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Thread: PSO Remake

  1. #11

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    If you say so, but you'll find it more costly later on. But to each their own.

    "Don't look for the people in your past. There is a reason they don't exist in your future." - Riesz
    Ship 2 - ID: Chrysheight

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saya Laurent View Post
    If you say so, but you'll find it more costly later on. But to each their own.
    That may be but at the moment it is a non-issue. High quality hosting is costly. Low quality temporary hosting is not. A project/application of this nature does not need a fully functioning platform for deployment before development begins. A project of this scope may take longer than decisions of that nature would remain fresh too; as to say the data used to make a decision like that may drastically change by the time of its completion.

    Time spent developing alone will far outweigh any hosting issue the project would run into. I think making a decision or coming to a solution for hosting would just be pseudo-progress for a project like this akin to how some other groups function (Ex. We need a name for our project, we need a website for our project) when the decision or solution doesn't actually contribute to the development. If I somehow had an answer and solution to your question, which I'm arguing isn't a major deal in my previous posts, development would not change course and the project would be not where near closer to being in the hands of players.
    Last edited by Glader; Nov 29, 2014 at 10:09 PM.

  3. #13

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    I like the fact that you are picking up the project of remaking PSO even with amount of risk topping over the reward, not to mention the cost amount too.

    What worries me most was when you responded to one of Saya's post about possible removal of the game with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Glader View Post
    Being noticed by Sega would imply a relative success either way.
    True that you may be noticed by Sega but it will not be in a good way, or in worse case scenario a rememberable one.

    Now, my question is "Would this be a full 100% remake or not?" (do not include change in visuals as a change)

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by strikerhunter View Post
    I like the fact that you are picking up the project of remaking PSO even with amount of risk topping over the reward, not to mention the cost amount too.

    What worries me most was when you responded to one of Saya's post about possible removal of the game with this:

    True that you may be noticed by Sega but it will not be in a good way, or in worse case scenario a rememberable one.

    Now, my question is "Would this be a full 100% remake or not?" (do not include change in visuals as a change)
    Well I think the cost of a project like this is being hyped up a bit too much. Only successful and popular projects become costly to host. There is really only a time cost. I will be transparent as to why I'm rather willing to produce this; One: in general I study my field by practice and honestly there is no more entertaining way to work on a skill set, such as programming and networking, than with developing a game I believe. Two: I'm and have been passionate about PSO for a long time now. It's been a part of my life since about 2002. That's about over half my life so I think I owe it and the community that has been there a tribute such as this. Three: Any reasonably functional project of this scope can be valuable to reference in the future for a wide ranging variety of reasons and will be especially easy for anyone contributing to do since I'd like to push for open-source.

    As for being noticed, it is a drawback that I put no smoke and mirrors around yes. Unlike other fan projects you may see around the internet that infringe on someone's IP I'm realistic to that fact. A best case scenario is, by some miracle, seeing a project such as this as beneficial as described earlier with the expansion of webased and mobile games. This would be odd though if those who end up wanting to collaborate, if anyone does at least, do agree to go open-source under a BSD/MIT license. A lot of legal mumbo jumbo would have to occur even if by some grace Sega took a non-negative interest. When I get some time I'll send out some emails that will likely be futile to inquire on what steps I could take, if any, to produce a fan project such as this within a legal domain but there are few hopes. This is a very complicated issue for which I have no fantastic answer for. Several private servers operate within an infringing domain and I believe I know under what protections they operate, really though it's up in the air on that.

    I think the answer to your remake question is tough as if someone ends up collaborating with me it would be a group decision. I'm more on the side of the fence that thinks that if developers were afforded processing and computing power back in the day certain things would have been designed differently. A one-to-one remake wouldn't really be beneficial. I think many online aspects and features were limited to the constraints at the time. Trading, grouping, the lobby and block system, the party size limit and the general scale of the world were all limited by the factors of technology at the time. I think a good balance of innovation where it needed to be and leaving things that make PSO obviously the same would be important.

    As for the networking you can bet your bottom and top dollar that a more authoritative approach for the serverside will be taken. Bless the developers who originally created this technology beast ahead of its time but I feel they failed in assuring its security. I do not blame them much now a days, unimaginable networking hurdles likely existed in the year 1999 that I cannot even fathom today. It was likely the only way it could have been.

    So, overall, I think there is considerable room to handle things differently which when the project gets there will be addressed. A project like this has the benefit of hindsight that the original developers did not. All and all a project such as this is in a good position to take advantage of this and produce a higher quality product, hopefully. It will remain to be seen how it all pans out but cautious optimism never hurts.
    Last edited by Glader; Nov 29, 2014 at 10:38 PM.

  5. #15

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    As far as I'm concerned, if you make good progress, noticible stuff, I'm happy for you and will support it. I just can't throw my support behind something like this right now. Not trying to be stuck up or elitist in any way, shape, form, or fashion. Just I've been under the same scrutiny that I put you under. If things get done, so on so forth, I have no problem throwing support your way. Not to say I'm not hoping you get far, because I hope you do.

    I will say this to anyone who would think this is a waste of time though, it's really not. You would think it is from a non-developer standpoint, but from a standpoint that Glader and I both would have as people who do work on stuff like this. Anything that is created between now and either C&D or completion is a learning experience we will walk away from with better knowledge and a better chance at things in the future.

    The only reason I was being difficult is because I have done a project, not the same one but one extremely similar in premise, like this before. It ended terribly, even with most of the work done for us, even borrowing someone's IP (Intellectual Property for those who haven't figured that out.), we still failed because of stuff we just couldn't control. Though admittedly, that was probably 6-8 years back, it was the failed dream of teenagers. I just don't want to have hopes for another project that I'd really like to see take off and it not go anywhere.

    And yes, I really would like to see this take off.

    P.S. I do level design in my spare time. Shocking twist, I know. No, I'm not showing work because I don't like to push crap and my portfolio hasn't been updated in some time.

    "Don't look for the people in your past. There is a reason they don't exist in your future." - Riesz
    Ship 2 - ID: Chrysheight

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glader View Post
    Well I think the cost of a project like this is being hyped up a bit too much. Only successful and popular projects become costly to host. There is really only a time cost. I will be transparent as to why I'm rather willing to produce this; One: in general I study my field by practice and honestly there is no more entertaining way to work on a skill set, such as programming and networking, than with developing a game I believe. Two: I'm and have been passionate about PSO for a long time now. It's been a part of my life since about 2002. That's about over half my life so I think I owe it and the community that has been there a tribute such as this. Three: Any reasonably functional project of this scope can be valuable to reference in the future for a wide ranging variety of reasons and will be especially easy for anyone contributing to do since I'd like to push for open-source.

    As for being noticed, it is a drawback that I put no smoke and mirrors around yes. Unlike other fan projects you may see around the internet that infringe on someone's IP I'm realistic to that fact. A best case scenario is, by some miracle, seeing a project such as this as beneficial as described earlier with the expansion of webased and mobile games. This would be odd though if those who end up wanting to collaborate, if anyone does at least, do agree to go open-source under a BSD/MIT license. A lot of legal mumbo jumbo would have to occur even if by some grace Sega took a non-negative interest. When I get some time I'll send out some emails that will likely be futile to inquire on what steps I could take, if any, to produce a fan project such as this within a legal domain but there are few hopes. This is a very complicated issue for which I have no fantastic answer for. Several private servers operate within an infringing domain and I believe I know under what protections they operate, really though it's up in the air on that.

    I think the answer to your remake question is tough as if someone ends up collaborating with me it would be a group decision. I'm more on the side of the fence that thinks that if developers were afforded processing and computing power back in the day certain things would have been designed differently. A one-to-one remake wouldn't really be beneficial. I think many online aspects and features were limited to the constraints at the time. Trading, grouping, the lobby and block system, the party size limit and the general scale of the world were all limited by the factors of technology at the time. I think a good balance of innovation where it needed to be and leaving things that make PSO obviously the same would be important.

    As for the networking you can bet your bottom and top dollar that a more authoritative approach for the serverside will be taken. Bless the developers who originally created this technology beast ahead of its time but I feel they failed in assuring its security. I do not blame them much now a days, unimaginable networking hurdles likely existed in the year 1999 that I cannot even fathom today. It was likely the only way it could have been.

    So, overall, I think there is considerable room to handle things differently which when the project gets there will be addressed. A project like this has the benefit of hindsight that the original developers did not. All and all a project such as this is in a good position to take advantage of this and produce a higher quality product, hopefully. It will remain to be seen how it all pans out but cautious optimism never hurts.
    Sounds promising and very ambitious. While I won't give physical support (because I hate accomplishing something just to have it thrown away or almost) I do fully support with the fact that you are this.

  7. #17

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    I completely understand, I myself would feel the same way. We're both realists and see a post like this all too often I'd imagine. Possible by someone who proposes some grand idea and seeks others to make it happen with no regard for his own contribution or anything else. In fact I'll be honest I've seen it happen with PSO before. As for not showing much that I too understand. Maybe it'd have been best to show some the functionality of the previous version I'd written, it's just not too pretty. It's just functional. I feel like that gets a similar if not less enthusiastic response.

    In a couple of weeks when the semester ends I'll crunch down in getting some features pushed out and presentable and hopefully people can have a bit more faith then. Until then I don't expect much else, was just pretty satisfied with a titlescreen I did the other day and since I've some free time coming up thought I'd share it and hopefully restart the project. If I had done no previous work on a PSO project I'd certainty not have made this post.

    A titlescreen is laughable in the overall scheme of the project but it was novel to me as I never delved into anything art related and it was a fun experience that acquainted me with Unity's shuriken system, albeit not programmatically which would have been more useful, but still none the less. It was also a great way to finally touch on the new built in UI for Unity3d in 4.6, although full use was obviously not been made. A major reason why a project like this could be open source. Because, let's be honest, no sane person wants to deal with builtin GUI pre 4.6.

    Hopefully I'll have more to present soon. Maybe it was too soon to post this, who knows. Stay tuned though

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by strikerhunter View Post
    Sounds promising and very ambitious. While I won't give physical support (because I hate accomplishing something just to have it thrown away or almost) I do fully support with the fact that you are this.
    Well, I hope not to let you or anyone down. It should be fun.
    Last edited by Glader; Nov 30, 2014 at 12:49 AM.

  8. #18

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    If you can make a title screen, some cube movement across a couple computers, may like some functional stuff that you'd see in PSO. I'll dust off the model makers and start trying to fill in some art gaps as time permits. But I'd like to see a functioning base first. I'm not asking for anything right away. I know how busy people can be, work two jobs myself. Just whenever something I feel is concrete enough, I will lend effort. I make better levels than environmental art, but hell, good time to expand my horizon.

    "Don't look for the people in your past. There is a reason they don't exist in your future." - Riesz
    Ship 2 - ID: Chrysheight

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saya Laurent View Post
    If you can make a title screen, some cube movement across a couple computers, may like some functional stuff that you'd see in PSO. I'll dust off the model makers and start trying to fill in some art gaps as time permits. But I'd like to see a functioning base first. I'm not asking for anything right away. I know how busy people can be, work two jobs myself. Just whenever something I feel is concrete enough, I will lend effort. I make better levels than environmental art, but hell, good time to expand my horizon.
    Well, I can do one better than cubes lol. The last PSO project took advantage of the UMA framework. Theoritically one could map races with UMA and have fully dynamic character customization. The project only utilized the base models since I am in no way a modeler. But the programming was in place to support race swaps in the future, UMA is complicated though so I won't get into it atm. It's tough to recall but the movement was handled decently by the gameserver, broadcasting it from client to gameserver then to region server and to other interested clients (only clients nearby recieved the updates). I felt rather than enforce authoritative movement sanity checks on a simulating instance/region server would be better and more efficient.

    Edit: But it did have runtime character customization. I have an old proof of concept application laying around I could link, I tried to convince a team I was on to switch to UMA. Probably was too complicated for them.

    So I can promise you more functionality than cubes movements =P. As for a roadmap of the project, like I said before, some GladNet features (a net lib I've been working on) need to be finished up and then from there I think the good old proxy server auth server pair needs to be written up again with GladNet. That shouldn't take took long, I've done that far too many times. After that I'll re-implement some session logic from the last project, that'd be a pain to completely rewrite, for game servers. And at that point I'd be back at character customization, might roll my own slim version of UMA if I can figure out how to manipulate models at runtime. If not I'll go with UMA and hopefully a compotent modeler can work with me to produce UMA compatible races and slots and such for UMA based on PSO.

    The features GladNet needs that are in limbo atm is an encryption API for registering encryption methods, that's half down atm working on diffiehellman exchange and the basic AES from .Net as a base default for people to use, and then I also promised an API for server launcher to server communication for managing servers at runtime through the launcher. I'll postpone working on a patching system I guess since finishing that would not seem like as much progress.

    That should hopefully only be a week or less after finals are over. It'll be abit more than cubes I promise ^,^
    Last edited by Glader; Nov 30, 2014 at 01:37 AM.

  10. #20

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    I'll look forward to it.

    "Don't look for the people in your past. There is a reason they don't exist in your future." - Riesz
    Ship 2 - ID: Chrysheight

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