Gunner Stuff Discussion ™

[Zipzo]

Mods completely ruin MMO's and make them play itself for you or give everyone using them a huge advantage forcing you to use them. UI's should be completely customizable though(only the looks).

Yeah...no they don't. I knew plenty of folks who played at the same level I did in all areas of the game without using mods. I used mods purely for aesthetic desire and to bring my interface to a functionality that the default UI lacked.

You could make the argument that mods are a crutch for some things occasionally, but a "huge advantage"? Not a chance. Mods are there to fill a gap in the overall efficiency of the UI, not to tack on some majorly cheap advantage. Things that the default UI should have anyway.

If you're referring to deadly boss mods...well then I have nothing more to say. It only screams at you what the game already does anyway. A mod isn't going to make you move out of fire. Only your fingers can do that.

If anything mods saved MMOs...especially WoW. Mods are probably one of a variety of factors in to why that game remains popular (and not to mention why Rift is doing well too).

[Shiyo]

Yeah...no they don't. I knew plenty of folks who played at the same level I did in all areas of the game without using mods. I used mods purely for aesthetic desire and to bring my interface to a functionality that the default UI lacked.

You could make the argument that mods are a crutch for some things occasionally, but a "huge advantage"? Not a chance. Mods are there to fill a gap in the overall efficiency of the UI, not to tack on some majorly cheap advantage. Things that the default UI should have anyway.

If you're referring to deadly boss mods...well then I have nothing more to say. It only screams at you what the game already does anyway. A mod isn't going to make you move out of fire. Only your fingers can do that.

If anything mods saved MMOs...especially WoW. Mods are probably one of a variety of factors in to why that game remains popular (and not to mention why Rift is doing well too).

Nah, there was mods in WOW that told you what classes you were up against in arenas before the gates opened and showed when their PVP trinket was on cooldown. There was also a mod that showed when someones interrupt was on cooldown, and when it's cooldown was over, so you could easily know when to cast freely without worry of being interrupted That's hugely game breaking and a gigantic advantage over someone not using them. They had to add the "show classes before arena gates open" to the default game, but I don't think the PVP trinket thing was added, and the interrupt tracker 100% wasn't. Last two things still give you an advantage in PVP by having them, basically requiring them to play competitively, and all three still exist, just first one is default in the UI now.

Most of the UI changes from expansion to expansion, like focus frames(completely game changing in pvp to use focus frames), cast bars(completely game changing to have), etc weren't part of the default UI at first and were mods only. Being able to see someones cast bar, and being able to focus frame someone to see their cast bar was a huge advantage you only had with mods. These two aren't advantages anymore, since they were default added to the games UI, but they were for years before they were added to the core of the game, and my first paragraph are all game breaking advantages in PVP.

edit: Oh, and when arenas first came out basically everyone used the arena unit frame mod, which is now default, and it showed enemy players names, allowed you to macro spells to target enemy players easily without having to manually target them, showed all of their cast bars, and showed when their PVP trinket was on cooldown. All default in the game now except not sure about the PVP trinket on cooldown part. Players without the mod couldn't see everyones cast bars and had to manually target players then cast spells/attack. Huge advantage.

Pretty much 60%+ of WOW's ui and interface was designed by other players then added to the game expansions later, because they were required and too needed/good.

edit2: Oh yeah, there was also an inspect enemy player mod that had to get removed from the game, and hasn't been usable since early vanilla. Being able to see someones stats/weapons was a giant advantage in PVP to a competent player.

[gigawuts]

Yeah er, that's because they designed the system horribly. Your client has no business having access to information like that, a proper mod system would not allow things like that.

[UnLucky]

Well, updated player databases can be accessed in-game via mods, so you could definitely see who you're up against or partying with and exactly what kind of equipment they are using, but that's only faster (and automatic) than doing it yourself using publicly available tools.

Mods that give you access to information that is otherwise impossible is definitely a game changer and is obviously imba in PVP. A ton of these kind of mods existed for raid content and while it did make it easier if everyone had them installed, they were by no means necessary nor "played the game for you."

[strikerhunter]

PSO2 Gunner Stuff Discussion ™

Stick to the topic people.

[hoangsea]

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...dBk7JIHnHX0006

this is my build with R-atk related class
GU/RA
GU/HU
RA/HU
BR/RA

is this build goes wrong on something ?

[Shiyo]

Builds perfectly fine, you can swap out PP restore for more RATTk if you want.

[Zipzo]

Nah, there was mods in WOW that told you what classes you were up against in arenas before the gates opened and showed when their PVP trinket was on cooldown. There was also a mod that showed when someones interrupt was on cooldown, and when it's cooldown was over, so you could easily know when to cast freely without worry of being interrupted That's hugely game breaking and a gigantic advantage over someone not using them. They had to add the "show classes before arena gates open" to the default game, but I don't think the PVP trinket thing was added, and the interrupt tracker 100% wasn't. Last two things still give you an advantage in PVP by having them, basically requiring them to play competitively, and all three still exist, just first one is default in the UI now.

Most of the UI changes from expansion to expansion, like focus frames(completely game changing in pvp to use focus frames), cast bars(completely game changing to have), etc weren't part of the default UI at first and were mods only. Being able to see someones cast bar, and being able to focus frame someone to see their cast bar was a huge advantage you only had with mods. These two aren't advantages anymore, since they were default added to the games UI, but they were for years before they were added to the core of the game, and my first paragraph are all game breaking advantages in PVP.

edit: Oh, and when arenas first came out basically everyone used the arena unit frame mod, which is now default, and it showed enemy players names, allowed you to macro spells to target enemy players easily without having to manually target them, showed all of their cast bars, and showed when their PVP trinket was on cooldown. All default in the game now except not sure about the PVP trinket on cooldown part. Players without the mod couldn't see everyones cast bars and had to manually target players then cast spells/attack. Huge advantage.

Pretty much 60%+ of WOW's ui and interface was designed by other players then added to the game expansions later, because they were required and too needed/good.

edit2: Oh yeah, there was also an inspect enemy player mod that had to get removed from the game, and hasn't been usable since early vanilla. Being able to see someones stats/weapons was a giant advantage in PVP to a competent player.

And yet none of the things you mentioned "ruined" the game, but instead made it not only more functional but better overall. So much so Blizzard addded some of them in as default features. How is that not indicative of them submitting that their own UI needs compensation? There has occasionally been steps over the line (like that one addon that put colored bubbles everywhere on the actual environment in raids, forgot its name), and Blizzard has done well to keep those types of things in check by breaking them as soon as they're found out. That's just the consequences of having such a flexible interface system, occasionally people get smart and try to push their luck. I'd rather have that than yellow tape on every single odd and end.

Just as Unlucky stated, it's all information that's available to you without mods, the mods just make it clear and easy. Interrupt bar simply works by showing you an exact time frame of cooldowns that you should already be aware of as a PvPer (and many players were already keenly aware of said cooldowns before that addon released). Gladius did show you trinket timers, but all it did was cache when a player used their trinket, then count down its cool down timer. These are all things you can do in your own head. The best PvPers "feel" that stuff, they don't even need thousands of bars and numbers flying across the screen telling them what's going on, because we already know. I landed top 10 in my Battlegroup several times in a row. See the Wrathful Glad tabard up there? I'm not talking out of my ass.

None of the things you mentioned are game breaking, nor did anyone ever (noobs and pros alike) complain that these features were game breaking within the actual WoW community. What it is however is a good telling of your lack of personal skill and/or experience in WoW PvP to which I can't say I'm very surprised.

So yeah...Gunners...

[Shiyo]

You really don't think seeing when someones PVP trinket is on cooldown, how long until it's off cooldown, or seeing when someones interrupts are on GCD or how long until they are off cooldown gives a gigantic PVP advantage? I knew you'd bring up "B-b-buh YOU CAN KEEP TRACK OF ALL THAT SHIT IN YOUR MIND!". Too bad you don't have to, be ause a mod does it for you, thus giving you an advantage you normally wouldn't have and on equal skill to someone better than you just because you can download and install mods(move to a folder, so hard).

None of the things you mentioned are game breaking, nor did anyone ever (noobs and pros alike) complain that these features were game breaking within the actual WoW community. What it is however is a good telling of your lack of personal skill and/or experience in WoW PvP to which I can't say I'm very surprise

Also, my character
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Raenko/simple
Highest 5 man personal rating 2,164
Highest 3 man personal rating 2,607
Highest 2 man personal rating 2,532

[laxmunch]

And yet none of the things you mentioned "ruined" the game, but instead made it not only more functional but better overall. So much so Blizzard addded some of them in as default features. How is that not indicative of them submitting that their own UI needs compensation? There has occasionally been steps over the line (like that one addon that put colored bubbles everywhere on the actual environment in raids, forgot its name), and Blizzard has done well to keep those types of things in check by breaking them as soon as they're found out. That's just the consequences of having such a flexible interface system, occasionally people get smart and try to push their luck. I'd rather have that than yellow tape on every single odd and end.

Just as Unlucky stated, it's all information that's available to you without mods, the mods just make it clear and easy. Interrupt bar simply works by showing you an exact time frame of cooldowns that you should already be aware of as a PvPer (and many players were already keenly aware of said cooldowns before that addon released). Gladius did show you trinket timers, but all it did was cache when a player used their trinket, then count down its cool down timer. These are all things you can do in your own head. The best PvPers "feel" that stuff, they don't even need thousands of bars and numbers flying across the screen telling them what's going on, because we already know. I landed top 10 in my Battlegroup several times in a row. See the Wrathful Glad tabard up there? I'm not talking out of my ass.

None of the things you mentioned are game breaking, nor did anyone ever (noobs and pros alike) complain that these features were game breaking within the actual WoW community. What it is however is a good telling of your lack of personal skill and/or experience in WoW PvP to which I can't say I'm very surprised.

So yeah...Gunners...

You really don't think seeing when someones PVP trinket is on cooldown, how long until it's off cooldown, or seeing when someones interrupts are on GCD or how long until they are off cooldown gives a gigantic PVP advantage? I knew you'd bring up "B-b-buh YOU CAN KEEP TRACK OF ALL THAT SHIT IN YOUR MIND!". Too bad you don't have to, be cause a mod does it for you, thus giving you an advantage you normally wouldn't have and on equal skill to someone better than you just because you can download and install mods(move to a folder, so hard).

Also, my character
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Raenko/simple
Highest 5 man personal rating 2,164
Highest 3 man personal rating 2,607
Highest 2 man personal rating 2,532

geez guys, GTFO of this thread.