Techer Guide/Thread 2.0

[Alandsmj]

Automate is not only a life saver but also an "enabler". The higher the difficulty the more handy it becomes. Yes techers can heal with megiverse but that takes PP AND time, and time is essential in many situations.

Scenario 1: In XH TD, you Zondeeled a large group of enemies with MH activated, and you've got an unlocked crafted Adaman that is eager to chill their bones. Yes you can put an uncharged megiverse in between but the time it takes can also be used to do another swing. And since WG applies status effects, that extra swing instead of a megiverse is actually whole lot of freezing checks.

Scenario 2: If you want to do XH Magatsu for whatever reason (12S maybe), MH with Automate makes sure you can spam Vol Grap+Zen Throw unstoppable. And when MH is on CD, Automate can still save you tons of time to megiverse

Scenario 3： You want to do damage fast, so instead of megiverse, you can instead Zanverse and get more damage while utilizing Automate to keep your HP.

So basically there is NO reason Not to take full Automate when subbing HU. Not taking it seriously limits your DPS, utility ans survivability and I have no idea why you don't want it as a TE/HU.

Btw, Vol Grap does not copy damage from Zanverse. In fact, damage from Zanverse would not trigger Vol Grap at all. So no, you won't be doing massive damage with Vol + Zanverse+11 other people.

[LonelyGaruga]

There's no reason to use Automate if your HP is already sufficient to not need Megiverse in the first place, which is actually not uncommon at all. You can do all of those things without Automate or Megiverse. I already mentioned scenario 3 as a reason to use Automate Halfline in the guide anyway. For the record, I do personally use Automate Halfline and would recommend using it over not using it, but there are actually reasons to not use it, and for the sake of completion I would have to cover that. Seems like ice techs would handle scenario 1 better anyway if your goal was to freeze...though sufficient damage output should make that less than necessary.

As for Zanverse...yeah, checking swiki, it really doesn't. Guess Sega thought ahead for a change (CT + VG/BA anyone?). I knew Vol Graptor doesn't get triggered by Zanverse, because Zanverse isn't really a proper PA (VG > Zanverse > normal triggering VG would be ridiculous), but I didn't know it didn't copy Zanverse damage period. Oh well, Zanverse doesn't need to do that to be good. I'll remove that mention from the guide, thanks for the heads up.

[yucachann]

You don't really need to freeze in TD XH if you're at the bottom of the map. Even if your MPA is going full northen hero you might as well deal as much damage as possible rather than freezing mobs. Also Zanverse helps the MPA kill faster anyway so you don't really need to freeze the Golrahdas IMO

The Zanverse+VG/BA thing has been fixed for a while already before the CT+VG/BA exploit, so it's pretty useless. However, during Magatsu, after those calamity bow ETs you do pretty much more damage than everyone, if you put 20% of 11 people's damage in that way. I heard before they fixed it BA's explosion deal about 2M damage just by Zanverse alone...

As for Automate, personally if you have a ton of HP then it's okay not to invest 10SP on it. Doesn't mean I say you shouldn't have full automate though, it's still a useful skill. I have like 2100HP after Deband and it's pretty rare to go less than half the HP unless I'm just being careless, or on MH and want to just keep wand smacking (most common case is TD), or want to survive Anga's Cosmo Breaker and Resta everyone who didn't escape, or just keep supporting other players.

[Alandsmj]

Freezing is just a side effect of smacking, as long as you have Freeze affix on the weapon. That's why automate is useful since one can Zondeel and smack and deal massive damage and apply abnormal status at the same time, which saves a lot of unnecessary downtime, like, for charging techs or casting uncharged techs. I used Adaman as an example because the level 3 potential basically means about 30% freeze chance, which, coupled with multiple wand explosion (that should happen very often), can seriously chill a large group of bombs into the frozen animation. What level of freeze affix does not matter anyway.

[LonelyGaruga]

Or you can Zondeel and do even more damage by using Mangus Grin and actually kill the stuff you're freezing, with or without Automate. This freezing thing sounds really gimmicky. If the actual values for Restraining Crystal were known, then it'd be easier to understand the actual freeze rate, but I kinda doubt it's a 3000% modifier. Status affixes apply at a 1% per hit rate by default and proc for every enemy individually. If it was a 3000% modifier, then the assault rifles and twin machineguns would be ridiculous, with a 30% freeze rate for every single hit. Browsing around the JP wikis, the only estimates I found indicated the freeze rate is actually 3% (300% modifier). Which is simply unimpressive.

Also, Goldrahda only do about 200-250 points of damage on unboosted waves while MH and Deband Cut are up (paired with unit resistances), and even with a boost it should take a couple hits to actually trigger Automate Halfline, since you should have around 1100 HP minimum as Te/Hu. Pretty unlikely to actually need it unless you're deliberately trying to die.

[Triple_S]

If it was a 3000% modifier, then the assault rifles and twin machineguns would be ridiculous, with a 30% freeze rate for every single hit. Browsing around the JP wikis, the only estimates I found indicated the freeze rate is actually 3% (300% modifier). Which is simply unimpressive.

Could be like in PSO1 where certain weapons had reduced rates for the same special attacks. Mechguns hit three times per attack, so they had a lower chance of activating certain special attacks or a reduced effect when they did activate..

[Alandsmj]

I have owned Adaman and I can tell you even with wands' normal the freeze chance for lv 3 potential is not low. Definitely not 3%.

As for TMG,
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24174403
I don't think the freeze chance is only 3% on IF neither.


For rifles:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24180195
It might be an FI doing the double abnormal status chance thing but even with that chance cut by half it's far from being 3%. Seriously I'm not even sure where you got that 3% from.


And frozen bombs can be dispatched faster with a group. and you can throw in a Zanverse or two, instead of mergiverse, to steal damage.

My charachter has 1200+HP as a TE/Hu, Full Saki set and even then the automate triggers very frequently when the bug swarms around in TD when MH and Deband is on. That's the beauty of automate. You can just zondeel and smack and apply status no matter what these damn bugs do. Spin-around kick, high jumping, or denotation. One of these attacks might only chip away 200ish HP but when there is a large group of them doing all sorts of damage (happens very often with Warcry), automate is essential to keep the efficiency.

The same is true in UQ. Anga with enraged mammoth with kungfu monkey running all over the place is not rare.

But I've given enough praise to automate and if you still think it is not essential and does not make a day-and-night difference then by all means go without it.

[LonelyGaruga]

Could be like in PSO1 where certain weapons had reduced rates for the same special attacks. Mechguns hit three times per attack, so they had a lower chance of activating certain special attacks or a reduced effect when they did activate..

Nah, SEs from affixes apply at the same rate no matter what attack. This is confirmed by developers.

I have owned Adaman and I can tell you even with wands' normal the freeze chance for lv 3 potential is not low. Definitely not 3%.

And frozen bombs can be dispatched faster with a group. and you can throw in a Zanverse or two, instead of mergiverse, to steal damage.

My charachter has 1200+HP as a TE/Hu, Full Saki set and even then the automate triggers very frequently when the bug swarms around in TD when MH and Deband is on. That's the beauty of automate. You can just zondeel and smack and apply status no matter what these damn bugs do. Spin-around kick, high jumping, or denotation. One of these attacks might only chip away 200ish HP but when there is a large group of them doing all sorts of damage (happens very often with Warcry), automate is essential to keep the efficiency.

The same is true in UQ. Anga with enraged mammoth with kungfu monkey running all over the place is not rare.

But I've given enough praise to automate and if you still think it is not essential and does not make a day-and-night difference then by all means go without it.

All right then.

http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?Comme...83%90%E3%83%BC

Literally the only page where the freeze rate is discussed, and the only number thrown out is 3%. Either a 3% increase or the freeze rate becomes 3%. Looking it over again, I guess it's a 3% increase. Apparently the default SE rate is 2% and not 1% like I thought I remembered it being, so that's 5%. But that obviously doesn't match what the videos indicate with the Goldrahda. However, if you look at it again, you'll notice only the Goldrahda are frozen consistently. So I immediately thought to check the SE page again to see if it has any information about that, since it almost certainly confirms status resistances. And it does.

"武器の特殊能力による状態異常の付与成功確率は、Lv38ギルナッチに対して一律およそ2%と確認されて いる。
開発者へのインタビューによると、各状態異常の付与成功確率は特殊能力のLvに依存せず一定であるとのこと 。
ただし、エネミーは状態異常への耐性がそれぞれの種類で違うため、他のエネミーもこの数値とは 限らない。"

Machine translated:

"Grant success probability of state abnormality due to special abilities of weapons, has been confirmed to be approximately 2% uniformly to Lv38 Girunatchi.
According to interviews with the developers, grant success probability of each state abnormal thing is constant does not depend on the Lv of special abilities.
However, because the enemy resistance to abnormal state is different in each type, not necessarily the other enemy also this number."

Refining the machine translation:

"Grants success probability of state abnormality due to special abilities of weapons. Has been confirmed to be approximately 2% uniformly on level 38 Gilnach.
According to interviews with the developers, granted success probability of each state abnormality is constant, does not depend on the LV of special abilities.
However, because the enemy resistance to abnormal state is different in each type, other enemies do not necessarily have this number"

So yeah, I only need to take one look at how difficult the Kuklonahda was to freeze with those TMGs to immediately identify the problem here. Goldrahda are way more susceptible to freeze than the typical enemy. The SE really is 5% or whatever on other enemies.

So...why not just use ice techs then? They're several times more likely to freeze. Barta has a freeze rate of 45 with power craft, Nabarta can get a freeze rate of 47 (how high per hit is unidentifiable though), Rabarta is 35-39...I'm really not seeing why you should gimp your damage with a Mace of Adaman when you have better options for freezing and killing Goldrahda quickly. Especially in XH, since at least in SH the enemies would die fast enough that the damage loss won't be such a big deal, so Mace of Adaman would actually be better there.

Now, you're severely overstating how often a Goldrahda is going to land hits. You're supposed to be destroying the bomb in XH if it gets to a tower/wall. You can't hit that with a wand from the ground. So you have to jump. Goldrahda cannot hit you with a jumping attacks when you are around bomb range. They cannot detonate if their bomb is destroyed. And their spinning kick does ~200 damage unboosted. So what you're telling me is, in a swarm of Goldrahda, you consistently get hit by three or more of them. Which means that half of them are performing the same attack, in the same range, before getting frozen or having their bombs destroyed. Because, keep in mind, what you're telling me is that Mace of Adaman has a very high freeze rate, but you're still getting hit at a highly improbable frequency despite freezing the enemies quickly. This simply doesn't add up.

Not that I would even recommend using wands against Goldrahda as a Te/Hu. Partisans cover them far better. One Slide End breaks the bomb, while it would take two-three wand swings otherwise because of having to JA. The flinch from a broken bomb leaves the Goldrahda open for two-three more Slide Ends. Gear backed Slide Ends actually have more range than wands, so they can be used to hit more Goldrahda at once (at least for the first three in a row). Never mind Mangus Grin and ice techs being completely superior to Mace of Adaman here, partisans just plain outclass wands in this context. So no reason to use them here.

Now, I really don't understand why you seem to be under the impression that I am badmouthing Automate Halfline in any way. I even said that I personally use it and recommended using it. It just so happens that I neglected to make any builds that have Automate Halfline on them and said I would fix that (in fact, that's exactly what I'm going to be doing after this post*). But, fact is, not every single build needs Automate Halfline, regardless of whether you or I would recommend using it and recommend against not using it. Some people want to build things differently. I acknowledge that. That's why some builds are going to still not have Automate Halfline when I'm done fixing them. This guide isn't for saying "This is the only way to play the class", like I've been accused of doing earlier in the thread.

*Changed the 1st and 4th build listed to prioritize Automate Halfline, others are unaltered.

[Alandsmj]

. The SE really is 5% or whatever on other enemies.

Whatever you quoted only states that SE is at a fixed rate for certain enemies regardless of the SE level Affixes. It never mentions how potentials affect such rates.
In fact, people has already tested it on the so called "other enemies"
http://wandloverspso2.blog.jp/archives/1006408466.html

Considering that 63.54% freezing rate is the combination of wand strike and explosion, I'd say it roughly matches my own experience of 30% freezing rate by hit on multiple enemies. On the other hand, that's 12 enemies sucked in zondeel with a lot of explosions and 1 hit to each so 5% freeze chance per hit might or might not accumulate into an overall 63%.

As for why smack instead of casting techs, that's because TE/HU has a terrible TC multiplier and smacking and freezing instead does more damage than Zondeel+Offensive TC for TE/HU, especially when you can zondeel multiple enemies in and trigger a large number of explosions that apply the SE while doing damage better than TC. Dip in a Zanverse occasionally can also increase the total damage. Besides, as I mentioned, the SE rate for SE potentials (not SE affixes) really seem quite higher than your 5%.

Yeah, slide end may be neat, but if you can Zondeel/Freeze/Damage at the same time, that BO or Ra sitting with a Sat Aim will be much happier.

And yes, even though my TE/HU is able to freeze multiple walking bombs, there are always all sorts of situations. An unexpected boss rushing toward your back, multiple walking bombs denotes together before their back destroyed, infected aircrafts left unattended, three mammoth running towards you asking for love, etc. Things happen in pug. Automate covers these accidents most of the time in a very acceptable way. You don't have to buy car insurance, and many people don't, but since subbing HU providing a wonderful opportunity and effective way to get you that dear (and cheap, in a way) insurance, I see no reason one not grab it.

Not to mention that MH with Automate tree can be used with other classes, like, say rangers.

As for overstating the importance of automate. I have no doubt that a ranger can still function without WB, or a gunner without chain, or a BR without Rapid Shoot Mastery and/or Banish Arrow, or combat escape. But you don't say "no it's fine if you don't have these even they are an important part of your class features" to starters. Or do you really want to team up with a no WB RA saying "Hey, I read that guy's guides and he/she says it's definitely OK to NOT have WB as RA!" when you fully expect a RA WITH WB. It's not about you badmouth Automate because why then would you use it yourself. It's more about making sense of a guide, which is aimed at more inexperienced audience with this class. It's not "what I can do AFTER I'm familiar with the class" because they won't need to read most of this guide anyway if they are already an expert at it. It's more "what I can do with this class even if I have zero knowledge about it yet still don't drag the whole team“, in which case a "no you can still function if you have enough skills/mst/AC" statement makes no sense at all, or even confusing. I like see classes being built in "non traditional" ways, as I really enjoyed reading all those RA/FO, GU/FO, even GU/HU tank builds. But they should be in a separate place, at least no in the main texts, and explained in detail why they can still function and what caveats awaits.

[Dephinix]

Not to mention that MH with Automate tree can be used with other classes, like, say rangers.

I like see classes being built in "non traditional" ways, as I really enjoyed reading all those RA/FO, GU/FO, even GU/HU tank builds. But they should be in a separate place, at least no in the main texts, and explained in detail why they can still function and what caveats awaits.

Ummm...

But you don't say "no it's fine if you don't have these even they are an important part of your class features" to starters.

MH and Automate are expected to be had by everyone? I really really disagree with that. I hate automate more than anything myself.

From the old guide and this new guide(which cleared up A LOT of stuff, thank you very much), I've learned a lot. If there was ever any
doubt, knowledgeable people elaborated on my issue very well. A guide should be taken just as such, a guide. This isn't a copy paste
kind of deal, and it feels like you're really trying to make it that way. I agree in seeing automate being useful, and there being
plenty of points for it, but that should be left to the player to decide.