Gunner Stuff Discussion ™

[merchat7]

For people playing Gu/Ra, when do you use Infinite Fire Type Zero? It seems a lot of people like it so far, but I'm not seeing a lot of situation to use it (over Sat Aim)?

The DPS of both seems very similar so far, with the exception that IF-zero requires another PA to set up it (unless you want to use it uncharged? Is there a situation where you even want to do so?).

For chain finishing, it seems Sat Aim is still superior (I've always gotten 8 hits from Sat Aim during chain).

The burst bit of IF-zero seems to have decent aoe though, maybe it's good for a pack of zondeeled goldrahdas?

I guess the main point of this custom PA is just to add variety? Not really to fit any niche that is not covered by the other PAs?

[Shadowstarkirby]

For people playing Gu/Ra, when do you use Infinite Fire Type Zero? It seems a lot of people like it so far, but I'm not seeing a lot of situation to use it (over Sat Aim)?

The DPS of both seems very similar so far, with the exception that IF-zero requires another PA to set up it (unless you want to use it uncharged? Is there a situation where you even want to do so?).

For chain finishing, it seems Sat Aim is still superior (I've always gotten 8 hits from Sat Aim during chain).

The burst bit of IF-zero seems to have decent aoe though, maybe it's good for a pack of zondeeled goldrahdas?

I guess the main point of this custom PA is just to add variety? Not really to fit any niche that is not covered by the other PAs?

I feel the same way honestly, it's a bigger AoE and does more damage, but without TMG Arts Charge, it's got nothing on Satellite Aim's cheap cost and speed. You don't have to fiddle with cycling between PAs to make use of Satellite Aim neither. I'm going to play with it on my Gu/Ra for a while, but so far it's not doing anything for me that other PA's haven't done for me before. Dead Approach > Satellite Aim > Infinity Fire sounds like it'd ideal for Gu/Fi if that's even a thing.

[Shinamori]

I have a palette setup like this: Dead Approach/Grim Barrage > Infinity Fire > Satellite Aim

[Seijass]

I'll just go with quick switch and put it whereever outside of my current spam palettes really. Most likely replace Squall-0 atm since I don't use it as much anymore.

Spoiler!

[CelestialBlade]

I dunno, Infinite Fire Type-0 did help me set a new damage record...



It takes some good fortune to get super-good damage out of it, but the ceiling is insanely high. I did this on one of Dark Falz Double's orbs. My setup is Dead Approach -> Sat Aim -> IF Type-0.

(I'm not even remotely well-affixed and I don't have Austere or anything, I'd love to see what this PA could do in the right hands)

[final_attack]

I dunno, Infinite Fire Type-0 did help me set a new damage record...

It takes some good fortune to get super-good damage out of it, but the ceiling is insanely high. I did this on one of Dark Falz Double's orbs. My setup is Dead Approach -> Sat Aim -> IF Type-0.

As far as I know, better using GrimBarrage - SatAim - IFType0 ......SatAim on 1st JA circle on GrimBarrage if you're under ChainFinish (2nd JA won't make IF0's burst hit under CF) ....
Since DA -> SatAim -> IF0 didn't proc StandingSnipe on IF .... based on my experience though.

Edit : Sorry, unless you're not GuRa ........ how thoughtless of me

I'll just go with quick switch and put it whereever outside of my current spam palettes really. Most likely replace Squall-0 atm since I don't use it as much anymore.

At least you're still looks like a Gu

Spoiler!

[CelestialBlade]

As far as I know, better using GrimBarrage - SatAim - IFType0 ......SatAim on 1st JA circle on GrimBarrage if you're under ChainFinish (2nd JA won't make IF0's burst hit under CF) ....
Since DA -> SatAim -> IF0 didn't proc StandingSnipe on IF .... based on my experience though.

Edit : Sorry, unless you're not GuRa ........ how thoughtless of me

No worries; I actually flip-flop between GU/RA and GU/HU these days, depends on if I'm trying to solo something where I need more survivability because I'm loaded with Flash Guard and Massive Hunter and such on my HU sub. I achieved that number as GU/RA though and wasn't sure if Standing Snipe was kicking in or not, so I'll give the setup you suggested a shot too. I'm far from being any sort of min/maxer so I'm really surprised I achieved damage anywhere near that, which speaks to the incredibly high ceiling of IF Type-0 under the right circumstances I think.

[merchat7]

Trying Infinite Type Zero some more, I'm definitely finding some use for it in mobbing, but using it for bossing is a dps loss imo.

For example, if you ever wanted a high power attack from the ground e.g. heel stab > IF0 vs jump (+s-roll) Sat Aim

Similarly, it is nice if you want big damage to the mobs in front of you after shift period (I think the aoe will help make it better than using Sat Aim for mobbing, but you will lose standing snipe if you decide to continue spamming shift period).

Also double checking swiki, they listed the power notations for IF0 now.
1448 (362 x 4) - 2 Sat Aim
1348.44 (0.02 + 0.50) * 2359 - IF0, kick + finish only, max power craft

From the numbers, Sat Aim is 8% stronger, and it matched the numbers from final_attack's video perfectly.

I've tried seeing whether 2 SA = 1 IF0 by finishing chain with SA > IF0 > SA and for me, the last hit of Sat Aim was always outside the chain window. So from this, I think IF0 is slower than pure Sat Aim, in term of spamming.

So for both Gu/Ra and Gu/Hu, I think Sat Aim (or dead approach for Gu/Hu) spam is the best for single-target dps. Gu/Fi, switching between the two is better.

[Selphea]

GuHu has been about Dead Approach spam for a while now

When you tried SA IF0 SA, did you do a frame by frame breakdown to see if your JAs were tight? SA IF0 SA should be able to fully hit. Just that IF0 has a tricky JA window that I haven't been able to get down myself.

But allow me to illustrate why IF0's problem isn't DPS but denomination:



In this Chain I do Dead Approach - Infinite Fire Type-0 - Aerial Shooting.

Dead Approach + Aerial Shooting is 112 frames. That leaves about 88 frames of Chain Trigger in between.

Can I do one Sat Aim with those 88 frames? Yes with 38 frames left. Two? Definitely not. But 88F is enough for IF0 with just a teeny tiny bit of change.

So it's about finding situations where a Gu has 80ish frames to spare for IF0 to take advantage of its slightly higher DPS.

[merchat7]

When you tried SA IF0 SA, did you do a frame by frame breakdown to see if your JAs were tight? SA IF0 SA should be able to fully hit. Just that IF0 has a tricky JA window that I haven't been able to get down myself.

I didn't do a frame by frame breakthrough, unfortunately. I just wanted to see if if-zero is noticeably faster than 2x sat aim or not.

What I thought happened was that while if-zero executes its damage fast enough, the ja circle doesn't appear as fast as sat aim meaning it is slower while spamming, but it might just be that I am not timing it properly.

If someone did a frame by frame by breakthrough, I would be interested how many frames (or % faster) if-zero may be against sat aim. If-zero does has pp efficiency going for it after all (depending on craft).