DpS: Twin Handguns vs Rifle

[MoorePSO]

I've heard and seen some calculations claiming that Rifles out-damage Handguns in the DpS race, so I decided to test it for myself.

For my testing, I compared what I have at hand:

• Rattlesnake 4/4 [Att.: 665] with Rising Shot 35 [Att. 185%]
• Twin Varista 5/9 [Att.: 248] with Twin Rising 33 [Att. 158%]

Method:

1. First I determined Rate of Fire (RoF ; the number of shots per minute). To do this, I counted the number of "attacks" (total volley per button press rather than actual bullets fired) I could perform in ten seconds five times with each weapon. I averaged the totals from all five trials and multiplied by 6.
2. Second I determied the Average Damage per Shot (aD/S). To do this, I tested against a neutral enemy -- SEED-Guardian (Kn), level 90 -- killing an entire spawn of four (with each gun) noting the minimum damage (excluding zeros) and maximum damage (excluding criticals) per bullet. Then I added the minimum and maximum and divided by 2. (Note: That is an average per bullet. Consequently, the average per attack for the twin handguns is approximately double the aD/S.)
3. Next, I calculated the Damage per Minute (DpM) by multiplying the RoF times the aD/S (multiplying by 2 again for the Twins).
4. Finally, I calculated the Damage per Second (DpS) by dividing the DpM by 60. (No adjustment was made for the Twins since the DpM is already adjusted.)

Considerations:

• This test does not take elemental bonuses/penalties into account.
• This test does not take misses, zeros, and criticals into account.
• Numbers are approximations.

Results:

Rattlesnake:
- RoF. = ~102 [average of 17 shots per ten seconds]
- aD/S = ~756 [min. 734; max. 778]
- DpM. = ~77,112 [756 x 60)
- DpS. = ~1,285 [DpM / 60]

Twin Varista:
- RoF. = ~78 [average of 13 shots per ten seconds]
- aD/S = ~501 [min. 494; max. 508]
- DpM. = ~78,156 [(501 x 60) x 2]
- DpS. = ~1,302 [DpM / 60]


Conclusion:

Even with almost 220 Att. less than the Rattlesnake, and a 27% lower attack modifier, my Twin Varista out-DpS's my Rattlesnake by about 1.3%. A better pair (more Att.) of Twin Hanguns would show a greater DpS gap.

So assuming that my methodology is not entirely FUBAR'd and I didn't miss any details, it seems to me that Twin Handguns are every bit as solid a weapon as Rifles in the appropropriate situations.

[Astarin]

I'll have another look at this later, but omitting elemental bonuses/penalties seems to be a rather large oversight. They can alter your damage numbers significantly.

[MoorePSO]

I thought of that, but the elemental difference is only 4% at 31+ & 41+. That 4% increase for Rifles (against opposite elements) isn't that substantial, is it?

Even taking that into consideration, Twins still appear to be on par with Rifles and, thus, "are every bit as solid a weapon ... in the appropropriate situations."


Thanks for the feedback!

[Alastor_Haven]

Pretty

Hrith will be here to obviously counter

[Gen2000]

This should be entertaining for a few days. The challenger seems strong.

[Umberger]

Only problem is that rifles are more of a utility than they are a (primary) source of damage, and twin handguns are way too situational to be good. Rifles are meant for knockdown and flying bosses/enemies if you really want. Twin handguns are good if you're facing Sen/Orcdillans, and they're charging at you, but you won't be able to knock them down with a rifle, and your shotgun would not hit with all of its bullets...there's other situations, of course...but they are few and far between.

Not to be hating on the comparison or anything, by all means I think it's pretty neat to see figures like this, good job on the numbar crunching. =p

[Golto]

Try lvl 150+ monsters, their higher dfp will make the difference even smaller because its deducted twice for twins.

[Dakkon]

Also, as you compared 35 and 33 bullets, you should keep in mind Twin Handguns bullets grow at a 1% damage modifier increase per level from 30 to 50 while Rifles growth is 2% per bullet level, broadening at 40, and even more at 50, not to mention the rifle's knock down and a factor incalculable;

Damage availability:
The time lost during the application of the DPS between the targets, a Rifle can dominate one big room nonstop while the Twin Handguns shorter range requires movement (even despite strafing constant firing) and or repositionment, this is aggravated in cases such as Mechgun VS Crossbow where it does seem the Crossbow wins on paper, but pointblanking or ensuring the three bolts to connect at range wastes time, specially when not soloing, where you don't get all the mobs' attention.

Other factors to mention influencing the DPS formula, luckily without much application in the current Rifle VS T. Handguns case, is the Damage Exceed, as when you you blast 9k HP enemies with your Shotgun that does 800x5 (4000 dmg) and you need a third shot just for 1k remaining HP, "wasting" 3000 damage stopping for 3 blast at every enemy, or every two depending on your expertise at Shotgun pointblanking, which is a must, but well, whatever, one more shot almost wasted, 33% of your time, a pretty sensitive chunk of time in some solo runs where certain Fortegunners use the Shotgun almost from start to finish. This is only noticeable in Shotties and Xbows, and to a lesser extent Twin Handguns.

[MoorePSO]

Thanks for the feedback, folks!

Also, as you compared 35 and 33 bullets, you should keep in mind Twin Handguns bullets grow at a 1% damage modifier increase per level from 30 to 50 while Rifles growth is 2% per bullet level, broadening at 40, and even more at 50...

Excellent point! Thanks!

As it stands, the variance between my two bullets (at levels 33 & 35) is 27%. However, level 50 Rising Shot has an Att. modifier of 215% while Twin Rising's is 175% (based upon data from the PSO-World item database). At level 50, the variance will be 40%, which I'm sure will make a noticeable difference.

Nevermind.

Twin Tornado +5 only has 18 more Att. than Twin Varista +5 and Hyper Viper +5 only has 1 more Att. What this tells me is that my tests are actually as about as close of a comparison as I can get (without testing Battlestopper or Guld & Milla).

Considering that the Att. modifier variance opens up to 30% at level 40, giving Rifles a slight edge, on average, and increasing beyond level 40, I am forced to conclude that Rifles, in the end (Level 40+), will, indeed, out-DpS Twin Handguns. I think the margin, however, will be small enough to warrant keeping a pair of Twins on my pallet as GM.


Thanks, everyone, for helping me hash this out, if even in my own benefit.

[biggabertha]

Ignoring accuracy or the misses that you get isn't so good I don't think.

Twin Handguns have less accuracy than Rifles and less range as well as shoot more times than a Rifle over one minute.

So in theory, Twin Handguns may work out to be stronger than Rifles but Rifles can afford to miss more often than Twin Handguns and still keep the damage on par. If Twin Handguns miss out several shots at a time, then using a Rifle seems to be better.

I think you do need to try this experiment again with Lv. 40 bullets though. Element is going to matter a lot too, the numbers are going to be pretty different when you go along with those parameters.

Nice work though. I think a lot of people use Twin Handguns on a Fortegunner just because of their looks though but that's just me. They're cool, I'll admit but I've been a Protranser for too long and after using a Longbow for so long, the fast firing rate of a Rifle's just too good to pass up on if I have access to it.