America is Coming to Phantasy Star Online 2 this August :)

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I've ranted about the loss of pso2's identity since EP3 when we were drowning in collabs for months straight. I just gave up talking about it.

I've tried to ignore the elephant in the room that is ep4 story and setting with the 'I don't play for story' mantra, but I'd be lying if I said the mere existence of this contrived as all hell story so disconnected on the surface from everything else in the past few years didn't bother me.

Most of us see PSO2 as another RPG with it's own story and universe like any other RPG... at least until ep4. The premise alone of the latest matter board, and anime tie-in kills alot of immersion instantly because of its self-reference which borders on parody of it being a game. I hate that shit so much.

What little immersion I coulda've gotten from this game's RPG elements has been killed off from the story almost breaking its own 4th wall.

[BIG OLAF]

I've ranted about the loss of pso2's identity since EP3 when we were drowning in collabs for months straight. I just gave up talking about it.

I've tried to ignore the elephant in the room that is ep4 story and setting with the 'I don't play for story' mantra, but I'd be lying if I said the mere existence of this contrived as all hell story so disconnected on the surface from everything else in the past few years didn't bother me.

Most of us see PSO2 as another RPG with it's own story and universe like any other RPG... at least until ep4. The premise alone of the latest matter board, and anime tie-in kills alot of immersion instantly because of its self-reference which borders on parody of it being a game. I hate that shit so much.

What little immersion I coulda've gotten from this game's RPG elements has been killed off from the story almost breaking its own 4th wall.

I 1000% agree with your and TaigaUC's posts.

For me, I never played PSO2 for the story, because I thought the story was total garbage from day 1. But, the story is only a part of a games identity, and everything else kept me playing. However, the story isn't the only thing that suffers from SEGAs jumped-shark bullshit "content," sadly - everything does. The entire game has more or less been going down in flames since Harukotan was introduced (even though those areas and enemies aren't that ridiculous, especially since the classic Phantasy Star games had humanoid races capable of speech, etc.), but this newfangled anime collab that is Episode 4 has put the final nails in the coffin, in my opinion.

Once again, sorry, but if you think that running around in 'Neu Tokyo' or 'Futuristic Las Vegas' = Phantasy Star, then I've no words for you. Go back and play some old PS titles, and I mean really play them - immerse yourself in the story, the setting, the lore, all that. Then go back and play PSO2, and if you aren't disgusted with it, then there's no helping you.

[TaigaUC]

Tons of people have been saying from day one that PSO2 has a serious lack of world sense.
JP reviews on 4gamer stated that over and over. 4 years, and SEGA has proved they do not give a damn about that.
Let's not forget the scenario writer telling us that we must have mental issues if we don't like his shit, and that we "don't have to do it".
Bullshit. It's unavoidable and intertwined with the rest of the game.

One of my female JP friends really likes fantasy stuff. Used to play PSO2, but lost interest.
She really dislikes the whole Tokyo and Vegas thing. That isn't the only reason she quit though.
She said they added too many new things that she can't keep up with. She was already always worried about dragging down multis.
That's another topic, though.

I show PSO2 stuff to a friend from Canada who doesn't play. He's very disgusted by how much of a mish-mash mess PSO2 is.
He said he would never play such a game.

Another friend from Mexico (who does play but essentially quit a while ago) often complains about how PSO2 just copies everything else and has no self.
Sure, PSO was originally heavily influenced by Star Wars, but it had its own thing going.
PSO2 just feels like SEGA hooks onto whatever the hell is the current "in" thing that they believe will hook new players for a few moments.

Some of us were pretty huge fans of PSO1, by the way.
I think it's bad enough PSO2 is just going off on random tangents, but it's doubly bad that they aren't even respecting the Phantasy Star franchise.

[Altiea]

I 1000% agree with your and TaigaUC's posts.

For me, I never played PSO2 for the story, because I thought the story was total garbage from day 1. But, the story is only a part of a games identity, and everything else kept me playing. However, the story isn't the only thing that suffers from SEGAs jumped-shark bullshit "content," sadly - everything does. The entire game has more or less been going down in flames since Harukotan was introduced (even though those areas and enemies aren't that ridiculous, especially since the classic Phantasy Star games had humanoid races capable of speech, etc.), but this newfangled anime collab that is Episode 4 has put the final nails in the coffin, in my opinion.

Once again, sorry, but if you think that running around in 'Neu Tokyo' or 'Futuristic Las Vegas' = Phantasy Star, then I've no words for you. Go back and play some old PS titles, and I mean really play them - immerse yourself in the story, the setting, the lore, all that. Then go back and play PSO2, and if you aren't disgusted with it, then there's no helping you.

Everyone has their own opinion. Clearly, you dislike Earth in Phantasy Star. Does that mean others will? No. Does that mean that if others follow your steps and go and play the other Phantasy Stars, they will hate Earth like you do? No. Everyone has their own pre-defined concept of what makes Phantasy Star "Phantasy Star" based on where they started and what they've played, which means there are people who won't see it from your angle, and just because they like Earth, you shouldn't deem them a lost cause.

P.S.: I already took your advice long ago and played Zero and IV after starting PSO2. I still don't hate Earth.

[TaigaUC]

I don't have a problem with Earth being in Phantasy Star. There are a ton of ways that could have been done well.
I have a problem with them making a Phantasy Star sequel revolve around a parallel post-modern world where PSO2 is an online game played by high school students.
If they wanted to make Sword Art Online, they could have made a new franchise instead of bastardizing Phantasy Star.
And I was only a fan of PSO1, not even the other games. i can only imagine how disappointed and disgusted true Phantasy Star series fans must be.

It's like if Dot Hack suddenly became entirely about military world wars in the real world, instead of the whole stuck in an online game thing.
Very much a 180 of the original content. In that case, they should just make a new franchise.

I'm generally not a fan of bastarding franchises.
Resident Evil 4-7 = no longer survival horror, trying to be Call of Duty and now P.T.
Dead Rising 3 = trying to be Call of Duty.
Those are just two examples. Why don't they just make new IPs?
If a game is really that good, people won't care about the IP name.
Look at Overwatch, TERA, Blade and Soul, etc. Those are all new IPs, and they are all pretty damn popular.

Another good example is Berserk. A friend and I recently got around to reading through the manga.
The later parts of Berserk are nothing like the beginning. It went from very Dark Fantasy to High Fantasy, and it feels like the story has completely lost its direction.
It doesn't even seem to take itself seriously anymore, and the author likes Idolmaster so much that he keeps adding new lolis.
If he wants to draw lolis, why doesn't he just make a new manga about lolis instead of sending Berserk in some weird direction?

[Altiea]

Do you think that if there were a much better explanation for why we are at Earth, we would be more tolerant of it?

[TaigaUC]

Well, like I said, the fact that they're blatantly ripping off Sword Art Online is irritating.
A game series with a long history, suddenly referring to itself, in its own canon, as a game. Makes me want to facepalm.
No respect for the original franchise, no respect for themselves.
In general, it feels like current SEGA does not have much capacity to make anything unique or fresh.
It's just copy this, copy that. PSO2 has no soul.

Imagine if Street Fighter V added a character who fights by playing SFV on their phone.
It's like that.

I don't know the Phantasy Star history well enough to write a relevant explanation for why Earth is there.
Maybe something like a space-time distortion, sort of like in R-Type Final.
There's this awesome twist in R-Type Final, even though it's just a side scrolling shoot'em up.

Spoiler!

The general plot of R-Type is that an alien lifeform called the Bydo invades Earth.
In R-Type final, you're the pilot of prototype spaceships made using technology recovered from the Bydo.
The Bydo are bizarre twisted grotesque creatures that could be described as being borne from the darkest parts of the human soul.
I remember hearing such a description.

Anyway, near the end of R-Type Final, there is a boss that, if you fulfill certain requirements, it can suck you into a black hole.
You are then transformed into a Bydo version of your ship and sent through a wormhole back to the start of the game, where you attack Earth.
The final boss of that route is yourself before you became possessed by the Bydo.
It's implied that the Bydo really did originate from humans, in some kind of weird space-time distortion thing.
Or at least, that's my understanding of it. It's kinda disturbing, but also somewhat unique and interesting.

Edit: One more thing I forgot! You can actually see your Bydo self flying by, far off in the background of the first stage!
Of course, you won't know what it is until you experience that space-time distortion route.

SEGA could probably have done something like the above to explain how Darkers originated from Earth in the past.
And that Earth was able to become technologically advanced because of a space-time distortion where future Earth tech was sent to past Earth.

Another interesting example I recall is Martian Successor Nadesico. That had a huge twist too.

Spoiler!

Basically, Earth is fighting against aliens from Jupiter. But it turns out Jupiter was actually a space colony of Earth.
I forget the details, but something went wrong during the colony process.
The Earth government wanted to cover up and deny the existence of the Jupiter space colony, so they branded them as "aliens" and tried to wipe them out.
Despite the fact that they are all still regular humans. So what seemed like a space war between human and alien was really just human vs human.
SEGA could probably have done something similar to that in PSO2.

The above are both pretty old. Early 2000s or so.

I know that my suggestions are still referencing other media.
But I think there's a difference between being a wannabe rip-off trying to cash in on a popular franchise, and being inspired to create something similar.
It's usually obvious which it is, depending on how well it's done. PSO2 generally does not feel like it's done well. That's why so many people complain about it.
Everything is inspired by something else, anyway.

Like I was saying about bastardizing IPs... a lot of those popular franchises were great because they were originally more unique, doing their own thing.
When they started trying to mimic other popular stuff, they went to shit. And because they keep trying to make sequels, they chain themselves down.

It's sort of like how Japan is good at making Japanese stuff, but lately they've been trying to appeal to Western markets, and that usually ends up sucking.
They are better off just making their own stuff, without trying to be something else.
I mean, people get into Japanese-style media for what it is. They don't look to Japan to fulfill their Western media interests.

Same thing goes for SEGA trying to be everything. Collaborations can be fun, but if people want Sword Art Online, they will just go to Sword Art Online.
They don't go to Phantasy Star looking to experience Sword Art Online.
Phantasy Star can never top Sword Art Online because it's trying to BE Sword Art Online, while Sword Art Online is just being itself.
Meanwhile, Phantasy Star just forgot itself. It's sad.

By the way, I know almost nothing about Sword Art Online. Too lazy to watch it.
I've just heard other people saying PSO2 is copying SAO, and considering how popular SAO is, it makes sense.

[MightyHarken]

Well, like I said, the fact that they're blatantly ripping off Sword Art Online is irritating.
No respect for the original franchise, no respect for themselves.
In general, it feels like current SEGA does not have much capacity to make anything unique or fresh.
It's just copy this, copy that. PSO2 has no soul.

I don't know the Phantasy Star history well enough to write a relevant explanation for why Earth is there.
Maybe something like a space-time distortion, sort of like in R-Type Final.
There's this awesome twist in R-Type Final, even though it's just a side scrolling shoot'em up.

Spoiler!

The general plot of R-Type is that an alien lifeform called the Bydo invades Earth.
In R-Type final, you're the pilot of prototype spaceships made using technology recovered from the Bydo.
The Bydo are bizarre twisted grotesque creatures that could be described as being borne from the darkest parts of the human soul.
I remember hearing such a description.

Anyway, near the end of R-Type Final, there is a boss that can suck you into a black hole, and it also transforms you into a Bydo version of your ship.
Then you are sent through a wormhole back to the start of the game, where you shoot all the other pilots and the final boss is yourself before you became possessed by the Bydo.
It's implied that the Bydo really did originate from humans, in some kind of weird space-time distortion thing.
Or at least, that's my understanding of it. It's kinda disturbing, but also somewhat unique and interesting.
Oh, and note that the whole getting sucked in and going back to the past is an optional route. So that's interesting too.

SEGA could probably have done something like the above to explain how Darkers originated from Earth in the past.
And that Earth was able to become technologically advanced because of a space-time distortion where future Earth tech was sent to past Earth.

Another interesting example I recall is Martian Successor Nadesico. That had a huge twist too.

Spoiler!

Basically, Earth is fighting against aliens from Jupiter. But it turns out Jupiter was actually a space colony of Earth.
I forget the details, but something went wrong during the colony process
The Earth government wanted to cover up and deny the existence of the Jupiter space colony, so they branded them as "aliens" and tried to wipe them out.
Despite the fact that they are all still regular humans. So what seemed like a space war between human and alien was really just human vs human.
SEGA could probably have done something similar to that in PSO2.

The above are both pretty old. Early 2000s or so.

I know that my suggestions are still referencing other media.
But I think there's a difference between being a wannabe rip-off trying to cash in on a popular franchise, and being inspired to create something similar.
It's usually obvious which it is, depending on how well it's done. PSO2 generally does not feel like it's done well. That's why so many people complain about it.
Everything is inspired by something else, anyway.

Like I was saying about bastardizing IPs... a lot of those popular franchises were great because they were originally more unique, doing their own thing.
When they started trying to mimic other popular stuff, they went to shit. And because they keep trying to make sequels, they chain themselves down.

It's sort of like how Japan is good at making Japanese stuff, but lately they've been trying to appeal to Western markets, and that usually ends up sucking.
They are better off just making their own stuff, without trying to be something else.
I mean, people get into Japanese-style media for what it is. They don't look to Japan to fulfill their Western media interests.

Same thing goes for SEGA trying to be everything. Collaborations can be fun, but if people want Sword Art Online, they will just go to Sword Art Online.
They don't go to Phantasy Star looking to experience Sword Art Online.
Phantasy Star can never top Sword Art Online because it's trying to BE Sword Art Online, while Sword Art Online is just being itself.
Meanwhile, Phantasy Star just forgot itself. It's sad.

By the way, I know almost nothing about Sword Art Online. Too lazy to watch it.
I've just heard other people saying PSO2 is copying SAO, and considering how popular SAO is, it makes sense.

I have to agree with the whole Berserk thing.

Also I was telling a friend of what would have been a MUCH BETTER ep4. Basically it goes like this: "An arks ship goes to explore an unknown planet but ends up being taken by some dark force, now it's up to us in our own ship to investigate the whereabouts and find out what happened in that planet". PSO1 all over again, but would have been a much better story to go with instead of the crap we have to deal with now.

[TaigaUC]

PSO1 episode 1 had this amazing atmosphere of mystery to it. Everyone looked forward to a bright future, they expected to have a happy colony and all that.
But what happened? Where did everyone go? You could see evidence of their existence scattered here and there.
And you got to find out little by little as to what was really going on, and how it wasn't just about colonizing but also experimentation and so on.
PSO2 sort of tries to do this, in a really not very interesting way. Unlike PSO1, you no longer fulfill various requests that further the story.
You don't go on missions with objectives. It's just go find Darkers, kill them. Zzzz.

PSO2's story is like... well, Darkers attacking the universe. We gotta kill them.
But actually we're just parts of an experiment so that a guy can merge with his beloved omnipotent girl.
Meanwhile, Darkness wants to be revived and needs a host. So we gotta eat all the other hosts to revive Darkness. Actually, we ARE the Darkness host. And stuff.
But wait, this is actually all just a game played by an alternate world where a bunch of assholes think they're elite chosen and cause trouble.
Now we have to travel around Earth's countries fighting possessed amalgamations of famous pop culture icons!

...what?

Note that I haven't studied the PSO2 story in detail because i lost interest, so I probably made it sound even crappier than it is.
I also didn't play PSO1 past episode 1, so I don't know if it got worse or not. I didn't like PSU's story, though. From what I understood of it.

Again, I want to emphasize... if they wanted to add silly stuff, then that's fine. You know, for fun.
But when they just throw out everything that made Phantasy Star what it is, and replace it with something else... that's not cool.
At the very least, give people an option.

Even hosts on the livestream have sometimes said stuff like, "uhh... what happened to Phantasy Star's sense of world?"
I am not kidding. I clearly recall Atsuko Enomoto saying that. I forget what it was in reaction to. Possibly episode 4 cutscenes.
And Ichitaro was super harsh on that abomination that is Sonic Nyau. He was like, "what the hell is the design team thinking?"
Sakai had to say "hey, hey now..." to get him to stop bashing it.

Sega was involved in the production of Kancolle Arcade, I'm not even sure why the hell they didn't take the chance and make a collab out of itinstead of relying on Lagassmal Faggotship Yamete, where the Yamete weapons themselves would be redundent later on. Unless they're planning to make all weapons camo-able soon.

That confuses me too. And the Yamato weapons have ass latents.
There was discussion on the JP swiki that if you get caught using a Yamato weapon people immediately know you are trash.
SEGA knew all the new players and Kancolle fans would aim for those weapons. And they still made them crap.
That's just one example of them intentionally creating huge gaps for no good reason.

[Altiea]

People who compare PSO2 to SAO have little to no idea of what they're talking about. The concepts aren't even remotely the same; SAO involves high school kids being trapped in a video game with their real lives at risk. PSO2 involves high school kids finding out that their "video game" actually connects to an alternate dimension, then said inhabitants of alternate dimension coming to Earth to help the high school kids protect Earth. The only thing they share in common is that they both involve video games.