Bouncer Class Discussion

[D-Inferno]

Braver and Bouncer are good examples of why PSO2's need to bundle every weapon-type they add with a new class is a retarded idea. We have basically 4 melee classes, and balancing all 4 is pretty much impossible w/o one of them outclassing the other. I feel like Sega really could have just Katana, Bow, DB, and JB to Hu, Gu, Fi, and Te respectively.

Really should have just stuck with PSP2/i's system where it's just Hu/Ra/Fo/Va (Br in JP); and you just pick like 3 weapons to use by leveling your equipment requirement (memory is a bit weak here; but I think it's skill system was far better too). Not saying OP Vanguard traps should come back, but the basic equipment set up was perfect.

[Kondibon]

Braver and Bouncer are good examples of why PSO2's need to bundle every weapon-type they add with a new class is a retarded idea. We have basically 4 melee classes, and balancing all 4 is pretty much impossible w/o one of them outclassing the other. I feel like Sega really could have just Katana, Bow, DB, and JB to Hu, Gu, Fi, and Te respectively.

Really should have just stuck with PSP2/i's system where it's just Hu/Ra/Fo/Va (Br in JP); and you just pick like 3 weapons to use by leveling your equipment requirement (memory is a bit weak here; but I think it's skill system was far better too). Not saying OP Vanguard traps should come back, but the basic equipment set up was perfect.

I understand your sentiment, but that wouldn't really solve this specific problem, since it's the weapons that are bad, not the classes in the first place.

PSP2's skill system was better defined, and less punishing, but it was also way more limited in how many skills you could have at a time, and was kinda built with the idea that class stat differences actually made a big difference, which they don't in PSO2. Still I wouldn't mind something more forgiving and less bloated.

[D-Inferno]

DBs are alright, but admittedly are pretty underdeveloped. Kestral needs more power; Distract needs to rival Guren and Ilzonde more. JB was just straight up lazy; I get the impression that the devs wanted to just add DBs, but they needed to bundle it with something else with a brand new class to level.

[Kondibon]

DBs are alright, but admittedly are pretty underdeveloped. Kestral needs more power; Distract needs to rival Guren and Ilzonde more. JB was just straight up lazy; I get the impression that the devs wanted to just add DBs, but they needed to bundle it with something else with a brand new class to level.

I'd actually rather see Gurrent nerfed a bit. Not anything dramatic, just end load the damage more and increase the PP cost of the second part to like 20 or 25. I don't like approach PAs doing notable damage without a downside like a high pp cost. Does anyone even use Ilzonde for damage? ._.

As for jetboots, you're basically right. The devs straight up said they originally wanted to do wands like that but felt it was too complicated at the time (either for the players or in terms of mechanics, I forget which), so they saved the idea for a later class. I do wish they'd give wands PAs and nerf the normal attacks though. :/

Personally if the skill trees for the weapon focused classes weren't so... well... weapon focused, the idea of subbing one for it's weapons wouldn't even be an issue. But because Br and Bo generally don't do much for any weapons other than their own there's literally no reason to use them for anything else in most cases.

EDIT: That last bit doesn't make sense. Basically, I think using weapons from multiple classes and attack types should be more viable than it is currently, and a big part of that is the fact that the weapon focused classes don't add enough to other weapons, so you're still stuck with theirs if you use them as subs.

MOAR EDIT: Also, I'm butthurt that there's a lot of class combos that work in principal or mechanically, but end up being, at best, super niche, and at worst being pointless because sega balances classes like their base stats matter more than the multipliers. Especially since some of them sega actually considered, like Bo/Fo. :/

[Shadowstarkirby]

DB is great for bossing, but mobbing with it is just terrible, especially without a rainbow set. Dispersion Shrike is like Karan-Kikyou, good in SH, but trash in XH. Distraction Wing needs to be cheaper, Justice Crow needs to be stronger, and there should be an aerial DPS PA that keeps you in place (buffed Justice Crow).

JB is just outclassed in everything it does. It wants to be all of Fi's weapons, but doesn't have the power, accuracy, or speed of any of them. It also wants to utilize techniques like Fo and Te but doesn't have the technique power or support to use them over it's PAs which are also too few and have noticable issues. Strike Gust hits all over the place, Gran Wave homing is clunky and hits all over the place, Moment Gale has poor DPS, a weaker pull than Zondeel, and interrupts stronger Zanverses, and Vinto Gigue has too long a wind-up, empties your gear, and resets your element. I mean, the weapon works fine in practice, but if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture, it's definitely not as good as others.

I do think Bo does good damage with both weapons as long as they rotate both actives. Outside of that, they're both just meh and have to work harder to keep up, so it ends up being very necessary that you take both weapons instead of just one or the other.

[Altiea]

Sometimes I wish Classes were more open-ended as in Nova. In fact, just give us Buster.

[Sakarisei]

- Having DBs able to switch element> adding t-atk
- Switch strike not main class.
- Vinto needs a gear nerf so you don't lose element after every use (although this would make it really OP i think)
- Element stance needs a small buff too imo. Like 35-40% from 30%.
- Reduce S/D skills to 1 point.
- Add something useful to fields like 5-10% extra damage when you hit a critical while inside the field and 10% extra to pp regen with the element one. (this applies to all players inside).
- Support techs not changing element (sega why would you do this?)

Just stuff i can think to hopefully improve bouncer (as if hoping for Sega will do anything lol)

1) For addint T-ATK to DBs, for me it's most preferably making melee and ranged weapons with T-ATK added in the extension crafting, mainly because if people see that in the DBs, people who play as a magic knight or as a spellsword outside of BO (FO/HU, TE/HU with multiclassing, TE/BR with multiclassing, TE/FI with multiclassing and the viceversas) will complain about it.

About making DBs able to switch element, tbh I don't see it necessary, but it people wants it, I don't mind seeing that thing in PSO2.

2) Well, that thing is a big issue that basically many classes are being focused to be only main class, using just the subclass for the passive skills of the other classes. No only that point shouldn't be main class only. For example, certain skills like Critical Strike and/or Limit Break in FI shouldn't be Main Class too, for non-talking that other skills like the Element Conversion of FO class, imo, shouldn't be main class only.

3) I agree.

4) For that thing is highly preferably the following thing... Element Stance is 30% and Element Stance Up is still 10%, while Break Stance is 45% and then, making 15% for non-breaking weapons for following JB users multiclass users having a small chance in the case that they can't match element. Of course, Break Stance up is still 10%

5) Not necessarily... but it's true that those skills should be more powerful for 5SP. I recommend the Shifta Aerial Boost Attack increasing from 2-10% instead 1-5% while spending 1-5 SP. In the Deband Attack PP Regen, I prefer 1-5 PP instead 1-3 PP with a ridiculous increase of 0'5PP each SP spent in that skill.

6) The main problem of it is FI/BOs will abuse of it, especially when Critical Strike and Limit Break is main class only too. For that thing we must make a new version of the skill trees for suggesting like that. I'm not telling you that fields must be better. Of course they must be better. Just consider it.

7) Unless I'm wrong, or any update made that thing that you've mentioned, support techs doesn't change your element while using the JBs.

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One of the things that I'd like to add is the GP Burst of PS Nova to the BO and the BR class, mainly because that class requires slightly more power for more PP consumption, basically the same with the Las Vegas 13* weapons...

[Tunga]

1)
About making DBs able to switch element, tbh I don't see it necessary, but it people wants it, I don't mind seeing that thing in PSO2.

1- Because bouncer has element stance, this game has 6 elements and getting 6 different DBs is incredibly stupid for a melee class (same with Fo). I already have 4 (and working on a 5th with ray). With the funds i spent on those i could've gotten 13* for my Hu already.

2- It's so FiBo players can do better with Jb. I personally don't care since i never sub Bo, but other combos could use the buff.

4- Element stance is 20% with 10% from the second skill ends up with 32%. That's low for such a requirement, and on quest with diverse mobs its becomes useless.

5- Yeah for 5 sp they're not great, and they only work under s/d. They seem more like 1 sp skills than 5sp to me.

6- Applying critical damage to a critical rate boosting skill is the only thing i can think of to make it useful. Actually more like common sense. If Fi, Gu and Bo will abuse it then it works.

7- Zondeel, Zanverse and Megiverse switch element. It was a stupid change.

[Sakarisei]

I know what do you say about Elemental Stance. However, if you use both weapons, you won't have that problem, not at least imo.

About the Element Stance, I can understand the problem. That's why I suggested for you 30% in Element stance and 45% in Break stance for making those stances more viable. Of course, the Up version of the stances are still 10%.

[Tunga]

I know what do you say about Elemental Stance. However, if you use both weapons, you won't have that problem, not at least imo.

1/2 weapons bo can use, cant use its main source of damage consistently. That will always be a problem.

About the Element Stance, I can understand the problem. That's why I suggested for you 30% in Element stance and 45% in Break stance for making those stances more viable. Of course, the Up version of the stances are still 10%.

I misunderstood then.