The future of Rangers. Suggestions? Comments?

[ChaosAngel92]

Ok, im back from the hell. So yeah, aparently dodging moves are quite popular among gunners. And i can agree too that a moving FPS wont going to solve the things.
And i keep asking myself, are we are other thing that a support class?

Yeah, at least me. Im not complaining about the damage that gunners do. Im playing with a lvl 59 "Gunslinger" (my way to refer me to the GT ) and the damage i give with Ice art, and my grinded whole made by myself Deathmakers is awesome. Personally, im not very fan of other ranged weapons, why? because you just sit and shoot, and dodging is almost impossible. Wehn you want to do it you have already a Diga on your pretty face.

What im complaining, or most people is complaining is that gunners are quite pretty, well, "bored". I mean come on guys, people prefer Hunter because it moves a lot and do funny movements with the photon arts. Yeah they can be bad at soloing (ok, i do not know who posted this but, lol, i think that HU are the ones that can solo more than any other class) or bad at inflicting status effects. But you move a lot and you do, well, funny things that gives another way of gameplay with hunters.

Also one thing, and im talking of "expectation". WTF is this? Well, its more than less like this. When you create a new character, you go very happy to your store and you buy your favorite melee PA if you can afford it. Then you learn it, stick to your weapons and start playing. You just can wait to see what is the next combo. You need to and you keep playing with it because you want to see the next move, what it will happen etc etc etc.
Now here is the gunners example. You go to the store, and you buy you favorite element, or the one that is most recomended (yeah ice). You tick it to your weapons and you go start playing. But you know that, as the time passes the bullets aint going to change a bit. Yeah, Status Effects change, but how many people cares about this? Also, xbow and cards change at different levels, they have one more bullet, but these are support guns for other classes that thir main weapon is not a gun. The unique ranger weapon that changes at 11, 21, 31 i the shotgun. But, the visual is still the same, nothing new its just the same.

[ChaosAngel92]

On 2007-07-09 10:18, Rashiid wrote:
rangers had a past?

Yes they have, on PSO but they were more like fighgunners. It was a pretty good combo to instnt freeze with the SNOW QUEEN and kill them with your double saber. Yes, Rangers on PSO could use double sabers, not all, but they have some powerfull ones.

[Niloklives]

if you want flashy, don't pick a gunner class...if you want efficiency...then play a gunner.

[Niloklives]

On 2007-07-09 11:53, ChaosAngel92 wrote:

On 2007-07-09 10:18, Rashiid wrote:
rangers had a past?

Yes they have, on PSO but they were more like fighgunners. It was a pretty good combo to instnt freeze with the SNOW QUEEN and kill them with your double saber. Yes, Rangers on PSO could use double sabers, not all, but they have some powerfull ones.

the best they could use was stag cutlary. and even then no skilled ranger did that seriously. if you had a snow queen and a cure/freeze, you were a god. RAmarls even had techs at lvl 20 so they were good for buffs debuffs and ranged support. if you didn't have a snow queen you still had a few good rifles and a good set of mechs. they killed so fast and rarely missed...using anything else seemed like a joke compared to them.

fighgunners of today are more like the HUcasts and HUcaseals of PSU. just like WTs are SUPPOSED to be the HUmar and HUnewearls of PSU and GTs are the RAmarls/mars and fGs are the RAcasts/caseals.

[Aralia]

NIlok..
You're not the only lvl 80/10 GT/fG... I've been there done that obviously...

All the things you said just there... don't always help.

I'd have to say I'm one of the most effective gunners on the pc/ps2 servers.
The problem lies in the hardware for me. Adding a dodge move would make it more fair for those of us who go into bullet time the second 5 or more enemies come onto the map.

Also. I have melee weps, I'm a PT on that char as well meaning I have rising strike and a saber on me at all times. I use x-bows to silence a vanda, and a shotgun is suicide on them, believe me. the reload period after firing gets you smacked with diga, kthx.
I know traps are not end all be all, but when there's 4 vandas right next to each other... bam, confuse and they damfoie each other. pretty sweet since they themselves use lvl -4- burn.

Arguably, the missions are easier solo, since you don't have a dumbass melee'er running in and knocking the enemies our of that nice spot you coaxed them into. I.E. Vears.. I can't count how many times I've gotten a vear stuck on a wall only to have a melee run in, use a knock back pa, it spins killing the melee'er, then comes off the wall after me.

Range.. yes, it's nice.. but when a swarm of vandas are chasing you, you can't keep the range.. add in that THEY have ranged attacks it just sucks.

I only FPS with rifle, and it's only when I'm at a safe distance.. but while I'm focusing on one mob, the hunters might have sent a vanda off to my right out of my vision that's gonna diga me.

And of course.. mobility.. MY main weapon these days is a ****ing crossbow.. how much more mobile do I have to be huh?

believe me, I know how to solo.. but when it boils down to it, it's boring to have to take the same plan of attack -every- time you do a run. which, normally, isn't the only run you'll be doing.
That, and it's nice to abuse certain maps to get a bullet to 21 or 30 or w/e.

I said flat out, it's not needed, it only helps.

You still fail.

I fail to see why you're -SO- against adding something new to rangers.

look at AoI.. do we -NEED- anything that's in it? huh? PSU is fine on it's own right? by your logic.. we don't -need- AoI.. So I guess we shouldn't get it huh? =p
See.. we're all trying to discuss how it'd be "nice" to have this. we aren't expecting it.

Post your 2 cents.. if people agree, they agree, if they don't get on with your life and stop trying to convert people to your way of thinking! You're not the catholic church, you don't get that right!

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 11:51, ChaosAngel92 wrote:
the damage i give with Ice art, and my grinded whole made by myself Deathmakers is awesome. Personally, im not very fan of other ranged weapons, why? because you just sit and shoot, and dodging is almost impossible. Wehn you want to do it you have already a Diga on your pretty face.

What im complaining, or most people is complaining is that gunners are quite pretty, well, "bored".

You'd be bored out of your tree as a fighgunner too. Get Tornado Dance, max its level in a day, there's nothing left for someone who can't be bothered to use more than a single skill for a single piece of equipment because they're shy of the challenge.

BTW plenty of melee skills only have 1-hit or 2-hit combos. A few more of what's left have 3rd moves that you generally won't bother using.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-07-09 12:34 ]</font>

[Aralia]

TD is pretty useless though. Why even bother if you're only going to have 1 skill for Dbl saber, you might as well use spiral dance.
If you're gonna have 2, TD/GD
IF 3, then have all 3.

Of all PA's I use TD the least. It's easily replaced, and is barely worth the time.
Any other knock back/up PA does the job better unless you need to cover lot of ground fast.

[edit] Fighgunner is easily the least boring class..they have access to all melee weps except axe. Just because you don't get S rank in a wep doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. With the variety they get.. it's hard to be bored.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aralia on 2007-07-09 12:44 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 12:22, Aralia wrote:
I fail to see why you're -SO- against adding something new to rangers.

How about adding something to make Ranger's job HARDER instead, since it's cakewalk right now. Tasty and expensive cake, if you're doing it with any style, but cake none the less.

For starters, how about cutting guns PP capacity and regeneration rates by a factor of 3 and making photon charges cheaper... so you've got to hit your action palette to "reload" more frequently, and maybe make less-than-occasional use of the melee game mechanics that gunners never have to touch? Maybe crank up SE application rates to match, so pulling out a gun is really boss instead of spending forever picking away.

EDIT: I'm not saying anything about Fighgunner, I'm talking about the attitude of finding one thing that works sort of well and then NEVER USING ANYTHING ELSE. If you get busy switching between optimal skills and weapons on a gunner there's no monotony at all.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-07-09 13:05 ]</font>

[Aralia]

Why make it harder? I don't see a point.

Like I said before.. you're looking for a challenge? Play a 1 player game.

fG's don't get effective enough melee capabilities yet to make any sense of using them.
Once AoI rolls around I can guarentee I'll be using Dus Daggas more on my fG as well as rising strike.

As it stands here and now, fG/ FG/ fT/GT all are pretty much on even grounds. fF and in some ways PT/WT are the only ones that even remotely need any change to them. (Come the 13'th any fF with a frying pan will be on the same level as the other forte's) PT/WT need to be nerfed a little since PT has lvl 3/4 SE's out the ass. (traps, Bows, Frying pan)
And WT.. don't ask.. it's just too powerful in too many ways.. Most of the power of a fT with more HP than a FG, and the proficiency to use lvl 20 skills meaning nothing can corner them... I don't see why fG needs to be nerfed when WT is so obviously more powerful.

PP is fine on guns, I run out enough on the ones I use. You want lower PP? Play GT as though you were a fG and have fun with the higher PP cost.
You want to use melee as a gunner? well.. I got news for ya.. there's already a class like that called FighGunner.
Crank up the SE applications? it's called a trap. =p

Simply put, if that's how you feel, you shouldn't be playing fG since the other classes are what you're looking for.

Now.. if you're the type to -only- use rifles.. yes.. the pp is sick..

but about 20 grenade shots makes me need to reload.. that isn't even 1 drua gohra.
My x-bow runs out after 3-4 mobs, 2 if I'm using zagenga. (not our main wep.. but it's our most damaging weapon)
My twins last a while yeah, but that's a good thing.. why should I have to recharge a weapon every 5 seconds if I only use it occassionally to begin with. PLUS FighGunners and GunTechers are the ones who are meant to use these babies.. They have a higher PP cost for those classes.. cutting their PP would hurt everyone -BUT- ForteGunner.
Laser.. no one really uses this, some do.. but most don't bother cause it sucks unless you -make- it not suck. (this baby is reserved for mayalee.. which has a high PP cost..hmm.. gee.. that'd suck wouldn't it)
Rifle has lotsa pp yeah, but it also is our "sniper" weapon. Not meant to be exclusivly used... Take up a stance while your buddies are killing stuff, once you've DoT'd some enemies, run in a bit closer and use other weps. Rifle is not your best friend.. just a friend.
mech guns... these run out of pp fast too... plus again.. it's not a forte's main weapon.. it's meant for FG/GT again..
Shotgun too much PP.. yes.. I said it.. this and rifle are the only ones with too much pp.. but then again.. this is our main damage weapon.

Ideally.. Shotgun is the only weapon with too much PP.. and that's because it's supposed to be our main damage weapon.. I.O.W. you're supposed to use this weapon the most, it's high pp compensates for how much it's intended to be used.

If you do a run exclusivly using shotgun, you'll use about as many photon charges as a fT would using a rod.

Again.. just because something is spammed to oblivion, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. Simply stop using rifles/twins as much and use some other weps..

There's no need to make fG less powerful... if you're going to nerf fG, then nerf WT.. they have lvl 20 spells and level 20 PA's and eventually become just as broken as fG.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 13:31, Aralia wrote:
Why make it harder? I don't see a point.

I don't see a point in changing the class AT ALL. I get along fine with my Fortegunner, it's certainly not boring. Yeah, level 21+ grenades or Killer Shot will have even Fortes popping charges all the time.

But this thread's not about me, it's about the single-weapon-spamming gunners who don't have to hit one too few buttons for their enjoyment. It sure as hell shouldn't be something making gunner EASIER to play, so why not keep the monkies busy by changing the role of guns so it's impossible to use them without some finesse?

If memory serves, I'm giving a decent description of how guns work in Extra Mode. They're stupidly effective (rifles serving knockdown, able to burn Kamatoze at SE2, etc) but only have the PP capacity of a melee weapon so they run out really fast.