Whatever Happened to Double's Victims?

[B.T.]

First off, let me say, spoilers abound here. If you want to avoid EP 3 spoilers, stop reading right now.


So, Double eats people and things, right? They ate Elder, Luther, App, and even us. We got out, since apparently ARKS are subject to special exemptions that don't apply to DFs.

But here is the thing- since Luther survived inside Double (and even became nicer, albeit as a consequence of his totally giving up hope for all plans in the outside world), it stands to reason that the other DFs which Double ate survived within it as well.

But then Double...I'm not sure how to properly phrase it, I guess. Put simply, Double transferred it's being into you to create the PD. Then that essence got passed around between Matoi and Persona, but that is neither here nor there.

Here is what I am wondering; what happened to the DFs trapped inside Double? First off, I don't even understand how we end up fighting Double in the PD quest, when they had already essentially stopped existing as Double by that point. But, let's assume there is a reasonable explanation for that. We fight Double, beat them, fight the PD, beat it.

But, given how much time travel and timeline manipulation happens in the story, I think it is worth mentioning that, even if all DFs ceased to exist when PD was beaten, they still exist in the past.

Look, for all of us who played the whole story, I think we can agree that things get nonsensical fairly frequently (like when our shell-headed Friend Cabracan randomly started talking like a pirate, for instance). People we thought were dead and gone (Ulc, Zeno) have come back from the dead, although those were thanks to us. I am wondering if someone else (maybe an Ep4 villain) who can manipulate time may come forward in the future and rescue any of the DFs from Double. After all, Elder/Gettemhart's death was great for Shina getting the closure she needed, but from a storytelling perspective, it doesn't feel like Elder's character arc finished, even if Mel and Gettemhart got their closure. Furthermore, I am really confused as to how App turns up in TD4, if she was eaten by Double. Either it takes place in the past, which would be insane for an EQ and make the appearance of infected AIS seem odd (why would they only show up in the past?), or the EQ takes place in the present.

Well, in the present, we have already defeated Double and the PD. App should be dead, if she was trapped inside Double when we destroyed them. And yet, she is in TD4.

Obviously, all of this is just theoretical, but the appearance of App in TD4 makes me think she must have escaped Double. If she did, maybe the other DFs may have as well. So....What do you guys think?

[D-Inferno]

TD4 features Apprentice's Falz "body" (recall how Elder was sealed in the ruins pillar; but his "body" was in the giant tree). The part of Apprentice that Double ate doesn't appear to be involved with TD4, unless I'm mistaken.

[Maenara]

Due to Matoi shenanigans, Double actually only ate like, 10% of Apprentice. 5% got passed to Eucrita, and the other 85% was sealed in Lillipa.

Also, I have a theory that Episode 4's planet is the same one that Double ate.

[LonelyGaruga]

Gonna break everything down by paragraph to address things a bit better. By the way, you might want to edit your thread title to say *SPOILERS*, just to be safe. No harm in doing that after all.

So, Double eats people and things, right? They ate Elder, Luther, App, and even us. We got out, since apparently ARKS are subject to special exemptions that don't apply to DFs.

But here is the thing- since Luther survived inside Double (and even became nicer, albeit as a consequence of his totally giving up hope for all plans in the outside world), it stands to reason that the other DFs which Double ate survived within it as well.

Matoi and the player are specifically special exceptions because of their ability to absorb darkers. What [Double]'s innerverse does is it breaks things down into negative photons, which [Double] can then use to produce clones. Luther is immune to this process because he is a Photoner. His Dark Falz self was consumed in the process, leaving the Photoner Luther. [Elder] did not have a Photoner as a host, and [Apprentice] was siphoned off directly, so they did not exist within [Double].

But then Double...I'm not sure how to properly phrase it, I guess. Put simply, Double transferred it's being into you to create the PD. Then that essence got passed around between Matoi and Persona, but that is neither here nor there.

Here is what I am wondering; what happened to the DFs trapped inside Double? First off, I don't even understand how we end up fighting Double in the PD quest, when they had already essentially stopped existing as Double by that point. But, let's assume there is a reasonable explanation for that. We fight Double, beat them, fight the PD, beat it.

[Double] blasts the player with all of the negative photons that they had absorbed throughout the story in order to transform them into the Profound Darkness. Probably this was their innerverse as well, since this is the only time that [Apprentice]'s absorbed essence would come into contact with both the player and Matoi. Matoi had been purged of all of the darkers she absorbed back in 2-6 and only fought clones of [Apprentice] afterwards. What this means for Luther and Magatsu and the Kuronians is unclear as of right now.

As for fighting Dark Falz Double, the Profound Darkness creates a barrier guarded by mass produced clones of them to stall for time while it attempts to destroy Naberius to absorb it to return to full strength. The Profound Darkness can produce clones of the other Dark Falzes as well, as it does in 3-7.

But, given how much time travel and timeline manipulation happens in the story, I think it is worth mentioning that, even if all DFs ceased to exist when PD was beaten, they still exist in the past.

Outside of what happens to Matoi, which was instigated by Clarissa, all time travel is merely temporary and causes no displacement. No time travel can undo events that have already been shown to us within the story, as otherwise they would contradict what happened. Taking Zeno and Ulc's deaths for example, they never actually did happen because the player time travels to stop them. Time travel lets the player be in two places at once. I'm saying this just to establish the limitations on time travel within the story for future reference.
EDIT: Forgot about [Persona]. [Persona]'s methods of time travel are completely unknown currently so it isn't really clear how they fit into the grand scheme of things.

As for Dark Falz Apprentice, what happened to [Apprentice] was that Matoi sealed the majority of her inside of Lilipa. She then went on to attempt to possess Euclita, only for the rest of her to be consumed by [Double].

I might as well add, the Dark Falz bodies themselves are constructed from negative photons by a Dark Falz. Both [Elder] and [Loser] use negative photons gathered from their surroundings ([Elder] from his Falz Arms, [Loser] just absorbing the photons directly) to initiate the transformation. [Apprentice]'s sealed power is somewhat similar, in that it was inert inside of Lilipa up until the events of 3-8, which provided a spark for it to transform on its own. The body of a Dark Falz appears to be closer to something inherently inside of them under normal circumstances, but also requiring additional negative photons to be given form. It appears that the bodies may also have their own intelligence along the same level as a regular darker, as [Apprentice]'s sealed body takes initiative of its own accord despite being formless and without control under [Apprentice].

Actually, about what happened with Matoi, probably the most accurate thing that can be said is that what Matoi sealed was only the body. How much of that constitutes a Dark Falz is unclear. [Elder] and [Loser] both complain about their power being drained by the player, and this lost power is why [Double] produces faulty clones, but this lost power doesn't stop [Elder] from transforming into Dark Falz Elder, and [Apprentice] lacking her body doesn't stop [Double] from making essentially perfect clones of her.

[Renvalt]

Got a question for you Garuga: if PD's incessant death and rebirth via the whole time-travel shenanigans (invoking time travel to re-emerge at the point of their ascendance as PD), would that not also provide some degree of a logical explanation as to why we could fight Elder and Loser?

Like, for example, if all the Elders and Losers we've been fighting thus far (sans the Elder in XQ) are basically copies created by PD invoking Double's power, then would it explain how those moments effectively seem infinitely re-occurring?

Or is there another way we could plausibly explain how Elder and Loser keep resurfacing even after we've experienced those moments in the story?

[Hysteria1987]

*Puts on eerily lifelike mask of Garuga's face*I'd always figured beating a Falz the way we do just isn't a permanent thing- we wreck their bodies, but they escape, regain their powers and regenerate it. That, or they do the whole life/death/rebirth thingy that Falz did in the original PSO.

After the whole all-the-Falzes-got-eaten thing, and then Double getting rekt, time travel might be the only plausible explanation left. Double comes back with PD, and we all know what a mess those creepy kids can make with their doppleganger nonsense.*end Garuga-face*

[Saagonsa]

Or is there another way we could plausibly explain how Elder and Loser keep resurfacing even after we've experienced those moments in the story?

Those EQs canonically happen once and only once? I highly doubt ARKS could sustain despite the constant destruction of their ships and the takeover of their mothership at the rate the quests occur.

Oh, also in 2-5 Regius (or was it Maria?) mentions the war against Elder as a recent singular event.

[yoshiblue]

In a way, I guess you could also look at the matter board. It may be the reason you can still access the past even when you don't need to anymore. Would be funny if our characters have one of those days where they wake up repeating yesterday. On the other hand, you can undo mistakes. So that's cool.

[NoobSpectre]

Well, aside from Elder's defeat, there's no showing they shrugged off the body and come back repeatedly for true bodies. The EQ itself is actually a single event.

Dark Falz Elder Fight is only after 1-8, then 1-11 is the celebration of ARKS defeating Elder by... killing more natives and darkers. Maybe Elder goes Darker Den for duty and slips off to battle us in free field out of boredom.

Dark Falz Loser is after 2-5, then bam, Regius OHKO strike and eaten by Double, maybe that strike, powerful to kill as it is, only managed to weaken the bond of negative photon until Double absorbs it and seperates from normal Luther. (not proven theory)

Double is straightforward as well as PD. Apprentice is also mentioned above so I won't say any further (nothing to say further anyway).

The reason they keep coming back... gameplay reasons obviously. Unless SEGA goes sadistic and implement a event which is "You can only do it once, scheduled only on a specific date only, and good luck with the less than 1% RDR. or 100 times less to get what you really want. Rekt when you missed that 30 minutes/1hour" issues.

[Selphea]

I think the post-EQ cutscenes explain why each of them are able to come back

Elder - "Lol that was fun, as long as I have my body, I can keep coming back ufufufu"
Loser - Double made a bunch of dupes using CheatEngine. Mothership is probably also a dupe.
Elder/Loser Post-Double - Double nommed both and duped both.
PD - It escapes to do the same thing it does every night Pinky.

Although canonically it probably happens only once, kind of like how the Lich King dies only once.