The fall of the Newman race

[cel]

Rika. Nei. These two names speak volumes of the Newman race. It first became somewhat apparent in PSO, and very much so with PSU, that the Newmans are now but a mere shadow... scratch that... a pale silhouette of their former greatness.

Who said Newmans were meant to be techers? I remember Rika being the best character in PS4, not only by sheer beauty and grace, but because of all-around good stats. She could hit hard with her claws, had decent skills, and could heal Chaz's butt when he couldn't take a beating, the pansy.

Why did sega team lay the beatstick so heavily against the Newmans? Furthermore, why did they have to associate their culture with an antiquated, tacky, and somewhat gratuitously narcissistic oriental overtone? (re: Neudaiz). Granted, they didn't get gypped with simple platform set within a barren desert like the Beasts did, but they also didn't get the appropriately thematic scenery that the robots somehow pulled off.

When PSU inevitably dies, it is my hope that the sequel, should it be released, will feature a complete overhaul redesign of the Newman people. Let us play Newmans who are as generally competent as Rika was, and as memorable as Nei is. And for god's sake, give the Newmans a unique culture and not some blatant spin-off of what the developers are used to.

Rika was also much better than Nei ever could have been. Not only because she was made after Nei, or not simply because of that, but due to the ... well, I don't know. She was better, okay?

As for how PS4 ended with Rika... well, it was forced like those movies that throw in a girl and force romance to appease demographics at the cost of creativity. Chaz was a boring hero and the real star of the story was Rika, though the developers, being notoriously sexist, could not have any of that. What happened to Alys should have happened to Chaz, but didn't, because of the point I alluded to in the previous sentence. Alys and Rika were the dynamic duo in the story and all the other characters were just filler or much too static.

If I could, I'd develop a PS:V and feature an arcane and controversial storyline like Xenosaga, and all the characters are either Newmans, Dezolians, and robots. It could work! A Rika/KOS-MOS hybrid? The fanbois would eat that up.

[Zorafim]

THANK YOU!

I've been saying this for ages.


Luckily, you can get something pretty close to numans with caseals. That's what I've been using to calm my frustration, just put Levia in a epeciel set whenever not in knight mode. I'm sure acromaster will be similar to the overall feel of old age newmans as well.

[landman]

Nowadays neumen = elves it is sad but it is true

[Sinue_v2]

As for how PS4 ended with Rika... well, it was forced like those movies that throw in a girl and force romance to appease demographics at the cost of creativity. Chaz was a boring hero and the real star of the story was Rika, though the developers, being notoriously sexist, could not have any of that. What happened to Alys should have happened to Chaz, but didn't, because of the point I alluded to in the previous sentence. Alys and Rika were the dynamic duo in the story and all the other characters were just filler or much too static.

First things first, Alys had to die, simply because killing off Chaz would have very little impact on the storyline. Indeed, it's because Chaz was such a whiney and barely competent social clutz that made Alys's death all the more poinient - because now we were stuck with him to save Algol?!? That was the intended effect, and it worked out flawlessly. It doesn't matter how superior a character Alys was to Chaz, it simply wouldn't have served the storyline.

And as for the ending, well it might make you happy to know that shortly after PSIV - Chaz (who was also a hunter) died while on a mission for the Hunter's Guild and left Rika to raise the son alone. Although it's unfortunately non-canon, it's the only semi-official word we have on what happened after PSIV.

As for the Numan race on the whole, I think you're doing them a disservice by lauding Nei and Rika, and forgetting the others like Neifirst, NM-2011, and the rest of their sisters. They are the ones who shone light on the true purpose of the Numan project - and even ignoring the obvious "dark vs. light" duality they represented, they gave more depth to Nei and Rika by stressing the point that Numans ARE biomonsters - which means that while traveling with Chaz and Eusis, they were killing their own kind. It's added a lot of depth (I feel) to my own characters in PSU who I regard as Numan. Neika shares a strong bond with Laia Martinez since the SeeD virus incident on Moatoob. A bond forged through a shared trauma - the killing of their own kind in order to bring about the greater good. In Nei's case, she experienced the same thing - except that she sacrificed her own kind in order to protect those who hated and scorned her her entire life, all for the sake of preserving that spark of kindness and compassion which Eusis and her foster parents showed - but which Biomonsters did not. And it could be argued that Nei's sacrifice is what galvanized Eusis in his own fight and sacrifice against his own people in order to liberate them.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2008-04-06 03:37, cel wrote:
Chaz was a boring hero and the real star of the story was Rika, though the developers, being notoriously sexist, could not have any of that.

Those same developers (including Reiko Kodama, a woman herself, and Yuji Naka, responsible as well for PSO), were the first to place a woman in the lead role of an RPG, and one of the few to do so without making a sex-object out of her. Your "notoriously sexist" comment is entirely unfounded.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-06 03:37, cel wrote:
Rika. Nei. These two names speak volumes of the Newman race. It first became somewhat apparent in PSO, and very much so with PSU, that the Newmans are now but a mere shadow... scratch that... a pale silhouette of their former greatness.

Nei had fuzzy ears. Rika had fuzzy ears. They're human-based lifeforms engineered for superior physical performance. PSU calls things like that "Beasts". It's really simple.

In PSO I'd suggest that "newman" in that game is a catch-all term for human lifeforms optimized specifically for any sort of job. Sorta like how "robot" might be some tracked thing built to poke bombs with a sharp stick until they explode, or a car-making arm welded to a factory floor. I don't think that HUnewearl and FOnewearl were the same species... especially having seen the HUnewm concept art, featuring huge muscles, fuzzy ears, and a pretty animalistic face (e.g. where PSU got beasts from). Not a single chromosone in common with the fruity space-pimp guys casting Rafoie from all sorts of ridiculous poses.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-05-13 08:09 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

especially having seen the HUnewm concept art, featuring huge muscles, fuzzy ears, and a pretty animalistic face (e.g. where PSU got beasts from).

Beasts are inspired by and spiritually descended from Motavians. Takao Miyoshi has confirmed this in interviews and production work.

As far as I know, the HUnewmn was a fluke that was never really intended to be in the game. Much like the Wren model androids. There's actually two HUnewmn concept arts from the Book of Hunters I think. One is the picture you mentioned, the other is some giant pelican looking thing.

Nei had fuzzy ears. Rika had fuzzy ears. They're human-based lifeforms engineered for superior physical performance. PSU calls things like that "Beasts". It's really simple.

"Numan" was never intended to be a "Generic" blanket term for any "GM Humans". The numan race was specifically designed and perfected for their tasks as biosoldiers, and there have been no known variations in the project. Further, Numans for a long time were simply an extension of the Myau character archetype. Even in PSO and PSU where the roles of characters are broadened to allow player choice or maintain balance, prominent Newman females are still cast into the Myau role - such as Sue and Karen Erra.

Even in PSIII where there were no Numans at all, they still carried on the tradition of the character's archetype by introducing Meiu - a cyborg who could use techs, was competent at melee and favored claw weapons. This is why you often see those four characters together in both official and fan artwork. Myau, Meiu, Nei, and Rika are all essentially the same base character.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-05-13 11:43, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Beasts are inspired by and spiritually descended from Motavians. Takao Miyoshi has confirmed this in interviews and production work.

As far as I know, the HUnewmn was a fluke that was never really intended to be in the game.

I think you're reading a lot into the word "inspire". Beasts' appearance and racial backstory clearly have nothing to do with those given for Motavians (who are non-human and the original inhabitants of the planet) instead they look and originated much like Nei and Rika (who were engineered)

ST of course expected a lot of people to play those characters, and have to come up with a place for large numbers of them in the game-world. They need some kind of cultural context instead of all showing up on Rolf's doorstep in cardboard boxes, "unique result of a biomonster DNA experiment, free to a good home" ... so the ugly blue guys get booted from their place in the world in favor of hot catgirls.

Aboriginals can't catch a break even in videogame backstories and it makes me sick.

"Numan" was never intended to be a "Generic" blanket term for any "GM Humans". The numan race was specifically designed and perfected for their tasks as biosoldiers, and there have been no known variations in the project.

The only two examples we have from PSO are HU's and FO's which are both types of soldiers. Maybe there weren't any civillians. It would make sense that they'd be doing something dangerous with their lives if they're at risk of cacking at any moment anyway like Sue says.

Further, Numans for a long time were simply an extension of the Myau character archetype ... e.g. PSU Karen

Karen fits the archetype, but the biggest part of that character's history and storyline is how she is NOT a regular PSU Newman, she can't use techniques at all and Karen becomes that archetypical female warrior character because she's the opposite of a typical PSU newman. I think it's a pretty clear statement that typical PSU newmans have NOTHING to do with characters from the line of Myau, Nei, Rika, etc.

What about Laia Martinez? She's the Myau character for the PSU ep2 storyline, right down to the claw weapons... they used a run of the mill beast girl for that, no need to give storyline tweaks so she's actually suited to the role.

[Sinue_v2]

Beasts' appearance and racial backstory clearly have nothing to do with those given for Motavians (who are non-human and the original inhabitants of the planet)

They have quite a lot of similarities you're glossing over. Both are the strongest of the known races in their respective solar systems. Both of them are quite poor at magic. Both of them are poor at forming societies and instead tend to cluster into "clans" or "Families". Beasts were originally designed to keep their beast form permanently - but it required too much energy from them and a half-human/half-beast compromise was made. Both of them are "scavenger" races which make due with what they can.

The Genetic Engineering is about the only thing Beasts and Numans have in common.

They need some kind of cultural context instead of all showing up on Rolf's doorstep in cardboard boxes, "unique result of a biomonster DNA experiment, free to a good home"

More like, Sonic Team didn't think anyone would actually play alien races - so they left them out of their sci-fi planet hoping game and stuck to shallower and safer territory. Not to mention it'd be more work to have to create a bunch of unique Beast clothes tailored to their alien physique. If they make them human, they can just recycle all the fleshie clothes.

As for Nei's backstory, it's actually quite rich if you read the supplametary material and put it into context with Neifirst and the role the Numan project played in Mother Brain's plans. Many of the characters had decently fleshed out backstories, but they weren't presented in-game. In fact, it was the interest in the supplementary materials which clued Sonic Team onto the fact that people WANTED the characters far more fleshed out and it helped make Phantasy Star IV a far more narratively driven game.

The only two examples we have from PSO are HU's and FO's which are both types of soldiers. Maybe there weren't any civillians.

I wasn't refering to PSO Newmans. You were attempting to state that Beasts and Numans are essencially the same race because they were both Genetically Engineered. They are not the same, and never have been. Perhaps you can make the case for PSO, but this thread is about the fall of the Numan race from what they were originally designed and created for, to what they're being used for now. The changes that PSO made to Newmans, even if you can consider Numans and Newmans entirely different races, is a part of that fall.

And there were Newman civilians on Pioneer 2, such as Nol Rinale.

Karen fits the archetype, but the biggest part of that character's history and storyline is how she is NOT a regular PSU Newman

But she was, and always was. She just couldn't access it because of the Photon Seal which was draining away her powers. It's a minor plotpoint in PSU, and is pretty much resolved by chapter 6. Consdiering that PSU spans, so far, 25 chapters - she is represented as that archetype for most of the game's storyline. Even if we don't see very much of her.

As for her being different as a stress to the point that she's not like the typical PSU Newman, it futher illustrates the point trying to be made by the OP that Newmans have changed quite drastically away from Numans in the classic series - and many of the old-school fans of Phantasy Star don't like them being pidgeonholed into the role of "generic space elf in a generic space fantasy game".

As for Laia Martinez, she only really resembles the Myau archetype by her use of claws. She's not good with techniques, she's not extremely agile or quick, she's not intelligent, and she also tends to use an array of heavier weapons like spears and swords. She's more in line with Alys Brangwyn than she is with Rika. I.E. Being the hardass and highly skilled "master" figure who is short with and overly critical of her pupils. Neither one was very smart, but Alys was far more intuitive, professional, and level headed than Laia is. We'll have to wait and see whether or not she dies.

[Nai_Calus]

There's actually three HUnewm drawings. Sort of. One's the big hulking ugly thing, one's a much thinner and more 'normal' character type that looks more or less like someone stuck pointy ears on Odin, and the pelican thing, which is on the same page although the text seems to be indicating that it's *not* a newman, which makes me wonder why it's there...

It's stated that they originally planned for 18 classes in PSO but had to cut it to the 9 of DC PSO because of time constraints, so it's not that they 'never really planned to use the HUnewm', the illustrations of him and HUmarl appear to be at about the same point in the design process as the later-used FOmar, HUcaseal and RAmarl, and illustrations of the used classes that are approaching the final designs. Rather, the big ugly bulky HUnewm is done in that same kind of coloured, shaded art style - the Odin look-alike is a rough drawing and the pelican thing is a watercolour with little definition, both consistent with other obviously rather early designs, implying that both were abandoned early on but the HUnewm class got further development to the point we see in the illustration.

Incidentally, the final versions of HUcaseal and RAmarl are extremely similar to the illustrations presented in the Book of Hunters, with relatively little change.

For some god-knows reason FOmar was entirely redesigned. I liked the original FOmar better. >_>

Incidentally, the section presenting early rought design idea sketches has what appears to be a very very early HUnewm idea - A male newman, thin, with what appears to be a pair of claws. It's kind of a shame they discarded ideas like that in favour of the FOnewm.

For that matter, it's kind of a shame they picked FOnewm over FOmar for DC too. Or that they didn't go the opposite way with them - The original FOmar designs bear a slight resemblance to Lutz. FOmar however is a rather mediocre tech caster, best for supporting rather than nuking, but a competent meleer, making him more like a classic newman than two of the three actual newmans in the game. Whereas the FOnewm is, while capable of melee, not that good at it, but he's a good offensive character. Simply for nostalgia purposes it would have been interesting to make the FOnewm more numan/myau-ish and the FOmar more Esper-ish.

...Though, if I had to use a FOnewm for a good melee Force I'd go nuts. >_>

Don't forget perhaps the most prominent civilian newman of all, Elly Person. We don't know what she did before she joined the Lab, but she sure as hell wasn't actually a FOnewearl.

I kind of wonder what the 'missing' four classes would have been. Newman Rangers and android Forces? Something else? Between the twelve classes that eventually made it into PSO and the HUmarl and HUnewm, we've got 14... Who knows, heh.

But yeah, useless space elves are annoying. Especially in PSU. -_-;