Official Acrotecher thread sans negative bias

[-Shimarisu-]

I do not think the official Acrotecher thread should have been started by somebody who thinks tech hybrids suck and hasn't played it or seen it (nor the improved WT) in action, so here we go, the AT thread for those going AT who don't think it sucks.

C+Ping my previous info for now.

Sounomi is welcome to post advice here, will be appreciated.

On 2007-05-10 02:05, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2007-05-09 22:31, Zorafim wrote:
This is another class that doesn't interest me. People say that it's meant to mix melee and support

It's meant to mix tech and support. Tech will be your highest damage. If you want to solo, OR MAXIMISE DAMAGE IN PARTY you should go tech, use whip to immobilise, use twin handguns to shoot down flying enemies. Only go melee in situations where it will do the most damage AFTER status infliction via foie. Ie, single daggers on large enemies.

It is potentially a fantastic solo class. It beats FT for solo. Which is great because FT owns too much at solo for a forte class (fortes shuold be specialised for PARTY PLAY) and needs to be taken down a peg by a GOOD tech heavy hybrid for those who prefer tech.

You want predominant melee, go WT.

I see this as a very good class for a newman or human. Forget going beast or cast. WT beasts and casts manage ine, with optimal wand equips and units their tech is 4/5ths the power of newman WT and ATP far better.

I wonder why people can't look at the damn numbers and see logic. That's without even needing to play the class. I have NOT played the class but I duoed throughout AoI beta with a human AT player. I was on my beast WT. I can see how this class is meant to be played.

My newman is going AT/FT/GT and my beast is going WT/FF/FG.

See the damn numbers? Now tack on the levels of PAs possible and note that between level 30 and level 40 attack techs there is not an AMAZING world of difference, especially given not much lower levels of TP. ESPECIALLY considering soloing when tech will be augmented by ten extra levels of support.

This is not like the difference between WT's current level 20 tech PAs and FT's level 30, because WT has much lower TP.

It's a huge world of difference however, between AT's level 20 MELEE PAs and FF's lvl 40 (in AoI). Melee should be your absolute last resort on this class.

It's a great support class and a great solo class for teching fans.

On 2007-05-10 02:14, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2007-05-09 21:44, NIloklives wrote:
The only thing that has me a bit thrown by this class is at a techer class it lacks the use of bows. I undderstand it was for balancing purposes...but it's just wonky...

It's quite likely going to be lvl 5 FO, lvl 3 RANGER requirement IMO.

It uses twin handguns instead of bows, and while it gets S in daggers and twin daggers, bear in mind twin daggers and daggers are equippable as a basic FORCE class.

Twin daggers instead of bows is just fine and dandy. May I recommend learning the ice twin handgun PA on your human or newman that's going AT, as that's the most commonly used element for shooting bosses. At least one new AoI boss is ice element, but the ice PA is still going to be your most used ranged PA if you still plan on playing older missions.

Edit: Also note, ATP mod is low. You are still going to be better off with cards in most situations, but for shooting bosses with no other option, I'd suggest learning a twin handgun PA. Not all of them, because your predominant method of attack WILL be with techs.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-05-10 02:22 ]</font>

Addendum:

What I've done for now with my newman going AT is go GT for a while to raise bullet PAs, he can NOT equip cards as yet on FT due to being low level, but I think this advice is worth taking into account.

What you should raise support wise on a character intended to ALTERNATE between FT/AT.

Twin Handguns:

Twin freeze (for bosses. The new AoI boss is ice element but twin handguns have poor range on him anyway.)

Bows (you can't use these as AT so keep them minimal for FT)

Reiseisou (bosses)
Enseisou (SE4, plus new possibly ice element bosses)
Inseisou (SE4, optional IMO compared to above two.)

Cards

A wider range here is good, so use the ones you find useful depending on maximising damage in areas you play in most (earth and plasma will be more used in AoI so bear it in mind), but bear in mind your tech.

Melee:

Learn just one dagger and twin dagger PA if you must, you need to keep tech in mind as it's your strong suit. Leave one PA slot for whip, it's damn useful.

Tech

Learn all support techs, that much is obvious. Once you're full up on those you need to fill your quota with the most damaging tech PAs left. Most of you going AT should have gone AT with FT experience prior, as tech is their GREATEST damage potential. So all your other PAs should be tech. Obviously the "noobcannon" PAs of Dambarta, Diga and nosdiga go here, but you should also learn Foie, RA and GI techs to your prefence, and yeah I said RA. Learn RA techs to maximise your damage potential, AT has less damage overall than FT and hitting with RA in many scenarios will do more damage than GI even though GI is very useful on this class due to higher HP and def than FT.

Anyway, this is what I've done with my newman going AT and I'm still trying to decide which PAs to put on him as my final quota, but I hope this helped.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-05-10 13:48 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

How about Sabers for melee PAs? Also, about attack spells, I heard that Madoogs don't realy have the best PP, and from what I've seen, Dambarta just drains the PP out of my wand when my female newman is a Fortetecher. Maybe I was just spamming it like a n00b(well, I am a noob fT, never had much experience with it before )
But yeah, I think this thread seems to be better and more informative. Even better than mine about Acrofighters.

[-Shimarisu-]

Madoogs don't get the best PP, but bear in mind you can dual equip wands and madoogs now, the total PP will make up for the inability to equip rod.

I don't know how the kubara 8* wand grinds, but if it grinds well it's a consideration - insane PP right there.

If it doesn't grind to good TP just use the best wand for the job and grind high. Bear in mind wands and madoogs get increased attack rates, madoogs are even faster than wands. I'd put basic, RA, GI and support techs on madoogs, dam and nos on wands. Sparing one madoog/wand combo slot for all four buffs.

On the subject of saber, AT DOES get S rank in daggers and really you should keep your melee PAs low to max potential on tech. If you want to launch, the second dagger PA (I forget the name) is good for that. The chargeup time for that PA is quite long but on a more robust char like AT it shouldn't be a problem re. the risk being hit while building up the attack. It also seems to have a higher rate of launch success than the saber PA.

[DonRoyale]

Is melee really that bad? I was scanning screens and comparing stats and could've sworn AT beat out WT for ATP...hmm...

It's sad. My pretty Serafis will take that much longer to equip.

Still, I do have most of this set up in my head about how I go about things already.

Madoog > PSU. As AT, they make this statement even more true, because you can tech and melee. What's not to love?

[Kupi]

On 2007-05-10 15:23, DonRoyale wrote:
Is melee really that bad? I was scanning screens and comparing stats and could've sworn AT beat out WT for ATP...hmm...

It looks like the AT's ATP is lower, actually. Even if it were marginally higher, the level 20 Skill cap means that a WT would swing not just stronger but more accurately. Their melee capability is there (unlike for, say, a Fortetecher), but as Shimarisu's exhaustively pointed out, it's not something to use except where nothing else will help.

[Ceresa]

Rather interesting class, Lv90 Newman AT vs fT will only have around a 100TP deficit in base stats, though that may change drastically at higher job levels. And down another 100tp from Rod vs Wand...Of course since most fT will use -100TP har/quick+rod and AT should use xx/force(maybe techcharge) they'll be pretty even statwise, with fT only enjoying maybe 1-200 dmg per tech from Lvl 40 techs/12% element boost...

Most(all? dunno) of the single weapons don't even have a 3rd PA attack anyways, lvl 20 skills vs 21+ is hardly a handicap and more then enough to outperform techs on the resistant enemies. Considering the relative infrequency of mobs that take half tech dmg and you can spam PA on them to your heart's content.

As if fT wasn't already a soloing god, now nearly 2x the hp/dfp and some atp for the hell of it, it's like RAmarl...with techs instead of guns.

I don't know how the kubara 8* wand grinds, but if it grinds well it's a consideration - insane PP right there.

At +10 the kubara is 550tp 1182pp, 9star Majimura+0 is 541tp 801pp (612/1011 at +10)

Depending on how easy the new grind system actually is to get +10, Majimura might be better to just grind a few times and leave it at that, 800-900pp + madoog pp should be plenty for most situation anyways.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-05-10 17:04, Ceresa wrote:

At +10 the kubara is 550tp 1182pp, 9star Majimura+0 is 541tp 801pp (612/1011 at +10)

Depending on how easy the new grind system actually is to get +10, Majimura might be better to just grind a few times and leave it at that, 800-900pp + madoog pp should be plenty for most situation anyways.

IMO the new grind system is better for hunters. With rangers and forces, it's better to break 9/10 weapons getting a 6* to +10... and how many A ranks would that equate to? Might be easier to produce a +10 with the current system in anticipation for AoI. Unless they are going to have both systems in place, either by allowing people to choose or by going back to the old PSU disc for current weaps. I'd really like it if you got a choice however, because for 6* non high %s/ra/fo weaps, the current system is far better.

[DrewSeleski]

Also keep in mind regarding pp that you get the benefit of both the madoog and the wand regenerating pp at the same time as compared to a rod that has only one weapon regenerating pp.

Oh and I overheard some people who played the beta saying hybrid tech classes get higher pp regen rates on thier weapons than the fortes as well. It wasn't a huge difference but every little bit helps.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DrewSeleski on 2007-05-10 17:41 ]</font>

[Tra]

On 2007-05-10 17:04, Ceresa wrote:
Rather interesting class, Lv90 Newman AT vs fT will only have around a 100TP deficit in base stats, though that may change drastically at higher job levels. And down another 100tp from Rod vs Wand...Of course since most fT will use -100TP har/quick+rod and AT should use xx/force(maybe techcharge) they'll be pretty even statwise, with fT only enjoying maybe 1-200 dmg per tech from Lvl 40 techs/12% element boost...

The extra 10 levels from level 30 to 40 techs is already 200 damage, for your average tech, about 500 damage for foie/diga.

12% rods equals about 100 damage already (12% ice halarod compared to a 0% halarod), for just dambarta right now.

All of our SE3 techs are boosted to SE4

All of our techs grow larger or grow faster


but I'm not gonna be arguing much, because obviously I haven't played AT yet. But when it comes out that's when I'll come out with raw facts and screenshots videos/whatever annoying shit I'd have to make to prove points.

[-Shimarisu-]

This is the AT thread sans negative bias, so please can forte elitists stay out? Thanks.