas
20 Tengoh

43 No Resistance (Ollakas and Goshins)
30 Tech Resistant (Ageetas and Ohgohmons)
20 Melee Resistant (Tengoh)

Do you know what that means?

For the 20 tengohs, WT can play as an extremely useless sub-par techer (your 600 diga compared to my 950? come on). Fortefighters, with their massive damage can still match a fortecher on Tengohs or fare just SLIGHTY short of 950 digas. If you don't believe me, go find one with a 50% ice mukfet and see for yourself. And oh, Tengohs don't get knocked back. PA part-3 spam all you want! Uh oh, wartechers don't have that.

For the 43 non-resistant monsters,being the majority of the entire mission, WT are useless as an extremely sub-par fighter while everybody else can do 100%. Fortefighters rip them apart.

For the 30 WEAK tech-resistant monsters, I as a fortecher will be doing exactly 50% while you on the other hand won't be faring much better. Fortefighters also rip them apart like paper.

AGEETAS AND OLGOHMONS DIE QUICK ANYWAY IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER WHO'S HITTING IT. You notice any rooms with those ageetas and ohgohmons are just cleared in seconds and we continue to move on shortly afterwards? a fucking fortefighter can dispatch an ohgohmon in 1 fire spear PA, I doubt a WT will be able to do that. I'll leave the math to you, you're always performing at 60% no matter where you're fighting.


Know what you're talking about first panzer_unit before you come up with superficial jackass statements like "oh every monster is really tough and hard to kill and always has some sort of resistance against certain forte classes and I can just do marginally better than them everywhere!". Tell me where this magical land is, but until then, shut the fuck up.


I'm gonna bring up Lab Recovery S too. Jarbas... very dangerous, also melee and tech resistant. Means you should use bullets right? Okay Wartechers, pull out your bows! Oh what's this? You get fucking beat in damage by a fortecher because they can use bows to a better extent than you with lv30 bullets!! (calculated in one of my previous posts) And no, you don't need a healer for any of these missions my party can easily manage without me casting resta or reverser. Useless piece of shits

.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2007-01-10 10:50 ]</font>


mod-edit:
user received a warning for flamebaiting and flaming in this post.
attitude issues? better get that fixed soon.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2007-01-10 11:18 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-10 10:39, Tra wrote:

43 No Resistance (Ollakas and Goshins)
30 Tech Resistant (Ageetas and Ohgohmons)
20 Melee Resistant (Tengoh)



So that's 73 mobs out of 90 where a WT with high% weapons would do better damage than a FT, especially with ollakas running all over and goshins popping in and out of the ground.

It's so cute that the monsters Gifoie would pwn best are tech resistant. Nice touch, Sega.

[-Shimarisu-]

Tra you are a gimp, everyone knows Onma S is a ranger map, you should go to Lab Recovery where you are not a drain on your party resources. I mean god forbid you don't do the most damage. Right? Right? (you may or may not take this as a parody of your posts here, I suspect you won't though.)

BTW Onma S is actually easy, and a WT CAN handle it better than a Fortetecher at lower levels, get out of here with your elitist forte boasting of clearing it in blah blah minutes, come back when we have harder missions. If you have the HP and defense to survive most anything, and clear it in 16 mins then I daresay people doing 100% the damage of their Forte class WILL clear it faster than a hybrid. That's not the freaking POINT, is it? The point is to play a challenging game, not a freaking easy, pointless one. You know, play in missions where dying is possible. What's with all this OMGWTFLOOKATMYDAMAGE.

Stop trolling this thread.

Haha you called WTs useless pieces of shits. Keep on trollin'.


On 2007-01-10 10:39, Tra wrote:

Useless piece of shits.



NEEEERRRRRRRRRRD RRRRRAAAAAAAAAGE

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-01-10 11:07 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

I rather enjoy how he uses 3 classes (and 2 forte classes) to describe how much better any class is than a WarTecher.

what's that? A ForteFighter deals more damage than a Wartecher? Crazy...

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Hey Shir: good to see we agree on something.

[Ledin]

On 2007-01-10 10:39, Tra wrote:
Bla bla bla.
Demons Above S is easy as long as you have traps. I've done the mission in just under 19 minutes, but that was with a random pick-up party, some members below level 60, only two people using buff items, and a measly 2 RA types (one player carried extra traps for me though). 16 minutes is not a feat with the proper party, so I don't see how your "record" proves anything. If I recorded a video of my set group doing it in under 15 minutes, would that make me more credible?

I've said this before in another thread: If you wanted pure efficiency, you'd party only with forte classes. Of course a Wartecher or Guntecher doesn't hit as hard as a Fortefighter or Fortegunner. They gain additional abilities to make up for that, though. If you enjoy being a forte class, more power to you. I don't see why you're trolling a Wartecher thread, however. Nobody forces you to play with one.

[Tra]

What I have said is when panzer_unit mentioned WT being more useful than a fortefighter in onma S, I went on ahead and proved that it is totally not true. I listed the ratio of certain mobs and their attributes in being able to remain alive for a certain amount of time. Ageetas? Destroyed within seconds. Gohmons? Destroyed within seconds of a FF's PA. Tengoh? FF will definately do more damage than a wartecher's diga. The rest? Boss?Fortefighter. I'm defending Fortefighters here, understand? Thanks.

They're going to be more useful than you in Bruce's Dungeon, they're going to more useful everywhere. Trimates put crappy wartecher restas (even a FT's resta, infact) to shame.

If you want to play WT for support, you might as well switch to FT for many reasons:

Huge Reverser range (you're screwed if you get frozen yourself anyhow no matter what class you are)
Better at techs
Better at ranged
and if you want to mention that FT has crappy defense and HP, then omg I'll quote you... "The point is to play a challenging game"
More useful than sucking at both melee and techs
and lolz to parody those of you boasting 2nd best evp and mst as if they were a good thing...
1st at EVP
1st at MST


That link was just proof of the point I am trying to make, which was the quantities of enemies I have listed, I have since gotten the same time with pretty much just 1 ranger type in the party.

I know you, at your maximum potential can pull off probably ~400 twin dagger PA hits on the correct types of monsters, outdamaging me. But hey, that's what fortefighters are for right?

"Of course a Wartecher or Guntecher doesn't hit as hard as a Fortefighter or Fortegunner. They gain additional abilities to make up for that"
Guntecher pretty much beats Wartecher there as well (they retain their traps and lv30 bullets), short of the lv20 techs. So even if they do come up short compared to the other classes, I got nothing against them.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2007-01-10 13:56 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2007-01-10 14:01 ]</font>

[Cav]

This thread is maximum comedy, please continue.

[Magitek_X]

This thread is maximum tragedy, let's not continue this.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-10 14:06, Cav wrote:
This thread is maximum comedy, please continue.



how *dare* you mock us, sir!

[ycavan]

lol. it's fine if you don't want to play a WT, Tra. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Every class has a specific personality that seems to like that class. I have a Beast WT, because I like the Beasts and WT is really what the main character of every Phantasy Star game has been. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

'n yes, the Forte- classes exist to allow ppl to excel in their specific fields. It all makes sense. *shrugs*

At level 29, I'm nowhere near your levels, but it's still been loads of fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-10 13:50, Tra wrote:
Trimates put crappy wartecher restas to shame.

I know you, at your maximum potential can pull off probably ~400 twin dagger PA hits on the correct types of monsters, outdamaging me. But hey, that's what fortefighters are for right?


Trimates put crappy ForteTecher to shame too.

If WT has a damage advantage over FT then the FT's are "useless piece of shits" and group's better off with a WT, amirite? You keep pushing that argument in one place so I figure it's valid everywhere. Go ahead and explain why it's better to do less damage and be a better healer or something, and then I'll go back to asking why you think FF's are so much better than WT.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2007-01-10 13:50, Tra wrote:
What I have said is when panzer_unit mentioned WT being more useful than a fortefighter in onma S, I went on ahead and proved that it is totally not true. I listed the ratio of certain mobs and their attributes in being able to remain alive for a certain amount of time. Ageetas? Destroyed within seconds. Gohmons? Destroyed within seconds of a FF's PA. Tengoh? FF will definately do more damage than a wartecher's diga. The rest? Boss?Fortefighter. I'm defending Fortefighters here, understand? Thanks.

They're going to be more useful than you in Bruce's Dungeon, they're going to more useful everywhere. Trimates put crappy wartecher restas (even a FT's resta, infact) to shame.

If you want to play WT for support, you might as well switch to FT for many reasons:

Huge Reverser range (you're screwed if you get frozen yourself anyhow no matter what class you are)
Better at techs
Better at ranged
and if you want to mention that FT has crappy defense and HP, then omg I'll quote you... "The point is to play a challenging game"
More useful than sucking at both melee and techs
and lolz to parody those of you boasting 2nd best evp and mst as if they were a good thing...
1st at EVP
1st at MST


That link was just proof of the point I am trying to make, which was the quantities of enemies I have listed, I have since gotten the same time with pretty much just 1 ranger type in the party.

I know you, at your maximum potential can pull off probably ~400 twin dagger PA hits on the correct types of monsters, outdamaging me. But hey, that's what fortefighters are for right?

"Of course a Wartecher or Guntecher doesn't hit as hard as a Fortefighter or Fortegunner. They gain additional abilities to make up for that"
Guntecher pretty much beats Wartecher there as well (they retain their traps and lv30 bullets), short of the lv20 techs. So even if they do come up short compared to the other classes, I got nothing against them.



Hey, guess what? Wartecher shouldn[i/] do more damage then a Forte_____, should they?

Wartecher serves multiple roles, it's versatile. Sacrificing stats for a more well-rounded combatant. You may be doing less damage, inflicting less status effects, and shooting magic with less effect but wait. . . You can [i]do all of these things.

When something that flies shows up, Wartecher has some weapons to shoot it down with, granted it will be less damage then a ranged class but you can still fight back. The Wartecher houses a balanced set of abilities. . . Forte______ has it's purpose but also has it's weaknesses, which need not to be pointed out.

Also, you keep refering to Onma S. . . Some people play this game to have fun. Some people like the having the multi-class abilities. If you don't like a hybrid classes weakened abilities, then DON'T TAKE THE CLASS.

The TRUTH every Forte class can outdo Wartecher in some field doesn't make Wartecher useless. Wartecher can do more melee damage then rangers and forces. Wartecher HAS techs and can help out in lack of a force. Wartecher CAN help shoot down flying enemies. All Forte classes have a weakness yet Wartecher only has drawbacks. . . Level 10 bullets? I don't see "ranger" or "gunner" in "Wartecher" so I probably SHOULDN'T have good bullets. Level 20 techs? It's something, it's better then Guntecher and has enough potential to be useful for damage as well as buffing. Level 20 PA's? Well, the single claw, dagger, saber, and knuckles all have one or two step PA's--- Also, the third hit isn't THAT great. You can live without it.

[Tra]

On 2007-01-10 14:24, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-01-10 13:50, Tra wrote:
Trimates put crappy wartecher restas to shame.

I know you, at your maximum potential can pull off probably ~400 twin dagger PA hits on the correct types of monsters, outdamaging me. But hey, that's what fortefighters are for right?


Trimates put crappy ForteTecher to shame too.

If WT has a damage advantage over FT then the FT's are "useless piece of shits" and group's better off with a WT, amirite? You keep pushing that argument in one place so I figure it's valid everywhere. Go ahead and explain why it's better to do less damage and be a better healer or something, and then I'll go back to asking why you think FF's are so much better than WT.



Thing is, you don't do more damage. You want to kill an ageeta faster than me? Oh noes, you win! No I don't think you'll outdamage a fortecher anywhere else. And no I don't think you'll outdamage a fortefighter anywhere at ALL. I believe that while Wartechers might be able to do techs and melee, they are plain NOT STRONG ENOUGH. Give them level 30 PA, that'll be fine and all done with. Any sort of damage increase will make them a fine class. Until then, they are not worth it.

Flying monsters? Take out a handgun, takes 1 hit to bring them down.

And goodjob at quoting me wrong too, you're editing quotes now?

[Sgt_Shligger]

Erm, why are we arguing about this even? This is a class thread for Wartecher and suggestions on the class. . . Not about the effectiveness of Wartecher versus the other classes.

So instead of arguing the value of Wartecher, why not start contributing advice everyone ;D

[Tra]

On 2007-01-10 18:48, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:
Erm, why are we arguing about this even? This is a class thread for Wartecher and suggestions on the class. . . Not about the effectiveness of Wartecher versus the other classes.

So instead of arguing the value of Wartecher, why not start contributing advice everyone ;D






Tell your party to not bother avoiding enemy attacks and not use any mates, get a Hard / Power Charge, always be the party leader and kick any fortechers that comes in. That's about it.

[Nani-chan]

On 2007-01-10 19:05, Tra wrote:

On 2007-01-10 18:48, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:
Erm, why are we arguing about this even? This is a class thread for Wartecher and suggestions on the class. . . Not about the effectiveness of Wartecher versus the other classes.

So instead of arguing the value of Wartecher, why not start contributing advice everyone ;D


Tell your party to not bother avoiding enemy attacks and not use any mates, get a Hard / Power Charge, always be the party leader and kick any fortechers that comes in. That's about it.


Could you go into more detail about how this would be good advice? I think WT and FT have good synergy in a party, I've even main healed for a few so they can do more damage techs.

[Holo]

Well Tra some of us dont like wasting our money one mates. Some of us like soloing without being reliant on others. And as for some who are like me and are beast and would be gimped as a fortecher chose to be a wartecher. And as a beastI heal 550 and that is great. Why not be a fortfighter? Well mabye cause i want to use buffs and debuffs and laughattheenemy's while i now get closer to fortfighter stats and the enemy's become weak. And one damu techs come out we will be causing status effects which fortfighters cant do. Forthechers can infact use damu and gi techs buti will laugh when theyget 1 hit K.O ed when getting up close and trying to use it.

Point is we infact have our ups, gi and damu techs without much danger of dying. And when buffs and debuffs come out, really soon btw we will be ripping things apart. Yeah mabye a fortecher and fortfighter can doit betterthen us together but hey I like rares and i love soloing wartecher has Fortecher and Fortfighter is even inferior to us in ways.

But mabye your to ignorant to see that.

[-Shimarisu-]

OK Tra I'll take your advice and kick any fortetechers that come in, because to those on 360 and PS2, Fortetechers can ruin your game if they spam slowdown inducing techs and make it slower for EVERYONE.

I'll take ONE in my parties if I can help it. I have played with 2 but they didn't spam, spam spam in a contest to see who did the most damage. I've a feeling you would though, so you'd basically gimp my gameplay and I'd kick your ass out of team for it.

[Gojin]

uhh I could of swore that Tra said they were leaving this topic yet they keep posting, hmmm. No one cares what you think of Wartechers, Tra, so give up and take your elitist crap elsewhere to people who care, like your nerd friends.

[Cav]

NO STAY PLEASE I LOVE YOU TRA ;;;;;;; meh there goes tomorrow's entertainment when I get home. Now look what you all did D:!

[huntlyon]

kids, can we get out of the pool and give the grownups some time now?


seriously.... hijack this thread to being about ummmm.. WT class discussion?









2 more days till buff/debuffs....... wooooooooo.


does anyone know if I can run something like, oh say, Linear C and just spam jellen/zalure like shifta/deband to level the tech? I know from story that spamming the tech will work to level it... find an in-zone recharger and go nuts... but I never tried with J/Z. once the SDJZ stuff is out, I may abandon leveling any and all offensive techs period... I got my Diga maxxed.. screw the rest of it

[Kimil]

That may work... I'm gonna try that! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Kimil]

On 2007-01-10 10:24, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Kimil: I think Beast Wartechers work - I said said I think Humans are more suited to the job.

Your palette is pretty wand heavy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


Thats only with the addition of S/D and J/Z (The non-tp spells, perfect for Beast). Plus, There's no point to have more the 4 melee weps on the pallet at once, when they all drain I take a moment to switch em.

[Natrokos]

I joined this thread a tad late...Anyone here a 10 WT? WT isn't perfect but it's very frustrating to see them being bashed by people who are WT 2-3 or worse people who haven't played it at all.

Im WT 8 I at least know how the class plays.

[Nani-chan]

I'm Wt (6); It's just that fun.

[SolomonGrundy]

I'm not even a wartecher, just greatful to have one in my party for higher rank missions
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

They are tough cookies.

[panzer_unit]

What are the best WT weapons? It looks like Saber and Spear would be best, since they cover for low class ATP... both of them peak for damage output on two-hit PA combos too.

[DonRoyale]

All right, this is getting a bit out of hand, if you ask me.

First of all, let me first say something that might catch your ear-I agree with a lot of the things that Shimarisu has said. Apparently, you people don't.

Base stats don't matter. (I wish I'd realized that earlier. Thank you for helping me learn that, Shim. Just wish you'd been a bit...less forceful doing it. =) Grinds. Proper equipment.

However, they don't see that. Why? They feel they don't want to do all that work to make your class powerful. Have any of you realized that you're eventually going to have to DO something to make your character good? If you don't do anything, you're a hacker, or have EXTREMELY generous and giving friends, who are ironically more than likely hackers themselves.

Realize that, to make a class good, you need proper equipment.

And Shim, another point I agree on is that the majority of people that have their flawed opinions of the WTs are Fortetechers. I wonder why http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2007-01-11 16:24 ]</font>

[Kupi]

On 2007-01-11 15:07, SereneShadows wrote:

However, they don't see that. Why? They feel they don't want to do all that work to make your class powerful. Have any of you realized that you're eventually going to have to DO something to make your character good?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2007-01-11 15:08 ]</font>


Not that I disagree with you about the equipment, but part of "doing something to make your character good" is choosing a race. If one race is much better at a given class than another, it's a worthwhile effort to figure out what it is.

[SolomonGrundy]

I disagree heartily. Try beast a Beast Fortegunner, or a Cast ForteTecher. Two extreme examples but there it is.

Incidentally, Shimarisu (if that's who you are reffeing to SereneShadows), feels that base ATP *is* very important (hence her feeling newmans are not suited to this job, or that job).

As for proper equiptment...must be nice to have to have it. I can tell you as a level 45 hunter/Fortefighter 2, I got my *first* B rank armor with resist percents last night, and I have nothing grinded over +4 for fear of losing it.

I think people overlook how hard this game can be when you are starting out. 5 levels of Beast Force? Yipe! I'm not looking forward to 5 levels of Cast force, that's fo sho' and I'll have the advantage of it being my second character!

[Nani-chan]

On 2007-01-09 20:18, ShinMaruku wrote:
I just have but one inquiry:
Since I'm gonna have a female newman wartecher, will I be safe with my usual choice of the elements or I'll fit best with just them diga stuff and buffs?
I love to make stuff freeze and burn.


I did ask around and it seems Newman WT have more tp than say beast fortetecher, so I think either way works.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

actually, I heard that stat-wise, a newman wartecher is superior to both beast and cast fortetechers in every way except for PAs and S rank bows, cards, wands, and rods.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-01-12 06:11 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

Man, I want to drop Tra in the middle of Hive SS. GG FT defense, show those level 120 creatures who's boss!

Anyway, Wartechers are a hybrid class. Hybrid. Hybrid. Get that in your puny little brain. It's like saying "Oh noes, a Warrior can do more melee damage than a Paladin!" Of course, as WoW goes, people are more likely to claim IMBA!!!11111oneone when speaking of a Paladin's ability.

As for my setup as a Newman wartecher, at current I generally use:

Two-handed weapon
Two-handed weapon
Two-handed weapon
Gun + One-handed weapon
Gun + Wand (heal)
Gun + Wand (damage)

Works out pretty well for me. Buffs/debuffs will be a pain, I'd imagine. I might have to situationally remove my one-handed weapon for a debuff stick.

[ycavan]

I gotta say that the 5 levels of beast force went MUCH faster than the 3 levels of beast hunter, for me. 'n I HIGHLY agree on getting good eq!

1. Open a shoppe as soon as possible. Selling things to other players below NPC price will bring in lots of income. This will become your main source of revenue for a long time.

2. Synth as much as possible. I get materials left and right, just doing C/B/A runs ( at level 30, can't so S runs yet ) ie, I just bought a survivor board from someone last night for 8K vs 17K at NPC and have synthed a couple of them already. 10% light and 28% dark. If I were to have bought them from the NPC, I'd've spent near 70K on just 2 Survivors without element.

3. Force opens up Bows... Bows are "slower", but they have the same range as rifles. Ice Bows kill De Ragaan very easily. so... that's easily 8 MP

4. Grind Grind Grind! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Here's the "trick" to grinding... ALWAYS grind backup equipment. NEVER grind your main weapon... ie, if you want a mid-grinded (level 6) baton, go out and buy a bunch of 0-grinded batons for 300 or so from other players. Buy inexpensive Grind C's from other players for 70 (+1) - 180 (+6)... and yes, they ARE out there... or buy a Grind C board ( 300 ) and 5 Grind C bases ( 500 ) from NPC for 800 total... that'll make 5 Random Grind C's for 160 apiece. I generally grind all of my gear to +6, when I pick up a 0 grind of a weapon I use, I'll grind it up to the current grind level I'm at...

[ShinMaruku]

On 2007-01-11 21:00, Nani-chan wrote:

On 2007-01-09 20:18, ShinMaruku wrote:
I just have but one inquiry:
Since I'm gonna have a female newman wartecher, will I be safe with my usual choice of the elements or I'll fit best with just them diga stuff and buffs?
I love to make stuff freeze and burn.


I did ask around and it seems Newman WT have more tp than say beast fortetecher, so I think either way works.


I think so too becuase I need stuff to burn and I'll be invensitng heavly in units to keep me in the loop.

[Sharkyland]

If you don't like Wartecher, why do you want to go Wartecher? If you think the stats are low, change to another class, simple... as... that. Sure you can argue about data, but how you play determines your ability on how to use it.

In parties I take care of my fortetecher. When he/she is frozen/silenced/etc, I reverser or go into secondary healing status. I know some of you guys have played FO before so you know that huge delay time to actually cast and target a spell.

---

Though what I think is funny is that my BEAST fortetecher is getting close to my NEWMAN wartecher.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sharkyland on 2007-01-12 09:14 ]</font>

[Kimil]

Is it me... or did Wartcher get better over night? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kimil]

Update: still gimped lol... We NEED lvl 30 Skills and Techs... come one Sega,

[zanotam]

yah um i LOVE the class but with the update i feel like i have to switch http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif I just don't ahve room for a resta stick, attack stick, and 2 buff/debuff sticks http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif I like this class but now without rods we have too much room tooken up by sticks to be that effecient for melee. Not to mention i'm a lvl 32 WT 2 (god when will i get to 3 WHEN?!?!?) And I can use 7* i think even 8* wands and yet for melee i'm stuck wiht 7* saber (who gives a shit?) a 5* dagger and 4* everything else which is just plain GAY! SEGA GET YOUR FUCKING HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASSES AND EITHER MAKE US A BASE CLASS OR MAKE US NOT SUCK!

[Holo]

um anything else would make us overpowered really all i'd think would be fair is s-rank wands...but thats it

[Kimil]

Or... Left Handed Wands
THIS WOULD FIX THE SPACE ISSUE TOO

[Arika]

Very helpful guide . Thx a lot,normally I go after the jp guide(PSUwiki BBS). However, overall idea = same here

[Tita]

i'm starting to get the hang of the wand switch-balancing act. i learned to NOT carry around every buff you can think of: you have to be a little selfish when it comes to what buffs to carry, which is going to be 99% those that pertain to YOU, and 1% those that may pertain to your party. leave the majority of the buffing to FOs.

what i think WTs really excell in is Debuffing and re-buffing: we can run into the mob, debuff/rebuff as needed, and not get mauled. also, as mentioned in another thread as well: debuffs count as hits for exp, so you can go around and attack whatever you feel like without worrying about losing exp opprotunities. bye bye gun tagging!

THANK YOU DEBUFFS! you've made this beast WT's life a lot easier... and faster.

---------------------------
Decided to do some heavy duty rethinking concerning tech leveling: it's ridiculous to try and level more than a few techs.
these are the only techs i'm leveling atm:

foie
barta
diga (i want to specialize in diga spells, so eventually most digas. it just fits my character http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif)
buffs: shifta, deband, jellen, zalure, retier, zodial
debuffs: jellen, zalure
resta
reverser

mix n match as necessary.

i'm not bothering with megid spells atm, and even though i have a bunch of other technics learned (including a megid), i realized that its just plain stupid to try and level them all (what was i thinking?.. oh yeah OMG NEW SPELLS ajflsdjflajsdlk).

i personally would like to see what techs others are specializing in as wartechers, but i figure this should go in that WT wand thread....

[Mattardo]

I specialize in healing people who have the ability, but are very unskilled at it, and usually end up dying because of it. Sometimes I get the chance to melee!

[ShinMaruku]

Once megistar comes my jobs will be made eaiser too. XD

[Alisha]

megistar is self buff only bro http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif
me personally i'd pass on jellen and deband and just use shifta/zodial/zodeel/zalure.

[ShinMaruku]

self buff all I need

[Shiro_Ryuu]

ya, same here. I can't wait for megistal, it looks to be made for wartechers.

[jizaboz]

No swords as a wartecher?! Oh god... time to rethink my strategy...

[panzer_unit]

Spear and the new PA. You've got it covered.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

that new spear PA looks pretty cool, I think I should get it for my wartecher.

[BLACKR0SE]

My main job is to buff/debuff.Then dambarta if i need to.

[Natrokos]

On 2007-01-15 09:53, jizaboz wrote:
No swords as a wartecher?! Oh god... time to rethink my strategy...



Wartechers don't get the biggest melee weapons (axe/sword/dsaber)

[Jasam]

When I see WarTecher... I see two thinks, Debuffs + megistal.

And Debuff is probably the WarTechers speciality, haveing higher tech level then GT, and being in the middle of the fray...

[jizaboz]

yeah, I guess there really isn't a way to use a few basic techniques such as resta and swing a big sword like I did in PSO... oh well.

[Nani-chan]

Just in case it's relevant to your intrests.

Moubu Seiren-zan
lvl 20 145% att. 69% Acc. 15 PP

Renkai Buyou-zan
lvl 20 155% att. 83% Acc. 12 pp

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-15 16:08, Nani-chan wrote:
Just in case it's relevant to your intrests.

Moubu Seiren-zan
lvl 20 145% att. 69% Acc. 15 PP

Renkai Buyou-zan
lvl 20 155% att. 83% Acc. 12 pp



um...color me stupid...which is the new dagger PA?

[Nani-chan]

Moubu is the 2nd more expensive twin dagger PA.
Renkai is the spin around.

The good thing about Moubu is that each hit has a small conal effect, so there is a possibily for more than 4 hits.

However I just wanted other WT opinions since I got both to 20. Lol

[BahnKnakyu]

I saw the potential for Moubu initially - four hits for 18 (or was it 16?) PA spent = pretty efficient, and as you said, it has that "conal" effect that allows it to hit tight groups of mobs.

Then I got the second part of the combo.... and was sorely depressed. The second hit starts off with a slightly conal slash and then is followed up by a launcher. Good for say, Goushins (worms in Neudaiz), but bad for overall damage spreading. The launcher kick is VERY linear, hard to launch more than one monster with it, and you're spending an extra 18 PP just to do two extra hits that don't do much damage.

I don't really like Renkai Broken-zan either because of its lack of stopping power, so in essence, as a WT, the Twin Dagger PAs aren't that good for my playing style. I still think Buten Shurenzan is the best out of the dagger PAs currently available for a WT, maybe once we get that third Twin Dagger one I'll change my opinion of Twin Daggers, but right now they lack the umph that the WT needs to do good damage.

Dus Robado and Gravity Strike are pretty decent. The first hit of Dus Robado is pretty lame (since it's just one generic swing), but the second hit swings twice instead of once, for potentially twice as much damage. Gravity Strike is a quick and fast damage dealer, ideally suited for those damn worms that move too fast. It doesn't beat Rising Strike in terms of usefulness - more like ties it, but I certainly think that Gravity Strike is well worth leveling. Good speed, good damage - knockback may be somewhat annoying but we've already discussed how to knockback effectively rather than knocking back for the sake of knocking back. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[SolomonGrundy]

what happens when you rising strike those worms?

is there any "distance" Photon art with a weapon which will stun the worms so you cna swoop in and drill them?

the jellen thing is driving me Banannas

[Kimil]

What Melee PAs do you use with your WT and how would you rate them? Since we only get lvl20, and NO 3rd part of combos.

I use]

(first dagger PA)- Great for General Damage, but the knockback messes thigns up.

(second dagger PA)- (not lvled to 20) good for the worms, stuns em and keeps them above ground, but only 4 hits in total? at low damage... not that good for things other then worms at least things stay near)

(First Double Dagger PA) - (not lvled to 20) Good, just VERY GOOD for damage. Doesn't knock back so you can spam it. is the second one worth buying?

(First Spear PA) - (lvl 18) Good, as long as there lots of enemies in front of you in a line http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. The damage is very good, do you miss out on the 3 rd combo much?

(Second Spear PA) - (lvl 6) Not that great, works like Tornado Break just weaker... is it worth leveling?

(First Saber PA) - Very good for throughing things. Damage good, but in Bruce Dungeon I don't use it.

What others should I get for a FemBeast Wartekcer?

[SolomonGrundy]

(First Spear PA) - (lvl 18) Good, as long as there lots of enemies in front of you in a line http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. The damage is very good, do you miss out on the 3 rd combo much?

the 3rd combo is slow, and the worms can give it the slip...if you are lucky, and it goes off thoug, they do get stunned.


(Second Spear PA) - (lvl 6) Not that great, works like Tornado Break just weaker... is it worth leveling?

I was thinking this could be used vs the worms...



What others should I get for a FemBeast Wartekcer?


wand with zodeel, and another lightning spell (Razonde, Gizonde, or Damuzonde), Zodeel is a GREAT debuff for female beasts.

also good for any WT - the second knuckles PA - knockdown on quite a few non knockable creatures (polhavara, for one)

[Kimil]

On 2007-01-16 20:24, SolomonGrundy wrote:


wand with zodeel, and another lightning spell (Razonde, Gizonde, or Damuzonde), Zodeel is a GREAT debuff for female beasts.

also good for any WT - the second knuckles PA - knockdown on quite a few non knockable creatures (polhavara, for one)




Got the Wands covered http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif
Wand1 = Resta/Reverser
Wand2 = Zondeel/Zondial
Wand3 = Zalure/Shifta

(Attack spells.... I stay away from em)

And the KNuckles? Never even used one b4... they good? Is the Second one the spinny one?

BTW:

Lately, I've only been using Single Daggers and Nothing else... Should I buy something new, like the knuckles?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-01-16 20:28 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

Got the Wands covered http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif
Wand1 = Resta/Reverser
Wand2 = Zondeel/Zondial
Wand3 = Zalure/Shifta

I would recommend a diff set up if you do not want attack spells.

Zodial/Shifta on one wand, Both debuffs on the other.



And the KNuckles? Never even used one b4... they good? Is the Second one the spinny one?

The second Fist Photon art has only one move, but it's wonderful - it's a forwarch charge with knockdown. Great for disrupting attack patters (the Vandana, and Vahra). I do recommend it

BTW:


Lately, I've only been using Single Daggers and Nothing else... Should I buy something new, like the knuckles?

Single Daggers ARE great. They have more ATP by far than double daggers, and the PA is good. I have not purchased the second PA for single daggers, so I'm not sure how good it is, but I can say *try* the new fist PA..it's...fisty (also fists have good ATA)

[Alisha]

On 2007-01-16 20:09, Kimil wrote:

What Melee PAs do you use with your WT and how would you rate them? Since we only get lvl20, and NO 3rd part of combos.

I use]

(first dagger PA)- Great for General Damage, but the knockback messes thigns up.

(second dagger PA)- (not lvled to 20) good for the worms, stuns em and keeps them above ground, but only 4 hits in total? at low damage... not that good for things other then worms at least things stay near)

(First Double Dagger PA) - (not lvled to 20) Broken, just VERY BROKEN for damage. Doesn't knock back so you can spam it. is the second one worth buying?

(First Spear PA) - (lvl 18) Broken, as long as there lots of enemies in front of you in a line http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. The damage is very good, do you miss out on the 3 rd combo much?

(Second Spear PA) - (lvl 6) Not that great, works like Tornado Break just weaker... is it worth leveling?

(First Saber PA) - Very good for throughing things. Damage good, but in Bruce Dungeon I don't use it.

What others should I get for a FemBeast Wartekcer?





Fixed!

has anyone tried rising crush with wartecher? you dont really need the third combo since all parts of this pa in my opinion are for utility. so it adds to the support nature of WT.

[BahnKnakyu]

PAs with lv 11 second hits

Twin Daggers

Renkai Broken-zan - Good for damaging if you are in a crowd of enemies. It's fairly quick, but because of the Twin Dagger's low ATP you won't find yourself taking down mobs easily with it. It's good for softening them up, maybe, but I personally dislike this skill. But I'd go with the consensus to use and abuse this.
Moubu Seiren-zan - 4 hits for the first combo, 2 hits for the second combo, all for mediocre damage - it has attack and ata bonuses WORSE than Renkai Broken-zan and couple that up with the mediocre attack animation and you got yourself a bad PA. It's nice 1v1 though, but you have better options.

Spear

Dus Daggas - The Wartecher's answer to damage dealing. Hits fast, has good reach and owns multi-part monsters for free. Every Wartecher IMO should have at least ONE spear with this equipped because of how useful it is.
Dus Robado - The Wartecher's answer to the fF's Spinning Break. First hit isn't too good, but the second hit seems to have a wider arc, and it just looks plain cool. I use this in place of Renkai Broken-zan for crowd conrtol.

Saber
Rising Strike & Gravity Strike - I'll put these two skills together only because they're just damn useful. Always handy to have at least one saber equipped with either of these skills because of their sheer speed and mobility.

Twin Saber

Rising Crush - It's sluggish, but it's a good utility skill, as people have said before. Sets up mobs so that you and your teammates can own them while they're knocked upwards. I'd use this in areas where stuff moves too much (i.e. Relics, Mizuraki Defense, etc.) to keep them in its place.

Assault Crush - This PA suffers from not having the third hit. You really need that third hit to put an exclamation mark to the rather plain lookin first two hits, and because of that I'd avoid using this unless you feel like leveling a PA.

Single Dagger

Buten Shurenzan - I've been using this PA since day one and I've hardly ever taken it off my list. It has good coverage and moves fairly well, and the second part is excellent for crowd control and crowd damage. This is what defines the Wartecher IMO and should be a primary part of your arsenal for dealing damage.

Shunbu Shurenzan - This reminds me of the single dagger version of the Knuckles PA, and I guess you could say that's pretty good if you need to do fast damage NOW and keep your use of single daggers. I wouldn't put this up in my priority list to level though. It's decent, but again it lacks any real stopping power - it seems to be much like the first hit of the Knuckles PA - to do lightning quick damage.

Claws

Shousen Totsuzan-ga - A much beefier version of the Rising Strike PA - it's a bit slower than Rising Strike, but it absolutely owns 1v1. I suggest getting the claw and PA when you can. The only thing it suffers from is its excessive PP use vs. the weapon itself, which doesn't have enough PP to support it.

Knuckles

Bogga Danga - Quick and accurate strikes, but because of the inability to use the third sparkly hit, it really suffers. 1v1 it's pretty decent, but you got much better 1v1 options out there, but the second hit lacks any real use - can't hit multiple monsters with it and the hit itself is very linear. I was sorely disappointed when I got this to 11, was hoping for something decent.
Bogga Zubba - ICHIGEKI HISSATSU. Damn good crowd control for damn good damage. Since it's only one hit, you don't miss out on anything, and really, its utility is just freakin awesome. Since you're a WT, you can stand in the middle of a mob and crank this baby up and knock all of em up to set them up for your teammates to own them. Not an *essential* part of your PA repertoire (sp?) but it'd be a good thing to have.

Twin Claws - Haven't had a chance to try them, will comment later.

[ShinMaruku]

Well the Twin claws are a love it hate it thing becuase first part your just jumping and dropinf slahing what's infront of you seocnd part is where it get better as you you then bounce form side to side slawhing again.