*Side Topic* -Open TECHNIC leveling Discussion-

[Tyreek]

Well, as not to deviate from the original discussion about TECHNIC leveling, I decided to take my post into a newer thread. While we were talking about TECHNIC leveling, an interesting thought occured to me at one time. I made a video on my first buff leveling experience a year ago on Youtube. Now someone took it upon themself to say that buff leveling is a cheap tatic for lazy people. Now honestly, I think it was seriously absurd, as this method of leveling buffs is literally ideal for everyone. But what are your thoughts as to buff leveling in general? Is it cheap? Is it efficient? Is the guy a freaking idiot? Share your thoughts.

[JAFO22000]

Well, as not to deviate from the original discussion about TECHNIC leveling, I decided to take my post into a newer thread. While we were talking about TECHNIC leveling, an interesting thought occured to me at one time. I made a video on my first buff leveling experience a year ago on Youtube. Now someone took it upon themself to say that buff leveling is a cheap tatic for lazy people. Now honestly, I think it was seriously absurd, as this method of leveling buffs is literally ideal for everyone. But what are your thoughts as to buff leveling in general? Is it cheap? Is it efficient? Is the guy a freaking idiot? Share your thoughts.

I don't think it's a "cheap tactic for lazy people", but I never participated in "buff parties" partly because I feel that they are an unnatural way to level your techs. Plus, I play games for fun and buff parties are the direct opposite of fun. Same as AFK leveling. But I am not against anyone who wants to do this.

Keep in mind that leveling certain things in this fashion usually leads to one not understanding the tech, bullet, PA as well as someone who levels them "naturally". For instance, someone who sat in PO with a rubber band around their controller shooting Barta at a group of Vahras with a king did not go through the same hardships leveling this tech as I did. But, by doing so, I shot Barta at low levels to the high levels, experimenting with it on different types of creatures and really learning how the tech works as opposed to just having it leveled high. I suppose you can draw an analogy about heart surgery: Would you rather have a heart surgeon who took a quick, year long correspondence class on the procedure or a doctor who spent 8+ years in college studying medical procedures?

I know of people who joined buff parties to get their techs to the max level, then never buffed anyone; they just liked how it looked in their pallet. The only point of leveling the tech was to show off to others.

[Tyreek]

An interesting view. As opposed to using actual attack techs, I saw buff leveling as a productive method to make them stronger. To be honest, I see little coming out of using one buff, waiting for 5-10 mins after a while and then using it again. LOL I actually did that offline with Shifta. By the time I beat the game, it was only level 5. >>;

[redroses]

My point of view is that Buff should be looked at different.
When I was in my Buff Party I was sitting there the whole time smashing my button. It's basically not different from a Techer, Gunner or Fighter to go solo in a mission and only spam/button smash one Photon Art.
Leveling buffs normally would take waaay to much time. And buffs are only useful when there are high levels. Also buffs work different than other photon arts, because leveling the normally also means hoping there isn't a other player with higher buffs in the party and always debuffing his buffs. With other photon arts you don't get other people really in the way, if you understand what I mean. And unlike buffs you can atleast do something helpful even with low leveled photon arts.

Also there is nothing more annyoing for party members to wait every minute so you can rebuff them again, plus the buffs being weak and barely helping. Leveling buffs normally wouldn't be helpful to the player, to the party and cause conflicts and just would take too much time until you could be really helpful with them.

Also @ JAF
I totally agree with you when you say people don't learn how to use a photon art for example if they spam level it on one spot. But like mentioned above, you should look at Buffs differently. You don't need to really aim buffs or use them in a fighting way like Techs (knowing how fast they shot so you can learn to aim, dodge and feel the length or range). Buffs are a circle and all you have to do is be close to everybody, you can learn that in a couple runs. It's also much easier for the player if he has high leved buffs as the circle will be bigger and people will be more likely to wait to be buffed. But with level 1-21 buffs people will barely wait for you to buff them and just keep running away. So again, with buffs you also have to take the team members more into consideration. I am totally on your side when it comes to afk leveling a Tech/leveling a Tech in a safespot except for very low level players, because you just won't get the real feel for the TECHNIC.

[HiroChicken]

Since I just switched to Acrotecher, I decided to join a buff party to get my 4 stat buffs to at least 21. In the time I did that, I just browsed the internet. I agree that buffs should be viewed differently than other techs or afk leveling.

[biggabertha]

I've been up in arms about this subject too.

On one hand, if you level PAs naturally, doesn't that mean the casual player who wants to be able to hit enemies consistently is forced to wear Cati / Hit and the highest grade Tenora weapon available to them for the extra ATA?

Sure, for Casts, this isn't such a problem but when you square off against Deljabans or high level enemies.. having at least Lv. 31+ PAs are kinda essential for those. Otherwise you could be getting batted around and one-hit-killed just because your PA didn't hit or you ran out of PP casting the same TECHNIC over and over again.

Buffs are nicer the higher level they are. I'm sure leveling buffs naturally with other low level players getting through the game at a nice and easy pace is fine. You can get away with that in full parties but small parties or solo... it's not so easy.

If it took me a constant 6 hours and 47 minutes of Rescuing Hyuga A part 1 to raise Rising Shot from Lv. 1 to Lv. 31 a a Gunmaster in order to be helpful against Deljabans, how is the casual player meant to do the same? (It's 8 hours and 26 minutes for a Fortegunner to get Frozen Shot from Lv. 1 to Lv. 31 by the way - I did both on a PS2).

Same thing with buffs - I spent nearly four straight hours as my Acrotecher to level up Jellen from Lv. 1 to Lv. 40. Chances are, I only need to spend about half an hour to get it to Lv. 41 but that's still quite a lot of normal game time considering you're running and not always hitting six targets.


I understand about the learning the PA while you play - I stuck by a Protranser all of my PSU life on the same character. Before we got our first event (Winter event..? The one that gave us Formal clothes), I had gotten all six elemental Shotgun PAs to Lv. 30 without power leveling them and it wasn't until I actually got them to about Lv. 35 did I see any decent damage from them. Or accuracy for that matter - but that's different with TECHNICs since they never miss (so long as they hit physically...).

I assure you, I use my PAs to the best of my ability and even though I have all 56 useable PAs a Protranser can use to Lv. 30/Lv. 40, I only keep the most useful 36 PAs on me while banking the others. (So no, I don't carry Masei-Sou 40 with me... -_-;; )

[darkante]

I see no reason not to use a faster method on leveling techniques if you want too.
Especially buffs, who are you trying to prove?
There is no "skills" involved, it´s just time consuming.

[JAFO22000]

I can understand how different it must be for those in PUGs. I am lucky enough to have a group of friends to play with who did not care if I leveled my buffs naturally; they did not expect me to have all level 30 the day they came out...and it really didn't take that long to do it naturally!

Some things I gained on buffs/debuffs by doing it that were knowing the duration time (almost down to the second!) understanding how to buff up people mid battle and how to properly use debuffs (which creatures to use which debuff(s) on) etc...

It's really hard to explain here, but I did it my way and I'm happy and others did it their way and are happy.

In the end, if you REALLY leveled your buffs to be the greatest help to your party, why didn't you just switch to beast FF or Cast FG?!?!?!

[biggabertha]

In the end, if you REALLY leveled your buffs to be the greatest help to your party, why didn't you just switch to beast FF or Cast FG?!?!?!

Mainly because I cannot STAND the look of beasts or casts in this game. Some look good, yeah - but those lines that casts and caseals have on their faces? Eugh...

Those noses and ears that beasts have? As well as the lips? Sorry, not for me.


But I suppose that just makes me a really subjective person. I can't even stand newmen ears and how Legolas-ey guys look or how child-like females look.


Being a Techer on a PS2's not easy. Please don't try to persuade the few enthusiastic techers to leave what they like to do in a party.

[Tsavo]

Buff parties can be torture. Leveling them only through use in missions sounds like hell on earth to me. I've never really understood the controversy over power leveling skills, bullets, and techs though. Being a subscription based game I always saw the leveling of PA's as part of the grind that we all have to put up with, one more way to keep paying customers coming back month after month. Being a full time student and working 30+ hours a week it always seemed to me the "natural" thing to do would be to cut down on that time spent grinding as much as possible so I can enjoy the game running the missions I want. While I've played with those who have suffered negatively from this, being unaware of how to use their capped skills to their full potential, I always saw such players as those who didn't need to be playing this game in the first place. This game is not hard. While experience definitely helps it always seemed more a matter of brains more than anything to me. Are you getting your ass handed to you by a Deljaban that combos you with critical hits, jumping back and forth and spamming megid while all your attacks register zeros due to its ridiculous evasion score? Probably shouldn't use an axe then. Espicially a 32% dark one with level 4 Anga Redda. And don't cry when no one wants to bring you back after your 13th incapacitation. Really. wtf. But I digress.

Short answer: no I don't see anything wrong with buff parties. Lazy people is lazy. What they choose to do with their buffs has nothing to do with you.