The future of Rangers. Suggestions? Comments?

[Akaimizu]

Not sure what you're asking about Xbows. Remember, if they fire straight, then they'll be treading closer to Twin Handgun territory. Without the range, of course.

[Eligaz]

I want mouse support for FPS mode. :3

Won't happen. ;_; I know.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-07-09 08:03, Eligaz wrote:
I want mouse support for FPS mode. :3

Won't happen. ;_; I know.

Hehe. Next thing I'll hear is that people will want Zig-zag jump acceleration ala. Quake.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 07:50, Niered wrote:
I have been behind the inclusion of a dodge move since the beginning of PSU. Especially in S2, it is damn near impossible to dodge enemy charges. I want a dodge move that when activated PROPERLY (read: It needs to take some gahdamm skill) can get me out of harms way.

So basically your complaint is that gunners aren't overpowered enough, and they've got a free button, so they should have invincibility against the only kind of attack a some non-zero chance of hitting someone who's free to attack while moving.

LOL maybe one day on a class called Emogunner. We could abbreviate it T_TG

[Para]

I can understand people thinking Rangers can be boring with the uber repetitiveness of 1 button... maybe I gotten used to it but nothing's better popping a cap in the ass of a monster.

Maybe we should get alternate fire attacks like in Unreal Tournament XD;

[Akaimizu]

Thing is, in reality, I never stick with one button.

My actual real gunning typically requires 3 or 4 buttons as I'm hardly on the same weapon for more than 3-4 seconds, at a time. Rare exceptions with areas with rediculous monster numbers of the same creature. Like certain versions of Sea Bed with the areas full of Volfus.

Even jarbas are often a multi-weapon job. Somewhere between Bow to land the effect, Ice Twins to drill the fast Direct damage on top, perhaps Ice Rifle or Traps to freeze them to drop their EVA to zero, making it easier to land infect. (That is, unless you're a class that can use Infect traps and can start with that)

Most hunters I know never swap weapons anywhere near as fast so they deal with the attack and special attack buttons more, where I more often use weapon swapping. This is even in comparison to the more active hunters who always swap to correct elements. Of course, that does mean lag can hurt us more, but no big deal.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-07-09 08:14 ]</font>

[Niered]

On 2007-07-09 08:05, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-07-09 07:50, Niered wrote:
I have been behind the inclusion of a dodge move since the beginning of PSU. Especially in S2, it is damn near impossible to dodge enemy charges. I want a dodge move that when activated PROPERLY (read: It needs to take some gahdamm skill) can get me out of harms way.

So basically your complaint is that gunners aren't overpowered enough, and they've got a free button, so they should have invincibility against the only kind of attack a some non-zero chance of hitting someone who's free to attack while moving.

LOL maybe one day on a class called Emogunner. We could abbreviate it T_TG

Your an idiot. Sorry, I cant sugar coat that.

You failed to mention in your quote that I have stated over and over and over that I feel that rangers are an amazingly powerful class. Effectiveness is not a problem. Try realizing that next time before you go making arguements. The problem is their boredom inducing gameplay.

Now obviously anything that is put on that PA button is going to give rangers a little more of an edge, which is why I feel that a nerf to some of our stats might be in order if this was included. Preferably our defense, thus causing a dodge maneuver to be almost required for us to survive.

The other possibilities I have mentioned include taking the current Ultimate PA's for guns and making them secondary PA's. In other words, theyd handle just like they do now, but would be activated on your gun by pressing the PA button. This way you could fire regular elemental bullets for damage, and then use a non-elemental special bullet for certain situations that require it. I.E. use twin mayalee to lower the defense of an enemy like you do normally, then use the dualies elemental bullets to deal damage.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 08:14, Niered wrote:
Your an idiot. Sorry, I cant sugar coat that.

I'm not the one suggesting that gunners should have a move for dodging their only real threats. Take away stats all you want, all you would need to own the game is quick fingers and virus or burn. Being good at videogames isn't that hard.

The alternate-PA thing is basically covered already, because you can instantly switch between same-model weapons regardless of grinds, elements, linked PA's, etc.

I find I work pretty hard as a Fortegunner... taking care of traps, keeping a maximum number of targets immobilized with mayalee prism or grenade launcher, going for multi-hits with shotgun, lining up marks for laser cannon, teamkilling my squad (or trying to avoid it) with killer shot in a room full of robots... some Rising Strike to fill holes in defensive SE coverage... with all the tactical target/weapon/SE selection and positioning there's very little time to care that all my attacks are coming off of square instead of triangle.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-09 08:59, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-07-09 08:14, Niered wrote:
Your an idiot. Sorry, I cant sugar coat that.

I'm not the one suggesting that gunners should have a move for dodging their only real threats. Take away stats all you want, all you would need to own the game is quick fingers and virus or burn. Being good at videogames isn't that hard.

When did this become an arguement about the difficulty of video games in general?

On 2007-07-09 08:59, panzer_unit wrote:
The alternate-PA thing is basically covered already, because you can instantly switch between same-model weapons regardless of grinds, elements, linked PA's, etc.

Hey geuss what! Hunters can do that too! And they get a Skill PA button! Hell, forces get 4 on a rod!

On 2007-07-09 08:59, panzer_unit wrote:
I find I work pretty hard as a Fortegunner... taking care of traps, keeping a maximum number of targets immobilized with mayalee prism or grenade launcher, going for multi-hits with shotgun, lining up marks for laser cannon, teamkilling my squad (or trying to avoid it) with killer shot in a room full of robots... some Rising Strike to fill holes in defensive SE coverage... with all the tactical target/weapon/SE selection and positioning there's very little time to care that all my attacks are coming off of square instead of triangle.

Apparently you dont seem to realize that we arent arguing on the difficulty of playing a ranger. Thats not what this conversation is about. Sure, you have to designate targets and apply SE's accordingly. Take that as you will, you cannot deny the fact that you are still doing it with ONE button. As I have stated before, if Sega linked a gameplay mechanic, ANY gameplay mechanic to the Skill PA button, it would make me, and alot of other bored gunner's VERY happy.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Niered on 2007-07-09 09:07 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

yeah but niered you can do that now by putting two wepons of the same type on your palette. you can put burning prism and mayalee prism on two different lasers and have both lasers on the palette for the exact same effect. all you're suggesting is something to clean up the palette a bit...which is turn would make ranger types even MORE effective.

What panzer was trying to say was that ranger effectiveness...especially fG effectiveness is so incredible right now, anything to make them more interesting or more efficient is going to make them that much more incredible in this game. if they're going to give rangers dodge rolls or multiple bullet types, they'll have to nerf the classes somewhere, probably by way of stat reductions.

And I've said it just as much as others have said it if not more so: the various gun types are not as 1 dimentional as you make them out to be. yes you only press the attack button and not the PA button, but each fun requires different positioning and a full understanding of how the weapon works to get the most out of them. in many case this means most gunners don't use all the options they have at their disposal, but this is not a shortcomming of the class or ST; rather it's a shortcoming of the individuals.

I feel it take a lot more to be a good ranger than it takes to be a good hunter, and I play both classes quite a bit. the problem with hunters is that there are so many copies of a PA, you can generally find 3 or 4 weapons that do the same thing PA wise, and with normal attacks almost useless in this game cureently, most hunters can easily get away with using 3 PAs spread amongst 2 weapons and feel quite accomplished. This is NOT to say that hunters are one dimentional, but weapon variety is far less substantial or apparent for melee weapons.

But that's not even the reason the new abilities are being given; rather that's just something that's being semi fixed with the "just" abilities. But the real issue is that as effective as rangers are, they also are in many cases impossible to take out if they're even remotely attentive. their range lets tem see attacks coming a mile away, and their rifle lets them stop most charge attacks with a single shot. yet hunters get swarmed, have little time to react, get pounded, and don't have the stats to make up for it. But rather than double a hunter's hp, or give them enough defense to nulify many attacks, they're implimenting some features that make it so they don't get beat on quite so hard if they wish to take advantage of them. And even rangers will be able to use these abilities to their advantage in certain situations, so it's not as though this is solely a hunter ability. But this is primarily something implimented for balance, and the complaint that rangers are one dimentional only holds true if you let it.

P.S. Panzer is arguing that the 1 button part of being a ranger doesn't make it 1 dimentional. Niered, you seem to be saying that it's one dimentional no matter what if there's only action button which happens to be the trigger. so the real argument at this point is what defines 1 dimentional...but many people don't seem to see things your way in that respect. personally I think if you're really as bent out of shape over something as simple as whether or not you get to press triangle as you seem, you're having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 09:23 ]</font>