Eve online-like market?

[Juza]

Ah yes, only being able to get equipment by first finding a board through dumb luck, then finding the materials through dumb luck ... and finally hoping that the result has a good enough percent that it is any better than an NPC-bought weapon through dumb luck

I hear they had these things called 'shops' in PSU, where you could buy all sorts of boards at. Indeed, as time went on post-AOTI, pretty much everything but unnecessary* S-ranks were to be had at shops, not to mention their materials.

That was totally worse than wondering if you'd ever find a decent weapon due to the ever-terrible drop rates of quality gear. Indeed, it was atrocious that one could pump out a set of high-percentage A-ranks and then go to town. Simply horrifying, even!

(* Edit: Armor was a sad exception. S-rank armor was always useful, whereas high percentage/grind A-ranks were quite viable, if not superior to, non/low grind S-ranks.)

, then waiting hours for the synthesis to maybe succeed through dumb luck

Partial problem. It would've been far better if boards and enemy drops were released at the same time. This would've pleased people who expect basic features in their games, while at the same time pleasing those basement dwellers who seemingly had no reason to ever step away for the pitiful few hours that synthesis took.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

You seem to have largely missed my point. Regardless of whether you personally have to find the board and the materials versus buying them from a shop, the point remains that someone still has to do it.

PSO's system was simple: kill enemies to get a weapon you can use immediately.

PSU's system was convoluted: kill enemies to get worthless shit that you'll never need and pray to God that one of the five boxes at the end of the mission drops a board for a weapon so you can then hunt a dozen assorted materials and then stick it in your PM and cross your fingers hoping that the result won't be worthless compared to weapons you can buy from an NPC.

Maybe you enjoy the extra steps involved in PSU's system, but I found it to be nothing but shameless padding to serve as a timesink. SEGA even realized it was bullshit. Everything now drops made or comes from an exchange mission, with a good chance of having high percent.


I get your point that, in PSU, even if you are very unlucky with drops, you can still get good equipment by grinding forever and purchasing it with Meseta. Maybe that's fun for you, but it's tedious and boring to me. I get a sense of excitement and accomplishment from getting a really rare drop, even if it is dictated by a RNG. I get no such feeling from buying equipment with Meseta.

Let me explain that a bit more. For me, the point of these games (apart from goofing around with friends) has been hunting rares. The point isn't in actually having the rares, it is in looking for them.

Which is more fun? Going to a carnival and winning a prize from some stupid game, or going to the store and buying the same prize?

This would've pleased people who expect basic features in their games, while at the same time pleasing those basement dwellers who seemingly had no reason to ever step away for the pitiful few hours that synthesis took.

Really? That's what you're going with? A "no life" joke? Come ON. You've completely missed the point.

[MadDogg]

I feel that player shops: Good.

However, crafting sysem? Eh. We all saw how that originally went with PSU. Awful. They did alleviate it a bit... but overall, I think it should stick to the loot/exchange system with only minimal "crafting" involved.

I agree with this. Keep it simple, since the phantasy star online series is a smaller online rpg than something massive like a mmo. I wouldn't want them to change that either, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[KodiaX987]

Ping!

Item borrowing. Like in GT5.

A player makes one or several possessions of his available to other players in the game. Those items cannot be sold or dropped. Other persons can take and wield the weapon, and it's returned to the owner if the wielder leaves the game.

[Juza]

PSO's system was simple: kill enemies to get a weapon you can use immediately.

PSU's system was convoluted: kill enemies to get worthless shit that you'll never need and pray to God that one of the five boxes at the end of the mission drops a board for a weapon so you can then hunt a dozen assorted materials and then stick it in your PM and cross your fingers hoping that the result won't be worthless compared to weapons you can buy from an NPC.

Oh, I'm in total agreement. Varistas and DB Sabers and the rest of the trash weapons were always in high demand - they were always useful. And certainly, they always had better stats than vendor-supplied weapons. Always.

Wait, what was that about 'kill enemies to get worthless shit'? Rose colored glasses, to be sure - the vast majority of drops in PSO, including boss boxes, were in fact, 'worthless shit' as you put it so eloquently.

Maybe you enjoy the extra steps involved in PSU's system, but I found it to be nothing but shameless padding to serve as a timesink.

Hold that thought.

I get your point that, in PSU, even if you are very unlucky with drops, you can still get good equipment by grinding forever and purchasing it with Meseta.

Grinding 'forever'? You didn't need 10/10 to be effective. I'm of the opinion that PSU's grinding system was crap, mind you. But be that as it may, getting high grinds on A-ranks wasn't that much of an ordeal, and fairly tear-free, because hey - A-ranks. S-ranks were another matter, but are we talking e-genitalia-enhancing equipment, or 'good' equipment? The two are not the same, by any means.

Maybe that's fun for you, but it's tedious and boring to me. I get a sense of excitement and accomplishment from getting a really rare drop, even if it is dictated by a RNG. I get no such feeling from buying equipment with Meseta.

Let me explain that a bit more. For me, the point of these games (apart from goofing around with friends) has been hunting rares. The point isn't in actually having the rares, it is in looking for them.

Okay, bring that thought back. So, wait - your primary argument against crafting is, "Timesink!", and your support for that argument is, "I want a different timesink!"? I'm sure that makes sense on some level, but I'm just not seeing it.

My inability to comprehend your logic here aside, as I've already noted, I would've been happy to have seen PSU releasing items and boards at the same time. There was no reason not to - other than the strange thinking of Sega; but I don't recall ever saying PSU's crafting system was perfect.

Really? That's what you're going with? A "no life" joke? Come ON. You've completely missed the point.

I needed something equally lame to counter your 'crazy' quip; a no life joke suited admirably, I believe.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Oh, I'm in total agreement. Varistas and DB Sabers and the rest of the trash weapons were always in high demand - they were always useful. And certainly, they always had better stats than vendor-supplied weapons. Always.

Wait, what was that about 'kill enemies to get worthless shit'? Rose colored glasses, to be sure - the vast majority of drops in PSO, including boss boxes, were in fact, 'worthless shit' as you put it so eloquently.

I'd like to refer you to PSOBB's team system, wherein you exchange shitty rares for points to upgrade your team.

That aside, my point still stands. In PSO, even the highest-end rares dropped from enemies. In PSU, anything that is even remotely decent drops from a box at the end of the mission (with atrocious rates, I'll add), not from an actual enemy.

Maybe that doesn't make a difference to you, but to me, it made killing enemies a lot more boring, since I know there was 0% chance of being surprised by a really rare drop out of nowhere. In PSO, there was always the possibility, no matter how slim, and that made things a little more exciting. I once saw a Heaven Punisher drop from a Grass Assassin (roughly 1/200k).

As another example, I ran Point of Disaster a lot, looking for a Daylight Scar, and then a Lame Detergent from the rare boss. Yes, the weapon I was looking for only dropped from the boss, but all the enemies along the way had the chance of dropping weapons ranging from moderately useful to really good in their own right. I hope the point I am trying to make here is clear.

Grinding 'forever'? You didn't need 10/10 to be effective. I'm of the opinion that PSU's grinding system was crap, mind you.

I completely agree with you 100% about the grinding system of PSU being mostly pointless and ill conceived. However, I meant grinding in the playing the same missions lover and over again just for Meseta sense, not the actual system of upgrading weapons. I should have been more clear there.

Okay, bring that thought back. So, wait - your primary argument against crafting is, "Timesink!", and your support for that argument is, "I want a different timesink!"? I'm sure that makes sense on some level, but I'm just not seeing it.

Yeah, I can see why this would look confusing. I'll admit that this is really just a matter of preference, but I do have some rationale behind it.

For me, it's a matter of behavioral science, of differing schedules of reinforcement. For me, buying weapons/materials (or even hunting multiple materials over time) feels like a fixed ratio schedule, where a reward is given after every n number of attempts. PSO's system, where decent equipment that I can use immediately could drop at any time, feels more like a variable ratio schedule, where the number of attempts needed to gain the reward is variable. I hope that makes sense.

To use another metaphor, it is like comparing working all day for a paycheck you know will be coming, versus going to a casino and playing slot machines, where you could be surprised at any moment with a large windfall. The former is obviously the more responsible choice in real life, but it is certainly less exciting than the latter.

My inability to comprehend your logic here aside, as I've already noted, I would've been happy to have seen PSU releasing items and boards at the same time. There was no reason not to - other than the strange thinking of Sega; but I don't recall ever saying PSU's crafting system was perfect.

I didn't ever say you said that, did I?

I needed something equally lame to counter your 'crazy' quip; a no life joke suited admirably, I believe.

Ehhh, I'll let it slide this time. We're already having a pretty heavy sarcasm-off here, anyway.

[lantis-zagato]

I prefer the PSO style due to everything Ffuzzy stated. I played PSO originally for the DC and imported the Japanese version of V.2 because I was so in love with the game. After playing for a few years I eventually quit because most of my friends disappeared. Then, I bought the special edition for gamecube that offered all the online missions in offline. I had NO ONE to play with and I never took it online. However, I played that version every day solo until PSU came out. There is something to be said about always having a chance at finding that super rare special weapon from a regular enemy. I found a legit orochiagito offline which has one of the worst drop rates in the game! Granted, I probably had well over 1500 hours among all of my characters but the game never got old because there was always that chance of finding something ridiculous!

I played PSU from day one until about 2 years ago. Around that time I stopped playing consistently and would hop on for a few days or so every couple of months just to wet my appetite for some phantasy star. You know why I quit completely about a year ago? I wasn't hunting rares, I was hunting garbage boards and materials that I was hoping to sell for a meager profit in order to afford that brand new shiny weapon that took 5 years to be released. I was grinding the same boring shit missions like one of the herd just so I could say I had a +10 not a +9. Pso was about discovery and anticipation....will today be the day I finally find "___" weapon? And when you do, believe me, it is so much sweeter than finding some generic board that requires a bunch of bogus materials that might not even synth to begin with.

Sorry for the rant. I just meant to throw out a few sentences and I got carried away

[NoiseHERO]

Shops, yes (Especially attached to your room again.)

Boards, no

Grinders, i dunno. But no to the whole "grinder base" rituals

Only thing that might bug me, would be looking for that specific element/effect for your weapon. Unless you can attach one later like in PSZ.