Wartecher

[LTrav2k]

On 2008-05-05 18:00, dc534 wrote:
Yeah they are only getting it in my opinion because of the simple fact that AT would out damage them in every aspect then, both melee and tech since their buffs allow them to make up the ground as far as melee goes. I like the weapons that WT has but I think they deserve one PA over 30, every other class gets one, AT will have 50 buffs which almost destroys WT. I really think 40 skills should be the next move after 30 buffs, I mean it would really seperate WT and AT then for good. I just feel WT got the shaft once the expansion hit, AT is faster so they dont need lvl 40 techs, WT needs lvl 40 skills to make up for that extra speed AT has. I just dont understand why lvl 40 skills is not in order for WT.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dc534 on 2008-05-05 18:06 ]</font>

I don't see how you can gather that even with the extra 15% boost from buffs that Acrotechers are outdamaging Wartechers in melee.

The 10 levels in PAs more than make up that difference, and unless you're sticking to just the AT selection it's very noticeable. You have many high powered two handed weapon PAs to choose from with spears, twin claws, twin daggers, and even twin sabers (with the appearance of twin durandals and twin DB swords... we can rock those and get S rank results!). The SEs we have on our S rank weapons are amazing, and after leveling Vivi Danga to 30 I can see why WT didn't get S rank whips.

[mll]

WT is fine in comparison to every other class except AT and doesn't need any more boosts. The extra 10 melee levels on WT is a fairly minor advantage when the speed boost and ability to equip an SPS on an AT comes into play.
We do have a pretty big advantage in weapon selecion but AT has access to every kind of melee pa you need really. Hikai is an incredibly flexible pa. The whip covers any situation hikai isn't great in.
I don't really know how they can fix that balance without making WT overpowered. Can't imagine them gimping a class in this game either.

Beast are technically the strongest WT if your looking at it from a pure effectiveness standpoint, basically because the only tech you'll ever need is megid and thats only for its se.
And having a nanoblast is incredibly useful on WT due to the lack of any big weapons like an axe or a grenade launcher or doublesabers for the nastier mobs.
I found Human and Newman more fun to play though basically because you have more of an excuse to throw around a few nukes. Beast WT just end up feeling like a really weak fF with a longbow and resta.

[Genoa]

On 2008-05-06 12:02, mll wrote:
Beast WT just end up feeling like a really weak fF with a longbow and resta.

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-05-06 10:35, MegamanX wrote:
Well, I did state that I wasn't saying beast WT couldn't be done. I'm just saying that a Beast would be more efficient as ANY other fighter type overall. The variety that you gain as a WT simply depreciates an entire aspect of the WT's potential (the Attack techs) and it's slightly more difficult to hit enemies often compared to the other fighter classes.

I dunno. I agree a Beast is far more powerful (in melee) as FF, but WT seems custom-made for Beasts who want versatility instead of power for whatever reason.
* uses Gudda Hon still
* much bigger variety of non-melee attack options than FI or AT
* lv30 attack techs > guns (on non-gunners) for damage and accuracy, also more sparkly and fun

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-05-06 12:57 ]</font>

[Sekani]

Wartecher melee doesn't outperform acrotechers by as large a margin as I would have expected, considering the extra ten levels in skill PAs. Acrotechers also have more damage potential with attack techs both in power and speed, and also decent ranged ability via cards and twin handguns.

In all honesty I was hoping that the attack aspect of wartechers would be boosted somehow (level 40 attack techs maybe) to sort of bring the class into its own, but with the addition of level 30 support instead it just seems that the powers that be are content to leave this as a sort of gimped acrotecher that can use a couple of semi-exclusive S-ranks.

[Genoa]

Alright, before I go on and on about how I don't THINK it works well together, I will try it on my beast. She's been all sorts of classes, but yet Wartecher because of my observations statistically. I shall try it for first hand experience before I bash the idea any further.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-05-06 12:33, Sekani wrote:
Wartecher melee doesn't outperform acrotechers by as large a margin as I would have expected, considering the extra ten levels in skill PAs. Acrotechers also have more damage potential with attack techs both in power and speed, and also decent ranged ability via cards and twin handguns.

About the melee... really?
I'd have expected WT with Renzan, Tornado/Spinning Break (hello Soda Riban), Cross Hurricane, Majarra, etc to pretty much kick an Acrotecher's ass all over the place.

Acrotecher seems like a great Human job, mostly casting with enough emphasis on ATP (and a race bonus boosting the difference) that you can't call it Newman For The Win like how it is for FT.

[Sekani]

On 2008-05-06 13:06, panzer_unit wrote:
About the melee... really?
I'd have expected WT with Renzan, Tornado/Spinning Break (hello Soda Riban), Cross Hurricane, Majarra, etc to pretty much kick an Acrotecher's ass all over the place.

I never played wartecher with a lot of two-handed weapons; might as well be a fighgunner or fortefighter if I'm gonna regularly use Tornado Break or Majarra.

Seriously though, I already use all of those PAs on other characters so I opted for a different playstyle with mostly single-handed weapons as well as twin claws. On the weapons that both wartecher and acrotecher share the difference in damage is noticeable, but nothing to really brag about.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-05-06 13:35, Sekani wrote:
I never played wartecher with a lot of two-handed weapons; might as well be a fighgunner or fortefighter if I'm gonna regularly use Tornado Break or Majarra.

Seriously though, I already use all of those PAs on other characters so I opted for a different playstyle with mostly single-handed weapons as well as twin claws. On the weapons that both wartecher and acrotecher share the difference in damage is noticeable, but nothing to really brag about.

I'm not surprised you had a bad impression of WT.

It's unique in the amount of tactics and min-maxing required to make it look good, which is one of the reasons I like it now that Protranser is yet another easy-mode hybrid type. WT has a lot of equipment and skills on tap... any other job does only like 1/3 or 2/3 of what WT can do, and it's only appropriate if the advantages/disadvantages are a little disproportionate if you're only comparing jobs based on what they have in common.

Back when I bothered with alts I picked WT for that because it's really the ideal job for a second-favorite character...
It's got low skill caps making it easy to max. It's got a wide variety of abilities making it interesting to play, the lack of any real standout abilities make getting the most out of WT a bit of a min/maxing challenge.

Personally I think WT should get A-rank Rods, sort of to say "hey it's okay to focus these guys on two-handed gear unlike Acrotecher" and sort of to power-up the nuking side.

[MSAksion]

On 2008-05-05 18:00, dc534 wrote:
Yeah they are only getting it in my opinion because of the simple fact that AT would out damage them in every aspect then, both melee and tech since their buffs allow them to make up the ground as far as melee goes. I like the weapons that WT has but I think they deserve one PA over 30, every other class gets one, AT will have 50 buffs which almost destroys WT. I really think 40 skills should be the next move after 30 buffs, I mean it would really seperate WT and AT then for good. I just feel WT got the shaft once the expansion hit, AT is faster so they dont need lvl 40 techs, WT needs lvl 40 skills to make up for that extra speed AT has. I just dont understand why lvl 40 skills is not in order for WT.

completely agree 100% with you there dc534
40 Melee / 30 Gun & Traps = Figun.
40 Gun / 30 TECH & SUPPORT = GunTECH.
40 Melee / 30 TECH & SUPPORT = WarTECH <====== MUST BE DONE SOON!

The MADOOG is a WT Godsend. Now you can actually use S wands and melee with TECHS on the left hand. BUT how come WARTECHER get to use S rank TWIN CLAWS but not Single S rank Claw?

AS for being a WT - Lando Aksion is and always was a Beast WT and he loves it. With super lvl 30 TECHS and a TECH/Charge he's able to keep up with me a Newwoman Part Time Wartecher. The power of melee outshines of course since he's a beast. Just fire off a quick TECH to stop enemies then rush in with Dus Majarra or Tornado break he does.

Heck my own melee when i am a part time wartecher outshines my reduced TP on WT mode. Renzan + fuka misaki allow for pretty consistant freezing of monsters.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MSAksion on 2008-05-06 14:54 ]</font>