this is a thread
Printable View
this is a thread
Might want to specify that according to sakai, jet boot PAs, and normal attacks scale from T atk.
Kicks scaling from striking damage multipliers is implied.
Seems like the datamined Break Master skill on Fighter and EWH2 on Techer seeped into this class and became stances.
I really wonder how the Elemental Stance compares to Weak Stance and Element Weak Hit.
If it's not just a carbon copy, then I hope it's not clearly better than both combined nor worse than either alone.
As in, I can only see it picking from the following:
- Applies to all damage types
- Applies the full bonus if your weapon's attribute matches the target's weakness
- Applies to weak spots with any element
WS is 1&3 while EWH is 1&2.
But it wouldn't really make sense if ES were 2&3 since Bouncer is a hybrid, implying #1, and it's clearly got element in the name, ruling out #3. So is it an active EWH that can be interrupted with a cooldown? Or will it have all three, making it strictly superior, like Fury vs Brave vs Average?
I mean, it could just ignore weapon attribute entirely and depend on some unique Jet Boots element switching skill, but then it'd be pretty much worthless for Dual Blades, limiting build options fairly heavily.
Isn't Elemental Stance just going to be the thing they showed in the demo video, where the element of the jet boots changes based on the last tech you used? Bumped describes it by saying "Hit the elemental weakness". Changing its element to match the tech you used would allow you to hit the elemental weakness simply by changing the element.
I thought that was something separate since it wouldn't make much sense as a stance. It can still be an active skill like many others, but a whole Stance feels more like "devote half of your build for +1% Atk/SP"
That wouldn't make sense, because the element of the boots was changed to match the tech used, which has nothing to do with elemental weaknesses. It doesn't even have to hit anything. It can allow for elemental exploitation, but the elemental changing function of Jet Boots is not restricted to exploiting weaknesses, so Elemental Stance can't be it.
I'm still wondering if Strike Switch has something to do with applying corresponding elemental mastery to Jet Boot's melee hit.
And if Sega is planning on adding 1 pointer skills that enable a specific class's main-only skills (looking at you Sega trying to make BO a good support class, but have the new TE support buff be TE only).
The slide on Strike Switch actually uses similar wording as Wand Reactor.
Though instead of "Striking Attack (stat) Conversion Rate" 「打撃力変換率」 it says "Striking Performance Conversion" 「打撃性能変換」
No, it's not "Striking Power (damage)"「打撃威力」 either, it's some vague nonsense I've never seen before.
If it's the reason why some Jet Boots have S-Atk, then does that make the skill worthless for those without any on them? Or if it adds S-Atk based on the T-Atk of your weapon... isn't that worthless period?
Or it could be something else. Dual Blades get a skill that doubles your photon blades when you attack, so maybe Switch Strike adds extra hits of some kind? That, or all it does is flip between a combo and tech weapon palette, meaning you can't mix PAs and techs together unless you use the item palette.
Organized OP slightly.
The melee weapon for Bouncer is called Dual Blades, not Photon Blades. Photon Blades are swords that it generates.
Gosh not the Double Sabre Twin/Double Blades confusion again. I though we left it all behind.
Nah, doublesaber is pulled directly from Star Wars and means it's got two connected ends like a double dildo
'Twin' implies the two weapons are the same type, while 'dual' could be any two (bladed) weapons paired together. Although looking at the Bouncer promos that doesn't seem to be the case.
They should've gone with "Paired" tbh :/
It's pretty clear which is which if one is a pair.
Personally I fail to see the inherent difference between twin daggers and dual blades in concept.
Considering how big Twin Daggers are, I wonder why is there a difference? I mean really now...
I would enjoy a double dildo double sabre weapon camo. Do it sega.
^ such a slut.
So how bout them TeBo/BoTe? No one? I guess we're all aboard the BoFi hype train.
Techer will be the best Bouncer sub, despite giving the least out of all the classes!
Bouncer with Jet Boost would benefit the most from a Techer class considering its support attitude, but yeah, Bo/Fi Dual Blades sounds like a beast combo class. I've also heard that DB are going to absorb PP during attacks, but I don't know if it would work like a Gunner's PP Restorate or something. Btw, both subs would work great with Bouncer, and it looks like a real fun class to play with.
It depends on how Bouncer's element changing for the boots, and elemental stance work. If it's compatable with element weak hit it might be good... at least the other way around (whyisshiftastrikemainclassonelyfuckingsega). I hope there are some good all class boots. I:
Reading about this class in full now, I will be willing to try a new thing, let this bouncer spark a new flame. I just hope it makes me use ice and dark tech properly. Molly Carpenter is back. :P
The one thing that I want the most regarding Bouncer is a good Jet Boots weapon with Innocent Appearance (Techter-equipable as well will be nice). Jet Boots seems like it would be a fast-paced weapon so it would make sense that it isn't slowed down by tech charging when you decide to manually use techs.
I'm kind of salty that TE's new support skills are main class only. I want to play BO/TE and not TE/BO...
God I cannot take any of these shorthand class terms seriously.
All I can think of is being on a boat and Tim Tebow.
edit: not that i took fo/fi seriously either
Well I call Br/HU Vergil GU/HU Dante and now whatever is Bouncer's make up Molly Carpenter. :P
I read break dance skill at first .....that would be awesome though
The thing its though, even if you can guarantee you will always match the target's weakness, Average Stance is stronger, even for uncharged attacks. The only useful buffs are main Techer only, so all you're getting is Territory Burst, yet Bouncer is supposed to automatically cast support stuff so who knows if that would even work with it.
Really feels like it'll be a much better idea to just ignore elements and sub Fighter or Hunter. Though if Jet Boots count as purely elemental, then Braver would be a much better sub all around. I don't expect element Masteries to work, but if they did it'd make Force the ideal sub.
I think the most interesting skill from name alone is the elemental PP field thing.
Will it be tied to elemental stance? Will it be some sort of toned down ketos-proi?
Double Saber refers to a double bladed weapon, Dual Blades refers to two weapons. It's not synonymous.
One is reverse grip, uses smaller weapons, and has lots of kicking attacks. The other is normal grip, uses ordinarily sized swords, and generates photon blades.
Elemental PP Field has a description almost as helpful as Switch Strike. Not helped by it being combined with Critical Field for the description. "Strengthens one's surroundings", gee, I wonder what that could possibly mean!
IT'S NOT ALWAYS ABOUT YOU OKAY
Yeah I rarely quote what I'm replying to anymore. But I don't see it being much better as Te/Bo either, since you'd wanna use a wand primarily, and Jet Boots do their own thing entirely. Not really sure what the Bouncer skill tree will offer over Hunter, Fighter, Braver, Force, or even Ranger.
Also Br?HuHuHu
Gunslash is a onehanded weapon.
What's this about Critical Field and Elemental PP Field?
It was just made to point out that Maenara was being silly by overgeneralizing weapon concepts.
You use it as a blade with 1 hand, you use it as a gun with both hands (one to pull the trigger, one to steady the weapon, similar to how Assault Rifle and Launchers are held).
Are you deliberately being dense about this? You might as well say Ryu and Ken are identical. Twin Daggers and Dual Blades, design-wise, are similar, not the same.
>Compiles Bouncer information
>Doesn't get all the stuff released in trailers
It's on Bumped.
They aren't identical any more than Twin Daggers and Dual Blades are.
Subscribing this thread because I'm ready to jump on BOTE dick and the 3st is real for BO info.
That being said, has it been confirmed that BO is not tech-casting native?
You didn't miss anything. We literally know knoghing about how they work or what they do.
Based on the fact that casting support techs is one of their advertised mechanics I'd be hard pressed to believe that they can't. That would be like hunter getting weak bullet.
We've seen them casting techs normally, and I doubt they'd show it of if they can't do so without a caster subclass.
Um, I seriously doubt you need the caster subclass (although who knows with sega :-?)
I can definitely see you only able to cast techs when the boots are equipped though (considering they showed no gameplay of bouncer casting techs otherwise) This wouldn't bother me too much though, as with the blades I'd be more focused on going Swish, Swish, Stab anyway.
Sure there are. "Strengthens one's surroundings". That tells us everything about what those skills do.
I never said the details were useful...
I don't understand. Why make the thread and not make a point to actually research and keep track of what's been released? You didn't even get the name for Dual Blades correct, and made no correction even with everyone else that has ever posted about them using any name besides Photon Blades. You even have some rumors listed in the "facts", like with how Switch Strike might work. It doesn't really look like you're trying here.
EDIT: Wait, when did you revise the first post. Now it looks really good. Never mind, no complaints now. It didn't look so great before, but it looks perfect now.
EDIT 2: DBZ as an abbreviation for Dual Blades? What!?
Flawless reasoning skills. Can't argue with this!
Is there a good reason you're being an asshole right now or just because?
If you look in Braver Talk, most of the info is credited to other people(One part is even credited to me, go figure).
And please point out in the OP where I forgot to change Photon to Dual.
No I understood it. But what I'm saying would it be that bad if a braver could cast if they subbed bouncer, but had to equip the boots to do so? Obviously it would be broken as hell if they didn't need the boots to cast.
Why would a Braver need to cast techs? :wacko:
Edit: Oh, I know. Lillipa TA. And that's it. ._.
You mean it'd be exactly what everyone wanted out of a tech hybrid since the very start? Well, besides buffs being worthless, subbing Bouncer would be your HUnewearl.
So unless Br/Bo's melee multipliers are higher than Hu/Br or Fi/Br, it won't be overpowered just because they have Zondeel.
Okay, okay, I get it, Zondeel and every other technic is useless for all class types that shouldn't have it.
I don't know how, but I hope bo/te or bo/fo becomes a thing. We have enough classes to sub hu (and now fi) with. I'd love to see some jet boot PA autocast an ilfoie or something.
More importantly, my main concern is if you could freely cast techs while weilding dual blades as Bo/Hu.
If the blades prove to be a strong melee weapon in time on its own like katanas did eventually, and still have support techs with no real loss of damage because of a sub-optimal subclass choice... yeah...
Don't get me wrong, i always wanted a hybrid that wasn't painfully sub-optimal/struggle to know its own identity. I just assumed it would be limited to jet boots when bouncer was announced.
Don't worry, all the actually usable support is Techer main only.
Nothing of substance to discuss -> better be insulting over the tiniest and pettiest bs we can find
good old psow
*Enter thread and see it got sidetracked with hope of BO's tech casting being restricted to Jet boots if no FO or TE sub/main*
...
Why? Sega made rares with Tatk for most if not all not FO/TE weapon category, the bibras bow being among the most notable, so you can cast from the subpallete and not deal mediocre tech damage. And even a few 10-11* katana with mid-high Tatk on them exist...
I honestly don't see Sega blocking tech casting on one weapon type when in hand, especially on a class meant to be a tech hybrid, even if more melee focused than TE was and is now. No Tatk on the dual blade outside of some rares, that I can see happening.
*Read Gigawuts's post* Hey, I'm gonna admit I'm guilty here.
I don't understand the question.
The Braver talk thread's OP doesn't even try to compile Braver information outside of the info accredited to other people. For the criticisms I do have with this thread, from the start, it was aiming to be a better resource of information, and that makes it immediately superior to the Braver thread on that account.
And your contribution was datamined information that you didn't even datamine yourself anyway.
I didn't see that you had already made those changes and updated it. I was pretty quick to edit that in after double checking the OP, but it looks like I was a minute too slow. The only thing that needs correcting now is that ridiculous abbreviation for Dual Blades. DBZ? What.
You know the saying about assuming, yes?
Nothing wrong with that.
Go play Br/Te. Is that broken? No. Why would Br/Bo be broken? Because it has 10-30% more damage compared to Br/Te? That won't make it broken.
I really don't understand the issue here. Dual Blades are obviously going to be balanced around having innate access to support techs if Bouncer has full access to techs.
Last time I checked the only thing you can do is auto cast techs. There wasn't any mention of casting techs from your palette or while Jet Boots were equip. Jet Boots use PAs, not techs. All techs used in the reveal video were auto cast techs (against RB, iiFoie wasn't even fully charge). The element being fired from Jbs aren't techs (well, they may use the same properties but they're not actual techs on your weapon palette, more like normal attack button techs?). So... why do people believe Bouncer can manually cast techs? :wacko:
Did I miss something from the last conference?
It's just funny that their attempts at making buffs any good still get completely outclassed by Zanverse and WB. Techer is less and less viable as a subclass let alone a main, and these restrictions aren't helping to bring about interesting class combinations.
Huh? They never moved while charging ilfoie. You can clearly see them starting to charge it, they just let it go before it finished. The point of that section was to show how they can hover while charging techs. There are several other parts where you can see them straight up charging and casting techs.
EDIT: You're talking about htis part right? There is a casting animation, that little backflip. The male bouncer did it in the section before when he casted shifta.
http://youtu.be/6ZvXGtcl6SE?t=36s
Jet Boots have always been shown to be able to cast techs normally. They were even shown doing exactly that before the elemental change demonstration. Where have you been?
It did have a casting animation. Their animations are kicks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHOGy_gmX00
0:39 the character does a backflip. That is not an attack. That is the casting animation for techs where the character raises their weapon pointing upwards.
For refrence (in Garuga's video, cause it's higher quality)
0:25: The male bouncer casts shifta normaly, after charging it. IT has the same animation as that ilfoie cast did.
2:25: Auto cast support techs. They seem to be linked to the PAs.
2:38: Casting techs and element shifting. It seems like the element they use is based off the last tech you used. In every instance they've shown the element shifting they used a tech first.
2:53: shows her using ilgrants and then using light elemental kicks on the wonda, then megid and dark kicks on the dragon.
EDIT: also in this video you see her casting foie then doing fire kicks, and barta, then ice kicks.
Hmm, I just assume she was hover in the air.
I see now. It makes a lot of sense since she was using ilfoie. For some reason, I didn't notice the little flip at the end until now. :wacko:
HNNNNG 1000 post! I'm never posting again. RIP ME.
I'm glad that got cleared up then.
There's still the posibility that bouncer can only cast techs with boots equipped, but I don't see why that kind of limitation would be there.
^ I've wondered about that too, But who knows. So, is Jet boots faster in tech casting speed, which it could be confirmed or was it just a trick of the eye?
What makes you think Bouncer wouldn't lose out on melee damage?
Sub Techer for wider range and better Zanverse, main Force for offensive techs. You won't have faster, longer, and stronger Shifta. You won't have all the bonus PP regen.
So unless Bouncer's skilltree itself is totally broken and becomes the new universal subclass with higher consistent bonuses than Fury Stance, I don't see why it'd be so bad to have techs. It's a strike/tech hybrid. It can cast techs. That's part of what it does.
I clearly said Bo/Hu in my post. Hu still bringing the most unconditional striking damage multipliers from what we know. Subbing anything else will be a loss in pure striking damage at one point or another.
It's something they haven't done before. It's not their norm. I'd be cautious and not get my hopes up too high.
Don't think anyone who's playing a melee/tech hybrid would let that bother them.
Oh ok. So a strike/tech hybrid using techs and striking attacks.
I don't get it.
Resta, Anti, situational Deel, and the other support techs, and also having access to all status aliments. TAers could use techs to hit buttons from a distance. Bo melee can Deel enemies away from towers in TD, even freeze them. Maybe something like Razan will be useful against flying enemies or knocking down enemies in general. How about applying poison to Quartz?. All that sounds goods but it takes way too long to execute, and melee user have already adapt to the environment. It'll probably be a fun class to play during week one with all the techs and stylish combos, but once the hype is gone you'll switch your gameplay to whatever gives you the most optimal runs. And every now and then some random Jp might find something we haven't thought of, maybe.
Right, I meant to bring that up. Jet Boots definitely charge what appears to be twice as fast as other techs. A half second difference in charge times is 100% impossible to mistake. .5 seconds is very fast. But so far, there are still zero details on what enables this, how, why, or what limitations exist. A shame, too, because such a detail is extremely important for Bouncer's tech using abilities.
Versatility is its own kind of optimization. Being a hybrid class won't make Bouncer worse than pure-breed. Sega just needs to pull it off properly. Bouncer should be in a good spot with every other class as long as the ball isn't dropped on it.
Hm? Which ones charge faster? The Megid @3m seems to take a full second to charge. Even the Shifta at the beginning of the video is pretty slow, so doubt he has Flame S Charge let alone some innate property of the boots. The six-way element switch demonstration cut into the shot after they started charging, so you can't use that scene to judge timing.
Another thing, in one clip you get to see two PAs, two techs, and normal attacks done in a combo. That looks to me like they have techs set to their item palette, though they could have just switched weapons, and it could mean they still need shoes on. Don't think they showed techs with two swords, but it's not like they have much reason to.
Ah, I see now. The charging animation is just really subtle, so I failed to properly observe when it actually began. Well that's a stupid mistake to have made. *Sigh*
If Switch Strike has no animation, it could be that it allows for players to switch between PAs and techs instantaneously, without a cooldown on it, even while mid-attack, but I doubt that's the case (that would be the coolest route they could go though, at least in my opinion). They probably were using the subpalette. And yeah, Dual Blades were not shown using techs, which is really stupid. Yeah, they're melee weapons, so it would make sense to show off its melee capabilities, but it would be so much simpler for everyone if Sega just showed them using techs even once, so that there wouldn't be any doubts about whether Bouncer could use techs without Jet Boots or not.
What type of evasive maneuver does twin saber and jet boots use? From what I've seen, the twin saber gets some sort of longer step dash and the jet boots has something resembling Gu's s-roll only that it goes backwards to a greater distance.