Fanboy's (im)Perfect Guide to Forteteching

[Tra]

On 2007-04-15 14:56, TorterraEndor wrote:
Radiga isn't 180% x 3, it hits one target per enemy, so they're completely unrelated damages. 180% x 1. 180% x 1. 180% x 1.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TorterraEndor on 2007-04-15 14:59 ]</font>

Do you read what I wrote?

"Do you know what Ra-techs are for? When in situations with 3 targets and no more, that's where it will outdamage all other techs. It's the fastest aoe tech you can use and it does great damage. Use some math: 180% x 3 radiga spam, highest output you can get when there are 3 targets. Any more you use a gi-tech. Both are useful, but you cannot put the ra-techs down, for not only it's high point in damage, but it being pretty much the most versatile set of techs around; being that it's the easiest to use in any situation when you get it down right. You just need to aim it right."

Where in here did I mention that radiga hit more than one enemy per cast? I was comparing it to gi-techs and how to use both. And if you were going to point out that any monsters with multiple targets can only be hit once with techs, no I wasn't talking about that, OBVIOUSLY.

Also, an efficient FT uses support first than attack techs for extra damage, FF and FG will outdamage FTs, period. So I'd rather them apply SEs than try and be the best DPS(Which is a very US/EU FT way of seeing things...Japanese FTs are better than all of us and our mothers). But freeze is useless, I'll give you that.

You still don't get the point. You act as if support is a tough job to do. Buff, heal, reverser, wow that's it. Instant heal, cure, buff in a large radius. WOW such a time-sinking responsibility! You can bias your opinions all you want, but just so you know, if you regard damage as useless, you'll be completing missions in a slower fashion. Oh that's perfectly fine for me though, you can swim in your mediocrity as long as you want for all I care.

Why don't you list some reasons why you say support comes first than attack techs? What kind of parties do you join? Noobs that don't know how to play? Sure, do whatever you want. The groups I usually am in I don't need to support AT ALL; this is an easy game and why the fuck would you want to waste your time?

A beast fortefighter with a palette of 30%s cannot outdamage me, however one with 50%s can out-do me in most situations by far. So as far as your opinion goes, it's worthless.
If you really hate fT damage that much, I can link you to a couple things:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...68340618&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...96162147&hl=en

Got a fortefighter video you want to show me? Go find one of a 80/10 fF with all 50%s own up Plains Overlord S LOL.

[TorterraEndor]

Did you read what you wrote?

On 2007-04-15 21:25, Tra wrote:
Use some math: 180% x 3 radiga spam

They're unrelated damages. If you think you can use that as an example of high damage, then a level 20 doing 100 damage every attack he does owns you, 100 x 300, do the math. But since its flawed logic, stop using it.

You still don't get the point. You act as if support is a tough job to do. Buff, heal, reverser, wow that's it. Instant heal, cure, buff in a large radius. WOW such a time-sinking responsibility! You can bias your opinions all you want, but just so you know, if you regard damage as useless, you'll be completing missions in a slower fashion. Oh that's perfectly fine for me though, you can swim in your mediocrity as long as you want for all I care.

Why don't you list some reasons why you say support comes first than attack techs? What kind of parties do you join? Noobs that don't know how to play? Sure, do whatever you want. The groups I usually am in I don't need to support AT ALL; this is an easy game and why the fuck would you want to waste your time?

You're a prime example of why US FTs suck, and for some reason everyone strokes your ego so you further think so. With one FT supporting, and the rest of the team focusing on doing the damage, they will do more damage each than a FT, period. I'm not gonna bother pulling out numbers, because you fail hard if you think otherwise. If you find any videos of importers or Japanese players playing, the FT barely use attack techs and the team is far more efficient than partys on US servers where they do.

It's pretty laughable you say support is easy and admit it helps, then go on and say you don't do it. Whom is the noob?

A beast fortefighter with a palette of 30%s cannot outdamage me, however one with 50%s can out-do me in most situations by far.

Maybe if you don't support them. But I do like how you say "Cannot outdamage me". So high and mighty.

So as far as your opinion goes, it's worthless.

Its not opinion if its true.

If you really hate fT damage that much, I can link you to a couple things:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...68340618&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...96162147&hl=en

Got a fortefighter video you want to show me? Go find one of a 80/10 fF with all 50%s own up Plains Overlord S LOL.

Oh, yes, the Labs S2 video you always crawl to when you need help. Its amazing how challenging it is to stand still and press your Gidiga/Hold Dambarta button.


Why would I want to solo in a party game? Thats stupid.


Edit: And lol at "I don't care if you suck but I'm gonna reply to your posts anyways to stroke my e-peen more"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TorterraEndor on 2007-04-15 21:42 ]</font>

[Tra]

"Edit: And lol at "I don't care if you suck but I'm gonna reply to your posts anyways to stroke my e-peen more" "

Now where did I say that? I definately care about what people here post. I'd like to hear your reasons of what your opinions are and you clearly didn't name them except saying "oh JP players are better support = good and efficient and no reason or proof needed to be given". Get fucking real.


I don't know how you can argue facts:

Ra- techs, faster, less PP, and most damage when there are 3 enemies. What else is there? I clearly told you the exact situation on when to use it. Does a spamming a longer-cast, PP draining Gi-tech on 3 enemies outdamage a ra-tech? No. Would you say otherwise?




What do you call support? I said it's easy. Just resta when somebody is low on hp and reverser whenever they're hit with a status ailment. Wow, is it that complicated? If you think that's a job I don't know what you'd expect if you played other MMOs.

I just buff, and that's over with as far as support goes. The rest of the party goes on with my buffs to kill efficiently without needing my help, I'll just reverser whenever they get hit with freeze or stun. what else do you need to help them with? What do you call support anyway? I'd like to hear it.

I'd have to say your assumptions on how I play is very silly. The only reason I even disagreed with your point on support is purely because that I already DO support. Because support is just a secondary, EASY thing to do. And from what you're saying, supporting is along the lines of a sweat-inducing job where you have to hold out a heal rod all the time. You wanna be most efficient? Take 10 seconds to buff the party, then you're good to go nuke. Have your party use mates. Reverser when they're incapacitated. Resta takes time when trimates do the job perfectly fine. I don't know what your support for JP players is, but they are more casual players.

And hey, video of a fortefighter doing that kind of damage please. I know they can, but I'd like to see how you use your examples. I really like how you shrug off my lab s2 video, because it was a prime example of how a fT does damage LIKE IT OR NOT. Oh no it's definately not challenging to do gidiga/dambarta. But I ask you this: How challenging is it to buff and reverser?

[Feelmirath]

The groups I usually am in I don't need to support AT ALL; this is an easy game and why the fuck would you want to waste your time?

I already DO support

Errrr, yeah.

[Tra]

On 2007-04-16 00:00, Feelmirath wrote:

The groups I usually am in I don't need to support AT ALL; this is an easy game and why the fuck would you want to waste your time?

I already DO support

Errrr, yeah.

let me elaborate. From his point of view, he's saying support is something that a fT has to devote themselves to. my view is that support is.. explained in the above post.

[imfanboy]

Ah yes, the 'fun' of soloing as a fortetecher. I did a little bit too much of it hunting a Crea Double and now it puts me to sleep.

Did anyone else notice that, no matter how highly Cherry talks about Ra Technics, she didn't use a single one in that precious Labs video? In the past two weeks, I can only think of once when a FT used a Ra Technic in a run - and it was Rabarta. If they need to do distance damage, they go with Foie, Diga, Noszonde, or Nosdiga.

What I find most amusing about the diatribe is that I list Diga in the Technics every fortetecher should have, put Nosdiga in the Technics that are "Well, helpful, but not for everyone", and even say in the Diga entry this is one of the best ways to deal with Endrum robots, but somehow that isn't good enough for Cherry. Go figure, eh?

And support speeds up a team so much. Soloing's all well and good if you don't have any friends online (or at all), or you're hunting for something and don't want to share, but a team should kinda work together. Even flinging out a Zalure to lower a lower-level mob's defense, or Zodeel to let the fighters hit the front of a Deljaban for a change, lets the group march through enemies as though they were nothing.


It isn't necessarily that support is hard, Cherry. What's hard is supporting first, then doing damage WHILE still supporting. At least seven out of ten fortetechers that I know get so fascinated by the shiny explosions coming out of their rods that they don't even watch and see if a teammate is low on HP, or is Jellened, or do anything but lie and say, "Whoops, wand locked!" over and over and over as their friends die instead of admitting that they just don't care about anyone but themselves.

I recall one run through De Ragnus S where a fortetecher made my GUNTECHER do all the buffing, debuffing, AND healing because he just loved flinging flaming feline feces - er, Diga - so much that he said, "I won't do it." Not only that, I was the only one with an SE4 Burn because he 'didn't like foie or bows', and so I was doing the job of a fortetecher AND of a fortegunner. Now, in a lower rank run, that'd be fine. Hell, even if we're overleveled for the area, it's cool if the FT wants to focus on damage. But to just blow off his friends and refuse to buff? Especially in an area that WAS difficult?

Damn, I wish I had fraps so I could make a silly movie of ME being both supporter and doing DPS. I know Deja's probably got it, but he's a CAST - it wouldn't be hardly the same thing as watching my newearl not only maul enemies, but help her friends maul them too.


But thank you for telling me that Megiverse has a wider radius than the other Gi Technics - my two friends with Megiverse haven't gotten it to 21 yet, so that was very helpful. *edits first post*

[imfanboy]

fixed

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: imfanboy on 2007-04-16 00:17 ]</font>

[Tra]

Here, I'm going to say it, support is a way to play, I totally respect that. But I'm not going to step back to say that it's superior. A jellen'd teammate I immediately remove it by re-casting shifta, and then I continue with the nukes... because I KNOW if that teammate remains jellen'd, damage (and thus mission progression) is greatly reduced. It take s a split second to throw out a support tech in the middle of whatever you're doing.

But I know fTs on my list that are support WHOREs. You'll always hear the resta noise like every other 10 seconds. If that's how they play, alright that's fine. I just disagree that this is an efficient way to play because this kind of over-use of support techs is not necessary, simply because the game is not that hard, when you could be contributing to completing the mission that much faster, as I have already pointed that fT's damage can well "support" the killing. If you wanna give examples of bad fTs, just keep in mind there are lazy players of every class, just that lazy fTs are more noticeable because usually the party relies on them kinda.

[imfanboy]

well if we agree, why are we arguing?


EDIT: meant to hit preview, not post.

Not being flippant here. I'm saying that being able to balance the two, both damage and support, is what makes the perfect fortetecher. For most people who play the game, focusing on a small palatte of Technics that work everywhere and getting them to 21+ is a more effective way of playing than trying to get all what, 20-odd attack Technics to 21+.

A lot of fortetechers, if they go the second route, end up forgetting little things like how Deband helps prevent damage, or how it's really a good thing to have Resta close to hand. To help them down the first path, I specifically endorsed some Technics, said others were just fine and dandy to add if you wanted to, and then gave a list of Technics to avoid.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: imfanboy on 2007-04-16 00:41 ]</font>

[Raysa]

Acrotecher = Fighting Priest/White mage
Fortetecher = Redmage D: