Wartecher

[mvffin]

aren't both of the 10* tenora's head/arm/body?

Yes. Good if you're not a cast and you prefer EVA over DEF. Also, Orpa-Senba is H/A/B, and is good if you prefer DEF over EVA. Casts are really the only one's screwed out of good armor as WT, FF, PT.

[panzer_unit]

So from mll's work it's clear that capped proper-element WT techs are NOT going to outdamage their melee, even for Newmans. I'm okay with that.

So... what to use techs for?

They're pretty good in situations where melee basically sucks, you get around damage resistance, they do damage despite heavy interruptions and can tag with some SE's that prevent further attacks.

You can also compliment your choice of melee weapon. If you've got a whip on, what about a mag with ra, basic, and nos techniques for some more focused firepower? If you've got a weapon with Spinning Strike or something, you can have Gi- or Dam- techniques on tap to soften up huge masses of enemies. You can keep your melee weapon handy like that for a lot more PP regen time.

[Aumi]

I'm trying to simulate some classical numan feeling by using WT for my newman, nei, which I call a reincarnation of the original Nei. I'm using claws and twin claws and support techs. I'm also leveling FT and plan to level AT with the character. But if AT had claws and twin claws I'd rather use AT, since it's one of the fastest classes in attacking speed and has got the best support techs, so it gives a good classic numan flair.

[panzer_unit]

I'm trying to simulate some classical numan feeling by using WT for my newman, nei, which I call a reincarnation of the original Nei. I'm using claws and twin claws and support techs. I'm also leveling FT and plan to level AT with the character. But if AT had claws and twin claws I'd rather use AT, since it's one of the fastest classes in attacking speed and has got the best support techs, so it gives a good classic numan flair.

Beasts WT are far more like the classic PS catgirl characters. It's really a shame they don't get S-rank single claws, considering the Rika claw is 13* or something. On the other hand the A-ranks really don't leave one with much to complain about, and the special B-ranks are neat.

A lot of people who pick Newman for "Numan" characters end up badly disappointed because the stat balance is completely wrong.

[Dragwind]

WARNING, TL;DR POSSIBILITY. Read only if you're really interested in WT technic discussion.

It seems that in v.1, gi-techs were a superior part of tanking as a WT. It was the best AoE attack they could use at the time, and the combination of all defensive stats really allowed you to tank-tech while doing good damage.

However, things have changed with the introduction of Just Attack, and whips. With my human, and even newman wartecher, for overall range and damage, whip > gi-techs.

If you're using gi-techs as a WT now, I suggest you pick up whips instead. I was quite sad to unequip all my of gi-techs, but the difference is quite noticeable. Its easy enough to test and see, without calculations. Try it, have a blast.

As for other technic choices as a WT, I still don't understand to this day why some WT's prefer to use ra-techs. They're stunning on a fT, but the TP modifier as a WT doesn't let them shine. It also defeats the purpose of your high defensive stats, you shouldn't be trying to play ranged, in my opinion.

If you're considering into some technic choices aside from your choice of support, I suggest going for Dam- and line technics, as they will be more damaging in your arsenal for the most part.

Foie, Diga, and nos techs can be somewhat ignored, but they can have uses in some very odd occasions that would outdo your melee, but hardly. These situations have been few and slim, not enough to raise my eyebrows. Melee pa's just about always have single target - 2/3 target solutions handled much much better, with far more damage.

Why Dam and line techs? Each one benefits more with the the more targets you're hitting.

With dam technics, you can semi-lock a mob while doing steady damage. Depending on your race, you might not get interrupted as much as a fT or aT due to your slightly lower evasion, which benefits you from getting interrupted during Dam tech use. The damage is pretty decent per hit, and you don't have much recovery time after its done, except for starting it again. This gives you an advantage over melee during some situations where you can keep a mob together, and kill them together (granted you don't have morons knocking everything all over the place). Test it out yourself.


As for line techs, its similar to lasers, but with a somewhat longer startup, and sometimes a bit harder to adjust position with. The advantage again, comes with the more targets you hit, the more damage you're doing. In some cases, out damages melee due to the targets being hit, and Just counter consideration.


Take all this information with a grain of salt. I've had my hands dirty with the human and newman side of the class. Its better you try with your race, and try with the best equipment and PA level that you can. None of what I stated above I'm claiming to be surefire truth, but what I use personally, and have had more success with. This is just an opinion, and I can't say that I have concrete numbers to prove anything, just rough estimates formed from my experiences playing almost everyday from the class release, to today.

[LTrav2k]

Well Drag, this is probably going to produce an interesting discussion and I'd like to add my thoughts about it.

I agree that melee combat is the most premier method of damage for a wartecher. With more S rank weapons carrying status effects of their own, it really makes you pick and choose the technics you want to carry with you. Unless the situation makes melee totally worthless, it will be my main source of damage.

First and foremost, I really love whips. Having a weapons available to control large amounts of enemies is great... but sometimes you can be interrupted one too many times if you don't have a partner drawing attention away from you. Gi-technics still have their place, but for WT it's rarely about damage. I currently rotate between Gibarta and Gizonde because based on the mission, the status effects can be very helpful (Go level 3 shock and freeze!). I do understand that you can generate these same effects with whips, but I normally reserve whip for my light/dark Vish Tiens. Sleep is too awesome to have while flailing around

I only have two Ra-technics, and I use them regardless of the mob's element based on combat strategy. Those technics are Rabarta and Ramegid. We all know confusion is wonderful for making hostile technics pass right through us, and I've been leaning toward freeze more than shock just because it makes positioning easier after a mob is frozen. Once I'm in close combat however, I switch to my gi-technic and melee options.

My other wand will have the elemental attack spell for dealing damage in the mission (normally the single target version for melee resistant mobs) and nosdiga. Nosdiga rarely cares what element a mob is, because if there isn't anything else around it'll hit the mob three times and give you a reasonable chance to stun the target. Stun quickly offers you free reign via melee if that is an option.

I pair both attack tech wands with Sonichi, just because the mag is so good on many levels. 3 way shot, knockdown, and Jellen level 2 makes sure that I become even better at absorbing blows. The knockdown keeps everyone close for ra-techs to quickly apply an SE, or give me ample time to run in and start hacking away. With a Har-Quick and the new flinch that attack spells cause, it's very easy to cut a monster's advancement towards you in half once Sonichi chimes in with a knockdown or two.

The only line technic I always carry on my person is Megid, and that's purely personal preference I imagine. I like the small chance of incapacitation when there's a huge group of enemies to cut through

I stopped using dam-technics because I felt mobility suffered too much in close combat, which missions do you normally carry dam-technics on?

[Mewnie]

I find Dam- techs are awesome in maps with lots of chokepoints or places to pin. Not so hot in wide open spaces.

Dambarta was my first 21+ tech as a WT.. I used it a lot in Relics runs by standing in doorways and letting the swarms of badira or golmoros charge and freeze themselves :3

[panzer_unit]

When I go WT, I'll equip techs in two different ways:

RCSM (with good SE) + Wand (proper-element) combos for the more annoying enemies to melee with... usually Nos, Line, or Ra technics. Since my Cast uses TECH Charge to get his TP off the floor I figure I'm better off using techs that suffer least from not rapid-firing them.

TCSM (proper-element) + Melee weapon (proper-element) combos for heavier-use melee weapons... if the weapon's a saber/dagger/claw, I'll equip Gi and Dam technics so I've got something that can deal with swarms of enemies. Whips are paired with Resta/Reverser, if I'm going to go into nursemaid mode I'll spam some freeze with Vish Kuseb and wait for someone to lose HP.

[Dragwind]

This is the way these discussions should go, I'm glad to see some respectful insight, instead of the mindless arguments and rash claims. Very nice. If more people participated like this, I would probably stick around for these discussions.

Anyways, LTrav2k, you bring up some good strategies on keeping mobs from advancing, and SE application. I probably should have mentioned that I personally aim for milking more damage, hence the play-style I stated above. Your strategy will probably prove more useful in the future if we get some harder missions that will require it in my opinion.

For whips, I hardly ever use the 2nd part of the combo, unless I'm sure its going to kill because of the knockback and windup time on Vivi Danga. I generally only use the first part of the combo, and I prepare for interruption with a Just Counter. I also tend to bring 2-3 armors with me, one being evasion based, and the other being DFP based. I tend to use the DFP armor for whip usage.



I will say no doubt, the SE application for Ra-megid is interesting, since you can inflict confusion from a distance, which can give a slight aggro advantage at times. I prefer to try to absorb most of the damage as I said before, hence why I usually try to stay away from ranged combat as a WT.

I'm also glad you mentioned Nosdiga, that was a mistake I forgot to mention in my nos-techs area. Nosdiga is in my opinion, the most useful Nos tech for a WT. It does inflict stun often enough, and the homing capability is quite useful. The damage on it easily, and most of the time, out-damages diga. Its also amazing on most bots.


Also, you bring up another interesting piece of equipment I have yet to try, which is the Sonichi. I keep forgetting that its an A rank, but the idea of 3 way shot + knockdown paired up with a whip or Dam tech does seem like it could be quite useful, so thanks for that bit of info, I'll try experimenting with that sometime soon.

As for Dam- techs, as Mewn said, I try to use them in places where I can cover more area with less area for the enemy to scatter in, such as hallways, corners, against a wall, etc. The damage can really add up fast. I usually run a mission a few times until I can find the better mobs/spots to use them on.


Also Jagd, I rather prefer a TP boosting unit myself for my tech usage, sans line techs. Nosdiga hardly benefits from my point of view with a quick unit, and the snakes still need to travel, and they aren't sped up. Dam techs just need a simple charge up, and me/quick doesn't speed up the duration of the tech, so you get more benefit from the TP boost.

But yeah, looks like its time to examine Sonichi usage ;O

[mll]

I like the turn this conversation has taken.
I still think long range techs are great you can use them to get enemies who are sitting to one side of the main mob flinging techs at you to come in closer,
basically drawing enough agro to bring them back into whip range.
Also throwing 2 or 3 foie's at large enemies before moving in for melee works quite well, you stand a decent chance at getting a burn se and if you don't then no harm you've wasted about 2 seconds.
Again Dam and line techs deserve a mention, keeping a mob from attacking all your teammates.
All the techs have their uses though and I think it's worth mixing around the types of techs you have. Get one or two of each type
Some elements are particularly good with certain tech types. Dark techs are good example, Dammegid isn't great in comparison to Damfoie or Dambarta but Ramegid is probably the best Ra tech in the game.
Also not all of the Gi techs are useless (even in terms of damage vs. whip) certain robot types swarm around you in large numbers. Also if you put them on a mahdoog and get a har / quick you can keep a lot of enemies types completely stunlocked (enemies that lunge can knock you out of it). Dam techs do the same job but the aoe of Gi- spells just suits the enemies / situation more sometimes.