............................................One man suggested I take my cross off, insinuating that I was not a Christian.
I thought that Christians were supposed to be peaceful and love on another... I dun think flicking off a woman is very peaceful... who's the christian again?
Christian's aren't perfect either. They're humans, just like everyone else.On 2003-03-03 09:16, PalRappies_go_splat wrote:
............................................One man suggested I take my cross off, insinuating that I was not a Christian.
I thought that Christians were supposed to be peaceful and love on another... I dun think flicking off a woman is very peaceful... who's the christian again?
At one time in history (right after the Pilgrims landed in a bay no one really speaks of anymore), America was filled with people that believed in Christianity. And not until recently like 1912-present, the US held many one sided coiners. They discredited other religions as if they were weaker. Even though the nation was founded on freedom of choice in religion, some, SOME Christians ridiculed them. Christianity is still a majority in America, and probably the largest.
Apparently, that elderly man is stuck somewhere in the past if he's generalizing still.
The funny thing about that bit, is most religions of the world are trying to stop this war. Especially the catholics. The Pope is one of the most outspoken people for peace and more time for the inspectors. That person claiming she was not a christian because she didn't want war is largly ignorant on too many levels.On 2003-03-03 09:16, PalRappies_go_splat wrote:
............................................One man suggested I take my cross off, insinuating that I was not a Christian.
I thought that Christians were supposed to be peaceful and love on another... I dun think flicking off a woman is very peaceful... who's the christian again?
And just so everyone knows, the Pilgrims did not come here to found a land where everyone could practice free religion, that idea came on later. The pilgrims landed in america so many centuries ago with hopes to found a Puritain country, take a look at the Mayflower Compact. They were none too pleased with the fact that the country suddenly began to fill with people who did not jive with their beliefs. America was not founded for freedom of religion, that just happened. Only later did it seem like a good idea. Of course, it is something to be proud of... to bad the many americans seem to feel that it only pertains to christian religions.
Anyway... just thought I should drop that.
Is our government corrupt enough to risk live merely for profit (oil)? The answer to that is no. But why are we going to war? According to Mr. Bush, to protect our way of life. Not to liberate any oppressed people, not to disarm a madman, but to protect our way of life. Now, what is the average american's way of life? Very posh in the world view. One of most defining aspects of that life is the prolific use of large cars and SUV's. What powers those vehicles?On 2003-03-02 23:20, MasterJoel wrote:
Do you really think our government is corrupt enough to risk lives for a profit (oil)? I think people are moral enough to see past the dollar signs. As for the U.N. resolution, Saddam is hiding things. We need to liberate the Iraqi people anyway.
Oil.
I am not saying that is our only reason to do risk (no, garuntee) world anamostity and the lives of fellow americans. What I am saying is that oil may very well indeed factor into the reasons for this action. It merely isn't the prime reason.
As far as liberating the people of Iraq, there is a reason for that as well. Once we get rid of Sadam, a leader must be chosen to fill that vacuum. A leader we will install. A leader we know for a fact will support any US political or economic world action. We have done it before, in many countries. And we will do it again.
There are many reasons we are committed to this military action. And not all of them are humanitarian. Every action done by any country has multiple uses. For example, we give many countries monatary aid packages. We do this because it may make us look good, but it also makes the government on the recieving end indebted to us. The minute that country choses to do something which we find displeasing (read: counter to US economic and political world policy) we threaten to pull that aid. It happens all the time.
Am I saying its wrong to do so? Not really, that's just the buisness of running a country. As is the situation with Iraq. IF you don't like a buisness' way of . . . business, you protest. Try to change it.
thanks to anyone who read this whole thing. I tend to run on.
edit: needed to add the last bit.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Subliminalgroove on 2003-03-03 13:58 ]</font>
Note that people is not a pronoun, and that "people" is not an antecedent in the sentence therefore I never related the two. But, it is one of the many reasons why immigrants flocked to the frontier. My real message was that Christianity has been a dominant force in North America solely because of the numerous European immigrants. And to add to that, African Americans were coerced to believe in a false deity. You've got a giant history rooted in Christianity.At one time in history (right after the Pilgrims landed in a bay no one really speaks of anymore), America was filled with people that believed in Christianity. And not until recently like 1912-present, the US held many one sided coiners. They discredited other religions as if they were weaker. Even though the nation was founded on freedom of choice in religion, some, SOME Christians ridiculed them. Christianity is still a majority in America, and probably the largest.
No religion is bad. It's how literal you take your religion into context. Now you also know that extremists don't literally mean a martyr of sorts.And just so everyone knows, the Pilgrims did not come here to found a land where everyone could practice free religion, that idea came on later. The pilgrims landed in america so many centuries ago with hopes to found a Puritain country, take a look at the Mayflower Compact. They were none too pleased with the fact that the country suddenly began to fill with people who did not jive with their beliefs. America was not founded for freedom of religion, that just happened. Only later did it seem like a good idea. Of course, it is something to be proud of... to bad the many americans seem to feel that it only pertains to christian religions.
Sorry you got the wrong impression out of my post.
No worries.On 2003-03-03 13:48, amoralist wrote:
No religion is bad. It's how literal you take your religion into context. Now you also know that extremists don't literally mean a martyr of sorts.
Sorry you got the wrong impression out of my post.
I knew what you meant. I just wanted to let everyone know, because it is a very common misconception. Wasn't until a colonial america history class in college that I found that out.
She had to have had no brain to not know that would happen. I'm sure you have heard of the term "hive mentality." When people get into large groups, things can get out of hand. It just takes a little brainpower and common sense to figure these things out. Maybe she learned something from this?On 2003-03-03 03:02, Ariana wrote:
She had no way to know the crowd would turn violent. She was there not because they were, but because the president was, and he was the one she wanted to see her message.
"...you should NOT have to expect that kind of treatment..." No, you shouldn't have to, but that's the way it is. I do not condone that kind of behavior by the crowd, but it happens, and that's what happens when you don't look before you leap.No matter what you think of what she had to say, the point is that she had a right to say it, and under no circumstances should she have "expected" the treatment she got. If you say, "Oh well, that's to be expected if you go into a situation like that", you're in a way condoning the behavior by not making an effort to change it. After all, the first step to changing things is to say, "No, you should NOT have to expect that kind of treatment if you're going to say your piece."
Are you insinuating that I am against the Bill of Rights? I love the Bill of Rights, and think that they should be protected above all else! I think it is great that she decided to exercise her rights as an American, but she should have been smarter in her execution of them. I believe that people should be held accountable for their actions, and in this case, I think that both she and the crowd are at fault for this situation.The Bill of Rights guarantees the right to peaceful protest, which is exactly what this woman was doing. Then the crowd turned violent and profane on her. No matter what you have to say about the war, or the wording she chose to protest it, or whether she had her facts straight, nothing justifies people screaming profanities at her and spitting on her. Not in this country.
No, MasterJoel, I was replying to the thread as a whole, not you. Don't take my argument personally when it wasn't intended that way.
I don't think the woman was stupid at all. She presented a PEACEFUL and SILENT protest in a crowd of her friends and neighbors. I don't see why she should have expected to be attacked.
I think its wrong that people get trashed for their opinions...but, come ON. An opinion is an opinion, and if you think youre not going to get disagreements and angery people opposing you, youre just fucking stupid. Hell, take this thread as an example, people are preaching about valuing others' opinions, but dont seem to really give a shit.
All the people who fear war seem to only being worrying about themselves. Pray for and honor the soldiers who are willing to die for us, and by holding anti-war signs to me just seems as if your not honoring what theyre trying to do.
You cannot have peace without war in this day and age.
Man, I've been so concerened over other issues that I've pertained myself to that I almost completly forgot that a war was starting. >_<
Overall a US citizen of any type be it a flag burner, a anti-plan parenting militant, civil rights leader, a buddhist, or a card carrying member of the Ku Klux Klan has a right to protest something that they don't like as long as they don't hurt, maim, or kill anyone. Sadly however because so many people have so many different views and are more or less uncivilized in their own ways that almost any non-violent protest may turn into a total orgy of chaos and destruction... just remembering a few years ago up in Seattle the riot during the WTO... and such. It's a sad state of affairs but unfortunately it comes with the territory, even I accept the fact that I get spit on and called hateful names cause I protest a cause that is a minority. Hopefully one day people will be civilized enough to just stay away from a protest if it doesn't involve them.
As for the war in general... well I haven't establish a side at all about it, I feel I have more important things to concern my time with.
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