Casual use of Over End is bad...

[RRyuugu]

Down time refers to a period in time when the player is not dealing damage.

PA Downtime only occurs when the player is done charging and there is no enemy in range or is in a situation where he cannot release the PA. Hopefully, the reason for this is obvious. PA's having almost no downtime is because Charge Time is considered to be part of the DPS formula, so if a player is charging a PA then he's dealing damage.

Normal Attack and Heavy Attack on the other hand experience a lot of down time. Running towards the enemy means you are not attacking. That is down time. Waiting for enemies to spawn is down time because you aren't dealing damage.

As for bashing,

It is not moot for normal attacks. You need to stay in range the entire time you're spamming normal attacks.

PA's lower the risk of Bashing because the only time the enemy has a chance to bash you is when you unleash the PA. Normal/Heavy Attacks on the other hand increase the chance of getting bashed because you're always in range of the enemy.

[The_Pup]

Stop editing your posts or put the whole thing into one post in one go.

The large enemies don't get that much downtime. I can stand in front of Arks and Hildes and they would miss due to my EVA while they push me into position, thus keeping my character next to them.

Over End and normal/hard attacks are both equally near useless against bouncing/rolling Rohs. Trust me on this one.

Phobos moving backwards only adds as much travel time to normal/hard attacks as there is charge time for over end. But not enough to warrant using Over End. The difference is moot.

The 2 large enemies part in an earlier post was due to the usual encounters with 2-3 large enemies at once (ET or endstage encounters to normal stages) where I would be able to hit 2 or 3 enemies, negating or exceeding OE's poor APS against single enemies.

[RRyuugu]

Arkzeins and Hildes will not miss on a character that has Pure Power Materials. Even if the Compress PA unit were to be replaced by a Divine/Swift that will not give the player enough EVP to consistently dodge them.

Meaning your calculations are off, you're obviously considering a build that has a good amount of EVP dedicated instead of ATP.

PA's allow the player to not focus on EVP, meaning you need to readjust the formula to compensate or the ATP PA user gains in exchange for the EVP he does not need.

I don't really need to address any of the other points seeing as your formula is incorrect.

[The_Pup]

Down time refers to a period in time when the player is not dealing damage.

PA Downtime only occurs when the player is done charging and there is no enemy in range or is in a situation where he cannot release the PA. Hopefully, the reason for this is obvious. PA's having almost no downtime is because Charge Time is considered to be part of the DPS formula, so if a player is charging a PA then he's dealing damage.

Normal Attack and Heavy Attack on the other hand experience a lot of down time. Running towards the enemy means you are not attacking. That is down time. Waiting for enemies to spawn is down time because you aren't dealing damage.

I know what you mean by downtime. But look how the game was designed: Most rooms aren't that big and enemies in some seemingly large rooms spawn next to the player, negating most downtime for normal/hard attacks. Alot of downtime would be from Fingers, but they would be out of OE's attack range in open areas and would get stuck on walls, which really doesn't do much for downtime. Reyburn is probably the only practical application of downtime, however he's predictable so you could just plant your player in one spot instead of trying to chase him down with PA when he hops around the map shooting fireballs.

As for bashing,

It is not moot for normal attacks. You need to stay in range the entire time you're spamming normal attacks.

PA's lower the risk of Bashing because the only time the enemy has a chance to bash you is when you unleash the PA. Normal/Heavy Attacks on the other hand increase the chance of getting bashed because you're always in range of the enemy.

Do you know you can avoid most enemy attacks by standing behind them or to their side?

[RRyuugu]

No, rooms are actually huge if compared to the effective range of a Sword swipe. That's not even considering rooms with bends (which are common enough) or "bridges" (again common enough)

Do you know you can avoid most enemy attacks by standing behind them or to their side?

Enemies will turn towards you. And the time it takes to initially move to the side or behind them is part of Normal Attack down time. PA's do not have that down time. Unless you're making another faulty assumption that enemies will spawn in a way that they'll be always facing away from you.

So far you've have not even given a reasonable scenario in this game .

[The_Pup]

Arkzeins and Hildes will not miss on a character that has Pure Power Materials. Even if the Compress PA unit were to be replaced by a Divine/Swift that will not give the player enough EVP to consistently dodge them.

Meaning your calculations are off, you're obviously considering a build that has a good amount of EVP dedicated instead of ATP.

PA's allow the player to not focus on EVP, meaning you need to readjust the formula to compensate or the ATP PA user gains in exchange for the EVP he does not need.

I don't really need to address any of the other points seeing as your formula is incorrect.

I use a full ATP build and they miss enough to not kill me (and Arks who run into walls spamming their mine attack... I can stand right behind them between the mine dispensers and not be hit). Also, EVP is irrelevant to the formulas as the guide assumes the player can avoid damage/death using any method (EVA, Invincibility, knowlege of enemy patterns) while still keeping up an attack.

[The_Pup]

No, rooms are actually huge if compared to the effective range of a Sword swipe. That's not even considering rooms with bends (which are common enough) or "bridges" (again common enough)



Enemies will turn towards you. And the time it takes to initially move to the side or behind them is part of Normal Attack down time. PA's do not have that down time. Unless you're making another faulty assumption that enemies will spawn in a way that they'll be always facing away from you.

So far you've have not even given a reasonable scenario in this game .

Start using common sense. If you're a troll, you are failing.

Enemies will turn towards aggressors. You can use NPCs and other players. Sometimes enemies don't turn at all (Pythons), turn slowly (alot of enemies, sans most robots) or will turn but have alternatives to turning (Ark minelaying). Enemies can be stun locked with normal/hard attacks which keeps faster enemies like the shrine enemies (sans phobos types) from attacking.

[RRyuugu]

A number of enemy patterns require actual dodging, meaning it will require movement, movement is downtime for Normal Attacks. It is however not downtime for PA's. You can move while charging, you cannot swing your sword while moving.

Again another mistake of your formula. Your formula makes only 1 assumption, that the person using Normal Attacks is always attacking There is no time for dodging, no time for adjusting facings, no time for running towards enemies, no time waiting for enemies to spawn, and that enemies will always spawn in range, enemies will not move around.

That is an unrealistic scenario.

PA's on the other hand do not need that scenario. Charging can be done while moving, charging allows the player to move out of range, negating the need for dodging and moving to the side or behind an enemy, charging can be down while waiting for enemies to spawn, charging can be down while the enemy is not in range, and you only need to hit the enemy once so even if the enemy moves around you only need it to be in the correct range once.

[RRyuugu]

If you wait for NPCs to draw aggro then that's down time. If you charge in ahead then enemies will consider you a prime target.

Other players? Who's to assure the Sword user that these other players are melee? Or that they're not the hit and run type with PAs? If you're grouped with gun users then you'll retain all the aggro. If you're grouped with an Over End spammer who runs away while he's charging, and even Over End spammers don't need get too close that the mob will shift aggro to them.

Stop giving unrealistic scenarios.

[johnwolf]

i side step/dodge all the time. it keeps me from getting owned by arks. also do you not need to charge after releasing it. that charge slows your APS. even if you open up with OE it's APS increase is cancelled by the charge for the second OE. so regardless if you have downtime or not the charge cancels the increase in APS. because you still lose the time of a swing in that time. opps and move in forgot about that sorry.