LAser Cannons or LongBows?

[Magus_84]

The following question is nearly pointless, as it's a minor nitpick. However, it's something I see mentioned quite often, and I don't quite understand the reasoning behind it.

And I'm pretty sure the handgun is still superior DPS to a bow due to the firing rate difference, but bows still have the range and DFP ignoring advantages.

If handgun outdamages bow even on higher-DFP stuff, wouldn't the DFP-ignoring "advantage" be a moot point? It seems like people mention that as a way to give Bow extra points, when the actual effect it has in the game at this point in development is nearly useless. Most often comes up in Rifle vs Bow discussions (which most don't seem to realize only applies to GT anyway >_>)

DFP scales horribly in the game, from what I've tested. Level 40 Zalure adds around 20-30 damage to most enemies. So in the damage calculation, a bow would be adding about 90-130 damage per shot if compared to a weapon with identical ATP, rate of fire, elemental percentage and ATP mod (very rough calculation for the purpose of comparison). Of course, since such a weapon doesn't exist, it's kind of pointless (from a practical standpoint) to look at the DFP ignoring properties of a bow as a separate advantage.

Especially since, in the rare cases where the DFP-ignoring could possibly make them outdamage Handguns on something both can hit (Dragons if you aren't aiming at weak points), you'd be better off using a Grenade anyway. The rate of fire on bows absolutely kills them.

If you're using a bow, by default, you're getting the DFP-ignoring properties calculated into the mediocre DPS that gets beat by a Handgun. And if you're using a bow, by default, you're passing up using something else that'd probably be more useful. Your choice in the end, of course. But if you're asking, you may want more advice than just "pick which one you like".

The only things bows are good for are a bit of extra range (when compared to a Handgun) and looking cool ;_;. Since if you can't hit something with one option, it doesn't matter that the option could theoretically be better.

I'd suggest giving high priority to leveling your Laser bullets, and picking up a bow bullet or two for the very rare cases that you can't hit a boss with melee, grenades or handgun.

[desturel]

for the very rare cases that you can't hit a boss with melee, grenades or handgun.

There are a few cases where melee, grenades or handguns might not be the best option. Not "rare". It's just that the missions that those occasions bring up are "rarely" run.

De Rol Le, Dimmagolus, Omnagoug and Dark Falz. In some cases Magas Maggahna since using a handgun can get dangerous due to the lack of range. It's even more important with MM if you don't have stun resist. But those go without saying and are likely the ones everyone thinks of first.

In other cases, chasing down an airborne Dragon boss with a handgun is mostly a waste of time due to the lack of range. By the time you get close enough to use a handgun and position yourself to shoot the head, most times it's flying off to a new location.

It's also useful for Jarba. Not so much Tengohg and Jusnagun since there is no dambarta to worry about with those creatures, so shotgun is your best option. Sure you can shotgun a Jarba at the back and avoid the dambarta, but bows give you more freedom of where you are placing yourself at any given time and allow you to rotate the camera to see what the other Jarba on the map may be doing. (Lab Recovery, Mad Beasts, Dual Sentinal, Crimson Beast. Not so much for Lightning Beasts obviously.)

There are also times when it's useful for Gaozoran. Low level players don't exactly want to get into handgun range, let alone shotgun/spinning strike range of a Gaozoran. Positioning a group of Gaozoran with a grenade, while affective, is very time consuming and frustrating in missions that aren't True Darkness where they all spawn together in one neat little set. Rising Hit 40 is good for one or two as a low level as long as you can keep and eye on both of them, but once you get to three or more, you want the extra range and security of being able to dodge the 3+ Foie flying at you at once. Of course doing a mission that has 3+ Gaozoran in one room and isn't True Darkness solo probably isn't advised.

The slow firing speed is one of the reasons why the ultimate bow PAs suck so much. Chosei-sou isn't really as big of a problem as Masei-sou. With the slower firing rate it has increased range, so you can stay at a comfortable distance. An elemental bullet is still better, but in a bind where you only have one bullet (I don't know why a PT would only have one bow bullet) that's your main choice. Masei-sou has horrid range, firing rate, accuracy and would wind up getting you killed in most situations where a bow can be used over other options. Why Sonic Team has never decided to fix Masei-sou is beyond my understanding.

[Pillan]

If handgun outdamages bow even on higher-DFP stuff, wouldn't the DFP-ignoring "advantage" be a moot point? It seems like people mention that as a way to give Bow extra points, when the actual effect it has in the game at this point in development is nearly useless. Most often comes up in Rifle vs Bow discussions (which most don't seem to realize only applies to GT anyway >_>)

The reason for still considering a bow's DFP ignoring properties when comparing it to a handgun (or any other gun) would be for the condition that your ATP is low compared to the enemy's DFP. There are only 3 cases where this is true: fighting Zamvapas, playing as Newman Fortetecher, or doing an AoI mission at the very minimum level. But I agree that in general this advantage doesn't account for anything.

[Transgamergurl]

If you are looking for opinions I would go with both the laser and the bow. Bows are very good source of long range damage, more effective on larger and flying monsters. Laser are great for a mob of small creatures. When they made laser cannons have 45% element at lvl 31+ they made the damage compare to the bow. My pt does around 1300 with the bow but at the same time i do about 1300 with my laser as well. Don't forget the bow ignores defense so youll don't have to worry about bullet resistance.
Consider getting all the bow bullets, but for the laser cannon, i would go with at least 2 bullets of your choice. Mainly i would pick the 2 that you like. In my case i have light and dark for my laser. I love virus, and the confusion is nice being able to make them attack one another and techs won't do damage to you. A two for one deal.
Probally the best advice, just go try them out. If you don't like one of them, then don't use it.

[Gen2000]

For PTs, they can use Laser Cannons for first-person damage sub...that's what the OP was getting at I believe that was for the most part ignored entirely in this thread with the exception of like two other posters. Obviously any other time they are different and can't be compared at all.

For first-person damage, Laser Cannon keeps up with bow if not does better. Bow is only slightly better vs. Onma/Dimma because the laser bullet travels kinda slow to keep up with their erratic flying movements.

I got all Bow bullets lv.40 because I thought I need it for first-person damage at least but I rarely use it because for ****s and giggles I decided to use my Laser Cannon lv.40 bullets instead on bosses like De Rol and was surprised by the results. Bow is quite useless in the end. Using Degehna Cannon in first-person mode constantly isn't recommended though...you will go blind.

[CaRLxD]

Which is better? I am starting a protranser and was wondering which was better

Thnx

I guess it depends on the spawn because Cannons hit multiple targets so if its a big spawn your gonna hit more w/ cannon but bows would be better for large monsters and bosses.

[amtalx]

My pt does around 1300 with the bow but at the same time i do about 1300 with my laser as well. Don't forget the bow ignores defense so youll don't have to worry about bullet resistance.

Bows only circumvent DFP, not native bullet resistance. You will still end up dealing 50% damage, just 50% after ignoring DFP.

[desturel]

I guess it depends on the spawn because Cannons hit multiple targets so if its a big spawn your gonna hit more w/ cannon but bows would be better for large monsters and bosses.

I know you mean multi-creature instead of multi-target, but I'll nitpick anyway. A multi-target laser cannon would pretty much out do any other weapon in the game.

[R2D6battlebot]

This argument is fail. Bows are not good anymore because SE4 is not needed to kill things, especially on a PT who has traps AND Majarra/Jabroga. Lasers win this argument hands down, range doesnt matter EXCEPT on Onma/Dima style bosses, and as already said, I'd just use a handgun. This game is way too easy for people to really argue about how to do more damage, especially with a stupid comparison like this one.

Question - Which spawns more often, a boss, or a mob?
Answer - Lol, quit the game.

[Hrith]

For PTs, they can use Laser Cannons for first-person damage sub...that's what the OP was getting at I believe that was for the most part ignored entirely in this thread with the exception of like two other posters. Obviously any other time they are different and can't be compared at all.

For first-person damage, Laser Cannon keeps up with bow if not does better. Bow is only slightly better vs. Onma/Dimma because the laser bullet travels kinda slow to keep up with their erratic flying movements.

I got all Bow bullets lv.40 because I thought I need it for first-person damage at least but I rarely use it because for ****s and giggles I decided to use my Laser Cannon lv.40 bullets instead on bosses like De Rol and was surprised by the results. Bow is quite useless in the end. Using Degehna Cannon in first-person mode constantly isn't recommended though...you will go blind.

Of course bow is useless.

Bow has the lowest DPS of all guns, laser has the highest DPS of all guns, and some people argue over the uses of the former... lol

When there's not enough monsters to justify the use of a laser, you use shotguns, not bows.
If the monster resists bullets, you use melee; PT's melee damage is not very high, but it's decent.

You may think that Onmagoug and Dimmagolus justify the need of a long range FPS gun, but they don't, really. As a PT, you will deal at best 10% of the damage to the boss with your bow. When those bosses land, a combo of Ikk Hikk or some well-placed Anga Jabroga will deal the remaining 90% (I don't mean in one go, only FF can pull this one).
Fortefighter still kills those bosses faster than Protranser without using a gun at all.

As for De Rol Le and Dark Falz, they're never within bow range without being in handgun range, and handgun does more damage.