Wartecher?

[MrNomad]

On 2008-03-23 16:50, mll wrote:
We can already wade into anything and survive. Thats why extra defence wouldn't be any help. And we already have more hp and defence than figunner so putting our hp just below figunner would be gimping the class, currently an acrotecher is more than competitive in defence vs. a figunner, wartecher blows it out of the water.
Every class is currently fine in the sense that we can slaughter every enemy of every level without a great deal of difficulty, in terms of of class vs. class balance were not quite there yet IMO. fF, AT and AF are marginally overpowered and WT, fT and FG are marginally underpowered. I do think we're closer to class balance than at any other point in the game though.
But anyway I've said my piece and I'll drop it at this point.

Arent you contradicting yourself by trying to put dfp on a pedestal? I thought you said dfp was meaningless at the current stat of affairs >.> Besides, if the game became more challenging then it is now, the shift in class "power" would be like it was back in PSU vanilla, where gunner classes would be on the top, and FiGs would be way up there for their high atp, hp and lvl 30 xbows/mechs. Techers would be in the middle, with ATs still above FTs because of their speed and support techs. The meleerers outside of FiG and maybe AF would again be at the bottom where close-range combat is the only good option they have. You could argue that a FF with slicers could still do good, but after all the nerfs it got plus forcing the player to stop when firing wont help much. WTs will still be struggling to fit in now when their best option to survive stronger mobs is to use cards and techs. But yeah, thats how I see it

Thats not to say I DONT want this challenge, my FiG wants to face a new worthy foe :3



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MrNomad on 2008-03-24 20:56 ]</font>

[mll]

On 2008-03-24 12:21, MrNomad wrote:

On 2008-03-23 16:50, mll wrote:
We can already wade into anything and survive. Thats why extra defence wouldn't be any help. And we already have more hp and defence than figunner so putting our hp just below figunner would be gimping the class, currently an acrotecher is more than competitive in defence vs. a figunner, wartecher blows it out of the water.
Every class is currently fine in the sense that we can slaughter every enemy of every level without a great deal of difficulty, in terms of of class vs. class balance were not quite there yet IMO. fF, AT and AF are marginally overpowered and WT, fT and FG are marginally underpowered. I do think we're closer to class balance than at any other point in the game though.
But anyway I've said my piece and I'll drop it at this point.

Arent you contradicting yourself by trying to put dfp on a pedestal? I thought you said dfp was meaningless at the current stat of affairs >.> Besides, if the game became more challenging then it is now, the shift in class "power" would be like it was back in PSU vanilla, where gunner classes would be on the top, and FiGs would be way up there for their high atp, hp and lvl 30 xbows/mechs. Techers would be in the middle, with ATs still above FTs because of their speed and support techs. The meleerers outside of FiG and maybe AF would again be at the bottom where close-range combat is the only good option they have. You could argue that a FF with slicers could still do good, but after all the nerfs it got plus forcing the player to stop when firing wont help much. WTs will still be struggling to fit in now when their best option to survive stronger mobs is to use cards and techs. But yeah, thats how I see it

Thats not to say I DONT want this challenge, my FiG wants to face a new worthy foe :3



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MrNomad on 2008-03-24 20:56 ]</font>

I'm really not trying to put dfp on a pedestal, when i talk about defence im talking about all the defensive stats (HP, DFP, EVA, MST). DFP is a pointless stat just because it doesn't change enemy damage a great deal until you start looking at the extreme ends of the scale (comparing fF to fT). The reason wartecher has great defence (not the stat) is because we have 2nd most hp. All the other stats are secondary to HP in this game basically, we have a decent - good EVA and MST, which are helpful, but not a that important and I think we have 2nd / 3rd best dfp but like i said that stat is completely meaningless.
DFP isn't meaningless because enemies are weak its just a meaningless stat unless things changed drastically since v1. Its one of the reasons Zalure has always been useless even when it took an hour to kill a jarba, it actually took longer to cast zalure back then than it would save in killing the enemy!

Yeah, a challenge would be nice.

[MrNomad]

Meh, 300 more HP than most other classes doesnt add much to a WT's defense, especially when you add in the concept of Trimates. Also, DFP was meaningless in v1 as well, infact it was the last thing you ever wanted back then XD

[zanotam]

I don't know why everyone thinks WT needs more ATP. Maybe It's because I'm used to what WT was like before AoI and the base stat boost, but I'm quite happy with my melee capabilities and I'm fine being 4th best, but with the way it works now WT is tied for 3rd best techer with GT and maybe it's just me, but I LIKED being the hardest to kill, but now that AT is out there, they're just as hard to kill for regular enemies, and are a lot better against spells then WT. When did WT go from Paladin to Red mage?

[mll]

Yeah im fine with our melee too, and 21+ support techs gives us another 5% ATP among other things so we'll be a bit closer to AF and FG anyway.
I think in v1. there were pretty much two builds for wartechers the versatile damage class, and the support / melee build. And we weren't really very good at either so they split it into two classes.
In some ways we always were a red mage.
I really miss being 2nd best techer but I waited so long for full 2-handed combos that I'm reluctant to give them up now.

[zanotam]

See, THAT'S what annoys me. Rather then think up something original for AT, they just split WT in two. Come on, seriously? But yeah, as a long time WT
(Since before buffs came out) and a Human Female (In game) I'm finding it harder and harder to justify my existence as WT instead of AT, besides the fact that there aren't enough other techers to begin with so my friends can't be picky. If they could I'd probably never get a party.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zanotam on 2008-03-30 10:22 ]</font>

[dc534]

I think this new mission really is great for WT and AT. Although fT can hold their own I prefer to have a WT or AT with me in the group, even though WT support sucks we are split up and timed so it makes litlte differnce I end up using agritides and zodarides anyways. I prefer WT in the party for the simple fact that I know they wont be killed, unless they completly suck, I men if you die as this class that is very sad. With the health and defense of WT, plus being able to heal yourself, you should not die. Anyways I prefer WT because the game lags enough already, we dont need a fT casting lvl 40 nos diga lagging us even more.

[dc534]

I here you on WT but hold on I guess in japan their support just got lvl 30 so the class might not be so bad in do time. I here you though about how much this class is hurting do to AT.

[mll]

On 2008-03-30 10:21, zanotam wrote:
See, THAT'S what annoys me. Rather then think up something original for AT, they just split WT in two. Come on, seriously? But yeah, as a long time WT
(Since before buffs came out) and a Human Female (In game) I'm finding it harder and harder to justify my existence as WT instead of AT, besides the fact that there aren't enough other techers to begin with so my friends can't be picky. If they could I'd probably never get a party.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zanotam on 2008-03-30 10:22 ]</font>

My only justification is I enjoy playing wartecher more, AT is just better basically. While the 30 support techs are nice, AT's support went up too, so were still the crappy acrotecher with some 2-handed weapons.
I don't get or like the way the upped AT's support cap. Where are the horrible drawbacks for having a lvl 50 pa cap that come with the Master Classes. They even have a speed boost. I don't know if their speed boost is as big as the Master classes but it just seems like all the best parts of a master class without any of the drawbacks.

[panzer_unit]

I finally got my cast set up as WT, one of my friends just started playing and I follow him around in low-rank missions softening enemies up with techs, WTFPWNing tough enemies with melee, and keeping him alive with Giresta. The massive stat nerf from FF15 to WT1 keeps me from one-shotting everything before he can tag it lol.

The one thing that bugs me so far is organizing my palette. Because of weapon switching lag, the only way to heal effectively for me is use one-handed weapons for EVERYTHING so I can have a TCSM with giresta/reverser following me around... and even then I've got to finish up whatever PA I'm doing before I can even start to cast.

Mashing out attack techs with a range mag firing alongside is a lot of fun for taking on robots.