Rising strike (saber) vs Shunbu Shouren-zan (dagger)

[SolomonGrundy]

Both hit 2 targets, 2 times @1-10
Both cause "launch"

Rising Strike hits 2 tragets, 2 times @11-20
Shunbu Shouren-zan hits 2 targets, 1 time @ 11-20

Shunbu Shouren-zan needs time to "charge"
Shunbu Shouren-zan costs 9K


Why would I ever invest time in this Photon Art?

Your comments are welcome

[panzer_unit]

I can't use daggers on my main, so most of this is based on experience from elsewhere.

1. not all launches are created equal... there are mobs Bogga Zubba can't knock down that Grenade hits will, and vice-versa.

2. it's more efficient to concentrate your resources on fewer melee weapon types. Now you can make/buy/carry nothing but daggers and have both the awesome old PA and a decent first-hit launcher.

[Rizen]

Offline, Shunbu was my favorite PA. It does a good amount of dmg and works well with mechs.

And about the speed comparison...Rising Strike and Shunbu are about the same time, just seperated differently. Rising Strike is a bit slower with the hits and has a short pause in between strikes while Shunbu has the pause at the beginning and the strikes following are almost instant.

Thought I might just throw that in.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-30 10:00, panzer_unit wrote

1. not all launches are created equal... there are mobs Bogga Zubba can't knock down that Grenade hits will, and vice-versa.

2. it's more efficient to concentrate your resources on fewer melee weapon types. Now you can make/buy/carry nothing but daggers and have both the awesome old PA and a decent first-hit launcher.

1. here is where I ask specifically what the dagger PA launches, and you tell me to read your whole post where you mention you cannot use daggers.

2. Should not really matter, boards cost the same, materials are the same, same number of photon arts taken up, etc. Arguable slightly less palette swapping? But HARDER to figure out what is what. Saber icon looks a LOT different from dagger icon, so I immediately know my rising strike tool. if I have two ice daggers, I'm relying on reading the text as I switch.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-30 10:13, SolomonGrundy wrote:
2. Should not really matter, boards cost the same, materials are the same, same number of photon arts taken up, etc.

... yeah, but if you get wildly lucky making a saber and it has 50% element you can't use it for your main damage PA (e.g. buten shouren-zan). You'd have to start leveling Gravity Strike.

FWIW I may have just convinced myself to learn Spinning Break even though I don't like the move.

[Rizen]

From what I remember, the dagger PA pretty much launches/heavy flinch any and anything thats not a boss.

[Reiichi]

Saber is likely better overall in terms of atp and ata iirc.

Dagger regens faster so you can spam it more.

Protransers can't use single daggers. Wartechers get access to S daggers but not S sabers.

The flinch, launch style of rising strike is typically preferred as it spaces the attacks out rather than together which wastes the flinch. The second move of rising strike is also better than that of the new dagger PA.

In the end it's up to preference. Some people like to use daggers, some prefer sabers. Most PAs typically have a crowdcontrol AoE and a concentrated fire DPS so you won't have to get every PA. If you wanted to go all daggers or all sabers you wouldn't be at a complete loss.

[ljkkjlcm9]

Single dagger I find to hit harder. It's also two quick hits compared to two slower hits. Daggers also tend to have more PP, meaning you can use it more, and the regen is better.

That being said, typically if I use saber, I use gravity strike, and dagger I use the first one, the name escapes me, so both of these are not preferences for me to use

THE JACKEL

[panzer_unit]

Most melee weapons seem to have a higher-damafe PA (the ones you named) and a less damaging "defensive" alternative... Axe has Redda for damage and Durega as knockdown/mobility thing. Knuckles, same deal with Danga for damage and Zubba for launching.

[SolomonGrundy]

seems to me then, that the PAs should cost similarly, as the "value" is not there...