xbox 360 fees?

[Saner]

well Dreamcast PSO was originally a few months online plan, but it servers were still up 5-7 years after that because it was so successful. and that's just with 11 dungeons.


there will be new content because they said PSU will have exclusive weapons/missions, etc. online.

who knows maybe it's already on the disk but in any case there will be years of fun to be had as long as you pay attention to the present instead of thinking about the future, otherwise you might as well count the days before humanity becomes inevitably extinct, if you're that pessimistic.

[Ether]

On 2006-08-14 23:54, Saner wrote:
and that's just with 11 dungeons.

There aren't even that many stages in Blue Burst...

[Saner]

I mean forest 1,2 cave 1,2,3 mines 1,23 ruins 1,2,3

before the sequels.

[Ether]

There is no mines 3, it adds up to 10, you still fail

Oh and no one considers those seperate dungeons

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ether on 2006-08-15 00:24 ]</font>

[Saner]

oh whoops.

oh come on just because you can directly warp from like Forest 1 to Forest 2 doesn't mean they are not 2 dungeons.

they are 2 different maps that are loaded independantly. they are 2 dungeons despite sharing the same location name.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saner on 2006-08-15 00:26 ]</font>

[Crispin]

On 2006-08-14 22:52, Kyuu wrote:
You missed the point of the comparison. You stated that charging monthly fees is bad for Sega because it drives customers away. The point of the WoW example was to demonstrate that this is, in fact, not the case. I've not heard of very many people who were on the fence about whether or not to start playing an MMO, and the deciding factor was the monthly fee. Generally, if a person is interested enough, they'll pay the monthly fee.

In any case, ten dollars a month isn't something to cry over. If you feel you aren't going to be playing enough for the month to make the most of your ten whole freaking dollars, then don't pay it. I actually saved a lot money while playing WoW, because spending 15 dollars a month was a lot less than I'd normally have spent on buying games to keep me occupied. A game like WoW, or PSU, can occupy enough of your time that you don't have time for other games, and so you save the money that you'd otherwise have spent.

You seem to have missed the point by ignoring the rest of his post - any comparison of subscription online games using World of Warcraft immediately falls flat on its face when you consider that it's very much of a special case due to its fanbase and brand name. It controls over half the market share of current online subscription based games, so any comparison can't really make a direct translation. WoW is a singular, unique phenomenon. The name brand recognition and hype pushed it far enough that it's considered a social activity by the mainstream, and not just MMO players. EverQuest does not have that effect. FFXI does not have that effect. PSU will not have that effect. People will be driven away by the monthly fee.

While having a monthly fee could pour buckets of money onto your doorstep, with the current market saturation it's far more likely that you'll have poor initial sales and make just enough money to recoup the development and server costs. Hell, you just exemplified this point in the second part of your post; for a monstrously huge part of the gaming populace, that "other game" that people don't have time for is going to be PSU, in favor of WoW.

Contrary to what some people would have you believe, a fee is by no means necessary to recoup the monthly costs of server upkeep and development costs when you pull in enough initial purchasers. As Cross mentioned, here's where Guild Wars comes in. At its core, it shares a lot of structural similarities to the online Phantasy Star games, while being able to bring in much more new content compared to all the various iterations of PSO, all while requiring no fee outside of the initial purchase. So far, with no initial brand-name recognition, they've managed to pull in sales of two million.

Now, some of you are going to come up and say "Well, Guild Wars has expansions that come out every six months, and that pays for the servers!" Well, the point that's being made is that there are other business models out there, and the one ArenaNet employs can not only be beneficial to the developer, but much moreso to the consumer than a monthly fee would be. Not just in the short-sighted "I'm saving $15 per month!" way that you're only capable of grasping right now (By no means an insult). Here's some food for thought:

With a monthly fee, you're more or less paying $10 or whatever per month, regardless of how much or how little you play. Sure, that additional fee may be some great value to the guy who sees online gaming as his life, but it doesn't match up for everyone, like, say, the guy who only has around an hour or three to play games per week. By only having an initial, upfront cost, you're not pressured into playing as much as you can to get additional value out of your dollar.

And now for the extra content, one of the common excuses for the monthly fee. While you're paying $10 a month for this mystery content, you have no guarantee as to its quality or if it's even something you'd bother with. Hell, the history of "extra content" with the PSO games has been highly suspect, typically consisting of stuff already on the disc that's just being unlocked - which is, admittedly, an inherent flaw that comes with not having a data drive of some sort to save new data. Here comes Guild Wars' business model, where new content comes in every few months to get the revenue stream going - the difference being that you have an idea of what the new content is, and if you don't like it you can tell the developer to bugger off, and continue playing the game you like without having to pay anything extra. This gives a massive advantage to the playerbase, because it gives the developers incentive to make something they feel the players will want to pay money for, rather than the same rehashes we've been getting with PSO over and over through the years. This can also be a huge boon for a console game such as PSU, since an expansion every few months sidesteps that problem with not being able to save data almost completely. You've just paid another $50-$60 for a brand-spanking new disc of extra content that isn't just unlocked or rehashed quests over the same old maps.

This isn't just about complaining about the fact that some people think it's a crime to pay a fee or whatever you're blindly assuming. The point is that there are alternative options out there that can be just as, if not more successful than the monthly-fee plan that WoW has been using, and everyone else is trying to emulate to copy its success (Which is never, ever going to happen.). The bonus is that such alternative options can have a very positive effect on the outcome of the game that probably never would have happened with a monthly subscription. Do you remember the playerbase of PSOv1 when it first came out? It was absolutely huge - there was no shortage of different faces for you to meet. Unfortunately, with such a fee in place, the playerbase is more or less guaranteed to never reach those kinds of numbers. The details such as that which endeared many of us in PSOv1 are probably never going to happen again with the current business model, which is another reason why people may prefer an alternate one.

[Emrald]

On 2006-08-13 23:34, Pacpunk wrote:
that sucks ill just have to quit WoW then

Just wanted to say that WoW sucks!

PSO was before it and PSO was better! IS better!

[Saner]

So basically people who don't want a fee are too cheap and lazy to pay for it, right?

there will be a fee to pay for Sega's own costly servers for this game, so you are either in or out.

[qoxolg]

On 2006-08-15 06:33, Saner wrote:
So basically people who don't want a fee are too cheap and lazy to pay for it, right?

there will be a fee to pay for Sega's own costly servers for this game, so you are either in or out.

Agree with that. I don't have a problem with fees, but I first have to be able to pay it... I don't have a creditcard, I don't need one and don't want one just to pay a MMO fee. SEGA could at least make pre-paid cards or a Paypal option so everyone in the world can pay.. but that got nothing to do with this topic.

That I don't care about the fee doesn't mean I can't discuss about it.

I am also a 360 owner, and pay for my Live Gold. I was thinking... allmost every 360 game uses Xbox Live and don't ask money for it.. so what holds sega back to do the same for PSU? new content? where? there is no new content for PSU, cause it's already on the disc.. so there is also no need to pay a fee for the new content cause it is already made and ready on the disc. There is no development team that has to get paid for creating new high quality content (new area's etc etc..)

stupid example: You bought the latest uber cool Sonic game and paid €60 for it. You are about to get to the last level to pwn eggman, the game stops and says you first have to pay cause that content is not unlocked on the disc..

If the 360 is not getting connected with PC and PS2 there will be no reason to use SEGA's own servers anyway... so why not using Microsofts servers? I think alot of XBL gold subscribers are dieing to play a good online RPG without paying any additional costs.

[Fleece]

On 2006-08-15 10:53, Crispin wrote:

On 2006-08-15 09:43, Triela wrote:
<----Saner | The Point----> .

Whenever someone reads a post larger than three paragraphs, an angel gets her wings.

Sexist.

Also whoever said its not new content because its already on the disc is a moron. Ok so youve been playing the game for a year and sega unlock some new weapons youve never used. Even though it was on the disc for years its STILL new content.....