Only role to fill for the master classes

[Reipard]

Are we really going to bicker about tech usage of HU and RA being the only difference so far? Is a difference that small really worth saying the entire class is going to be different from the offline version of the same thing. The only true counter-example of a vast difference between the online and offline versions are the basic classes on the current game, but it’s already been confirmed that on PSP the basic classes have a B rank cap. The point is that there are more similarities between the PSP version and online PSU than there are between offline PSU and online PSU and from that it’s fairly easy to argue a basis is better than no basis at all.

It’s a fairly simple concept. I’m not asking you to believe me nor am I saying that I’m clearly right. I will say, however, that it’s more plausible than anything else thus far just because it has some basis as opposed to none.

That basis is still no better than the previous basis we had, honestly.

PSP is meant to be entirely self-contained in relation to itself. Imagine what would happen if we were to try and speculate on Pokemon Diamond and Pearl's metagame based entirely on the two Mysterious Dungeon sidegames, despite the similarities in terms of usable Pokemon and movesets. We'd get pretty much laughed out of the boards because they're two completely seperate entities, despite the same Pokemon learning the same moves with very few differences.

My FM compared to fF: less HP, ATP, and DFP for more TP and EVP, double saber access, shadoog access, and machinegun access.

My FM compared to FG: more HP, ATP, and DFP, less ATA, EVP, and STA, and axe access at the cost of twin handguns and crossbows.

My FM compared to WT: more HP, ATP, ATA and DFP, less TP, EVP, and MST, and axe and double saber access at the cost of whips, bows, cards, and tech access.

My FM compared to AF: more HP, and ATP (enough more to make up for the speed difference), less ATA, TP, EVP, MST, and ATA, and spear, sword, axe, and double saber access at the cost of cards and faster attack speed.

That sounds diverse enough to me, but you’re obviously entitled to your own opinion.

You can use blanket comparisons, but how much are we talking of each here? Because the classes are close enough stat-wise that the line has to be fine. Less DFP, ATP, TP and MST mean absolutely nothing if it's a difference of like 50-60 at most.

[Rayokarna]

I personally think they should be a higher teir amongst themselves, include weapons from different aspects of the game to allow them to work solo easier but also good in team play in general. Also saying that, I hate changing classes for different situations. I just want all aspects of the game in each Master Class but it shows where its speciality is.

[Angelo]

One thing people need to keep in mind is that the master classes will not make other classes obsolete.

They are just going to be another set of classes along with Forte, Hybrid, Specialist.

I really doubt Sega would make three "Better than everything" classes.

Everyone would just play as those three classes and we'd be right back to PSO.

[Poncho_Jr]

On 2008-01-03 15:50, NNEONateDogg wrote:
In my opinion, I think that these will be how the master classes will go:




Ahurr ahurr ahurr aho.O ONLY 4 weapons, and no Madoogs. D:


As a joke, this would be the ultimate of the master classes:

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-03 16:28, Dein wrote:
Actually, the basic classes for PSP have A rank in their weapons not B, although PSUpedia actually does not list those I believe Espio stated that on this site so I'll have to search for his post. But Reipard is right, you can't use PSP as something to completely base your argument off of. Also, your idea for FM isn't different enough from the expert classes (although I know that's your idea) that it'd really be an appealing alternative to the general population. Sega is probably using these classes as a means to give players more to do, and in order to get people interested in them, they'll make them stronger than the current types with wider weapon selections.

Edit: Found the post made by Espio, where he clearly says the basic types will have A rank in their weapons. http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.p...65031&forum=20
I'd also suggest reading his disclaimer about the info he posted.

Oh. That is interesting. Thanks for the correction.

But, as far as the differentiation between the online and offline version, even though there is more of a reason to suggest it will be different, is there really enough to throw out the data entirely? Would Sonic Team make the two Fighmasters vastly different from one another?

And, of course, the biggest factor of all: given the current pattern of stronger versions of the classes offline, wouldn’t it be easy to form a basis that the online Fighmaster has to be weaker than the PSP version from that?

And I did pay attention to that disclaimer, but, as I’ve said several times over, a basis is better than none. I’ll say the odds that the PSP Fighmaster looks nothing like the new one are tiny. You are welcome to say that the A rank cap on the basic classes and tech access are enough to make that as likely as anything pulled out of the air though.

(That disclaimer was also written before we knew the Master classes would be available online and I'm willing to bet that was the main reason it was written though.)

On 2008-01-03 16:29, Reipard wrote:
PSP is meant to be entirely self-contained in relation to itself. Imagine what would happen if we were to try and speculate on Pokemon Diamond and Pearl's metagame based entirely on the two Mysterious Dungeon sidegames, despite the similarities in terms of usable Pokemon and movesets. We'd get pretty much laughed out of the boards because they're two completely seperate entities, despite the same Pokemon learning the same moves with very few differences.

It’s more like trying to speculate Pokemon Diamond and Pearl based on Gold and Silver. Same game, a lot of the same Pokemon, but new additions and made to cater to a crowd who likes an easy time progressing through. And, of course, new features that Nintendo expects someone to enjoy, but the older generation doesn’t really care for.

You can do it easily, though you’d most likely be off by a bit. There’s still some weird Team Rocket-like gang trying to push your character to the dark side, but you’re never given the option to join you. Still the same 8 gyms, though the types at each gym vary. Still the same 5 members of the Elite 4, but the Pokemon Master isn’t the old eighth gym leader. I guessed all of that before I bought the game and I’m sure you did too.

But I suppose we’ve strayed from the point. I’m saying the difference isn’t large enough to completely reject the data and you’re saying it is. I’ll assume at this point there’s nothing I can say to convince you otherwise and let it rest at that.

On 2008-01-03 16:29, Reipard wrote:
You can use blanket comparisons, but how much are we talking of each here? Because the classes are close enough stat-wise that the line has to be fine. Less DFP, ATP, TP and MST mean absolutely nothing if it's a difference of like 50-60 at most.

I really don’t see the problem with that though. Isn’t that the magnitude of differences we’re talking about between the current classes (without stat increasing items) as it is? If that’s enough for a person to choose one class over another now, why won’t it be then?

There’s a tiny difference between Fighgunner and Acrofighter, yet people will go one way or the other depending on how much they like spears, swords, double sabers, and crossbows. What’s the difference between that and going one way or the other depending on how much they like axes versus twin handguns and crossbows? But apparently you see something I don’t on this issue.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2008-01-03 17:40 ]</font>

[xennec]

On 2008-01-03 16:52, Angelo wrote:
One thing people need to keep in mind is that the master classes will not make other classes obsolete.

They are just going to be another set of classes along with Forte, Hybrid, Specialist.

I really doubt Sega would make three "Better than everything" classes.

Everyone would just play as those three classes and we'd be right back to PSO.

Reducing the number of classes would make many players quit and prevent more from joining. Why? Americans like diversity. What's the most popular mmorpg in the US right now? World of Warcraft, which has 9 classes. Ever heard of the popular mmorpg Guild Wars? It has 10 classes. If I were to look for a new mmorpg, and I just looked at the boxes, what would seem more pleasing, 3 classes or 10 classes? Another point: what happens when an advanced class player want to join a group of master class players (if master class is a tier above advanced)? lol no wai, you're only advanced, you phail *boot*. I've been booted as a beast GT because of my race. If race gives idiots reason to boot me now, why would SEGA give them another reason?

I'm just trying to put things into perspective. I'm sure one of SEGA's goals is to attract players to PSU, and I'm betting pleasing PSOW boardies isn't.

[Nai_Calus]

If they're going to try to make classes between the current hybrids and Fortes they're going to need more than 4 new classes, Pillan, so I'm with Reipard here. (Even if his name does, of course, make me want to hunt him down and defeat him to avenge the death of the brother I don't have)

So where are we defining Gunmaster, then? Between FI and FG? Between GT and FG? Masterforce? Between GT and FT? Between WT and FT? Between AT and FT? What about a class between AT and WT?

That makes even less sense than uber-classes.

Also, if I thought axes were worth giving up crossbows and twin handguns for, I'd play a fucking Fortefighter to begin with. Double Sabers aren't that special, and a class with less ATA than FI has would start having problems - Can you imagine a Beast in your FM class trying to use a Carriguine Rucar? You'd miss every other hit.

But this is ST we're talking about, so I'm fully prepared for the master classes to be something utterly stupid and useless, and to be proven wrong. Because really, all I can do is speculate on what I'd like to see. I do not work for Sega. I am not involved in the production of PSU. I do not know what they have planned, and would not presume to claim that my way is right and the one true way.

But your mileage also varies.

Edit: We've known the master classes would be online long before that disclaimer. Or did you miss all the previous debates? Or the timeline Sega posted months ago that listed new classes in January? Also, offline Hunter is vastly different from Online Hunter, why shouldn't entirely seperate games have vastly different classes?

Also for the person whining about PSO: PSO had twelve classes. All of which did different things. All of which had variety PSU can only dream of. A return to the days of FOmars and HUcaseals and RAmarls would make me extremely happy. My FOmar could be full-on support Force AND full-on meleer, at the *same time*. Same L30 support as any other Force, while swinging around partisans and double sabers and casting attack techs as needed and then whipping out a rifle to shoot something I didn't want to get close to. Show me the PSU class with that kind of versatility. It doesn't exist. AT is too limited in its melee options and WT's support is pathetic compared to every other FO hybrid.

I don't know about you, but I LIKED having versatility without having to spend half my life in my room getting a new set of equipment or running to colony 5th floor every other run.

Four classes that can do a little of everything, with variances in what their specializations are, would fill me with unholy joy as finally I would be able to carve out the exact playstyle I want to have, instead of settling for whatever expert class comes closest. Having versatility does not mean an end to variety. I'd play my idea of a Fighmaster as a Fighgunner with techs. John Q. Random Asshole would play it as a Fortefighter with Resta. Someone else would play it as WT with axes. How the hell is that scenario a *reduction* of options? Only on paper, that's how.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ian-KunX on 2008-01-03 17:52 ]</font>

[Pillan]

On 2008-01-03 17:38, Ian-KunX wrote:
If they're going to try to make classes between the current hybrids and Fortes they're going to need more than 4 new classes, Pillan, so I'm with Reipard here. (Even if his name does, of course, make me want to hunt him down and defeat him to avenge the death of the brother I don't have)

So where are we defining Gunmaster, then? Between FI and FG? Between GT and FG? Masterforce? Between GT and FT? Between WT and FT? Between AT and FT? What about a class between AT and WT?

That makes even less sense than uber-classes.

Well, if you consider Fighgunner as a ranger class, it would work as either between fG and FG or between fG and GT for the same reasons Fighmaster would work as between fF and FG, fF and AF, and fF and WT when you consider the other 3 as hunter classes. It’s really not that complicated.

Simply put, I’d place FM between fF and any other class melee-wise, GM between fG and any other class range-wise, and MF between fT and any other class tech-wise.

I can easily set up the same relationship tree I did before with the other 2 if you’d like. And, as I’ve stated before, you’re always entitled to your own opinions.

[GuardianElite]

On 2008-01-03 17:50, Pillan wrote:

On 2008-01-03 17:38, Ian-KunX wrote:
If they're going to try to make classes between the current hybrids and Fortes they're going to need more than 4 new classes, Pillan, so I'm with Reipard here. (Even if his name does, of course, make me want to hunt him down and defeat him to avenge the death of the brother I don't have)

So where are we defining Gunmaster, then? Between FI and FG? Between GT and FG? Masterforce? Between GT and FT? Between WT and FT? Between AT and FT? What about a class between AT and WT?

That makes even less sense than uber-classes.

Well, if you consider Fighgunner as a ranger class, it would work as either between fG and FG or between fG and GT for the same reasons Fighmaster would work as between fF and FG, fF and AF, and fF and WT when you consider the other 3 as hunter classes. It’s really not that complicated.

Simply put, I’d place FM between fF and any other class melee-wise, GM between fG and any other class range-wise, and MF between fT and any other class tech-wise.

I can easily set up the same relationship tree I did before with the other 2 if you’d like. And, as I’ve stated before, you’re always entitled to your own opinions.

why in the hell a master class be inbetween an advance and expert class?

[xennec]

I just got an idea. Maybe the master classes will be "masters" of two handed weapons? Kind of like the acro classes except with s ranks in two handed weapons instead of single hand weapons.