Why only newmen and humans excel at Acrotecher.

[Gamemako]

On 2007-04-16 17:32, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Eh, OK then. WT is definitely getting changed for the better though. I see they have incresed tech at job level 10 now, but the melee side is still superior. So newman could be "OK" at WT too after expansion, but I still feel they fare better in the hands of beast or human. I'd put cast a little out of the picture now for WT, if they are getting increased tech.

AT is definitely a human/newman role.
WT is definitely more ATP orientated, but with increased TP they COULD be playable in the hands of newman now. I am still making my newman alternate between FT and AT. Especially given the fact I feel that putting all the WT capable melee PAs on him is an absolute waste of his capacity for tech.

Shima, for once you may be right. I've seen the changes for WT stats including the TP buff and S-rank wands, but will it be enough to offset the huge melee buff they get? The smaller percent ATP buff can be misleading considering that all-important third strike.

I haven't seen the Acrotecher stat mods yet, but I assume they will be more TP-based. That is, for those who want to be primarily casters with melee ability (which does take a good portion of the newman WTs away), Acrotecher is it. AoE flinching bitchslap weapon and all.

Accuracy hasn't increased at all for WTs though, meaning that newmans still might have a place, but with acrotecher looming, it leaves one to wonder.

One thing is certain though: Beasts and CASTs should not go acrotecher.

//EDIT: One last note: and notice that Acrotechers get much higher support techs. Hmmm...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gamemako on 2007-04-17 02:04 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

If you want to do ranged support, play a GT. Though, GT's TP mod almost doubles at lv 10 after AoI, so even human and newman GTs would out class casts still. Simple point being, casts and beasts weren't meant for support classes. If you want a support char, make a human or newman. (Don't bring up that the pointless buff argument, resta is far more important than the rest of the support spells).

I play a Cast GT because they are the only class to get S rank crossbows, dual pistols and machine guns. Resta is NOT the most improtant support tech. reverser is. Stun, freeze, sleep are ll SEs you cannot antimate yourself out of. Reverser sovless this problem nicely.

Edit: and for those who say WT is 'clearly' meant for melee now, why did they get level 30 attack techs?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-04-17 03:14 ]</font>

[Raysa]

Because Nanoblast/SUV is fail .

[Kimil]

On 2007-04-16 22:47, Sounomi wrote:

Again, the class is geared towards techs... Beasts have pathetic TP even compared to a human, especially with that high of a TP mod. If you aren't using a race that suits the class well then you aren't gonna be helping the party much, especially if you're gonna be the main means of support. If you want to support so badly, make a race that's good for it. It's gonna be a couple months at least before AoI comes, you have time to make a new char.

TP does not effect support techs ( except Resta ) At all!
Shifta/Deband/Zodial/Rentier/Jellen/Zallure/Zondeel/Reverser/Digas/Rentis/Giresta... they are all status effects and do not use TP in their calculation. My TP means nothing for support techs
except maybe Resta, and like I said, I can probably boost it ennough with equipment and rentier

The only stat that matters for support techs are:
- my PA cap ( which is why I'm goig to try AT )
- my PP on my wands/mags to allow me to spam
- my defencive stats, for surviving on the frontlines.

So again, if I soley go support as a beast AT, I should do fine. If I take that role, everyone else can focus on doing damage and wont need to stop and heal. If another AT is in the party though, I'll take my leave: no need for 2 support characters ( unless the AT doesn't focus on Support, in wich case I'd stay )


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-04-17 06:49 ]</font>

[Kimil]

EDIT ...

OKAY, this whole post was useless... JUST AS USELESS AS THE FORTEFIGHTER TP BOOST.. WTF SEGA -_-

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-04-17 10:49 ]</font>

[Itsuki]

This is something I was hoping for... a boost in fembeast TP.
(Now assuming this boost ins't FF related, which of course would make no sense to give a FF more TP, but race/gender related, I will calculate my TP as a Beast AT. I am not expecting much, but lets see non the less)

Old Fembeast TP as FF 100/10: 173
New Fembeast TP as FF 100/10: 207

207/173 = 1.1965 ( a 20% increase )

current fembeast TP at level 80: 528

528*1.20 = 633.6 ( 634 )

lvl 10 Acrotecher TP modifer = 130%

634*1.3 = 824.2 ( 824 )

Assumed base TP of a FemBeast AT 80/10: 824

Whoa whoa whoa stop there. fF's TP was boosted, not the beast ratio. Don't ask me why, but fF had boosts to ATP, ATA, TP, and MST. You better be crazy if you think a FemBeast is going to have 824 TP at 80/10 acrotecher. The correct TP should be 703. Also, keep in mind that human gets a boost to the acro-classes. So the difference is even more. Second, how many people carry a sta/force and +10 weapons? But I'm going to overlook it only because +5 to +7 A-ranks will probably be the standard in AoI. And thats about equivalent TP.

Since numbers seem to be the working thing here, lets throw out some more numbers:
(all these are for newman female, and are the Actual stats of a level 84 in AoI with class level 10)
ATP comparison:
fF - 711
WT - 586
PT - 558
AT - 487

TP comparison:
fT - 1324
WT - 1030
GT - 772
AT - 1160

EVA comparison:
WT - 491
fG - 417
AT - 625

Lets face it people, the class is dependent upon two stats. TP and EVA. Its not meant to be a melee class and trying to force it into becoming one will just make you gimp. Other than the S-ranks and skill levels, you have the melee ability of a damn fT. I don't see why you'd want to make a beast AT, when a beast WT would be superior?


EDIT: I don't even see why theres so much arguement here. Everyone who has touched the beta for longer than a day is arguing that AT is a human/newman based class.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-04-17 09:56 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

Itsuki-chan: can you please post the numbers for DFP for the female beast for the following classes


WarTecher
FiGunner
ArcoTecher
GunTecher

The reason people are trying to shove Beast/Cast into the AT role is the same reason people currently play Beast GunTechers, or Newman Wartecher (*coff* me *coff*), they may feel that the races high numbers in some stats offset the classes weakness.

[Kimil]

Oh well, I tought the TP boost I saw was a racial bonus... because WHY THE FUCKING HELL would FF need the boost? -______________- That pops my bubble...

[chibiLegolas]

On 2007-04-16 21:00, Kimil wrote:
I'm still at least trying out AT as my beast. I KNOW I will do zero damage with attack techs and melee ( mostlikely cards too ) but... if I focus on support, my stats mean nothing at all ( except maybe for resta, but my +10 6* wands ( the tenora and GRM ones ), lvl 41+ retier andresta and a force unit should raise the resta output high ennough.

Infact, if I play support only as a beast AT ( Buffs, debuffs, revives, digaz/rentis, heals, reverser ) the only stat that will matter will be my high racial HP so I can take frontline positions.

Playstyle i'm guessing I'll do as a beast AT:

prior to fights:
- Shifta/Deband/Zodial/Retier and then Digas/Rentis the other members
- Heal if needed

Durring fights ( staying close to the hunters to act as healbot ):
- Zalure/Jellen/Zondeel everything in the room and keep enemy buffs down
- Heal when needed Resta/Reverser/Giresta
- If everyone is healthy, cause SE with dualies or Cards
-Rebuff if needed
- Digas/rentis continuasly
- Crowd control : Knock down eneies with certain melee PAs.
- Maybe through in a Gizonde for Shock or Dambarta for Freeze.

I KNOW I wont ever do more than half the damage of other players, but AT is primarily the support class anyways so I'll play it support only. As long as I leave the damage dealing to beast hunters or newm Forces and support them as they do, I shouldn't need to worry. I hope.

I'm with you there Kimil. That's how I like to play as well. I'm all about support, and that's how I'm playing my FOcaseal at the moment. Attach techs bore the hell out of me, so I am not interested in it at all, just maximized buffs and SE to assist the rest of the group for me. I can see myself jumping between GT, and AT for 2 different support purposes. But a cast AT's (for me anyways) lower EVA does concern me. To rely on something that is random (even if it's expected) seems so much like a gamble to me. Then tell me this, when a human's or newman's EVA DOES fail, aren't they gonna get 1 hit killed? I wanna avoid this at all costs since I'll be up in the frey with the hunters debuffing and healing them. And I could care less about attach damage output. I'd rather level up my techs to get it's maxed range and rely on it's SE or bullet SE.

All this beast/cast AT hate seems to stem from the arguement that you assume they all wanna be heavy on melee or do huge damage #'s. But all I wanna do is maximize in all out support and maximize survivability through HP and DEF. Sacrificing EVA for HP and DEF personal preference for beast/cast AT, no?
Especially in boss fights. I can imagine there's plenty you can't evade in there.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-04-17 10:58 ]</font>

[Itsuki]

On 2007-04-17 10:45, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Itsuki-chan: can you please post the numbers for DFP for the female beast for the following classes

WarTecher
FiGunner
ArcoTecher
GunTecher

The reason people are trying to shove Beast/Cast into the AT role is the same reason people currently play Beast GunTechers, or Newman Wartecher (*coff* me *coff*), they may feel that the races high numbers in some stats offset the classes weakness.

level 84 again. These should be right, but the spreadsheet might have rounded differently than the game does.

BEAST	Fig	GT	WT	AT
HP	2204	1976	2470	2090
ATP	864	715	756	648
ATA	281	357	179	312
TP	190	456	608	704
DEF	169	126	171	141
MST	230	306	408	534
EVA	82	118	153	211

NEWMAN	Fig	GT	WT	AT
HP	1787	1602	2003	1645
ATP	669	554	586	487
ATA	372	472	236	401
TP	321	772	1030	1160
DEF	152	114	154	123
MST	276	368	491	625
EVA	193	276	358	482

If you're looking stat wise and weapon selection, the sad thing is, a newman WT kills beast AT in everything but buffing. And when it really comes down to it, the main spell you'll be casting is resta anyways, and chances are there will be SOMEONE else in party that can buff. So your buffing ability is counteracted. I rarely party in a party that doesn't have atleast one other techer (GT/AT/fT) that would be able to give decent buffs other than myself.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-04-17 11:46 ]</font>