Ugh, I cannot STAND how people still discriminate against ga

[Raine_Loire]

On 2007-12-01 20:56, ABDUR101 wrote:

It's a sin in Islam aswell, but in the end, who cares? If a homosexual christian has come to terms with themselves and still wishes to remain as faithful to their beleifs as possible, who is to say "Well you're not really a christian, because you're gay", when the last I checked there were plenty of 'christians' getting divorces, having extra-marital relations, cheating on their spouses, having abortions, and generally doing alot of other everyday sinning. I was raised that a sin was a sin in God's eye, no sin greater than another as God despises them all equally.

That IS the point I'm trying to make. Every sin is the same in Christianity, and if you sin you can expect to go to hell. Unless you repent and ask God's forgiveness. Someone who lives their whole life as a homosexual and thinks there is nothing wrong with it isn't going to repent, and therefore will end up in hell. You can't be "kind of" a Christian according to the bible. Your sins can be forgiven, but you have to ask for it first.

And then you have people who grow up isolated from diversity, wherein they grow up and bash others whom they aren't able to 'come to grips with'. However, keep in mind what you just said for the next quote.

You seem to think that by not associating with someone it means turn a blind eye to the fact that they exist, and never speak to anyone. Maybe associate with them is the wrong word... more like you shouldn't have sinners as part of your circle- friends, spouses (which wouldn't be a problem anyway...) It's usually used to say Christians ahouldn't marry non christians. And a true Christian would not "bash others," they are told not to by Jesus.

So, true Christians aren't to associate with sinners, and yet they are also to go out and..associate with sinners in hopes of sending them on the right path?

Wonky. Funny, I was always taught that only God would make a beleiver out of a disbeleiver. I do beleive the "Going out and compelling others" is nothing more than "Crusade-talk".

Umm, the crusades were an attempt to bring the holy land (Jerusalem) back under Christian control. Crusades aside, it IS supposedly the duty of all Christians to spread God's word ("be a fisher of men"). It's not Islam (convert or die), but it also not making people your best friend to convert them. As far as the confusion with the word associate, I'll give an example of what I mean... When I first moved to Germany, we lived in an apartment that was on a Jehovah's witness' route. She came by several times trying to convert me, but eventually I just stopped answering the door. Now I'm a remarried woman (sin one) who got pregnant with my son before my husband and I were married (sin 2) and I often wish my ex husband was dead (sin 3, I'll see ya in hell!) so that makes me someone who needs to be converted. Did she "Associate" with me? No- not really, I couldn't even tell you her name and I doubt she knew mine- although it was on the door- she simply spoke to me about her religion and why she believed it was "the" religion. I doubt my sinning nature hangs about her neck like the proverbial millstone, I'd hate to think my aura is THAT evil ^_^ But she attempted to convert without associating with me. That's what I meant. A Christian should not have friends that are gay, but they should talk about their religion to gay people in an effort to

But again, who is anyone to say what is and isn't a true follower? Maybe they have far greater faith and devotion to God, Himself, as a God, than to merely goto church and read the bible and follow blindly. Lots of people can goto church and listen to sermons, but it's very much down to the individual and God.

Personally, I beleive that if someone wants to have God in their life and, between them, their life, and God, their business is none of my concern. I don't need to bat an eyelash about it, if they're at peace with where they are, thats what matters; and I find it highly offensive for anyone to step in and cause a disruption to that. It would be no different than a mass of muslims or jews going into every church during sermons, and saying "You are all sinners, you are all going to hell because you're not beleiving in God as God wants you to".

Of course- you're speaking of what I call Sunday Catholics. Reading the Bible and attending services are easy to do, and they don't make you Christian at all. Following god's laws, keeping His word, that's what makes you Christian. it goes for every religion. If I read the Qur'an does that make me Islamic? No- because I don't live my life by their laws. A true follower follows the laws of their religion- they don't decide which ones their god did or did not mean to have followed. You can't just skip the ones you don't like- or the ones that you don't want to apply to your own life.

As far as your Muslim and Jew analogy- those are different RELIGIONS so it isn't the same as a Christian who does not follow the faith (for whatever reason) being told they are going to hell. I'm pretty sure that all Catholics know that if Muslim really is the true religion that they're all going to hell- they wouldn't need a parade of Muslims to tell them that.

Everyone needs to live as they see fit and are comfortable; but the issue arises in that everyone else needs to keep their damn yaps shut and let others live as they choose.

Look, the bottom line is, if a person who is Christian says they don't want to befriend a gay based on religion- isn't that them living how they want? Can you choose other people's friends because you don't like their criteria? I met a Saudi man on FFXI who told me that since I was divorced and had a kid, the only thing I would be fit for in his country would be a hooker. I certainly am not going to sit and preach tolerance to him when that is his religion, and the way he grew up as well, I just accepted that that was his belief and left the linkshell. You can't tell people how to live. That includes how they practice their religion, and who they befriend.

Being black is not a sin, nor have I ever heard any religion preaching to the opposite...

Same with being a woman...

Divorce- not a sin for a man, sin for a woman.

Children born out of wedlock- sin... future generations cursed.

Some of that stuff was frowned upon by society but has no connection to religion, so don't confuse issues. Not all the evil and intolerance in the world begins with God- some started in the hearts of men themselves.

I don't beleive he was confusing social issues with religious issues; he was merely pointing out that in society, there have been hurdles that every minority or class has had to overcome. I think you misread what they were saying.

Here:

On 2007-12-01 13:41, Broodstar1337 wrote:
It's a big deal now because people are idiots. It takes time for individuals to be more reasonable when it comes to hot topics such as homosexuality. Remember this, there were times when society frowned upon black rights, women's rights, divorce, children born out of wedlock, etc. But society grew to accept all of those things

You forgot the next sentence in his quote, so I would say it is YOU that misunderstood...

This is the next sentence:

On 2007-12-01 13:41, Broodstar1337 wrote:
As society accepted, religion released their strangleholds.

Ummm... yeah.

On 2007-12-01 15:31, Solstis wrote:
Honestly though, Jesus hung out with a crap-load of sinners, and Matthew was a tax-collector. The Bible is contradictory when it comes to hanging out with sinners. The primary assumption, I believe, is that if you are virtuous, you won't let your judgement be clouded and whatnot.

You forget how David was a murderer... and Saul, who became Paul... and don't get me started on Mary Magdalane! There's also the problem of the New Testament and Old Testament Gods seeming to be 2 different Gods based on policy and execution. The bible is completely full of contradictions, and to be honest, a serious question of authenticity should be brought up but rarely is. I was just bringing up Christianity from a subjective viewpoint, more academic than saying it's what I really believe. I have too much of a problem with religion, I've labeled myself agnostic since I was 21. The only point I have been trying to make is that people who say everyone should be forced to be friends with everyone else regardless of beliefs is just as intolerant as the religious people they are so upset by!

And I believe it was Jesus who said "Let he who is without sins cast the first stone" was it not?

[Weeaboolits]

People are stupid, they love finding fault in others and having something to hate. I don't care what kind of bedroom company you keep, it's none of my damn business.

[Pengfishh]

I was listening to my local R and B station just a few days ago, and the DJ was going on about this study he'd read. Apparently, researchers interviewed a few hundred college males to see where they stood on homosexuality and split the research group into guys who were extremely homophobic, to anger even, and guys who didn't really care either way.

After submitting them to homo-erotic imagery and measuring the fellas' sexual arousal, researchers determined the violently homophobic fellas were most aroused.

Lashing out at other people about things we don't like about ourselves? Certainly seems to be the case.

[ABDUR101]

On 2007-12-02 11:11, Pengfishh wrote:
I was listening to my local R and B station just a few days ago, and the DJ was going on about this study he'd read. Apparently, researchers interviewed a few hundred college males to see where they stood on homosexuality and split the research group into guys who were extremely homophobic, to anger even, and guys who didn't really care either way.

After submitting them to homo-erotic imagery and measuring the fellas' sexual arousal, researchers determined the violently homophobic fellas were most aroused.

Lashing out at other people about things we don't like about ourselves? Certainly seems to be the case.

Yup. Find in others what we detest about ourselves, and then we have a focal point. Hating others for issues we haven't come to terms with is easier than actually dealing with them.

[Sekani]

For the record, this wave of prejudice and ignorance isn't one-sided. On one side we have the religious right's moral movement to "protect the sanctity of marriage." I personally think this is stupid, since they're going from preaching God's word to trying to get it enforced as law, which is a major faux pas. Let God be the final judge, not some loudmouths on cable TV.

On the other side, and actually more annoying to me, are the new waves of anti-Christians (formerly known as atheists) who openly go out and speak against the perceived wrongs of organized religion, while committing some of those same wrongs themselves. How can they call other people intolerant while openly declaring that anyone who believes in God is a brainwashed buffoon who can't think for himself?

This went off on a bit of a tangent, so sorry about that, but I wanted to get that out there, and this seemed like as good a place as any.

[BlaizeYES]

On 2007-12-02 00:06, Mystil wrote:

On 2007-12-01 08:51, KodiaX987 wrote:
THIS IS MY DICK.
There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My dick is my best friend; it is my life.
I must master it as I must master my life.
Without me, my dick is useless. Without my dick, I am useless.
I must fire my dick true.
I will shoot wherever I please and make love to whomever I please.
Before God I swear this creed: my dick and myself are defenders of universal, undiscriminated love.
We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until there is no war, but peace.
Amen.



Here, send this to your friend and watch him shit himself in confusion. I expect the death threats in my mailbox by Tuesday.

WHAT THE HELL? LOL!

he replaced "gun" with "dick," and i'm not sure but i think that speech came from full metal jacket, or jarhead, or something. its been a while since i've seen either movie but i know it's in one of the two movies.



the only thing i want to know about this subect is to know why the lisp comes about. is it because homosexual males usually will hang out with women and adapt to several female mannerisms? a homosexual male back 5 years ago in my highschool used to push his hair behind his ear like a woman will do, yet he had no hair on his head, and never did have any hair. i observed this on many occassions as he was in my speech class giving speeches and constantly doing the "hair push," and i kept wondering to myself, "is this a learned behavior? does he think that since he is homosexual and talks like the females in his friend circle, he must also mimic their physical behaviors as well?" i just dont understand. and when i hear someone with a lisp and a very "light" talker, i and the rest of the world say "gay." is there a universal language you are given as soon as coming out of the closet?


now, i'm not talking about all gay men. i've met a few in my time, mostly as you move to the beach, but many will do "the accent." but i think that its more of an "image" sort of thing with some homosexuals, as i've met many that didnt feel the need to "broadcast it to the world" and watched football and chappelle's show with some of my other friends. one guy i met was very outgoing, down to earth, and he couldn't have seemed more straight. he even talked and hit on females throughout the night. so it has to mean that a few select people feel that they must "project their feminine side" when they admit to being homosexual. maybe its a "character" they must represent, as finding homosexual mates are probably harder to do, so they have to make sure it is known by everyone "i am gay."



i myself am a heterosexual, but i have a hard time grasping homosexuality. i still don't really understand homosexual men's behavior changes. i understand women, the female body is a mark of beauty, which is why guys will "freak out" when girls start making out, and girls will say they are "bisexual" just to turn guys on. but at the same token, other lesbians will switch their "gender roles" and go to dressing manly, like that danny off of that horrible show "tila tequila." i could have sworn that girl was a male the first time i saw her. i just didnt really understand it. i guess that everyone just finds their attraction to different things.

[ABDUR101]

It comes down to how femme they are. Myself and the guy I was with are straight 'acting', most people never even know we're gay until we start talking about something that would make you go "...ohhhhhhh".

Aswell, there are homosexuals who enjoy their femeninity, they enjoy that entire aspect; being submissive in the bedroom, glam, gossip, full vocals that blatantly point them out as a femme.

I personally find it overbearing, I think femme's paint a pretty bad picture of the gay community with their overly dramatic flairs and antics; but then I just don't like overly dramatic people in general.

However, there are gay guys who REALLY get into femme guys, and then there are gay guys who just like an average everyday guy; it's like making your best guy friend; you both enjoy it, you both have fun together, and in the end you can cuddle and enjoy each other physically. Nothing better than going out on the town with your best friend, stopping by the bar, then going home together and having someone to shag. So really it's win-win.

And yeah, there's a broad spectrum of what people are attracted to, I think it's just more publicized in the gay community, because it's not like you have alot of options depending on where you live; so the signals you send have to be direct. If you're the flamboyant submissive type, you have to make that clear. Aswell, unless you're in a gay club or bar, having the flamboyant femme behavior just marks you for who you are, and lets others know. Imagine going to a bar as a gay man, and not knowing who's gay and who isn't; but if you go and you learn the 'signs', you can pick people out.(Through out the years, there have been many 'signals' to let others know whether you're gay, and whether you're a top or bottom.)

[Solstis]

Some guys are just more feminine, and they don't *necessarily* do it on purpose (I've asked). A swishy early-teen might not even be out of the closet yet, so it's not that, but the kid still is pretty girly. It happens.

The problem is when feminine guys become coded as lesser people. On the flip side, the straight-acting guy could be seen as basically being a jerk, trying to seem straight in order to "pass." It's a real mixed bag.

As for lesbians... I don't know. Go ask a lesbian. Why do lesbians smoke (kidding... sorta)?

Anyway, some people do the lisp, some people don't. It's just a thing. Sexuality is really too complicated to be understood, I guess.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2007-12-02 15:58 ]</font>

[ABDUR101]

Yeah, sexuality itself is just a mixed bag. You're not going to be able to wrap it up.

Some people might like a lisp, some guys like swishy feminine guys, etc, etc. And yeah, there are just people who have a lisp, or are feminine and are perfectly straight.

Thus, to each their own to shag and bag I say. If they're happy, who cares?

[AlexCraig]

Peter Griffin from Family Guy said something like that once. I totally agree.

If gays want to be married and be miserable like the rest of us, I say who are we to stop them?