Stupid bitch who deserves to die

[Ithildin]

oh ffs... they tried to get me to go to rehab, but i said no no no...

[Solstis]

On 2007-06-17 12:17, CupOfCoffee wrote:
I don't have much to add to the whole bombing thing, but I think everyone's confused on the picture he posted. That's actually him, Shiro Ryuu, and I'm pretty sure he's not Japanese.

No, I know that's him. I saw all his pics in the RL Pic thread, and I assume that the Japanese are just humouring everyone.

Japanese tourists abroad might do the finger thing, but probably not in their own country.

[Sinue_v2]

No offence, but if you think the dropping of Nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the worst tragedies to befall the Japanese in WWII, then you are a fucking idiot. The impact of the bombs wasn't the devistation they caused in total, or the loss of life. It was the fact that all that destruction came from ONE bomb. At the time, carpet bombing was a standard practice for nearly everyone - and the fear was that weapons of this power would eventually be used in carpet bombing raids. Indeed, America started cooking up all sorts of nuclear weapon devices from small scale anti-troop atomic cannons, to air-to-air anti-aircraft atomic missles, to long range surface-to-surface missles. Nuclear arms didn't become a really fearsome "doomsday" weapon until the development of H-Bombs which made Fat Man and Little Boy look like fucking sparklers.

And the bombs weren't dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end the war in the pacific. At least, not solely. The dropping of the Atomic Bombs on those cities were signals to the Russians not to fucking push us in the Pacific like they did in Berlin. Russia wanted a piece of Japans ass badly over disputed territories in the Russo-Japanese war, not to mention that China was leaning more and more towrads Communism - and you KNOW they wanted a piece of Japans ass after WWII.

The dropping of the Atomic Bombs on Japan wasn't so much about the closing shots of WWII - but the opening shots of the Cold War.

Do yourself a favor and start reasearching the firebombing raids we conducted against Japan in which we leveled their cities, several times a week, with incidiary bombs causing firestorms so intense that it would litterally light fleeing civilians up like human candles.

Also - read this site...

http://www.godhatesjanks.org/

-- or better, head to Gifu and talk to the man personally. I'm sure he'd have a lot to say to you.

Germany was only months away from having the atomic bomb.
If the war had continued far more people would have died.

Germany had surrendered LOOOONG before the bombs dropped in Japan. We weren't even fully commited to the War in the Pacific until the war in Europe was pretty much over.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-06-17 13:06 ]</font>

[Solstis]

Well, that's what happens when symbolism gets in the way of events. As if events were real, anyway.

What I don't get is why Dresden is nearly forgotten. I mean, that place was absoultely devastated. Firebombing was old news by the time we got to Japan, I guess. The nukes were necessary as a symbolic gesture.

Okay, I basically just ended up repeating what Sinue said, but vaguely and without background citations, BUT WHATEVER OKAY?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2007-06-17 13:17 ]</font>

[roygbiv]

Edit: Aimed at Durakken's post earlier.

Ok I don't totally disagree with your conclusions... but you are talking out of your ass.

On 2007-06-17 10:10, DurakkenX wrote:
Those that died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki deserve a so much more honor and respect than they are given, and they don't receive it mainly because most people are taught patriotic history rather than the truth.

Wait what? Are you talking about foreign conceptions of the victims of the bombings or Japanese conceptions of their own history?

The usual american public school take on the matter can hardly be called patriotic or callous. Especially when many places emphasize anti-war books in their literature classes (catch 22, slaughterhouse 5, all quiet on the western front), and historic accounts of the event highlight the cost of war suffered on all sides.

Japanese accounts of their own history, however, are notoriously controversial. Accounts of the bombing + victims of the attack, while neglecting any mention of Japanese war crimes does not live up to the standards of the US and Germany in coming to terms with the devastation inflicted upon their enemies.

Truman did the right thing in dropping those bombs. It may have been horrible but it was a good call. Why?


Germany was only months away from having the atomic bomb.

WOAH WOAH WOAH! Slow down. That's not just bad logic, it's also flat out wrong. First off if you weren't aware the war ended in Europe long before the bombs were dropped on Japan. Obviously you know this, which is why it hurts when you bring it up as justification for dropping the bomb. At the point when the decision was made it really didn't matter how far along the German weapon program had gotten did it?

Furthermore, it wasn't like we were worried about the Japanese developing one. Japan didn't have the resources for building an A-bomb, and didn't make any noticeable progress in creating one. From the most basic level we weren't worried about their weapons program at all. 1. They had no access to the resources they needed for the project 2. They had no method of delivering said weapon to any US target worth hitting. (At this point in the war they were crushed militarily, their navy was in ruins, and they were more concerned with defending the mainland than anything else... and they are going to somehow get a bomb to... LA?) 3. Hitting a US city with said imaginary bomb would stop the US forces at their doorstep HOW?

This wasn't even remotely viewed as a possibility. After the defeat of germany the motivation of the scientists at Los Alamos changed completely, and the race to develop the bomb continued out of inertia more than anything else.

Finally your assertion that Germany was months from the bomb is historically innacurate. Wow! Where did you get that? If you had done any research on the German weapons program you would have found out very fast that Heisenberg made some major fuck ups early on in their program which effectively ruined their program. [First by overestimating the amount of uranium you would need and viewing the project as infessible, and secondarily by not conveying to the nazi administration the potential or need for such a device... limiting the scope of the program] By most accounts the nazi scientists seemed to be a lot more interested in nuclear power than nuclear bombs. Yeah they were a couple months off from clean efficient energy! LOL!

[furthermore the state of the nazi weapons program was not totally unknown to the US gogo spies!]

If the war had continued far more people would have died.

This is probably true, you would have to make a hard argument to say that less life would have been lost in an invasion of the japanese mainland... or that japan would have just simply magically surrendered.

It has prevented all out nuclear war due to everyone not having them and gave everyone a chance to reflect.

Which is why Russia went head first into developing Nuclear bombs and the US only took a breather of a few years before going all out to make a H-bomb.

So in other words, while the event may have been horrid and grotesque all of us owe our lives to those who died in those blasts as well as those who fought in WW2, including hitler for if he wouldn't have started the war we would probably have gone into a full nuclear war later on when all of us didn't know what the consequences are.

what? You don't know that. Nobody knows that... you are just talking out of your ass.

also, i don't think all of them are doing it just to humour him, but prolly the vast majority of them are.

[End Edit: and like 50 people post before me but whatever... it makes me feel good that total bullshit is not tolerated]


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: roygbiv on 2007-06-17 13:28 ]</font>

[Banish]

On 2007-06-17 13:12, Solstis wrote:
Well, that's what happens when symbolism gets in the way of events. As if events were real, anyway.

What I don't get is why Dresden is nearly forgotten. I mean, that place was absoultely devastated. Firebombing was old news by the time we got to Japan, I guess. The nukes were necessary as a symbolic gesture.

Okay, I basically just ended up repeating what Sinue said, but vaguely and without background citations, BUT WHATEVER OKAY?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2007-06-17 13:17 ]</font>

That was then, this is now.

[Solstis]

On 2007-06-17 13:25, Fujita wrote:

On 2007-06-17 13:12, Solstis wrote:
Well, that's what happens when symbolism gets in the way of events. As if events were real, anyway.

What I don't get is why Dresden is nearly forgotten. I mean, that place was absoultely devastated. Firebombing was old news by the time we got to Japan, I guess. The nukes were necessary as a symbolic gesture.

Okay, I basically just ended up repeating what Sinue said, but vaguely and without background citations, BUT WHATEVER OKAY?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2007-06-17 13:17 ]</font>

That was then, this is now.

What does that even mean? +1 post count?

"Man, I felt really sick from that bagel yesterday."

"That was then, this is now."

"That's just a stupid, poetic phrase!"

Summary: What? Are you a farmer's almanac?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Solstis on 2007-06-17 13:33 ]</font>

[AlexCraig]

I think Roy hit the nail on the head here. I also hold true to what I said earlier. Yes, Japan bombed us killing our people. But it is also true that we blasted them as well. Its six in one, half dozen in the other. If you think about it in population percent, we did far more to them than they did us. And even IF they were somehow capable of dropping a bomb on us, we still had more people in America than they did in Japan. Yet we DID drop the bombs.
Like I said before, they killed our people, we killed people.

Getting back to the original topic, I think that lady should simmer down a bit. As said earlier, it was over 60 years ago.

[Sinue_v2]

By the way, here's a small visual aid to demonstrate a point.



And technically, the Tzar Bomba was designed for a 80-100 Megaton payload, twice the size shown in the graph. It was only tested with a 50 Megaton warhead though because the Russians actually feared the environmental repricussions.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-06-17 14:15 ]</font>

[Weeaboolits]

I don't care how terrible someone's opinions are on this type of thing, I don't think that they deserve to die for it. Be disliked? Yes. Die? No way.