People who roll high and move on first turn

[RiskBreaker]

On 2004-03-29 06:42, Shimarisu wrote:
Typical fucking Americans, rush the opponent on their first turn and then try to justify it.

Wanna tell me why I never see it on Mintaka?

Using a FO ain't a poor deck strategy. I'll use a FO if I want, OK? As a matter of fact I can't USE my best deck. Why? Cause I had to remake my char, thanks to all the abuse I got off RUDE WESTERN PLAYERS. It had Penetration in it, an S card I won't see til level 50 or so.

I'm beginning to hate the human race thanks to this game. Or rather, half of it.

- Shimarisu

A. I'm from the UK matey, England to be precise. See, its on the left hand side.

B. Chill out for gods sake, its a game. If your life depended on this, I'd understand you griping, it doesn't.

C. Speaking of life. Lesson No.1 in the big fat book of life is that ITS UNFAIR.

D. I'm so fed up with people crying about, this is unfair, that is unfair when you are blatantly not prepared to adapt.

Think about it, if you used your favourite deck less and used a deck better suited for these encounters. Then you would find that most battles with your favourite deck weren't against players that rush you. And those battles with the better suited deck were more often won.

E. You are playing a game about battles. Last time I checked there hasn't been a fair battle.

F. Grow up.

[Armok]

Sorry but its tactically stupid to sit back on a 6/6 roll against an opponent. Espically if they are a Force who need a couple of turns to build up their stenght.

Now if this opponent had not rushed you and stood his ground with his weopon is it likely that you would have picked them off once you where up to full power while their saber weopon was out of range.

You only get a good start every so often you may as well get a win from it.

[Shimarisu]

Actually, Americans used to rush me on my other char too. It was a Hunter deck.

And no, I'll never grow up, thanks for the advice, tell it to somebody without permanent brain damage.

And also, having a fair chance is important to me. I don't care if it's just a game. I play fair. On the Japanese ships barely anyone ever moves until both players are kitted out. Where is the fun in winning cause you rolled a lucky 6 6 on your first go? Oh. please. And yeap, if you get first turn, good dice and hand and rush a FO, it usually DOES guarantee a win. Your dice guaranteed the win, not your skill. So you suck, and don't blame people for saying so. Because on the US ships, they will. And I will anyway, actually yeah, play like this and I suicide on you. Because finding another tourney is more important than battling an ass who doesn't follow the unspoken etiquette in place ONLY on the Japanese ships.

Things I observe on Japanese ships:

1. Nobody rushes on first turn just cause they threw jammy dice. Repeat: NOBODY. NOBODY ever did it in 3 months of play. Yet it happens extremely often on Vega.

2. Far less people use dual Arkz teams, it'a established that they are easier to win with.

3. Nobody ever DCs on you.

4. FAR less people quit a tourney. I'M SICK OF ENTERING TOURNEYS ON US SHIPS AND SEEING THAT EVERYBODY QUIT!

5. Numbering your points like you are a schoolteacher smacks of sanctimony.

Arislan won't be seeing the rudeness on the US ships cause AFAIK, he steers clear of them. I don't, I don't keep Japanese sleep time like him. I play when and where a tourney is available.

- Shimarisu

[decswxaqz]

1. Nobody rushes on first turn just cause they threw jammy dice. Repeat: NOBODY. NOBODY ever did it in 3 months of play. Yet it happens extremely often on Vega.

Can you blame US/EU people for something that is 'built' in so to speak. We all know of the JP's percieved (true?) shyness and unwilling to brake away from the norm. Aren't we just doing what EU/US people do naturally. Can you call a whole race for evolution?
After all, this shyness is part of JP's economic recession is the past decade. Not willing to take risks and such forth. But that's totally off topic.

You've not played against the JP I have then =/

2. Far less people use dual Arkz teams, it'a established that they are easier to win with.

The point of Arkz is to dual team. That's why they have cards with "Group" and "Leader". That's ST's fault, not the people using the game how it was intended.

3. Nobody ever DCs on you.

So you lose a hundered meseta or so? They have a DC to their name which is efectively a black mark. Would you play against someone with countless DCs?

4. FAR less people quit a tourney. I'M SICK OF ENTERING TOURNEYS ON US SHIPS AND SEEING THAT EVERYBODY QUIT!

Nothing to do with the FSODing by BillyJoe (whoever and company)??? People are playing, returning to the lobby and being FSODed. This only happens to US people, not JP so there is a problem there.

There are plenty of Japanese awake at UK time. Even midnight (about 08:00 JP time), there are never less than 200 people on the popular ships.

[RiskBreaker]

On 2004-03-29 07:07, Shimarisu wrote:
Actually, Americans used to rush me on my other char too. It was a Hunter deck.

And no, I'll never grow up, thanks for the advice, tell it to somebody without permanent brain damage.

And also, having a fair chance is important to me. I don't care if it's just a game. I play fair. On the Japanese ships barely anyone ever moves until both players are kitted out. Where is the fun in winning cause you rolled a lucky 6 6 on your first go? Oh. please. And yeap, if you get first turn, good dice and hand and rush a FO, it usually DOES guarantee a win. Your dice guaranteed the win, not your skill. So you suck, and don't blame people for saying so. Because on the US ships, they will. And I will anyway, actually yeah, play like this and I suicide on you. Because finding another tourney is more important than battling an ass who doesn't follow the unspoken etiquette in place ONLY on the Japanese ships.

Things I observe on Japanese ships:

1. Nobody rushes on first turn just cause they threw jammy dice. Repeat: NOBODY. NOBODY ever did it in 3 months of play. Yet it happens extremely often on Vega.

2. Far less people use dual Arkz teams, it'a established that they are easier to win with.

3. Nobody ever DCs on you.

4. FAR less people quit a tourney. I'M SICK OF ENTERING TOURNEYS ON US SHIPS AND SEEING THAT EVERYBODY QUIT!

5. Numbering your points like you are a schoolteacher smacks of sanctimony.

Arislan won't be seeing the rudeness on the US ships cause AFAIK, he steers clear of them. I don't, I don't keep Japanese sleep time like him. I play when and where a tourney is available.

- Shimarisu

But you are seeking to be fair in game where the game is completely based towards advantage and luck.

A game where two people at the same level can have completely different decks. A game where dice roll can be just as important as tactics.

Now if you were telling me both you and your opponent were using the default Break deck (or decks of exactly the same makeup). With dice rolls set to a specific number. Then you would be playing a balanced game.

As is, your beloved FOmar deck is likely designed to defeat your opponent in the best way possible. And you depend upon random high dice rolls in order to make the most out of your cards.

You may both be courteous for the first turn, but then what. What when your oppoenent rolls below 3 for the rest of the match, what when your opponent just can't produce the CARD's he or she needs? Where's your fairness now? Do you wait around until they are ready again? Or just procede to win the game with your advantage.

I still put it to you that your stance of being unprepared to adapt your deck or change characters to suit potential situations means you get whatever is coming to you.

I saw an article in a games magazine recently which was looking at the difference's between Western and Eastern gamers recently. It went on to explain that Eastern gamers playing VF4e were concerned about the actual playing experience. If won player had an advantage over another health wise, the other player would incur equal damage before the fight ensued anew. Whereas western gamers are all about the victory, an advantage presented was an advantage taken.

Maybe that explains the two sides of the game you encounter. Looking at how western society has acted lately I would agree that the approach to gaming above represents us quite accurately. At the same time I wouldn't tar all western gamers with the same brush and equally eastern gamers. Western gamers are as capable of honorable gameplay as eastern though maybe not in the same numbers.

I still return to my earlier point, moreso in the light of the above that if you are unwilling to adapt then you are as bad as the players that I encounter who suicide if the game isn't going the right way for them. If there are truely divisions in the gaming styles between east and west, then to not adapt when crossing the divide is foolish. And worse still is to gripe about it.

Personally I like both gaming styles and have done for many years, sometimes I am all about the victory and sometimes I'm just interested in the actual playing of the game. I guess it changes depending on whom I'm playing and what game I'm playing.

I'm afraid we share completely different views on this, whereas you seek to aspire for a fair game, I believe that in such games are unfair in their anture and construction and advantages should be played for and taken, as I would do were I commanding the battle for real.

But at least I now know not to rush forwards on Japanese ships

And I apologise for sounding condescending earlier.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RiskBreaker on 2004-03-29 07:36 ]</font>

[Devin]

If you get fsod'd you can just get back online and you'll still be entered.

I've never really thought twice about running forward on the first turn, although I normally don't. After reading this, I agree that it gives the player an unfair advantage to move forward on first turn, and I won't be doing it...although the majority of US player will -_-;

[Zaneatron]

when shim says people quit tournaments, she means that when she joins them, other players quit, because she has a high level char. not because of FSOD or anything, because she joined up.

[Sharkyland]

Uh... depending on my hand and what I am using, I sometimes run forward.

If I play as Hunters...
- Well, considering I only use Saladgun and Sil'fer, I need to be close to my opponent as possible if I want to attack, and I seriously don't want to be stuck in the backfield if Im playing against an arks who will put monsters in front of me (move before act other than vice versa)... though it is very rare to see me do this since I would like to have SOMETHING equip before I go and run in there, but when you are fighting Hunters with guns abilities, man, I dont want to be sitting duck... 'cause they might have 'snipe' if they win the phase turn. Though its rather rare I get 6 6... (though I hate that rock strategy stage when I fight an Arkz) I don't have any good cards yet to actually think of a new strategy... as the old saying goes, whatever works, works...

If I play as Arkz...
- I only use Reiz, Crienu, Break, and Endu... Endu is really tempting to move forward cause of 'hit everything' slash, but usually I like to stay back... way back.

---

Though I see what you are saying about not moving foward. I've actually had my crappy rolls while people get big dice. (When playing offline story mode, I'm VERY happy when I roll a 6 6... but its still good if I roll a ATK 5. But I usually roll less and most of the time, the computer rolls between 3-6) *sigh*

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sharkyland on 2004-03-29 08:22 ]</font>

[tortimer]

I can't believe some of you are complaining about moving forward on the first roll. People complain about making cheap decks and now running forward. That's just part of the game. Running forward doesn't really help on most decks because you can usually only run forward maybe 2 spaces. If you run forward more then that (only a few SC can) you haven't equiped a high powered weapon or creature so it wouldn't really matter. Most maps are large enough the running forward 1 or 2 spaces doesn't help that much. I play very aggressive and move forward if I have any atk points left. It has cost me just as many times as it has helped me. Just quit whinning and play the game. I hate when play real soft and move back in forth on the back line. Sort of like they are trying to run the time out and get all their best stuff equiped. I'm not complaing about this stradegy but in a timed game makes it hard for my decks to win. If I just stay back and not move on the first roll (if I have any points left) it just gives them to big of an advantage getting all their best stuff equiped. I played MTG for years and really loved it but most of my friends quit. I quit playing MTG because I couldn't find anyone to play. In all the years playing MTG I never heard anybody complaining about game stradegy's. They just found a way to counter it. IMO that is what makes CCG's so much fun.

[Sharkyland]

On 2004-03-29 08:20, tortimer wrote:
I can't believe some of you are complaining about moving forward on the first roll. People complain about making cheap decks and now running forward. That's just part of the game. Running forward doesn't really help on most decks because you can usually only run forward maybe 2 spaces. If you run forward more then that (only a few SC can) you haven't equiped a high powered weapon or creature so it wouldn't really matter. Most maps are large enough the running forward 1 or 2 spaces doesn't help that much. I play very aggressive and move forward if I have any atk points left. It has cost me just as many times as it has helped me. Just quit whinning and play the game. I hate when play real soft and move back in forth on the back line. Sort of like they are trying to run the time out and get all their best stuff equiped. I'm not complaing about this stradegy but in a timed game makes it hard for my decks to win. If I just stay back and not move on the first roll (if I have any points left) it just gives them to big of an advantage getting all their best stuff equiped. I played MTG for years and really loved it but most of my friends quit. I quit playing MTG because I couldn't find anyone to play. In all the years playing MTG I never heard anybody complaining about game stradegy's. They just found a way to counter it. IMO that is what makes CCG's so much fun.

Yeah, I have to agree with you on about time on that one...