View Poll Results: How many max players per team should the next Phantasy Star (console) have?

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  • I think 6 players is perfect for the next Phantasy Star (console)

    4 28.57%
  • I'd like to see more than 6 players. Like a MMORPG almost

    2 14.29%
  • I'd rather have less players. Maybe 5, maybe even less

    8 57.14%
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  1. #11

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    I think 6 players max per team is fine, although I would be fine with seeing more. I would rather be able to form a party with a bunch of my friends rather and fight monsters that are redonkulously strong then be limited to say, 4 players like in PSO, and not be able to invite little Jimmy so he can possibly get that Dragon Slayer sword he's always wanted from the level we're playing.

    That said, it just really boils down to how difficult the enemies are in comparison to the players for each level range, whether or not that difficulty scales up if there are more people in the party, how well the game can handle multiple character models/animations at once without causing lag/slowdown/drop in frame rate, etc. How well Sega/Sonic Team can handle all that, well... I don't have much faith right now, but I agree that making use of the Hedgehog Engine would open up some possibilities.

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  2. #12
    Forum Otaku Genoa's Avatar
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    I agree with 6, and an attempt to make it slightly more MMO-ish (very slightly).
    A global chat system is almost a must. Imo it's one of the things that crushed PSU. I mean people always ran the same instance over and over and over because there was no way of communicating with other people to do something else unless you were their friend and you mailed them or you convinced a previous group to run something different. Having to be in the same lobby as others to talk (other than sending private messages) limits the gaming community's playability.

    So I think with something like that implemented, 6 would be great for reasons as Tetsaru mentioned. Four is pretty limited as far as playing with friends goes... I always had that problem in PSO... someone usually had to sit it out :/

    However I see the issue that Kent is also arguing, having to keep the game solo-able in single-player yet still creating a challenge to group.
    Yet four seems to limit how much each participant can uniquely provide to the party.
    I always felt like each class should have been more diverse from it's similar types.
    For example, some very specific multi-player instances could require extremely unique abilities that only specific classes could deliver, almost requiring you to need to set up a party in a specific class-build. With enough given instances you would basically be required to switch up party members with specific builds instead of being able to plow through anything and bragging on the forum, "FOnewm is the greatest force, no need for anyone else. Can nuke, heal, and even melee through anything" or "You don't NEED a hunter, can just have a RAcast go in there and blast ass".
    It's a little disappointing when you can just have a party of four rangers and take on anything.
    More diversity required would better suit the need for six players AND make it more open to invite more friends if available.

    At the same time, there can be levels/instances that limit how many people you can enter. Perhaps create some that you can only have four, three, five, or even solo levels.
    That was another issue I had (more PSU than PSO) a lack of content. It was very repetitive. If there were more levels/instances with more (and different) goals, it would definitely make things more interesting.
    A fluctuating character limit cap for different levels/instances would require a group to set-up a specific way and strategize accordingly.

    So technically, I guess I'm voting 6 as the CAP...

  3. #13
    THE POWER IS YOURS!!! CaptainPlanet's Avatar
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    In the past two Phantasy Star console games, it seems that single player story mode has taken a back seat to online play, and I'm perfectly fine with that. I say, take it one step further. MMORPG all the way! As with other MMO's, there is MUCH potential for world (or system, in this case) of rich story and gameplay. Also, you need to have a good character creation engine. I would personally love to see one as complex at that found in City of Heroes. Speaking of that game, if there were one more page I would like to see a Phantasy Star MMO take from Cryptic, it's a high level of customization. I become quickly addicted to customization! It leads to players creating even more unique characters.

    Also, if you're going to make an MMO about an entire solar system, I would like to see mapped-out individual worlds. Each world doesn't necessarily have to be as expansive as the world of Azeroth for me to be satisfied with the exploration quality, but close would be nice. It really boils down to how many planets are in the system (which is usually three). Last time I played World of Warcraft (it's been a while), there were at least two fully-mapped "worlds," Azeroth and beyond the Dark Portal (I don't know the name of that world), so it's definitely feasible. Space travel from planet to planet would be kind of a given in this case.

    I liked the fact that you had your own room in the GUARDIANS Barracks. It gave you your own little corner of the gamespace and I support this movement. Sadly though, every online game (mostly MMO's) I've played with a "home" feature provided a place for your character to live, though it was entirely separate from the rest of the world. You would disappear at a door or something that everyone uses to access their homes that exist in their own individual "universes." I would like Phantasy Star to be the first to revolutionize this aspect with the character having a home that is actually present within the world. One that you can walk into from the game space without using some universal "gate" to enter its own instance. It would make it feel like that little place on the map is yours, you know? Hell, even your own specifically designated door in an apartment building would be an improvement to feeling like your home has its own individuality.

    It would also be nice if Phantasy Star became the first successful console-based MMORPG! Many have tried to make console MMO's, but were cut short on the business end of things (Microsoft wanting too much of the cut of the monthly subscription fees, I assume, or some other nonsense). Star Trek Online came close to having a console iteration, and I was stoked, because I actually played that game at the time, but alas, it too fell short and was put on an indefinite hold. Phantasy Star already has its foot in the door. To my knowledge, it is the only XBox 360 game that has its own monthly subscription fee that must be paid in tandem with the monthly XBox Live fee. All they need is a little push and they could be the first successful MMO on the console! If not, I would be satisfied with a PC MMO iteration.

    In the current online gamespace, I feel as if Phantasy Star realms are a bit cramped in comparison. I would really like to see Phantasy Star branch out and become the next big MMO.
    Last edited by CaptainPlanet; Dec 3, 2010 at 06:16 PM.

  4. #14

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    The problem with trying to force Phantasy Star into being an MMO is that the action-oriented gameplay of the series would have to really be sacrificed to make that jump.

    Being that the gameplay of the games is kind of what makes them special in the first place (and that's before we get into things like art style, music, etc.), would transforming it into an MMO at the sacrifice of its gameplay be worth it? I sincerely doubt it.

    Besides, in a modern world where everyone and their grandmother has an MMO out on the market, there's a lot more to be said for a game being specifically not massively-multiplayer, but still being an online multiplayer RPG.

    ProTip: To damage your credibility, simply call any of the Phantasy Star games "massively-multiplayer."

  5. #15
    THE POWER IS YOURS!!! CaptainPlanet's Avatar
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    I don't see why they would have to follow the gameplay style of every other MMO in order to be an MMO. I don't see how open world RPG with many players requires the same boring "run up to the enemy and enter commands until it's dead" format. I'm sure they could easily build a world and transfer PSU gameplay controls over to it, and then build on the gameplay to make it a step up from PSU. I'm sure they could pull it off.

    Action-based console MMORPG FTW!
    Last edited by CaptainPlanet; Dec 4, 2010 at 07:13 PM.

  6. #16
    RAcast v2.03 amtalx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    I don't see why they would have to follow the gameplay style of every other MMO in order to be an MMO. I don't see how open world RPG with many players requires the same boring "run up to the enemy and enter commands until it's dead" format. I'm sure they could easily build a world and transfer PSU gameplay controls over to it, and then build on the gameplay to make it a step up from PSU. I'm sure they could pull it off.

    Action-based console MMORPG FTW!
    Lag.

    There's a reason there has never been a successful real-time action MMO. In order for a game to faithfully carry the 'MMO' banner, it needs to be a persistent world. It's a monumental networking task to get a persistent work working lag-free. Some would argue it's nearly impossible, considering that nobody has pulled it off yet. Sega certainly doesn't have the talent to make it work.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainPlanet View Post
    I don't see why they would have to follow the gameplay style of every other MMO in order to be an MMO. I don't see how open world RPG with many players requires the same boring "run up to the enemy and enter commands until it's dead" format. I'm sure they could easily build a world and transfer PSU gameplay controls over to it, and then build on the gameplay to make it a step up from PSU. I'm sure they could pull it off.

    Action-based console MMORPG FTW!
    Do you know why MMORPGs work that way in the first place?

    It's because doing so will minimize the amount of data that needs to be transferred between the server and all of its clients (the other players). In something that's massively-multiplayer, you're going to have to transmit data properly and in a timely manner between hundreds of players at once. Because of this, minimizing the impact on network demand of any given player is paramount to the game not grinding to a halt when there's more than a handful of players at any given location.

    Even if you have half a second of lag, that's not very much in a relatively slow-paced game like most MMOs are - but just imagine how much of a difference a half of a second of lag would make in a game that emphasizes twitch reactions, timing attacks properly and being able to deftly dodge enemy swings. Imagine playing any game, like God of War, Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, etc. and pressing a button on the controller, only to have that buttonpress actually register half a second later.

    It's not a fun experience. If you try playing Super Smash Bros. Brawl or Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time online, you can clearly see why this is a really bad thing (and those games aren't even MMOs - they just have horribly-inefficient netcode).

    In a game that's set up like PSO or Diablo, you can do things like manage hit detection client-side pretty easily, without any real big implications coming across - however, when you're dealing with something that's massively-multiplayer, it becomes even less efficient if you're waiting on the clients to actually process things like hit detection, send it back to the server, and the have the server verify it - you're just kind of asking for it to be exploited in some way, if you're doing that.

    So no, for the time being, an action-based MMO is really just not going to work if it's truly going to be an MMO. Maybe once FiOS is the standard internet connection for people, but even then, we still need the servers that are able to keep up with that kind of demanding network transmissions.

    ProTip: To damage your credibility, simply call any of the Phantasy Star games "massively-multiplayer."

  8. #18
    THE POWER IS YOURS!!! CaptainPlanet's Avatar
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    ... ... ...

    Well... I just got owned. :P

    Someday though... someday when everyone can afford to play on a T1 connection and companies like SEGA have more bandwidth to play with... it will be glorious.

    Go for it, Moore's Law! Do work!

  9. #19
    Trueblade 剣聖 Wayu's Avatar
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    I voted for 5 or less. More specifically, 4 players. It seems like the optimal number, making players balance out their strengths decisively and challenges to make do with the few numbers they have.

    Also, any more than 4 and my Xbox (assuming they platform it for that) will die every time all players cast Rafoie.

    -Wayu




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