Gunner Stuff Discussion ™

[Will_2_Power]

^Alright, thanks man.

So I guess pretty much something like this:

https://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skil...008dBIb0000008

And for the rest of the points on Fi side, I guess I'll just HP Ups..? Because I see no point in getting Wise Stance...

[Dephinix]

Uhh... Final Attack's build includes S JA Roll Bonus, and now more than ever, it stands out. Keep that for any new content, at the least. This isn't 2016. Gunner tree is basic build aside from your 5 points in PP Restorate rather than a flat 5% bonus. As a Gu main, you DON'T need the PP Restorate. As for Chase Advance, imo, get enough to max out plus. Chase Advance Plus applies to all damage, more often it will get used. I threw extra points into S ATK Ups for the shoulder rush PA. I don't see Wise Stance being ground breaking, so I didn't grab it, but it definitely has its uses.

My skill tree after watching Final Attack so long:
https://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skil...008dBIb0000008

Edit After Kril: 10% damage on next PA is much better than 50% pp restore end game. Once you're 85/xx it won't matter, especially with fi sub for gunner. Don't forget that you should be utilizing pp slayer anyways, and while 50% extra can help, as a Gu/Fi, don't take a hit. Unless you have like, 1800 hp, but at that point, Gu/Hu was your better choice.

[Will_2_Power]

^True, as GuFi you should avoid getting hit at all costs since it aint Massive-Automate GuHu.

And also, yeah, I'll just skip over Attack PP Restorate... (and in addition to what you said about Gu not needing it in the first place and PP Slayer, there's TAJAPP Save on Fi side anyway) so like what you've said, I'll just toss those points into S-Roll JA Bonus, that makes sense.

And for Fi side, I'll just throw in some points in the Striking Ups (for mainly Dead Approach-Shoulder-Stun-PA, Arial Shooting)... because there's no where else to SP dump anyway, and I'll think about what I want to do with the Chase Skills, I'll figure it out.

I appreciate the critique guys, it really cleared up some stuff for me.

Thanks.

[ArcaneTechs]

Uhh... Final Attack's build includes S JA Roll Bonus, and now more than ever, it stands out. Keep that for any new content, at the least. This isn't 2016. Gunner tree is basic build aside from your 5 points in PP Restorate rather than a flat 5% bonus. As a Gu main, you DON'T need the PP Restorate. As for Chase Advance, imo, get enough to max out plus. Chase Advance Plus applies to all damage, more often it will get used. I threw extra points into S ATK Ups for the shoulder rush PA. I don't see Wise Stance being ground breaking, so I didn't grab it, but it definitely has its uses.

My skill tree after watching Final Attack so long:
https://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skil...008dBIb0000008

Edit After Kril: 10% damage on next PA is much better than 50% pp restore end game. Once you're 85/xx it won't matter, especially with fi sub for gunner. Don't forget that you should be utilizing pp slayer anyways, and while 50% extra can help, as a Gu/Fi, don't take a hit. Unless you have like, 1800 hp, but at that point, Gu/Hu was your better choice.

Chase Advance Plus does not get added to all damage without something getting a Status Effect, as far as Im aware S atk up does not boost Deadly Approach. not having SP into pp restore is uh kinda dumb and are you really Stylish Rolling into PA's still? into what? Sat Aim????

i dont know if youre aware but GU/HU isnt outdoing GU/FI right now, I dont know if you realize this -- GU/FI with Atra TMG's the only way to go and basically Meta

[final_attack]

- Sorry for wall of text -

Uh ..... my original reasoning for SRollJA instead of APPR ....

• Mobbing wise, it doesn't need more PP recovery thanks to SRollArts's AoE.
  Hit 2 or more target, you already got more PP than you spent (granted, the mob isn't died before all 3 hits connect (killed by another person).
  Thanks to that, PP recovery shouldn't be a problem while mobbing.
• Increasing DPP for some PAs (more effect on high power one, like IF0, BulletSquall0, etc, imo)
  Due to SRollArts, which makes us rolling around anyway, it can be used for some increase on PA's damage here and there, I guess.
  While it does a bit lower DPS than aerial SatAim (1359 vs 1470), I can do 1 IF0 (non-SCharge) for 40 PP instead of 3x (or 4) SatAim for 60 (or 80) PP .... with less care to perfect timing for JA (which being used to calculate dps, right?).
• There's also a little bit for ChainFinish, I'll write it under spoiler box below (for my own note as well ).
  It's mainly when used as GuHu tho. I preferred GuHu due to tankiness (depends on what attacks thrown at me, I usually tank things when doing Chain Finish).
  
  Spoiler!

  Note :
  about PP cost for IF0 ..... it depends on craft done. Can be less or more. I'm using middle ground of 5.
  Expected frame is 200, for Chain Finish window. Can be less tho.
  Power based on swiki data (I believe it's max power for IF0, so, less power normally, I guess)
  
  Let's see ..... Some combos / PA for ChainFinish are :
  

  • SatAim - IF0 (S-Charge) - SatAim - SatAim (1 hit, may or may not hit) ..... 942 + 1821 + 942 (+471) = 3705 (4176) power, 80 (100) PP cost
    
  • Same combo (with SRollJA) ...... (942 * 1.1) + 1821 + 942 (+471) = 3799 (4270) power, 80 (100) PP cost
    
  • Elder Rebellion (with SRollJA, long range (for use on mobile target, which most likely not at ZRA)) ..... (1990 * 1.1) = 2189 power, 32 PP cost
    
  • IF0-non-SCharged (with SRollJA) ...... (3502 * 1.1) = 3852 power, 40 PP cost
    While it listed 201 frame, as far as I remember, the final blast always affected by Chain. I'll try it again while doing Apprentice later.
    

  
  
  
  
  - Note for GuFi -
  GuFi does more damage ofc, due to TAJA .....
  
  Spoiler!

  Note :
  about PP cost for IF0 ..... it depends on craft done. Can be less or more. I'm using middle ground of 5.
  Expected frame is 200, for Chain Finish window. Can be less tho.
  Power based on swiki data (I believe it's max power for IF0, so, less power normally, I guess)
  

  • SatAim - IF0 (S-Charge) - SatAim - SatAim (1 hit, may or may not hit) ..... 942 + (1821 * 1.15) + (942 * 1.15) (+471) = 4119 (4590) power, 71 (91) PP cost
    
  • Same combo (with SRollJA) ...... (942 * 1.1) + (1821 * 1.15) + (942 * 1.15) (+471) = 4213 (4684) power, 71 (91) PP cost
    
  • Elder Rebellion (with SRollJA, long range (for use on mobile target, which most likely not at ZRA)) ..... (1990 * 1.1) = 2189 power, 32 PP cost
    
  • IF0-non-SCharged (with SRollJA) ...... (3502 * 1.1) = 3852 power, 40 PP cost
    While it listed 201 frame, as far as I remember, the final blast always affected by Chain. I'll try it again while doing Apprentice later.
    
  
  Also, I'm curious about total hits when using BulletSquall for ChainFinish ..... anyone ever count total shots affected with ChainFinish (with and without kick part)? Felt like it's close in term of power due to the nature of 2x damage for shots (Gear3).

APPR do still help when you start chaining at near 0 PP with full party then you got knocked down once the chain start, and the party bring the chain to 100 (a party full of Gu / Tmg-Hr can bring that chain to 100 extremely quick) ..... leaving you with less time to recover at least 80 PP (SatAim - IF0 - SatAim combo) for Chain Finish.

It can also be used to increase total damage dealt while increasing Chain, by using SRollArts constantly (it is still slower to build chain, but with help of party, shouldn't be a problem) .... though if you have 80 (or 100) PP to begin with (when starting chain), even without APPR, you can still do this (single target mob still return the PP cost).

In the end, it's better to try it in practice, rather than reading.
If you can manage / comfortable without APPR, then, why increase the skill. If you still need APPR, then yes, by all means, increase it

[FebiZehn]

Anyone has an example of GuFi skill tree? still new on this class so need an initial reference

[Jene-chan]

Few thoughts on this.

I don't really agree with the S Roll JA vs. APPR since even though S Roll Arts is great for restoring PP but Gunner is pretty PP thirsty these days. I originally only had 2 points in it and found myself running dry pretty often so I upped it to 4 by taking some points out of Showtime Star. Though it does give you 1.10% modifier on an S Roll which I can't argue with, I feel like it isn't worth it for the 5 points investment.

On the Fi side, while I don't think it hurts to put points into Chase Advance Plus but honestly you will benefit from that a fraction of the time but there's not much else to put those points into. I put the remaining 7 points I had into S. Defense Up just because there was nothing else to grab. You should always grab Adrenaline though, can't really see why you wouldn't.

Also, unless I'm missing something, I haven't used Bullet Squall 0 in years. Effective DPS on it is significantly lower than anything else in a similar range so I'm not really finding a good use for it presently?

re: GuFi/GuHu on survivability, the Hunter subclass tree I run doesn't grab IW/NGU and just invests into Flash Guard/Flash Guard Tech because I honestly feel if you're in a position where you are dying constantly on Gunner, you need to clean up your play because while it definitely is possible for Gunner to die, you shouldn't be needing to rely on that THAT often. Gunner mostly operates out of the range of most boss' attacks so this really shouldn't be an issue.

re: stats, I went full in on Gunner gear/affixes since it's essentially my main and I've been playing for 2 years as my main. As long as you have a solid base of HP/ATK/Defenses you can essentially tank and live through most things without having to worry too much. My case may be an exception but because there was a question a few pages back, I did eat a Black Dragon fireball with Fire Resist drink on for science with no Deband/Toughness and I only took 1050 damage. I routinely eat at least one falling meteor fireball during the circle fireball attack Dragon does to get a double IF0 off on him outside of when he downs. The only times I die are when I make mistakes that honestly any one would die from so considering Gu's playstyle, there's no reason to not play risky within reason.

EDIT:

And for Fi side, I'll just throw in some points in the Striking Ups (for mainly Dead Approach-Shoulder-Stun-PA, Arial Shooting)... because there's no where else to SP dump anyway, and I'll think about what I want to do with the Chase Skills, I'll figure it out..

I missed this but unless I'm mistaken, the PAs that TMG has that have Striking portions to them, they scale off R-Atk, not S-Atk, correct? If so, putting points into S-Atk up is meaningless.

[Jene-chan]

Anyone has an example of GuFi skill tree? still new on this class so need an initial reference

I use this:

https://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skil...008dBIb0000008

There is some room for personal preference in there as well.

[FebiZehn]

I use this:

https://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skil...008dBIb0000008

There is some room for personal preference in there as well.

Oh nice thanks for the tree ^_^

S-roll JA bonus doesnt have a big impact on GuFi ? keep wondering cuz some tree using it and some not

[Zephyrion]

Few thoughts on this.

I don't really agree with the S Roll JA vs. APPR since even though S Roll Arts is great for restoring PP but Gunner is pretty PP thirsty these days. I originally only had 2 points in it and found myself running dry pretty often so I upped it to 4 by taking some points out of Showtime Star. Though it does give you 1.10% modifier on an S Roll which I can't argue with, I feel like it isn't worth it for the 5 points investment.

The point distribution here is a literal toss-up... on one hand, Front S-Roll x 1 into Sat Aim is actually higher DPS than Sat Aim into IF 0 on GU/FI with the skill added on top; which is also a lot less PP intensive. Naturally for mobbing S-Roll into any mobbing PA heavily benefits from this 1.2x extra

On the other hand APPR helps sustaining PP if you build chain with S-Roll Arts, which is arguably a different kind of benefit, but also valuable in its own respect. It's up to playstyle and quest more than anything at this point

I missed this but unless I'm mistaken, the PAs that TMG has that have Striking portions to them, they scale off R-Atk, not S-Atk, correct? If so, putting points into S-Atk up is meaningless.

Yup, these PAs are R-ATK scaling strike type, as in they take into account striking modifier (fury stance, P-Keeper/Critical Strike Striking) as well as enemy defense modifiers but R-ATK is what increases their damage