Some questions regarding Force and/or Techer

[Tenseiken]

Hey fellow Pso 2 fans! Alright, before I start to reveal my newbieness, I would like to point out that I used the search function to get answers, but I was not quite satisfied with the result as they did not deliver complete guidance for me.

I'm a rather new guy to Pso 2. All I have is a lvl 30 Braver, but the reason for that is quite embarassing. I used to play PSO BB for a quite damn long time using my FO 95% of the time. Pso 2 was no exception, I wanted to roll a FO immediately, but some stuff leaves my scratching my chin without any progress.

-The Skill Tree-

-I love it, but I hate it at the same time. I pretty much wanna spec everything there. I noticed, that PP costs for longer, sustained fights are my biggest enemy and I want to improve on that. (If you don't prove me wrong)

-The second thing I noticed is the PP cost reduce of bolt skills...aaaand that's pretty much all about it, because only bolt skills have that. What is the reason only one element has got the reduce cost skill? Am I misunderstanding something here?

-So the third point is about Just attacks and Charge attacks. I found myself using only Just and Charge attacks together, simply because of the dmg boost and the PP i save by doing so. As Force, we actually have two skills to boost both of them, but my questions is, do they stack? Let's say I max both, Just and Charge attack skill bonus, will the bonus stack? (If it's worth it to spec them in the first place)


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To sum that up, the questions are:

1. General advice in speccing a damage/sustained Force

2. Any big secret behind the PP save skill for only one element

3. Just and Charge attack skills and what to do about them

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So yeah, these are my biggest hold-backs to play a Force as I do not know what to go for. When it comes to Techer, I do not have that many questions as the first go-to's are really obvious, like PP Restraint 1 and Element Weak Hit. (They seem to be relaly good to me at least.)


Okay, one final question, then we're through, promise! As I said, I want to be the damage oriented type of FO, how do I actually compete with other dmg dealers? As we all know, FO's in PSO BB used to be the support, but now I want to be the big hitting element guy, can I keep up with them?



I'm really grateful for any help or general advices. If my rather long text still lacks in any information, please say so and I can clearify myself.

Thank you!

[Arada]

1. FO has a vital skill which is Tech PP Revival which lets you regenerate PP as you're charging your techs. This helps a lot in being able to do damages for a long time.
Other than that, it's your own management. Knowing when to stop, Mirage Escape, hit an enemy and so on.
I've seen a lot of FO use Gunslash or Talis to regenerate PP without going into the melee.

2. Well yes, it's only for Lightning techs. Those techs have a higher average PP cost by the way.

3. Yes they stack. In fact, they're even multiplicative. So maxing Tech Charge Boost and both JA Tech Boost would give you a 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 = 1.33 = 33% bonus to all charged + JA techs.

4. In terms of damage dealer, you'll be good at clearing mobs. For the bosses, you'll be good if/when you get some of the latest techs (notably Nafoie, Nazonde and especially Namegid). Without these techs, you'll be able to manage but you'll be much slower than melee classes.

[CalusEx]

Arada made already a really good post with lots of informations.

i can add just some things here to make the things clearer.

2. every element has its own "special ability", as for expample lightning has the PP reduction (arada already mentioned the higher base costs of lightning without that skill), Fire techs charge very fast but deal not that much dmg as lightning, exept you have nafoie, but it costs 35 PP, there we go to to the next point that you have to sub Techer as a Fire FO for the bonus PP utility, but i think i go too much into the detail.
Frost is sadly just not viable, just because its too dependent of freezing enemies and you can only freeze a few bosses btw.

3. everything got said here to clear your question, keep in mind that other dmg percentages of, for example stances of fighter, are going to boost your tech dmg aswell (if you want to go lightning i suggest go for fighter sub, just because you are not that dependent of massive PP regeneration from techer and you most likely dont hit weak spots with zonde spam)

4. Arada already mentioned it, going for the new techs is really important to keep yourself at least near the meeles, but a proper build is even more important then that imo.

i actually aiming for this tree, when i burn my skill reset ticket

http://tinyurl.com/q9j6nps

i am going for a more fire oriented tree with lightning for good AoE dmg if its needed and with the proper PP utility i have because of techer makes it easier (better said possible) to use the fire techs effectively.

For a proper lighning specc i sadly cant give you any advice, better said i have not another good sub class for Force on a high lvl to make any suggestion how to build a proper tree for it.

hopefully my post was helpfull in any way :3

[Tenseiken]

1. FO has a vital skill which is Tech PP Revival which lets you regenerate PP as you're charging your techs. This helps a lot in being able to do damages for a long time.
Other than that, it's your own management. Knowing when to stop, Mirage Escape, hit an enemy and so on.
I've seen a lot of FO use Gunslash or Talis to regenerate PP without going into the melee.

2. Well yes, it's only for Lightning techs. Those techs have a higher average PP cost by the way.

3. Yes they stack. In fact, they're even multiplicative. So maxing Tech Charge Boost and both JA Tech Boost would give you a 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 = 1.33 = 33% bonus to all charged + JA techs.

4. In terms of damage dealer, you'll be good at clearing mobs. For the bosses, you'll be good if/when you get some of the latest techs (notably Nafoie, Nazonde and especially Namegid). Without these techs, you'll be able to manage but you'll be much slower than melee classes.

Alright, the PP Revival was the skill I was aiming first, so I guess nothing wrong there. The problem I see with this whole regaining PP with using gunslash/talis is that you have a very big drop in dps for that time while melee classes still dish out quite some dmg with normal attacks. (Is that a problem or is the Tech damage already high enough to compensate for that massive dps drop while regaining PP?

Arada made already a really good post with lots of informations.

i can add just some things here to make the things clearer.

2. every element has its own "special ability", as for expample lightning has the PP reduction (arada already mentioned the higher base costs of lightning without that skill), Fire techs charge very fast but deal not that much dmg as lightning, exept you have nafoie, but it costs 35 PP, there we go to to the next point that you have to sub Techer as a Fire FO for the bonus PP utility, but i think i go too much into the detail.
Frost is sadly just not viable, just because its too dependent of freezing enemies and you can only freeze a few bosses btw.

3. everything got said here to clear your question, keep in mind that other dmg percentages of, for example stances of fighter, are going to boost your tech dmg aswell (if you want to go lightning i suggest go for fighter sub, just because you are not that dependent of massive PP regeneration from techer and you most likely dont hit weak spots with zonde spam)

4. Arada already mentioned it, going for the new techs is really important to keep yourself at least near the meeles, but a proper build is even more important then that imo.

i actually aiming for this tree, when i burn my skill reset ticket

http://tinyurl.com/q9j6nps

i am going for a more fire oriented tree with lightning for good AoE dmg if its needed and with the proper PP utility i have because of techer makes it easier (better said possible) to use the fire techs effectively.

For a proper lighning specc i sadly cant give you any advice, better said i have not another good sub class for Force on a high lvl to make any suggestion how to build a proper tree for it.

hopefully my post was helpfull in any way :3

Wait, hold on one second. Am I not supposed to switch to the elemental weakness for every single enemy like I did in PSO BB? You are talking about a very specific 1(2) element spec. Now I'm really confused as to how FO's work or I'm just making it too complicated myself. I thought it would work just like PSO BB just with the addition that the weakness is actually shown upper left. Got any more information regarding that?

Oh and if you don't mind, can I ask a few questions regarding your build? I'm not disagreeing with anything as I don't understand the mechanics quite yet.

1. Wand Gear? Why exactly a Wand and what does that specific Gear do? (oh god i'm so sorry)

2. PP Convert - I see that being really good at keeping your PP flowing and spam more abilities, but is it actually viable to use withot getting 1 shot later? Just an objective question for further clearification.

3. The massive Dark Mastery dump - I guess this serves purely for Namegid? With your build specifically focusing on Fire and Lightning, where would you actually use Namegid?


I'm pretty sure this should be basic knowledge, I'm really sorry. I think I'm comparing the PSO2 FO to much with the PSOBB FO.


I already wanna thank you both as you two gave me a lot of information.
Emergency Broadcast: Help a Noob is at a 80% Defeat Rate!

[Magus_84]

Wait, hold on one second. Am I not supposed to switch to the elemental weakness for every single enemy like I did in PSO BB? You are talking about a very specific 1(2) element spec. Now I'm really confused as to how FO's work or I'm just making it too complicated myself. I thought it would work just like PSO BB just with the addition that the weakness is actually shown upper left. Got any more information regarding that?

The system's much more flexible than PSO DC/GC/BB, especially those games on Ultimate difficulty.

There's no penalty for using off-element techs in this, it's just that using the element an enemy's weak to will give a damage bonus.

So no more "you can only use one element to damage this certain type of enemy" thing. All techs do baseline damage against all enemies, with techs they're weak to doing a bit more damage, based on the enemy's weakness modifier.

So it's entirely viable (and often recommended) to make a mostly-single-element caster, as the advantages in the spec tree of sticking to a single element can often outdo the situational weakness bonus.

I did a split between Fire and Lightning on the Force tech tree (Flame S Charge and Bolt PP Save maxed, along with Tech Charge Advance), and on Techer I'm aiming for some points in Wind Mastery after I get the support-boosting stuff maxed, for example.

Also, as far as Gunslash and regaining PP goes: You can jump, fire off just-attack normal shots on Gunslash and regain most of a bar of PP before you hit the ground. It's pretty fast. Still a bit clumsy with switching, but it's usually faster than specifically closing to melee range to use Rod. Talis also works decently for PP regen, since you'll need to use an attack to re-position for more casting from them after every couple of techs.

[Tenseiken]

The system's much more flexible than PSO DC/GC/BB, especially those games on Ultimate difficulty.

There's no penalty for using off-element techs in this, it's just that using the element an enemy's weak to will give a damage bonus.

So no more "you can only use one element to damage this certain type of enemy" thing. All techs do baseline damage against all enemies, with techs they're weak to doing a bit more damage, based on the enemy's weakness modifier.

So it's entirely viable (and often recommended) to make a mostly-single-element caster, as the advantages in the spec tree of sticking to a single element can often outdo the situational weakness bonus.

I did a split between Fire and Lightning on the Force tech tree (Flame S Charge and Bolt PP Save maxed, along with Tech Charge Advance), and on Techer I'm aiming for some points in Wind Mastery after I get the support-boosting stuff maxed, for example.

Also, as far as Gunslash and regaining PP goes: You can jump, fire off just-attack normal shots on Gunslash and regain most of a bar of PP before you hit the ground. It's pretty fast. Still a bit clumsy with switching, but it's usually faster than specifically closing to melee range to use Rod. Talis also works decently for PP regen, since you'll need to use an attack to re-position for more casting from them after every couple of techs.

My mind = blown. That's pretty much all I can say to that. I love PSO2. Now I can see the sense behind all the different masteries. The first time I saw the Techs in a video long time ago I always knew I would go for dark techs only and this is even possible. Oh god.

So with that being clearified, going for a fire focus in the force tree and a dark focus in the techer tree is completely viable? for example this: http://tinyurl.com/mt7ls6n or That for a Thunder focus instead: http://tinyurl.com/n7rrv6f

[jiasu73]

My mind = blown. That's pretty much all I can say to that. I love PSO2. Now I can see the sense behind all the different masteries. The first time I saw the Techs in a video long time ago I always knew I would go for dark techs only and this is even possible. Oh god.

So with that being clearified, going for a fire focus in the force tree and a dark focus in the techer tree is completely viable? for example this: http://tinyurl.com/mt7ls6n or That for a Thunder focus instead: http://tinyurl.com/n7rrv6f

If you will be buying an extra tree for FO i recommend getting both of these. These are the current max damage trees for their respective elements. 30 t-atk> 1% with all buffs as of current end game.



Fire
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...Ik00009b00000f


Lightning
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...Ik00009b00000f

[Inazuma]

While it's entirely possible to perform decently in every area of the game with a single skill tree, you will be much stronger if you get a skill tree for each element, and change your skill trees when you change quests. You also should probably get a PP convert tree, to be used when you primarily use fire, like in the Tundra.

I noticed that people haven't been talking about ice much in this thread. Gibarta is probably the best tech in the game.

Using gibarta with an ice tree in the new Coast area completely demolishes entire rooms of enemies like nobody's business.

If you want to play force and do well in every area, you need multiple skill trees.

[Tenseiken]

While it's entirely possible to perform decently in every area of the game with a single skill tree, you will be much stronger if you get a skill tree for each element, and change your skill trees when you change quests. You also should probably get a PP convert tree, to be used when you primarily use fire, like in the Tundra.

I noticed that people haven't been talking about ice much in this thread. Gibarta is probably the best tech in the game.

Using gibarta with an ice tree in the new Coast area completely demolishes entire rooms of enemies like nobody's business.

If you want to play force and do well in every area, you need multiple skill trees.

If you will be buying an extra tree for FO i recommend getting both of these. These are the current max damage trees for their respective elements. 30 t-atk> 1% with all buffs as of current end game.



Fire
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...Ik00009b00000f


Lightning
http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...Ik00009b00000f

The trees look really nice to me and I was also considering PP Convert, but I was concerned if I get 1 shot with that massive HP loss. Talking about additional trees, buying trees requires AC, but are they also buyable with meseta or is it AC only?

[UnLucky]

Additional trees can only be purchased with AC, but after any major skill tree change or addition, Sega hands out a free All-tree reset pass. Doesn't really help you switch specs for each area, but you can at least respec for the latest new thing without worrying too much.

I'd also like to point out that enemies do sometimes have elemental resistances, but it's nowhere near as crippling as before. Another thing is that every single fire technic is good. You can't say that about any other element, as they all have their bad apples. Lightning has one of, if not the most useful technics in the game, namely Zondeel. It is useful in every area on practically every enemy, either for the suction property for easy mobbing or for the powerful and wide area damage and Shock status effect.

That alone is reason enough to spec for fire and/or lightning all the time, and with multiple skilltrees locked behind real money, there's little incentive for specialized trees. Not to mention a vast majority of the enemies are weak to either fire or lightning. Any other pair of elements covers strictly fewer total enemies. Even the ice-weak enemies in the new Coast area are all weak to fire as well.

That said, you do gain quite a bit of damage for targeting weaknesses, sometimes even making up for missing elemental Masteries, so proper typing can definitely give you an advantage. The biggest gap in the fire/bolt spec is versus Dragonkin, which are weak to ice or dark. That is why a dark spec Techer sub is preferable for those areas. For anything else, a Fighter or Braver sub would give you better damage, though Techer still has much better PP regen (plus Territory Burst and other support skills).

PP Convert might seem risky at first, but you get so much PP regen for its duration that you can safely hang back and throw techs nonstop from a distance. You can also dodge more freely since you will simply regen your lost PP from your canceled charge.