% vs ATP

[Hiero_Glyph]

quick, someone who has both of those weapons take screenies. I want to see how much difference it is. = 0

I guess you could always substitute a 8/9 grinded (473/483 Att) Blumier for the Deva-zashi as long as the % was correct. It would make for a very interesting test as I doubt an 18% element advantage is simply negated by ~180 Att.

[Arada]

Well the Blumier/Deva-Zashi remains stronger, if you use the maths.

In that case, the gap is very wide and the Rappy Tip wouldn't even beat the blumier/deva-zashi if it was neutral (still per the maths).

And I'm still not taking variance or PAs into account.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Well the Blumier/Deva-Zashi remains stronger, if you use the maths.

In that case, the gap is very wide and the Rappy Tip wouldn't even beat the blumier/deva-zashi if it was neutral (still per the maths).

And I'm still not taking variance or PAs into account.

Huh? The comparison was a 50% C-rank versus a 32% S-rank, where did you get neutral from? I noted the possible comparison and I am curious to see the in-game results. I doubt that 18% is beaten by 180 attack due to the damage multiplier and the high base ATP value. I'm still not sure what 'math' you are utilizing but I would love to see you explain your numbers (that you did not provide). In any case, let us see your math including the formula you used to calculate the damage.

[Arada]

I made a guide with all the formulas and the stats.

I'm using the formulas in that guide. Note that I should probably really work on presentation.

I have done the maths again I seems I was wrong earlier. I just don't know what happened. Strictly using the formulas again, here's the result:

============

In the exemples from the guide, I use a Male Beast (lvl 140) ForteFighter (lvl 20) with a base ATP of 2204. Eventhough ForteFighter can't use S rank Daggers, I'll just use that for my exemple 'cause I can't find the stats of a beast FighGunner.

I'll just input some exemples with the Rappy Tip 10/10 and the Deva-Zashi 10/10 with the stats above (Rappy Tip 50%, 300ATP and Deva-Zashi 32%, 479ATP). I'll do it on an random dark enemy with 220 DFP (DFP doesn't really matter anyway).

Normal attacks (PA mod = 100%):

RT: (((2204 + 300) * 1) * (1 + 0.75 * 0.5) - 220) / 5 = (2504 * 1.375 - 220) / 5 = 644.6
DZ: (((2204 + 479) * 1) * (1 + 0.75 * 0.32) - 220) / 5 = (2683 * 1.24 - 220) / 5 = 621.384

=> Rappy Tip is stronger.

I'll now use Shunbu Shuren-Zan as the dagger PA (PA mod: 200% at first combo, 400% at second combo, using a lvl 40 PA taken from the PA stat comparison on PSO-World):

Note: Yes I took the strongest of the Dagger PA, it strikes people more when the gap is even bigger

1st combo:

RT: (((2204 + 300) * 2) * (1 + 0.75 * 0.5) - 220) / 5 = (5008 * 1.375 - 220) / 5 = 1333.2
DZ: (((2204 + 479) * 2) * (1 + 0.75 * 0.32) - 220) / 5 = (5366 * 1.24 - 220) / 5 = 1286.768

2nd combo:

RT: (((2204 + 300) * 4) * (1 + 0.75 * 0.5) - 220) / 5 = (10016 * 1.375 - 220) / 5 = 2710.4
DZ: (((2204 + 479) * 4) * (1 + 0.75 * 0.32) - 220) / 5 = (10732 * 1.24 - 220) / 5 = 2617.536

So the Rappy Tip is making that much more damage.

Note that variance is still not taken into account.

==================================

And thanks to Hiero_Glyph who forced me to redo the maths and correct myself.

[Hiero_Glyph]

It should also be noted that you did not include any ATP from an arm unit or possibly armor. Both of these get added into the total ATP as well. What this will do is decrease the overall effect of the additional 179 attack of the S-rank as now both of them have a higher base ATP that will be multiplied by the elemental % as well as the PA's attack modifier.

Another note is that if the base ATP is low enough, the S-rank will deal more damage simply because its extra attack will become a larger factor as it is multipled. I'm not sure how low the total ATP value needs to be in order to accomplish this, but at lower levels (or total base ATP) the weapon's ATP becomes a much larger factor.

Nice job on the equations, I just wanted to make sure that you were running the numbers entirely before jumping to any conclusions.

[Arada]

Actually seeing the low difference (~13) on the normal attack, I think it wouldn't take that much lower base ATP to have the Deva-Zashi deal higher damage (and I'm talking about the normal attack only).

I believe that if I take a Beast FighGunner with the same levels, I would get a different result (but if you add a Lumirus/Kaos Knight in there it might shift again).

Anyway, you're basically right, at lower levels, the S rank would make higher damage.

[Zael]

Here's an excerpt from a guide I once wrote.

First of all, "base damage" means the damage calculate before enemy's DFP modifies the actual damage taken. Enemy DFP reduces your damage by their DFP/5. Also, base damage assumes your weapon hits for the highest possible damage in it's variable ATP range.

Okay, first you take your character's base ATP and add it to your weapon's ATP and add them up.

For example, I'll use a Female Cast Fortefighter and a Muktrand.

Female Cast FF 130/20 ATP: 1798
Muktrand ATP: 676

Total ATP (game calls it ATT) = 2474

Damage is equal to total ATP / 5. So that means a single hit from a neutral Muktrand would hit for 495 damage to an enemy with 0 DFP.

Now let's throw in percents. The actual percent modifier is the percent shown on the weapon, multiplied by 3/4.
This is proven in my video here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=R6Txz7Z0X38
(The formulas are on the video description on the actual youtube site)

So you take the percent and multiply it by .75 to get the modifier. The modifier applies to your Total ATP, not just the weapon's ATP. That means your character's ATP is also taken into account.

Let's assume the same scenario as above, but that spear is 50% vs. an enemy weak to it.

Total ATP w/ Neutral Spear = 2474
50% * .75 = .375 (50% weapon is actually 37.5%)
2474 * 1.375 = 3402 Total ATP of 50% Muktrand vs. opposite element.