Fighter Discussion

[Coatl]

What's people's opinions of daggers? When do you pop them out? What are they good at?

[Evangelion X.XX]

I pop up daggers when I'm up against highly aggressive enemies, such as the Mech Banthers in Lili UQ, when I know I need to guard (TD-Spin-Guard-Thingy). I use them for flying enemies, like those flying Helicopters in Tokyo Field, Gal McGryphon, or hard to reach weak points such as Bayari's head, Nab's UQ's Corrupted Mammoth's weak-hump, Chrome, maybe Quartz, and also, I use daggers when I need to be precise in targeting a certain parts with lock-on, such as Dio's arms' weakpoints.

Edit:

Daggers excel at handling some enemies over Double Sabers and Knuckles, they definitely have their usage.

That being said, I use Double Sabers about 80% of the time for mobbing and even bossing (with the Kamaitachi left-hand ring), I use Knuckles about 10% of the time (primarily for Backhand Smash PP dump and Orbit's PP regen), and finally Daggers about 10% of the time, for those niche usage.

[TehCubey]

Daggers are a bossing weapon. So are knuckles but they excel at dealing out burst damage when the enemy is stationary and not hitting back much. TDs are for when you need to move and defend a lot while still continuing to dish out damage.

DS against bosses is a better idea than it was before kamaitachi ring was a thing, but it's still inefficient. Also unless all you do is Acro Effect spam, it's a very poor option defensively. The only bosses I found myself using DS against are those weak to it in the Heaven and Hell XQ.

[Evangelion X.XX]

Using DS against some bosses isn't such a far-fetched idea, especially since, realistically:

1. There will always be a bunch of adds accompanying the boss in a MPA, you have the option of TAJA-ing into Chaos Riser/Hurricane Sender to help clear the field while focusing on the boss. So in a sense, you're doing two things at once: mobbing and bossing with DS.

2. Defensive options isn't limited to just Acro Effect; you also have step/step advance.

3. Illusion Rave cancel-able into step/Acro Effect for invulnerability.



That said, yes, daggers are indeed primarily a bossing weapon, most notably (as stated earlier) against hyper aggressive and/or big bosses like Chrome, Corrupted Mammoths, Bayari, Bio Meduna, etc. where their weak points are hard to reach otherwise.

DS is good at bosses that are grounded, like Decol, Spider Lady, Bal, Anga, particularly those bosses that aren't as aggressive.

[toragyo]

Using DS against some bosses isn't such a far-fetched idea, especially since, realistically:

1. There will always be a bunch of adds accompanying the boss in a MPA, you have the option of TAJA-ing into Chaos Riser/Hurricane Sender to help clear the field while focusing on the boss. So in a sense, you're doing two things at once: mobbing and bossing with DS.

2. Defensive options isn't limited to just Acro Effect; you also have step/step advance.

3. Illusion Rave cancel-able into step/Acro Effect for invulnerability.

It definitely isn't a bad idea but it's still incredibly better to use Knuckle and Twin Dagger most of the time. You'd still outdamage or do similar amounts of damage than other melee weapons in certain situations (DB PBF spam on downtime, high damaging Volg combos, S-Atk BR/HU Banish+Kamikaze etc.) with Double Saber because of FI's incredibly high modifiers.

1. Is the main strength of Double Saber on bosses, no other melee weapon can compare.

2+3. Step cancels Tech Art and the new Kamaitachi ring which is a huge deal, especially for Illusion Rave. Not only would you be losing the 2nd Kamaitachi activation, you would also be losing the strong last hit which is 30% of Illusion Rave's damage. Double Saber's only defensive option is Acro Effect (and Wind Parrying for emergencies but it's a DPS loss now with the new ring since it'll probably be overwriting one of your already active Kamaitachis). Tanking hits with Massive Hunter isn't feasible a lot of the time because it has downtime and some bosses hit like a truck (changeover ones).

It's silly to call Step a defensive option for Double Saber when Knuckle and Twin Dagger can both avoid enemy attacks very easily while still doing damage and do so while keeping Tech Arts active. The damage that Kamaitachi would do during a Step is very small compared to what those other 2 can do.

[Evangelion X.XX]

I get what you're trying to say, and it's true that you lose TAJA during step, and I get that you're trying to say DS's ONLY defensive option is Acro Effect in the sense of losing damage, etc. (But step is still a defensive option nonetheless, which I don't think anyone can deny).

But in general terms of MPA efficiency, I think it's best to help clear the field, especially if there's a clusterfuck of enemies, while bossing at the same time, since it gives others breathing room so they can focus on the boss without worrying about dying, or enemies obstructing their chain/banish/etc. which serves to expedite the whole process: you help out your MPA, they will help you.

But really, I think it all comes down to discretion, depending on the situation; it's not just use daggers/ds/knuckles only for bossing. Like for example, if you're solo-ing a boss with no adds, then you can use knuckles/daggers to be efficient. But if there are adds, then you have to ask yourself, "With the given amount and type of adds, is it more efficient to take care of the mobs first and then go for the boss, is it more efficient to just go directly for the boss and ignore the mobs, or should I try to mob and boss at the same time?" And also, you can use DS to mob and boss until the field is clear, and then switch over to knuckles/daggers. So you see what I'm trying to say? The picture isn't exactly black or white.

[FireswordRus]

just for fun
More HP for GOD of HP

Spoiler!

[Naska]

^ True, but with that much HP, your s-atk plummeted though.
You already have 2k def and 14% resist. You don't even need any higher than 2k hp as you have 500 hp during LB, enough for Automate usage.

[FireswordRus]

that quastion was many, many pages ago
Can Tank build be with good damage?
yes, always can, if you are playing as fi

i am can change ship to play with players, what kinda a best

only knuckles can beat me on boses. they are stronger +0.3% - 10%

[Rasengan_q]

Don't know what fantasy world you're living in where you think FI can even compete with the likes of Chain, Banish and Compounds.

Torim and Maron can both one shot bosses as SU/GU (and do over 10m damage in one hit) but it's somewhat hard to pull off which is why I wrote it as a special case. Even without Chain, they both can do near or above 3m.

Show me FI killing Luther in under 30s or killing Anga at the 2nd phase as soon as the hitbox becomes active. What about 20m damage in one Banish combo as BR/GU? FO/GU Barantsion doing over 7m damage or even regular Barantsion doing over 2m normally for ZERO PP?

PSO2 is entirely about burst damage and speed at this point. The only thing that fits that criteria for FI is Backhand but that costs 40PP, if you have to use it more than what you have for PP, then it is worse off than what those other classes can do.

All of this post is with WB.

All of that using luther only as a test? show me all that class that can do all of that kind of dmg in regular EQ bosses and all other Boss EQ. Highest dmg is all for nothing if you can't do it constantly in every situation. You see... some people said FIHU is 1 of the best dmg dealer cause they are flexible in any kind situation. FIHU doesn't need preperation/setup to do high damage. All they have to do is press LB button and wreck shit, hell even without LB FIHU still can give high dmg.

In the class youre mentioned, the only 1 class i admit to be OP is FO/GU. BR/GU at best only good for stationary enemies. If you claim all that classes are OP for bosses then try fight PD at hell and heaven XQ and see if you can do that kind of dmg again with BR/GU or SU/GU